BLOCKED_PUNT
Footballguy
if it is then it's a damn good one. You're right though. Isn't he supposed to be a good blocker?
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WR Keenan Allen, LAC (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
He's big. I think he might be. I do not know for certain.
rockaction
Footballguy
What was your take on that? I'm curious. I'm going from equanimity to a little bit of passion in an FFA thread. I hope to read and respond to your thoughts.
Nothing really to deep.
You just got two young WR's who are their teams #1WR's and while both can play outside they are more proven from the slot to point it's hard for me to say, until proven otherwise, that the slot is not their best usage. Both of those teams get older, probably past their time to varying degrees WR's who can also play outside but we absolutely know that's not their best usage.So best use of both may run into overlapping skill sets and how that those teams will work that out. Then finally with both older WR's having a history of fairly high volume on teams I think want to run the ball a lot and the impact that might have on the young WR1's volume.
rockaction
Footballguy
Thanks, meno. Oh my. This is a problem for McConkey owners unless they move him out wide. They're not taking McConkey off the field. That would make zero sense. Chart below for everybody that wants to see it or is curious.
McConkey is a better player right now. He's gotta go out wide. I hope he does. That's the only thing I can rationally conclude that they'll do. Or they put Allen out there, but he's not fast enough. I don't think. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If they reduce McConkey's time, then I think they're a bit on the cutting edge of making no sense/insanity. But that's me. They have their reasons.
Keenan Allen | Slot Percentage |
2013 | 9 |
2014 | 10 |
2015 | 15 |
2016 | 19 |
2017 | 43 |
2018 | 47 |
2019 | 48 |
2020 | 52 |
2021 | 57 |
2022 | 59 |
2023 | 59 |
2024 | 54 |
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Allen was banged up a lot last season. He only missed 2 games, but was fighting various things all season. As a Bears fan myself, I thought his usage was a bigger problem than anything, and was one of a myriad of reasons Shane Waldron didn't last the season. They basically used DJ Moore and Keenan Allen as if they didn't know who was who, with Allen running lots of deeper routes, and Moore getting the quick hitters. It was mind boggling.
If I squint, I can see how its similar to what Seattle is doing, but I don't know, I think McConkey is a much more versatile WR than JSN. I've thought all along (since before he was drafted) that McConkey isn't "just" a slot WR, he can play all 3 spots. My expectation is McConkey plays a lot of X and Z this year, as does Johnston, and Allen stays in the slot. I don't think Harris sees the field unless Johnston takes a step back, or Allen is washed, right now I don't see either as something I'd count on.
I don't know man.
I know we can all say McConky is not just a slot but it's a matter of how effective he is when he's not a slot. Big difference. I think he's one of the top producers in the league last year in both percentage and overall production of the slot. I think that's why they signed Mike Williams and not Keenan. I think they preferred to keep running him mainly out of the slot.
I think most JSN fans would also say the same stuff about him. That's he's not just a slot. I know I've read a lot of positive reviews that he's being lineup up all over in camp and doing quite well. And unlike the Chargers they sought out a slot WR to pair him with. But again I go back to same thing as with Ladd.Yes he's not a slot only, but it's a question of where is he most effective and right now that effective is more proven out of the slot.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
In my mind he’s always been a slow starter. Every year I’ll throw out lowball offfers to the Allen owner
I'm not overly concerned about Ladd being taken off the field as what you said in the bolded. It's true and he's obviously better and I'd imagine he'd be the Z in a lot of 2 WR sets. But when they go with 3 WR's I'm not sure his best usage is outside.
I want to say none of this is what I call a big deal. Not at all. But it's the kind of thing that might make me look at Ladd as more of WR 13-14 then WR11. Small stuff, but a knock both in terms of where he lines up and just simply adding a receiver I think, like in Seattle, I'd put the odds on as most likely candidate to be the #2 volume guy.
rockaction
Footballguy
I like your reasoning but slightly disagree that he will be number two in volume. That’s without knowing both Roman’s and Herbert’s tendencies with slot/outside guys. I do think the McConkey target bonanza some might have been counting on is over. What I think is that when healthy he will see as many or more than last year, but not as much of an increase as people might have thought with QJ and Harris. They really had to sign Allen if they thought he could be at all productive. I’m still not sure he can be, but the stats disagree with me and I’ll defer until I see him run.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Here’s the thing…his last season was actually… pretty good?
In 15 games he went 70/774/7 in an offense that most seem to view as a disaster.
I may have to grab a share in my start up. Headed to the end of the 19th round. If I get a 90/1000/8 season that’s pretty useful. He’d need to stay healthy for that, but his addition has to be detrimental to the other receivers not named Ladd. I’m not that worried about him - but the other dudes who were getting some preseason shine have lost a little luster. Only so many passes to go around in that offense.
This is all off the cuff, but you don’t sign Keenan Allen & pay him ~$9 million to not throw the ball in his direction.
In 15 games he went 70/774/7 in an offense that most seem to view as a disaster.
I may have to grab a share in my start up. Headed to the end of the 19th round. If I get a 90/1000/8 season that’s pretty useful. He’d need to stay healthy for that, but his addition has to be detrimental to the other receivers not named Ladd. I’m not that worried about him - but the other dudes who were getting some preseason shine have lost a little luster. Only so many passes to go around in that offense.
This is all off the cuff, but you don’t sign Keenan Allen & pay him ~$9 million to not throw the ball in his direction.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
I'm thinking Tre Harris isn't coming along fast enough
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
The other note (may or may not be relevant) is that Ladd has missed practice recently with an undisclosed injury. I hope that is not the reason they signed KA (I doubt it is), but something to throw out there.
Tau837
Footballguy
PFF had Allen's slot percentage at 54.2% in 2024. So not quite as high as shown in your table.
Ladd's slot percentage was 69.3%. So there is obvious overlap there. But this also shows that Ladd played 30% of his snaps wide.
IMO both Ladd and Allen can play Z just fine. Probably best if they don't play much at X. So this presumably means that Johnston and Harris will get most of their snaps at X.
I think adding Allen makes the Chargers better on the field. But it likely has negative impact on fantasy values of all of McConkey, Johnston, Harris, and Lambert-Smith to varying degrees.
Tau837
Footballguy
I get that you have to take camp reviews with a grain of salt, but all camp reviews on him have been positive, and a Chargers podcast I listen to asserted that his film in the first preseason game was good. That said, coming from his college offense, I was expecting it might take him a while to adjust, and maybe the coaches have seen signs of that.
rockaction
Footballguy
I used stats and might have had a typo. My apologies. The rest is right. I tried to copy/paste and messed up. It's something I'll change. I think I'm seeing 52.8%, so who knows?
33 years old and no one signed him until August. I was hanging onto him on a few my rosters before final cuts but not really seeing much impact to McConkey other than maybe he doesn't get 150ish targets like some were hoping. Still seemed too optimistic to start with considering he got less than 120 last year. I'd expect KA to take Palmers targets and probably dip into QJ between the 20's (because he sucks at everything but jump balls in the endzone) a bit. Likely sets back growth for Harris to get involved early this year though 
It’s a little uptick to Herbert’s fantasy value. Not that Allen is a game changer anymore but a trusted target helps, sustain drives, etc.
Along with Herbert invoking Josh Allen’s name in reference to rushing more I’m growing fonder of him as a fantasy asset. Still not up to levels of how I viewed him when he was chunking it all day, improving though.
Marauder
Footballguy
The problem is that Johnston has been terrible when they line him up at X. He's been much better at flanker. That's why they signed Mike Williams and drafted Harris. Now, Harris and KLS are really the only legit X receivers IMO.
Tau837
Footballguy
I agree Johnston is better at Z, but most of his snaps last season were at X. Had Mike Williams stayed healthy, I think Williams and Harris would have played most of the X snaps and Johnston would have played mostly Z. But Williams was a natural X and Allen is not.
Tau837
Footballguy
Good point. There are a number of improvements to the Chargers passing game targetsthat will collectively help Herbert:
- WR McConkey 2026 (2nd year) > WR McConkey 2025 (1st year)
- WR Johnston 2026 (3rd year) > WR Johnston 2025 (2nd year)
- WR Allen 2026 > WR Palmer 2025
- WRs Tre Harris, Lambert-Smith 2026 > WRs Chark, Reagor, Fehoko, Davis 2025
- TE Conklin 2026 >> TE Hurst 2025
- TE Gadsden 2026 >= TE Smartt 2025
- RBs Hampton, Harris, Hines 2026 >= RBs Dobbins, Edwards, Vidal 2025
I expect it will still be a relatively low pass attempt offense, but the quality of those attempts should be better with better teammates.
Article(paywall) but I copied the stuff mainly pertinent detailing some of their overlapping slot skill sets. Only thing I'd add is that second paragraph which details Allen's performance as an outside receiver I'm just not sure how relevant it is to this version of Keenan Allen.
www.nytimes.com
McConkey played a vast majority of his snaps in the slot last season. According to TruMedia, he ran 340 routes from the slot and 135 routes from the outside. He was also more productive in the slot, both in terms of total production and efficiency. McConkey averaged .08 expected points added per route on the outside and .14 EPA per route in the slot in 2024, according to TruMedia. He caught 29 passes for 385 yards and two touchdowns on the outside in 2024. He caught 52 passes for 761 yards and five touchdowns from the slot.
TruMedia’s alignment data only goes back to 2019. So Allen’s splits do not cover his entire career. He has played more in the slot in that span, the past six seasons. From 2019 to ’24, Allen ran 1,810 routes from the slot and 1,344 routes on the outside. He caught 287 passes for 3,020 yards and 20 touchdowns from the slot. He caught 261 passes for 3,008 yards and 18 touchdowns on the outside. From an efficiency standpoint, Allen averaged .06 EPA per route from the slot and .08 EPA per route from the outside.
McConkey and Allen now become interchangeable pieces. At the same time, there is a reason the Chargers focused primarily on outside receiver as they added in the offseason, from Williams to Harris to Lambert-Smith. It seemed like a concerted effort to create complementary pieces around what McConkey brings in the slot.
Will the Chargers be getting the absolute most out of both McConkey and Allen if only one of the two can play in the slot in three-receiver packages? That is to be determined. Both players have certainly shown the ability to produce on the outside. Both players have also spent the majority of their time in the slot.
Keenan Allen is back: Why Chargers signed him now, and how he fits into WR room
EL SEGUNDO, Calif. — Los Angeles Chargers undrafted rookie quarterback DJ Uiagalelei had been wearing No. 13 through the first three weeks of training camp, including in the Hall of Fame Game last week. It never quite felt right. Of course, that number had belonged to receiver Keenan Allen for...
www.nytimes.com
McConkey played a vast majority of his snaps in the slot last season. According to TruMedia, he ran 340 routes from the slot and 135 routes from the outside. He was also more productive in the slot, both in terms of total production and efficiency. McConkey averaged .08 expected points added per route on the outside and .14 EPA per route in the slot in 2024, according to TruMedia. He caught 29 passes for 385 yards and two touchdowns on the outside in 2024. He caught 52 passes for 761 yards and five touchdowns from the slot.
TruMedia’s alignment data only goes back to 2019. So Allen’s splits do not cover his entire career. He has played more in the slot in that span, the past six seasons. From 2019 to ’24, Allen ran 1,810 routes from the slot and 1,344 routes on the outside. He caught 287 passes for 3,020 yards and 20 touchdowns from the slot. He caught 261 passes for 3,008 yards and 18 touchdowns on the outside. From an efficiency standpoint, Allen averaged .06 EPA per route from the slot and .08 EPA per route from the outside.
McConkey and Allen now become interchangeable pieces. At the same time, there is a reason the Chargers focused primarily on outside receiver as they added in the offseason, from Williams to Harris to Lambert-Smith. It seemed like a concerted effort to create complementary pieces around what McConkey brings in the slot.
Will the Chargers be getting the absolute most out of both McConkey and Allen if only one of the two can play in the slot in three-receiver packages? That is to be determined. Both players have certainly shown the ability to produce on the outside. Both players have also spent the majority of their time in the slot.
rockaction
Footballguy
Thanks for posting that, meno. I got paywalled this morning.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, this is what I thought upthread. I wonder what they thought they had in Lambert-Smith and Harris. Eh, whatever. That's my fantasy curiosity talking. The Chargers are in a win-now league and you don't get many cracks at it unless you're a rarity like the Chiefs.
eta* and, not because—that sentence made no sense with "because" in it
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
People that have to start him every week will complain when he posts 80/800/5TD which would be good value for where he's drafted
But that works out to about 5/50 per week, that's not gonna win you a lot of games.
But that works out to about 5/50 per week, that's not gonna win you a lot of games.
Tau837
Footballguy
No one should have drafted him to start week 1 unless they did so knowingly to stack up every other position.
My WR3 in a 12 team PPR league. Not super excited about it, but the floor should be respectable. I have Burden as an alternative but he's much more of a wait-and-see for me because I don't know that the snaps/targets will be there in the first quarter of the season, let alone week 1. Hope I'm wrong about that.
Largent
Footballguy
to be fair, that was Aug 8th and he was just signed. Nothing in camp feedback suggests he's lost any step.
It doesn't matter if he has lost a step, the guy gets open and Herbert will pepper him when needed.
The Frankman
Footballguy
On second thought, I’m pretty excited about it.
Largent
Footballguy
Lansdowne Victoria?
Lansdowne
Footballguy
Lansdowne Street, Boston (site of Fenway Park)!
this might be the best group of WR Herbert has had to work with since hes come into the NFL. if Keenan Allen stays healthy it could be a real nice year for Herbert. (Allen too)
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Always been a Allen fan. Led the team in targets. Herbert is good. My only thought is they really had to throw to win and 34 passing attempts won't be the norm.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
fortunately they wont have to deal with Spags' and the Chiefs run D every week.
BespokeJort
Footballguy
Haven’t seen data but it sure seemed like he was out there all game and it was more the other guys (qj/harris/KLS) rotating in and out
Edit: possible my perception is off, sleeper says 62% snap count vs 85 for Ladd and 82 for qj
Interestingly 22% for KLS vs 8% for tre harris
Edit: possible my perception is off, sleeper says 62% snap count vs 85 for Ladd and 82 for qj
Interestingly 22% for KLS vs 8% for tre harris
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
NFL Week 1 Game Recap: Immediate fantasy football takeaways from Friday's game
PFF's fantasy football recap focuses on player usage and stats, breaking down all the vital information you need to achieve fantasy success in 2025.
www.pff.com
Allen was on the field a little less than QJ and Ladd but he had the most targets with 10 or at least as many as the other 2 WRs
Q J was used early and it seemed that Allen got stronger as the game went on
He's still got it from what we saw last night.
Terrific 3-4 WRs for Herbert to use anytime he feels like it
I was totally impressed with the Chargers and I think I misjudged Jim Harbaugh's ability to use Herbert and maximize his skillset
