The Future Champs
Footballguy
He has a lot to learn, and needs a lot of work. It was also his third pro game. Finally, Hoyer looked his way repeatedly.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
WR Kevin White, NO (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Gruden does at least as much tape study now as he did as a workaholic HC, I wouldn't really agree with this statement. The dude wakes up at like 3 or 4 am every day just like he did as a coach. He breaks down and gameplans both teams for each week's games and watches tons of historical tape from around the league as well. Its like an obsession. And then in the offseason he goes just as hard for his fired NFL coaches association, holding classes for coaches with and without jobs. His knowledge of the game is ridiculous, obviously he drools over guys during the broadcast and is generally complimentary, but I wouldn't write off anything he says just because he's a "talking head", he's a different breed.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Targeted a lot. Half of them weren't catchable and were way out of bounds. Had a bad drop on a perfectly thrown deep ball (not an easy catch but one he should have made) and on the other side had an awesome one handed grab in tight coverage.
The biggest takeaway to me though was that he just never really seemed to be open. Most of his targets were in traffic. Not much separate especially for a guy with his measurables.
The biggest takeaway to me though was that he just never really seemed to be open. Most of his targets were in traffic. Not much separate especially for a guy with his measurables.
Last edited by a moderator:
flapgreen
Footballguy
flapgreen
Footballguy
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
For some things he says, I'm sure. Especially the criticisms, he generally keeps it positive. But why you would post to ignore what Gruden has to say when he said that White looked slow in practice...I have no idea. That's not something that would be "influenced" by being on TV, its an observation from a guy who knows what he's looking at and is a football encyclopedia. That's all I'm saying. It comes across as straight denial when you say that. But then you followed it up by admitting he looked slow a few posts later, so maybe you were just making a general point.
This isn't a hill I want to die on or anything, but Gruden gets way too much hate for a guy who does as much work as he does to stay on top of the game. Its not his fault he has to dumb it down for national audiences once a week and make it relatable with goofy anecdotes. When he actually has something to say about individual players or schemes, its worth listening to.
saintfool
Dead sexy
He needs to learn how to run more than one single route. Every throw to him was the same downfield one. He's so easily defended that way.
TheBottomLine
Footballguy
Let's see how much he develops in what is his rookie year. I think too much was expected out of him right out of the gate. He will get there.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
There is potential but he looks slow. Maybe he is yet to recover from missing so much time last year?
saintfool
Dead sexy
Some of it is the glowing reports from training camp both this year and last. Personally, I think he's still very talented and capable. Most "rookies" look raw after all.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I disagree with your observation because from what I saw White was running several different types of routes and most of them were not bombs.
I thought White showed some improvements with his route running. On one particular play I saw he gives a pretty good fake to the inside before turning to the out route. This was set up by him running some drag routes across the middle previous to this.
He still looks a bit choppy with his steps at times, but I thought he looked more under control and smoother in his strides than what I had observed about him before in preseason.
Not that he doesn't have a lot to learn and develop as far as running routes go, but I saw some improvement as far as that goes in the game last night.
flapgreen
Footballguy
They're not avoiding White and he's nowhere near the receiver Alshon is at this point. No reason to feed him for the hell of it
Well played. This trade could look even by next year if White improves and they let Alshon walk, but Diggs already looks legit, so I definitely side with the "bird in the hand" approach here.
flapgreen
Footballguy
There's no math. Alshon is their best wr. The team isn't going to just force feed White because he's young and the team isn't going anywhere. They're not going to quit trying to win. Maybe White will continue to progress. I hope he does. Your point of view doesn't fit into the team still trying to win games, though. I hope they don't just give up on the season already. They're not paying Alshon 15 mil to try to push him out the door. White hasn't done #### yet to show he's anywhere near the wr Alshon is.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Still hoping this turns out but it's not looking good. Cutler. OL worse than ever. Loggains is a clueless fool
thehoch
Footballguy
Louis Riddick
Has to finish that 9 route, but Kevin White showing signs. KEEP using him
I think Louis Riddick knows a thing or two about football. Just sayin'
Last edited by a moderator:
Interseptopus
Footballguy
His owner in my league released him finally. I was targeting him in the draft (took Diggs instead, lucky me).
The Bears are so bad they will be behind in a lot of games, but even so I'm not sure that offense can support 2 top 20 WRs. Just not going to happen unless they trade for an entire new OL and Cutler turns into Peyton Manning. I could see White being a decent bye week fill in, but to call him a "stud" is basically saying he will be a WR2 at worst. I just don't see it.
White is a WR4 with flex upside ROS. Next year when the Bears draft a top QB round 1 and can sign some OL... they will be very young and White will have his coming out party. Not going to happen this year.
The Bears are so bad they will be behind in a lot of games, but even so I'm not sure that offense can support 2 top 20 WRs. Just not going to happen unless they trade for an entire new OL and Cutler turns into Peyton Manning. I could see White being a decent bye week fill in, but to call him a "stud" is basically saying he will be a WR2 at worst. I just don't see it.
White is a WR4 with flex upside ROS. Next year when the Bears draft a top QB round 1 and can sign some OL... they will be very young and White will have his coming out party. Not going to happen this year.
From a 2017 perspective, I'd rather have Cutler than a rookie. Wentz has coulded some judgment. Rookies tend to struggle more often than not. Cutler can feed a WR1. If White looks improved by the end of the year and they let Alshon walk, I think Cutler to White could be a nice combo in 2017.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I would agree but I really don't think they keep Cutler. Maybe to sign a 1 year deal but I'm pretty sure Cutler has had enough of Chicago as much as Chicago has had enough of him. As a Packer fan I really hope they keep him. He loves throwing to the green and gold...
I would see a more realistic chance of them signing a FA QB for 2-3 years letting their rookie develop. But I'm not exactly sure who would fit that bill
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
They don't need to sign Cutler at all since he's under contract until 2020. They either keep him, trade him, release him or he retires. If they no longer want him I really hope they can trade him and at least get a couple draft picks.
Now I'm really confused. Ok, so I looked it up and it appears that $54M of his contract was guaranteed although there was no roster bonus. I'm assuming that $54M was the first 3 years of the contract, so I guess they could cut him next year with zero salary cap hit. Or they could keep him for $15M which is not that expensive these days. I guess that gives them the flexibility to take a QB if one falls to them or wait a year. No need to sell the farm to move up.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
It's not he has like 5 years remaining. It's pretty team friendly to get out of IIRC, minimal dead money after this year.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Now you're on the right track. His contract was front loaded and is very team friendly right now. They can move on from him if they want with no penalty really. Makes me laugh at all the people who were outraged by his contract extension a few years ago.
I wasn't being snarky. I had not looked it up and assumed he meant that the contract was done after this year. When I did look it up, it appears to confirm what you just said - looks team friendly.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I was aware he was under contract, but there was talk already before this season, if I remember correctly, that they were shopping him or even considering cutting him since he didn't have much dead money left.
I still don't know if I see them keeping him around... I feel like when they finish 31st or 32nd they will just want to blow up the roster and start fresh. If they get a good QB in the draft, they aren't winning with Cutler so you might as well move on
I still don't know if I see them keeping him around... I feel like when they finish 31st or 32nd they will just want to blow up the roster and start fresh. If they get a good QB in the draft, they aren't winning with Cutler so you might as well move on
Last edited by a moderator:
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Wouldn't surprise me if they move on from him but it doesn't really hurt keeping him either. They have plenty of cap room.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
2017: $16M cap, $2M dead to cut him
2018: $17M cap, $0 dead
2019: $20M cap, $0 dead
2020: $21.7M cap, $0 dead
The cap numbers aren't exotic for a QB. Classic "mediocre QB" syndrome - you can pay $4M and hope to catch a 2015 Fitzpatrick (but risk a 2014 Schaub) or you can pay $16M and get Cutler/Kaepernick.
2018: $17M cap, $0 dead
2019: $20M cap, $0 dead
2020: $21.7M cap, $0 dead
The cap numbers aren't exotic for a QB. Classic "mediocre QB" syndrome - you can pay $4M and hope to catch a 2015 Fitzpatrick (but risk a 2014 Schaub) or you can pay $16M and get Cutler/Kaepernick.
Didn't take it that way at all, I was just putting out info.
But you said "sign to a 1 year deal" thus the responses.
flapgreen
Footballguy
The talk of signing him to a 1 year deal is what made me think you were saying his contract is over. It really doesn't make sense bc they'd have to cut him and lose $2M and then sign him to a 1 year deal which would probably be at least as much as Fitzpatrick's deal ($12M). They will either hang onto him at his current cost or cut him. I can't imagine any scenario where a 1 year deal happens.
Considering Brock is costing the Texans $18M/year, keeping Jay around for $16M while they groom a rookie QB or wait for a 2018 rookie does not sound like a bad plan.
http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Yep I misspoke. I said sign to a 1 year deal assuming he was a FA but when I suggested they sign a FA in the offseason, when I looked at the offseason availabilities at QB I did not see him and then realized he had signed that long extension that we celebrated in cheese land. Never changed it. My bad
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Very possible but I still think Fox gets one more year. Cutler is a toss up. As far as we know he may just retire, I wouldn't blame him.
I'm not so sure Loggains should stay as the OC until the end of the year. He's so bad.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I hated that they threw it that much but they had to against the Cowboys. When you go down 17-0 before you even get your first 1st down you need to play catch up really fast. Passing not only allows you to gain major chunks or yards but it allows stops the clock more giving you more time to have more opportunities. If the Bears keep passing that much it means they are behind early in every game, which is possible.
To be fair, Hoyer did better last year (90+ QBR, IIRC) than I expected. He's actually a decent QB... by that I mean he's a really good backup or a below average (but not bottom of the barrel) starter. I expect he'll be better after a week of practice as the #1 if Cutler is out again this week.flapgreen said:
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
