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WR Kyle Williams, NE (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Faust
MVP
Faust
MVP
The 33rd Team
"Kyle Williams is probably the best separator in the entire draft class, even accounting for the Day 2 guys."
@StevePalazzolo_ and @SamMonsonNFL chat with @mikerenner_ about his top Day 2 receiver
Faust
MVP
Player Profiler
Washington State WR Kyle Williams recorded the fastest speed amongst the National Team offense at the Senior Bowl at 21.36 mph!
NFL Draft Files
Washington State WR Kyle Williams vs man coverage:
505 receiving yards
x.com
x.com
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Simms ranking him that high is either for clicks and/or should make him flat out an avoid.
Simms 2022 WR ranks
1. Jameson Williams
2. Christian Watson
3. Alec Pierce
4. Treylon Burks
Finally at 5. Drake London
Unmentioned: Wilson, Pickens, Olave...
For this year he also left Burden out of his top 5, and doesn't even have Egbuka in his "honorable mentions" (which would put him as 10th rookie WR at best for him). He's a clown who through wild luck "predicted" one or two underrated QBs over the past decade with these random dart throws and now gets to see his name trend on Twitter for a month or two each year during the lead up to the draft.
Simms 2022 WR ranks
1. Jameson Williams
2. Christian Watson
3. Alec Pierce
4. Treylon Burks
Finally at 5. Drake London
Unmentioned: Wilson, Pickens, Olave...
For this year he also left Burden out of his top 5, and doesn't even have Egbuka in his "honorable mentions" (which would put him as 10th rookie WR at best for him). He's a clown who through wild luck "predicted" one or two underrated QBs over the past decade with these random dart throws and now gets to see his name trend on Twitter for a month or two each year during the lead up to the draft.
Faust
MVP
The Draft Room
Washington State WR Kyle Williams might be the most underrated player in this draft
Dynamic play speed
: Here’s 2 minutes of sick highlights from this past season
Faust
MVP
The Draft Room
Washington State WR Kyle Williams might be the most underrated player in this draft
MAC_32
Footballguy
Can someone help me understand the appeal with this guy?
He's got big time speed (4.40) combined with excellent release packages (which I think is where the Diggs comps come from, though I think that's too optimistic) for a small-ish (5-11 190) WR. He's really good both vertically and after the catch and was maybe the only guy who gave Travis Hunter fits.
He's probably not a top WR you build a passing game around, but he can be a strong #2 WR, who can play X, Z, or slot. Of note, he also played with Cam Ward before Ward went to Miami, and a lot of people think the Titans could look to re-unite them.
MAC_32
Footballguy
This is actually the reason I don't understand his appeal .He was paired with the #1 pick in his 4th college season and only net 61-842-6.
That's reasonable. I thought Williams took a big step forward this season. He went from being an ancillary target to the clear #1 this year, after Josh Kelly transferred to Texas Tech and Lincoln Victor (who was the focal point of the pass game in 2023 for some reason) graduated.
Williams had 70-1198-14 this season, but I can't totally explain why he wasn't more productive with Ward other than more target competition and Williams playing better in 2024. Maybe its just that simple.
I like, but don't love, Williams. I think he could be pretty boom/bust.
Faust
MVP
@HoggNFL
Daniel Jeremiah on a WR outside the top-75 consensus that he likes
Kyle Williams
“His tape is really, really good. —If you were just gonna grade releases at the Senior Bowl, he was the best guy there”
(
pinkstapler
Footballguy
He was ranked too low a month ago, so he started getting tagged as a sleeper to target in rookie drafts in the third round based on analytics and measurables. Now the pendulum has swung too far IMO and he's getting ranked around guys like Noel/Harris/Royals/Bech which IMO is too high. At the very least, he should be no longer be touted as a value/sleeper with the rise in ADP.
I think Williams has a higher ceiling than any of those guys, though I will say Bech and maybe Royals (if he goes to a team willing to manufacture touches) have higher floors. I'd probably rank Williams in group with Bech and Higgins.
Dynasty-wise, I'd probably have Kyle Williams around pick #15 or so.
MAC_32
Footballguy
But is his likelihood of hitting his ceiling meaningfully different than guys like Ayomanor or Thornton?
I don't do formal rankings, but my 2nd priority is RB hunting in this range. Looking for a day 2 WR that slips is a ~10 picks later thing, whoever it is. I say 2nd priority because my 1st priority is to trade out of it, which I already have. I want top 12-14 picks (I play IDP) then nothing else until the 20's.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
I have both Bech and Noel a full tier above Williams. I actually teeter back and forth between moving Bech into a tier of his own under only Egbuka/Burden/Tet. So you are definitely much higher than me on Williams. I have major qualms about him taking until his 5th season in college to break out. And I'm probably the reverse of you on projection as well. I think he could have a decent floor, but I think his ceiling is capped due to him being too small, a poor route runner, and a lack of long speed to even fit the role of a clear out guy. Seems to project as manufactured touch slot but even that's tough to see as he barely played there in college. His best traits seem to be with the ball in his hand; but unless a team is investing highly in him and unless they are pretty much devoid of talent, why are they going to prioritize that? He'd basically need a Deebo type role, but doesn't have Deebo size or skills. I smell another Elijah Moore tbh, unless a creative OC falls in love and really builds plays for him.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Snap Alignment:
Williams is undersized, but his game hints at big-time potential. His release package, quick feet, and ability to build speed as routes progress give him a starting-caliber ceiling with, in theory, the versatility to line up at any of the three receiver spots.
- Outside 1070
- Slot 202
Williams is undersized, but his game hints at big-time potential. His release package, quick feet, and ability to build speed as routes progress give him a starting-caliber ceiling with, in theory, the versatility to line up at any of the three receiver spots.
What do you see in highlights? Do you think slot?
I don't think Thornton is anything. Ayomanor is tougher. I think he's got a nice floor, but little ceiling. I prefer Williams to him, but I can see the opposite case.
MAC_32
Footballguy
TeSlaa is another one I wonder about.
socrates
Footballguy
FWIW, I have Kyle Williams a tier below Noel and Bech (Dynasty PPR). Obviously, draft destinations will factor heavily in final rankings. Currently, I have Williams in the same tier as some of my other favorites, Tory Horton and Tai Felton. I had hoped to get Williams sneaky late, but any hope of that is now gone.
Tier 3: Higgins, Noel, Harris, Ayomanor, Royals and Bech
Tier 4: Horton, Felton, Williams and Bond
This is not an especially deep WR class, but the top 15 are really solid, and with the incredible depth at RB, some of these mid-tier WRs could become value picks in Dynasty Drafts. Sadly, I may miss out on Williams with the way his stock has risen late.
Tier 3: Higgins, Noel, Harris, Ayomanor, Royals and Bech
Tier 4: Horton, Felton, Williams and Bond
This is not an especially deep WR class, but the top 15 are really solid, and with the incredible depth at RB, some of these mid-tier WRs could become value picks in Dynasty Drafts. Sadly, I may miss out on Williams with the way his stock has risen late.
Faust
MVP
Steve Smith Sr. loves the Patriots selection of Kyle Williams:
Kyle Williams to the PATRIOTS! Is he the NEXT Steve Smith?!
Kyle Williams to the PATRIOTS! Is he the NEXT Steve Smith?!
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Definitely targeting him w my 2.03 pick (10 team)... Hoping he'll be there
pinkstapler
Footballguy
I wouldn't worry about that. I can't see many scenarios where Williams is going in the top 12 of incoming rookies, regardless of how much people like him. Especially not in any SF or TEP leagues. I'm sure it will be moving up in the next week or so, and probably quite a bit; but he's currently consensus 38 among rookies on KTC. I'd guess he lands comfortably in the mid second of standard league rookie drafts somewhere around pick 18 overall.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
my league is deadly tho... all guys that went to high school together, 20+yrs later, in the same league. everyone wants to crap on everyone.
i love it and also hate it, because guys go in crazy spots
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Those are probably the most fun, yet frustrating, drafts to participate in. Consensus ADP certainly goes out the window entirely. I bet you have a similar thing, but there are also two league mates I have in one of these leagues who seem to key in on the SAME EXACT guys I do year in and out. We now are battling to trade ahead of one another's picks to snipe/not get sniped on an annual basis haha. One of them moved ahead of my pick last minute to take a falling Puka in 23 and the room erupted not when he made the pick, but instead when everyone heard the Sleeper app noise of him being removed from my queue right after. I doubt he'll ever let me live that one down.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
In redraft leagues, I probably wouldn't expect much out of Williams as a rookie. McDaniels offense is said to be very complicated . . . and even veterans often struggle to pick it up. Here's how rookie WRs have fared with JMD as an OC or HC.
2006 - Chad Jackson, NE - Pick 59 (13-152-3) (WR 103 in PPR leagues)
2010 - Demaryius Thomas, DEN - Pick 22 (22-283-2) (WR 95)
2010 - Eric Decker, DEN - Pick 87 (6-106-1) (WR 136)
2011 - Austin Pettis, STL - Pick 78 (27-256-0) (WR 111)
2011 - Greg Salas, STL - Pick 112 (27-264-0) (WR 104)
2013 - Aaron Dobson, NE - Pick 59 (37-519-4) (WR 61)
2013 - Josh Boyce, NE - Pick 102 (9-121-0) (WR 134)
2016 - Malcolm Mitchell, NE - Pick 112 (32-104-4) (WR 79)
2019 - N'Keal Harry, NE - Pick 32 (12-105-2) (WR 124)
2019 - Jakobi Meyers, NE - UDFA (26-359-0) (WR 97)
2023 - Tre Tucker, LV - Pick 100 (19-331-2) (WR 87)
That's 11 players that were mostly afterthoughts in fantasy leagues as rookies. Who knows if that pattern will continue with Williams, who was the 69th pick in the draft and 9th WR off the board.
2006 - Chad Jackson, NE - Pick 59 (13-152-3) (WR 103 in PPR leagues)
2010 - Demaryius Thomas, DEN - Pick 22 (22-283-2) (WR 95)
2010 - Eric Decker, DEN - Pick 87 (6-106-1) (WR 136)
2011 - Austin Pettis, STL - Pick 78 (27-256-0) (WR 111)
2011 - Greg Salas, STL - Pick 112 (27-264-0) (WR 104)
2013 - Aaron Dobson, NE - Pick 59 (37-519-4) (WR 61)
2013 - Josh Boyce, NE - Pick 102 (9-121-0) (WR 134)
2016 - Malcolm Mitchell, NE - Pick 112 (32-104-4) (WR 79)
2019 - N'Keal Harry, NE - Pick 32 (12-105-2) (WR 124)
2019 - Jakobi Meyers, NE - UDFA (26-359-0) (WR 97)
2023 - Tre Tucker, LV - Pick 100 (19-331-2) (WR 87)
That's 11 players that were mostly afterthoughts in fantasy leagues as rookies. Who knows if that pattern will continue with Williams, who was the 69th pick in the draft and 9th WR off the board.
Boston
Footballguy
On the flip side I don’t expect McDaniels offense this year to be the complicated one it was with Brady…I think we saw that as he really changed it with Newton and Jones to fit their skill sets…not exactly sure what it will be with Maye but I feel very confident he won’t ask a second year QB to do what a veteran Tom Brady was doing.
socrates
Footballguy
Excellent points. To be fair, however, only Thomas, Decker and Meyers went on to any significance. Meyers was an Undrafted Free Agent signing (and still was a top 3 wideout for the Pats his rookie season), and Decker had foot surgery his rookie season, IIRC. That leaves us with Demaryius Thomas. Thomas started with a bang, hauling in 8 receptions for 97 yards and a TD in his debut before suffering through a plague of injuries that left him sidelined for a big chunk of his rookie year.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
I am not suggesting that what NE and JMD will do this year will or will not work. We all know how things worked out with McDaniels and Brady (and the NE WRs) . . . and 2nd year Maye is not prime Brady (that's not a shot at Maye). McDaniels has worked with more QBs than you think besides Brady. Those guys included Cassel, Hoyer, Orton, Simms, Tebow, Bradford, Feeley, Clemens, Garoppolo, Brissett, Stidham, Newton, Jones, Carr, and O'Connell. That's 15 guys not named Brady. Those results were pretty uninspiring. You highlighted the one season where things worked out (with Jones). There were many others when things did not go as well.
The non-Patriots WRs that had success with McDaniels were Brandon Marshall, Brandon Lloyd, and Davantae Adams . . . guys that were already established, experienced receivers. We don't know what this version of the NE offense will look like, but the feeling I get based off of Vrabel's comments about wanting to build a strong backfield is they will again be a team focused on defense and running the football. That's a guess. They may open things up in future seasons as they continue to upgrade the roster, but I don't see them suddenly going from a Bottom 3 passing attack to having a successful passing attack this year. That would surprise me.
socrates
Footballguy
Those QBs are mostly uninspiring, as well. However, you make some great points.
This is a great point. The Pats' offense should be improved (the prior coaching staff was just gawd awful), but early expectations need to be tempered. The question becomes can Kyle Williams lock down a WR1 role this season that can be sustained for the future, or do the Pats bring someone else in next season. Williams has a grand opportunity, but you will now have to draft him closer to his ceiling than his floor. He will be drafted in the early second round in many dynasty drafts.
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Boston
Footballguy
I don’t disagree with the last paragraph…I would be very disappointed if it is not a big upgrade over last year’s disaster (it better be) but Maye is still in his second year and I think they are another off-season from having the personnel to really get after it…all signs this year point to having a quality D that keeps things close and an O that plays smart in tandem with the D but will hopefully have the ability to put up some points when needed in the 4th quarter…I think that will be the recipe for success this year and this time next year we could be looking at a big jump to a much more aggressive O…not saying it will be as dramatic but kind of how Brady was playing a lot of complimentary football early in his career then took the reigns and put up some big numbers.
