WR Marvin Harrison Jr., ARZ (1 Viewer)

[osubuckeyeman]

I kind of like him. No need to go into all the reasons why because you already know but I will mention he has been doubled and tripled at points in games teams doing anything to stop him and he still produced big-time numbers. I'm starting my tape work soon so it's hard to compare him to the rest of the class and be fair about what I see and state what I think he is or who he compares to. I have had the privilege to see him multiple times in person and he will be hard to cover in the NFL the way college teams have tried to cover him. You can not dedicate 3 defenders to one player in the NFL the other receivers will eat you up. Go put on the semi-final game against Georgia and watch Marvin work. They had no answer for him except the shot he took at the back of the end zone. He played big in the biggest games.

My only issue is he gets a little dinged during games. I know because each time my heart would sink a little. That happened a lot. He is sneaky fast during his routes and seems to just find the open spaces mid-routes. I traded for what I thought would be the number one pick in my dynasty league and was lucky enough to see it become the #1 one pick. I never decided on a player without doing my review of the tape and due diligence on all of the players I consider worthy of the pick but it would be really hard in 1 QB formats to see him not end up being the #1 and that probably means no matter his landing spot. Superflex is most likely at the moment #2.

 

[Da Franchise]

I’m starting to wonder if he’s a little overrated. I watch the tape and it’s nothing but polish all day long. Great route runner, technician, everything you want from that aspect. You know what I don’t see? I don’t see Jefferson in his routes, Lamb after the catch, or Chase in attack. I’m not seeing the make you miss jukes, or deadleg route fakes that result in ankle soup. I’m not seeing the Gumby hip moves or YAC to the end zone.

These are first world problems obviously, but if he’s going to be valued as a 1st round startup pick, I’d really like to see more than what I have so far. He’s super safe. He’s going to be a pro bowler many years but he’s being valued as an all-pro and I’m not quite seeing it.

Also, where’s he going to end up? Arizona? I’d be hoping someone trades up because Zona seems like the perfect fit for inducing the pro-bowl-not-all-pro outcomes I just described. If he’s a Charger, ok now we’re cooking. Patriots? Big yikes that’s gonna end up underwhelming.

Guess what I’m saying is while I really like the player right now, think his market is overstated a bit and not quite seeing the same ceiling. I comped him to Julio awhile back and sort of regret it. He doesn’t have that kind of freak artistry. Actually, I’m not seeing much of anything that’s freaky. I’m seeing a lot of really really good borderline great. Nothing wrong with that. But for the associated hype? Sorry but I expect to see a little more.

Hopefully there’s enough “he’s really good”baseline in this post to avoid getting flamed too hard.

I mostly agree that he's not a great RAC guy, but I think his jump ball ability is phenomenal, right there with anyone in the NFL.

I think Arizona would be a solid landing spot. Kyler Murray has been a part of top-5ish numbers for DeAndre Hopkins and a half season of Hollywood Brown.

Personally, I think Harrison is the best WR prospect in a VERY long time. I do wonder if he's been a victim of overthinking because he's been the consensus top non-QB in this draft since late 2022. He looks like AJ Green with more deep speed to me, and my personal opinion is that he should probably be the #2 pick in the NFL draft, but QB desperation is a hell of a thing. Personally, I'd much rather trade a 2 for Fields and take Harrison if I were Was/NE.

How long? You have to go all the way back to 2021 to find Ja’marr Chase.

 

[travdogg]

I’m starting to wonder if he’s a little overrated. I watch the tape and it’s nothing but polish all day long. Great route runner, technician, everything you want from that aspect. You know what I don’t see? I don’t see Jefferson in his routes, Lamb after the catch, or Chase in attack. I’m not seeing the make you miss jukes, or deadleg route fakes that result in ankle soup. I’m not seeing the Gumby hip moves or YAC to the end zone.

These are first world problems obviously, but if he’s going to be valued as a 1st round startup pick, I’d really like to see more than what I have so far. He’s super safe. He’s going to be a pro bowler many years but he’s being valued as an all-pro and I’m not quite seeing it.

Also, where’s he going to end up? Arizona? I’d be hoping someone trades up because Zona seems like the perfect fit for inducing the pro-bowl-not-all-pro outcomes I just described. If he’s a Charger, ok now we’re cooking. Patriots? Big yikes that’s gonna end up underwhelming.

Guess what I’m saying is while I really like the player right now, think his market is overstated a bit and not quite seeing the same ceiling. I comped him to Julio awhile back and sort of regret it. He doesn’t have that kind of freak artistry. Actually, I’m not seeing much of anything that’s freaky. I’m seeing a lot of really really good borderline great. Nothing wrong with that. But for the associated hype? Sorry but I expect to see a little more.

Hopefully there’s enough “he’s really good”baseline in this post to avoid getting flamed too hard.

I mostly agree that he's not a great RAC guy, but I think his jump ball ability is phenomenal, right there with anyone in the NFL.

I think Arizona would be a solid landing spot. Kyler Murray has been a part of top-5ish numbers for DeAndre Hopkins and a half season of Hollywood Brown.

Personally, I think Harrison is the best WR prospect in a VERY long time. I do wonder if he's been a victim of overthinking because he's been the consensus top non-QB in this draft since late 2022. He looks like AJ Green with more deep speed to me, and my personal opinion is that he should probably be the #2 pick in the NFL draft, but QB desperation is a hell of a thing. Personally, I'd much rather trade a 2 for Fields and take Harrison if I were Was/NE.

How long? You have to go all the way back to 2021 to find Ja’marr Chase.

I think Harrison is a better prospect than Chase was. I think I go all the way back to Calvin in 2007.

 

[menobrown]

I’m starting to wonder if he’s a little overrated. I watch the tape and it’s nothing but polish all day long. Great route runner, technician, everything you want from that aspect. You know what I don’t see? I don’t see Jefferson in his routes, Lamb after the catch, or Chase in attack. I’m not seeing the make you miss jukes, or deadleg route fakes that result in ankle soup. I’m not seeing the Gumby hip moves or YAC to the end zone.

These are first world problems obviously, but if he’s going to be valued as a 1st round startup pick, I’d really like to see more than what I have so far. He’s super safe. He’s going to be a pro bowler many years but he’s being valued as an all-pro and I’m not quite seeing it.

Also, where’s he going to end up? Arizona? I’d be hoping someone trades up because Zona seems like the perfect fit for inducing the pro-bowl-not-all-pro outcomes I just described. If he’s a Charger, ok now we’re cooking. Patriots? Big yikes that’s gonna end up underwhelming.

Guess what I’m saying is while I really like the player right now, think his market is overstated a bit and not quite seeing the same ceiling. I comped him to Julio awhile back and sort of regret it. He doesn’t have that kind of freak artistry. Actually, I’m not seeing much of anything that’s freaky. I’m seeing a lot of really really good borderline great. Nothing wrong with that. But for the associated hype? Sorry but I expect to see a little more.

Hopefully there’s enough “he’s really good”baseline in this post to avoid getting flamed too hard.

I mostly agree that he's not a great RAC guy, but I think his jump ball ability is phenomenal, right there with anyone in the NFL.

I think Arizona would be a solid landing spot. Kyler Murray has been a part of top-5ish numbers for DeAndre Hopkins and a half season of Hollywood Brown.

Personally, I think Harrison is the best WR prospect in a VERY long time. I do wonder if he's been a victim of overthinking because he's been the consensus top non-QB in this draft since late 2022. He looks like AJ Green with more deep speed to me, and my personal opinion is that he should probably be the #2 pick in the NFL draft, but QB desperation is a hell of a thing. Personally, I'd much rather trade a 2 for Fields and take Harrison if I were Was/NE.

How long? You have to go all the way back to 2021 to find Ja’marr Chase.

I think Harrison is a better prospect than Chase was. I think I go all the way back to Calvin in 2007.

Calvin had been in the league a few years before I did my first dynasty league, which was 2010. Since that time the last incoming rookie WR to come close for me with being held in this high of a regard was Amari Cooper. That's just being honest about it and not trying to be revisionist history(not saying others are), Amari just checked a whole lot of boxes for me. Obviously hoping for more with Marvin but part of the appeal of Amari was the high floor and that part worked out.

I did not have Chase quite as high but he would have rated right behind Cooper in the last 10 years.

I kind of think you are both right in that the things Da Franchise is saying has a lot of merit but I also think that some over thinking may be going on here. I tried to analyze if we were paying for his name and it's hard to think that's not a factor but his combo of size, speed, production and overall pedigree is very hard to beat and he's the first WR for me whose combo of high floor and ceiling starts to push past Amari with respect to how I viewed them pre-draft.

 

[Soulfly3]

I definitely has Chase "ranked" ahead of MHJ in terms of how much I loved a WR. I think the only other ones I can really think of off the bat would be Cooper (as mentioned) and Mike Evans. The more I thought about how much I loved Lamb, I can't say I would've thought of him above what I think of MHJ (or Nabers) now...

I absolutely LOVED Evans and was on here advocating him ahead of Watkins, who at the time was the consensus #1, no questions asked, like MHJ is.

That being said, I think I like MHJ's overall skill set more than I liked Evans... But I love Odunze more than most precisely because of Evans. They make the exact same types of over the shoulder catches down the sideline that just cant be taught

 

[King of the Jungle]

I definitely has Chase "ranked" ahead of MHJ in terms of how much I loved a WR. I think the only other ones I can really think of off the bat would be Cooper (as mentioned) and Mike Evans. The more I thought about how much I loved Lamb, I can't say I would've thought of him above what I think of MHJ (or Nabers) now...

I absolutely LOVED Evans and was on here advocating him ahead of Watkins, who at the time was the consensus #1, no questions asked, like MHJ is.

That being said, I think I like MHJ's overall skill set more than I liked Evans... But I love Odunze more than most precisely because of Evans. They make the exact same types of over the shoulder catches down the sideline that just cant be taught

I do agree, I think Chase was a much better prospect than MHJr, and I also think Lamb was as well. This is not a trash on MHJr at all, he is a great prospect. I am just not buying on the generational talk and think his name helps him out a bit. I think it is close between him and Nabers and if gun to head would probably prefer Nabers.

 

[-OZ-]

Since I’ve played, from memory, as prospects:

Calvin
Fitzgerald
Rogers
AJ - I’ll always remember trying to trade up for Rogers but settling for AJ
Chase
MH jr
AJ Green
Julio
Braylon Edwards
Crabtree

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

Sammy Watkins was in the mix.

 

[-OZ-]

Sammy Watkins was in the mix.

You’re right. Wasn’t he “the next Andre Johnson”?

 

[Grahamburn]

I’m starting to wonder if he’s a little overrated. I watch the tape and it’s nothing but polish all day long. Great route runner, technician, everything you want from that aspect. You know what I don’t see? I don’t see Jefferson in his routes, Lamb after the catch, or Chase in attack. I’m not seeing the make you miss jukes, or deadleg route fakes that result in ankle soup. I’m not seeing the Gumby hip moves or YAC to the end zone.

These are first world problems obviously, but if he’s going to be valued as a 1st round startup pick, I’d really like to see more than what I have so far. He’s super safe. He’s going to be a pro bowler many years but he’s being valued as an all-pro and I’m not quite seeing it.

Also, where’s he going to end up? Arizona? I’d be hoping someone trades up because Zona seems like the perfect fit for inducing the pro-bowl-not-all-pro outcomes I just described. If he’s a Charger, ok now we’re cooking. Patriots? Big yikes that’s gonna end up underwhelming.

Guess what I’m saying is while I really like the player right now, think his market is overstated a bit and not quite seeing the same ceiling. I comped him to Julio awhile back and sort of regret it. He doesn’t have that kind of freak artistry. Actually, I’m not seeing much of anything that’s freaky. I’m seeing a lot of really really good borderline great. Nothing wrong with that. But for the associated hype? Sorry but I expect to see a little more.

Hopefully there’s enough “he’s really good”baseline in this post to avoid getting flamed too hard.

I mostly agree that he's not a great RAC guy, but I think his jump ball ability is phenomenal, right there with anyone in the NFL.

I think Arizona would be a solid landing spot. Kyler Murray has been a part of top-5ish numbers for DeAndre Hopkins and a half season of Hollywood Brown.

Personally, I think Harrison is the best WR prospect in a VERY long time. I do wonder if he's been a victim of overthinking because he's been the consensus top non-QB in this draft since late 2022. He looks like AJ Green with more deep speed to me, and my personal opinion is that he should probably be the #2 pick in the NFL draft, but QB desperation is a hell of a thing. Personally, I'd much rather trade a 2 for Fields and take Harrison if I were Was/NE.

How long? You have to go all the way back to 2021 to find Ja’marr Chase.

I think Harrison is a better prospect than Chase was. I think I go all the way back to Calvin in 2007.

Not even close.

 

[eighsse2]

I’m starting to wonder if he’s a little overrated. I watch the tape and it’s nothing but polish all day long. Great route runner, technician, everything you want from that aspect. You know what I don’t see? I don’t see Jefferson in his routes, Lamb after the catch, or Chase in attack. I’m not seeing the make you miss jukes, or deadleg route fakes that result in ankle soup. I’m not seeing the Gumby hip moves or YAC to the end zone.

These are first world problems obviously, but if he’s going to be valued as a 1st round startup pick, I’d really like to see more than what I have so far. He’s super safe. He’s going to be a pro bowler many years but he’s being valued as an all-pro and I’m not quite seeing it.

Also, where’s he going to end up? Arizona? I’d be hoping someone trades up because Zona seems like the perfect fit for inducing the pro-bowl-not-all-pro outcomes I just described. If he’s a Charger, ok now we’re cooking. Patriots? Big yikes that’s gonna end up underwhelming.

Guess what I’m saying is while I really like the player right now, think his market is overstated a bit and not quite seeing the same ceiling. I comped him to Julio awhile back and sort of regret it. He doesn’t have that kind of freak artistry. Actually, I’m not seeing much of anything that’s freaky. I’m seeing a lot of really really good borderline great. Nothing wrong with that. But for the associated hype? Sorry but I expect to see a little more.

Hopefully there’s enough “he’s really good”baseline in this post to avoid getting flamed too hard.

I mostly agree that he's not a great RAC guy, but I think his jump ball ability is phenomenal, right there with anyone in the NFL.

I think Arizona would be a solid landing spot. Kyler Murray has been a part of top-5ish numbers for DeAndre Hopkins and a half season of Hollywood Brown.

Personally, I think Harrison is the best WR prospect in a VERY long time. I do wonder if he's been a victim of overthinking because he's been the consensus top non-QB in this draft since late 2022. He looks like AJ Green with more deep speed to me, and my personal opinion is that he should probably be the #2 pick in the NFL draft, but QB desperation is a hell of a thing. Personally, I'd much rather trade a 2 for Fields and take Harrison if I were Was/NE.

How long? You have to go all the way back to 2021 to find Ja’marr Chase.

I think Harrison is a better prospect than Chase was. I think I go all the way back to Calvin in 2007.

Not even close.

"Not even close" meaning Chase was a much better prospect than Harrison??

 

[Grahamburn]

I’m starting to wonder if he’s a little overrated. I watch the tape and it’s nothing but polish all day long. Great route runner, technician, everything you want from that aspect. You know what I don’t see? I don’t see Jefferson in his routes, Lamb after the catch, or Chase in attack. I’m not seeing the make you miss jukes, or deadleg route fakes that result in ankle soup. I’m not seeing the Gumby hip moves or YAC to the end zone.

These are first world problems obviously, but if he’s going to be valued as a 1st round startup pick, I’d really like to see more than what I have so far. He’s super safe. He’s going to be a pro bowler many years but he’s being valued as an all-pro and I’m not quite seeing it.

Also, where’s he going to end up? Arizona? I’d be hoping someone trades up because Zona seems like the perfect fit for inducing the pro-bowl-not-all-pro outcomes I just described. If he’s a Charger, ok now we’re cooking. Patriots? Big yikes that’s gonna end up underwhelming.

Guess what I’m saying is while I really like the player right now, think his market is overstated a bit and not quite seeing the same ceiling. I comped him to Julio awhile back and sort of regret it. He doesn’t have that kind of freak artistry. Actually, I’m not seeing much of anything that’s freaky. I’m seeing a lot of really really good borderline great. Nothing wrong with that. But for the associated hype? Sorry but I expect to see a little more.

Hopefully there’s enough “he’s really good”baseline in this post to avoid getting flamed too hard.

I mostly agree that he's not a great RAC guy, but I think his jump ball ability is phenomenal, right there with anyone in the NFL.

I think Arizona would be a solid landing spot. Kyler Murray has been a part of top-5ish numbers for DeAndre Hopkins and a half season of Hollywood Brown.

Personally, I think Harrison is the best WR prospect in a VERY long time. I do wonder if he's been a victim of overthinking because he's been the consensus top non-QB in this draft since late 2022. He looks like AJ Green with more deep speed to me, and my personal opinion is that he should probably be the #2 pick in the NFL draft, but QB desperation is a hell of a thing. Personally, I'd much rather trade a 2 for Fields and take Harrison if I were Was/NE.

How long? You have to go all the way back to 2021 to find Ja’marr Chase.

I think Harrison is a better prospect than Chase was. I think I go all the way back to Calvin in 2007.

Not even close.

"Not even close" meaning Chase was a much better prospect than Harrison??

Calvin>Harrison

 

[Da Franchise]

As prospects I think Chase was every bit as good and think I’d personally rate him higher. Just depends what you’re looking for in a player but I want that extra athleticism and dynamic wow plays. YAC.

The other three that really stand out in my mind as certainly better prospects are Calvin, Green, and Julio. Maybe Watkins. This is obviously very good company and I’m not trying to ding MHJ too much. Fully expect him to be very, very good. I’m just wondering if he ends up more of a Demaryius Thomas/Dez Bryant type of guy with a little longer peak. Nothing at all wrong with that.

 

[eighsse2]

I’m starting to wonder if he’s a little overrated. I watch the tape and it’s nothing but polish all day long. Great route runner, technician, everything you want from that aspect. You know what I don’t see? I don’t see Jefferson in his routes, Lamb after the catch, or Chase in attack. I’m not seeing the make you miss jukes, or deadleg route fakes that result in ankle soup. I’m not seeing the Gumby hip moves or YAC to the end zone.

These are first world problems obviously, but if he’s going to be valued as a 1st round startup pick, I’d really like to see more than what I have so far. He’s super safe. He’s going to be a pro bowler many years but he’s being valued as an all-pro and I’m not quite seeing it.

Also, where’s he going to end up? Arizona? I’d be hoping someone trades up because Zona seems like the perfect fit for inducing the pro-bowl-not-all-pro outcomes I just described. If he’s a Charger, ok now we’re cooking. Patriots? Big yikes that’s gonna end up underwhelming.

Guess what I’m saying is while I really like the player right now, think his market is overstated a bit and not quite seeing the same ceiling. I comped him to Julio awhile back and sort of regret it. He doesn’t have that kind of freak artistry. Actually, I’m not seeing much of anything that’s freaky. I’m seeing a lot of really really good borderline great. Nothing wrong with that. But for the associated hype? Sorry but I expect to see a little more.

Hopefully there’s enough “he’s really good”baseline in this post to avoid getting flamed too hard.

I mostly agree that he's not a great RAC guy, but I think his jump ball ability is phenomenal, right there with anyone in the NFL.

I think Arizona would be a solid landing spot. Kyler Murray has been a part of top-5ish numbers for DeAndre Hopkins and a half season of Hollywood Brown.

Personally, I think Harrison is the best WR prospect in a VERY long time. I do wonder if he's been a victim of overthinking because he's been the consensus top non-QB in this draft since late 2022. He looks like AJ Green with more deep speed to me, and my personal opinion is that he should probably be the #2 pick in the NFL draft, but QB desperation is a hell of a thing. Personally, I'd much rather trade a 2 for Fields and take Harrison if I were Was/NE.

How long? You have to go all the way back to 2021 to find Ja’marr Chase.

I think Harrison is a better prospect than Chase was. I think I go all the way back to Calvin in 2007.

Not even close.

"Not even close" meaning Chase was a much better prospect than Harrison??

Calvin>Harrison

Oh, yeah, that's fair then.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I’m starting to wonder if he’s a little overrated. I watch the tape and it’s nothing but polish all day long. Great route runner, technician, everything you want from that aspect. You know what I don’t see? I don’t see Jefferson in his routes, Lamb after the catch, or Chase in attack. I’m not seeing the make you miss jukes, or deadleg route fakes that result in ankle soup. I’m not seeing the Gumby hip moves or YAC to the end zone.

These are first world problems obviously, but if he’s going to be valued as a 1st round startup pick, I’d really like to see more than what I have so far. He’s super safe. He’s going to be a pro bowler many years but he’s being valued as an all-pro and I’m not quite seeing it.

Also, where’s he going to end up? Arizona? I’d be hoping someone trades up because Zona seems like the perfect fit for inducing the pro-bowl-not-all-pro outcomes I just described. If he’s a Charger, ok now we’re cooking. Patriots? Big yikes that’s gonna end up underwhelming.

Guess what I’m saying is while I really like the player right now, think his market is overstated a bit and not quite seeing the same ceiling. I comped him to Julio awhile back and sort of regret it. He doesn’t have that kind of freak artistry. Actually, I’m not seeing much of anything that’s freaky. I’m seeing a lot of really really good borderline great. Nothing wrong with that. But for the associated hype? Sorry but I expect to see a little more.

Hopefully there’s enough “he’s really good”baseline in this post to avoid getting flamed too hard.

I mostly agree that he's not a great RAC guy, but I think his jump ball ability is phenomenal, right there with anyone in the NFL.

I think Arizona would be a solid landing spot. Kyler Murray has been a part of top-5ish numbers for DeAndre Hopkins and a half season of Hollywood Brown.

Personally, I think Harrison is the best WR prospect in a VERY long time. I do wonder if he's been a victim of overthinking because he's been the consensus top non-QB in this draft since late 2022. He looks like AJ Green with more deep speed to me, and my personal opinion is that he should probably be the #2 pick in the NFL draft, but QB desperation is a hell of a thing. Personally, I'd much rather trade a 2 for Fields and take Harrison if I were Was/NE.

How long? You have to go all the way back to 2021 to find Ja’marr Chase.

I think Harrison is a better prospect than Chase was. I think I go all the way back to Calvin in 2007.

Not even close.

"Not even close" meaning Chase was a much better prospect than Harrison??

Calvin>Harrison

I don't think he was saying differently. He was saying you have to go back to Calvin to find a better prospect, which would imply he also thinks Calvin > Harrison.

 

[Grahamburn]

Got it. Calvin is like once in a lifetime true meaning of the word “generational.”

 

[menobrown]

Generational is really once every few years, a cut above the normal.

We'd had 3 generational RB prospects in the last 10 years. Zeke, Barkely and Bijan.

Two generational TE prospects in the last 5 years, Pitts and Bowers.

Two generational QB's in the last 4 years, Trevor and Williams.

It's an overused term and I never took it at it's face value, just means a really strong prospect, the kind that may not come around for a few years.

Also I believe most people who have responded are not able to recall how they viewed a prospect for how they view the player after a few years in the league and I'll leave it at that.

 

[travdogg]

Generational is really once every few years, a cut above the normal.

We'd had 3 generational RB prospects in the last 10 years. Zeke, Barkely and Bijan.

Two generational TE prospects in the last 5 years, Pitts and Bowers.

Two generational QB's in the last 4 years, Trevor and Williams.

It's an overused term and I never took it at it's face value, just means a really strong prospect, the kind that may not come around for a few years.

Also I believe most people who have responded are not able to recall how they viewed a prospect for how they view the player after a few years in the league and I'll leave it at that.

I've always taken generational player to be based on a relative scale.

Like when a person graduates high school, they have close to 50 years before they will out of the workforce, whereas an NFL player typically will play less than 5 seasons. So, if we assume 1 NFL year=10 regular person years, I'm ok with a generational player happening every 2/3 years.

I personally have my prospect rankings going back to 2017 on a file, and Marvin Harrison Jr. is tied for the 3rd highest non-QB behind only Aidan Hutchinson and Myles Garrett.

 

[Da Franchise]

Generational is really once every few years, a cut above the normal.

We'd had 3 generational RB prospects in the last 10 years. Zeke, Barkely and Bijan.

Two generational TE prospects in the last 5 years, Pitts and Bowers.

Two generational QB's in the last 4 years, Trevor and Williams.

It's an overused term and I never took it at it's face value, just means a really strong prospect, the kind that may not come around for a few years.

Also I believe most people who have responded are not able to recall how they viewed a prospect for how they view the player after a few years in the league and I'll leave it at that.

Agree with everything else but I’ll push back on Trevor, at least in my opinion. Consensus was probably as your describing but I never saw him in the same light. I saw a high floor guy but didn’t see the ceiling everyone else kept highlighting. Now I could still be wrong and maybe he takes a leap but so far he’s been about what I expected. I had Burrow rated higher than him but would still stop short of giving him this label.

Going back to 2010, Luck would be the only other generational QB prospect I would mention with Caleb.

 

[Grahamburn]

Generational is really once every few years, a cut above the normal.

We'd had 3 generational RB prospects in the last 10 years. Zeke, Barkely and Bijan.

Two generational TE prospects in the last 5 years, Pitts and Bowers.

Two generational QB's in the last 4 years, Trevor and Williams.

It's an overused term and I never took it at it's face value, just means a really strong prospect, the kind that may not come around for a few years.

Also I believe most people who have responded are not able to recall how they viewed a prospect for how they view the player after a few years in the league and I'll leave it at that.

Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Those guys weren’t generational. Calvin was. MHJr. Isn’t.

It’s definitely overused and shouldn’t be taken literally.

 

[Soulfly3]

I don't think bijan was generational at all. nor is caleb.

For me, the list in recent history is small as to who was "truly" generational.

Megatron. Andrew luck. Saquon.

When you don't "misuse" the term it should be 1-2 players in a given decade.

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

Sounds like an unsolvable semantic argument to me

 

[Grahamburn]

I don't think bijan was generational at all. nor is caleb.

For me, the list in recent history is small as to who was "truly" generational.

Megatron. Andrew luck. Saquon.

When you don't "misuse" the term it should be 1-2 players in a given decade.

Or, you know, in a generation!

 

[Soulfly3]

I don't think bijan was generational at all. nor is caleb.

For me, the list in recent history is small as to who was "truly" generational.

Megatron. Andrew luck. Saquon.

When you don't "misuse" the term it should be 1-2 players in a given decade.

Or, you know, in a generation!

To be fair, a decade basically is a "generation" in football

 

[King of the Jungle]

Generational is a tough topic because even those prospects do not live up to standards and it is tough to look backwards. I would agree with @Soulfly3 that Luck, Saquan, Calvin were considered generational. I do not think Caleb or MHJr are in the same boat and I do not think it is close through my amateur eyes.

 

[ghostguy123]

MHJ is not a generational talent.

 

[DevilDog919]

Rookie hype hitting full force. Two generational talents in this draft?

 

[travdogg]

Generational is a tough topic because even those prospects do not live up to standards and it is tough to look backwards. I would agree with @Soulfly3 that Luck, Saquan, Calvin were considered generational. I do not think Caleb or MHJr are in the same boat and I do not think it is close through my amateur eyes.

I would 100% agree that Caleb Williams is not a generational talent. I'd also add I don't think Barkley was but that's another conversation. But man, I think Marvin Harrison Jr. is and is somehow underrated. I do wonder if its because he's been the no-brainer best non-QB for 2 years now, like its over the top nitpicking because its such a layup pick.

Harrison is a 6-4 210-ish pound guy who likely runs in the 4.35-4.40 range. He succeeded against a lot of double teams, and both inside and outside. He is fantastic at contested catches and has elite body control. His runs excellent routes, like there aren't 10 guys in the NFL who run better routes than him right now, let alone as he develops further. He is also super quick, with a timed shuttle time of 3.94 which is something you usually see from tiny slot guys, not guys 6-4. He wins at every level, short, intermediate, and deep. He's even a good blocker.

The only real weakness I can see, is he's a mediocre RAC guy, which means nothing to me. AJ Green and Mike Evans weren't good RAC guys either, and Harrison is a lot quicker than they were. I think Harrison is the safest pick in the draft, barring injury it'd be a downright shock if he wasn't at least Michael Pittman good, that's his absolute floor in my opinion. I think his ceiling is HOFer. If he makes it to Arizona at #4, someone in the top-3 did something stupid. Personally, if I'm Washington, I'm taking Harrison at #2. As a Bears fan, I'd love the scenario of moving down a spot for a haul, taking Harrison, and sticking with Fields, and I say that as someone who likes Caleb a lot.

 

[Soulfly3]

For me, "generational" means that there is little/no way a player can be stopped (injury aside), regardless of scheme or opponent.

MHJ, Nabers, Chase etc... All very, VERY good, but when I watch them I never said "no one will ever stop him"

Megatron? Yup, you knew he couldn't be stopped. I'd argue the same for Saquon (tho obv it's a different metric for RBs)... That's what I have to see when a guy is on my screen. He transcends coverage.

That's why for me, there hasn't been another actually generational WR since megatron (coming out of college), nor for me, Saquon at RB

 

[Soulfly3]

PFF COMBINED CONSENSUS RANKING OF ALL STABLE METRICS SINCE 2022

Rank Wide receiver

1 Malachi Corley, Western Kentucky
2 Tahj Washington, USC
3 Troy Franklin, Oregon
4 Malik Nabers, LSU
5 Jamari Thrash, Lousiville
6 Rome Odunze, Washington
7 Roman Wilson, Michigan
8 Joshua Cephus, UTSA
9 Malik Washington, Virginia
10 Marvin Harrison Jr., Ohio State

 

[Faust]

Ohio State WR Marvin Harrison Jr. not expected to do any testing at NFL combine

 

[Big Nate]

Ohio State WR Marvin Harrison Jr. not expected to do any testing at NFL combine

Honestly I don't blame him but will that sour any NFL teams? No agent supposedly and now no testing, workouts, drills etc to compare him side by side with the other talents.

He's still at worst the 2nd WR taken, even if he falls out of favor to some teams, but I can see him being worried about not showing well and losing draft stock.

What you would love to see is him attend and crush the combine and really wow teams. Force their hand to see if he can be a top 3 overall pick in the NFL draft.

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

Chase didn't do any and missed the previous season. Didn't make any difference for him and won't for Marv either. He's going in the top 5.

 

[-OZ-]

Yup, you knew he couldn't be stopped. I'd argue the same for Saquon (tho obv it's a different metric for RBs)... That's what I have to see when a guy is on my screen. He transcends coverage.

That's why for me, there hasn't been another actually generational WR since megatron (coming out of college), nor for me, Saquon at RB

I like Barkley but he’s proven he can be stopped.
Derrick Henry is the generational running back.
CMC the generational “offensive weapon”.

 

[-OZ-]

Chase didn't do any and missed the previous season. Didn't make any difference for him and won't for Marv either. He's going in the top 5.

If you’re the TOP player at a key position, pro days make more sense really.

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

pro days make more sense really.

And none of these orchestrated days even vaguely matter more than the production you've already put on tape. He can skip his pro day if he wants. It's not making a material difference to his draft value.

 

[menobrown]

Yup, you knew he couldn't be stopped. I'd argue the same for Saquon (tho obv it's a different metric for RBs)... That's what I have to see when a guy is on my screen. He transcends coverage.

That's why for me, there hasn't been another actually generational WR since megatron (coming out of college), nor for me, Saquon at RB

I like Barkley but he’s proven he can be stopped.
Derrick Henry is the generational running back.
CMC the generational “offensive weapon”.

I viewed Zeke as every single bit of the elite prospect that I viewed Barkley as being and Bijan just a tad less then both of them.

Now regarding Marvin.

I am using redrafts as a guide because I have no dynasty real data I have never seen a rookie WR going this early in redrafts as I'm seeing Marvin. Now I was not doing these early drafts when Calvin came out and can't recall where he went but safe to say over the last 10-12 years I've not seen a rookie WR valued as high as Marvin is at this point in the process by the "consensus". Maybe not everyone, but consensus opinion for him as high as I've seen in again the last 10-12 years. That's still not a generation to me but I can say with 100% certainty people were not clamoring for guys like Chase and Lamb at this point like they are Marvin or again any other WR I can recall in last 10 or so years.

 

[-OZ-]

pro days make more sense really.

And none of these orchestrated days even vaguely matter more than the production you've already put on tape. He can skip his pro day if he wants. It's not making a material difference to his draft value.

That’s fair. Sometimes it seems the real benefit is getting fans hyped.

 

[Soulfly3]

Yup, you knew he couldn't be stopped. I'd argue the same for Saquon (tho obv it's a different metric for RBs)... That's what I have to see when a guy is on my screen. He transcends coverage.

That's why for me, there hasn't been another actually generational WR since megatron (coming out of college), nor for me, Saquon at RB

I like Barkley but he’s proven he can be stopped.
Derrick Henry is the generational running back.
CMC the generational “offensive weapon”.

I was referring to out of college. Not once in the NFL. Out of college only saquon, megatron and luck were truly "generational" in my eyes

In the NFL, Id argue both Chubb or Henry the best pure RB. And CMC best weapon.

 

[menobrown]

Forget NFL teams, how bothered will some of you be that we will never get testing on him?

If you got Nabers or Odunze close to him and they blaze in the 4.3's does it make up the gap? Does it make close the gap if those dudes are running like the wind and have better perceived landing spots?

MJH has apparently run in the 4.3's and can bench press 400 pounds. You going to just buy that and conclude he's skipping all testing because he's that confident he does not need to or is he ducking the comp?

 

[Soulfly3]

MJH has apparently run in the 4.3's and can bench press 400 pounds. You going to just buy that and conclude he's skipping all testing because he's that confident he does not need to or is he ducking the comp?

See, in a situation like this, I don't at all like a guy ducking the combine.... You're not THAT far ahead of Nabers and Odunze, if at all. So you're basically risking falling to 2 or 3... and maybe that doesn't matter to him. It probably does.

But show you're a real competitor now... Don't shy away from showing you're the best of the crop.

It's not a Caleb situaiton where you're a clear 1 and every after is a mess of order.

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

Nabers isn't running at the combine either. Who would he be 'competing' with?

 

[Soulfly3]

Nabers isn't running at the combine either. Who would he be 'competing' with?

if oyu dont respect Rome Odunze this very second....

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

Nobody is taking Odunze over MHJ. They all know it. Nothing at the underwear Olympics is or was going to change that.

The combine is not changing anything. It's just an interesting event where peripheral players can demonstrate baselines.

Elite players don't bother, they don't need to. Their work is already done. They've already won their 'competition'.

 

[menobrown]

Nabers isn't running at the combine either.

But unlike MHJ he will on his pro day.

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

So presumably he'll be competing with Brian Thomas Jnr at that event?

Or is it just a largely meaningless, pre-orchestrated show to demonstrate what everyone already knows?

 

[massraider]

MJH has apparently run in the 4.3's and can bench press 400 pounds. You going to just buy that and conclude he's skipping all testing because he's that confident he does not need to or is he ducking the comp?

They have his GPS speed in games. I posted this earlier.

https://theathletic.com/3488797/202...l-freaks-list-2022?source=user-shared-article

This guy puts out a freaks list of athletes. Yes, it's behind a paywall.

Regarding Marvin Harrison Jr:
He benched 380 pounds this offseason, doing 22 reps at 225. He clocked a blistering 3.94 pro shuttle time and did 10-9 on the broad jump. He also topped out at 23 mph on the GPS.

If he's running 23 mph on the field, I have no speed questions.

They know he has no athletic questions.

 

[-OZ-]

Forget NFL teams, how bothered will some of you be that we will never get testing on him?

If you got Nabers or Odunze close to him and they blaze in the 4.3's does it make up the gap? Does it make close the gap if those dudes are running like the wind and have better perceived landing spots?

MJH has apparently run in the 4.3's and can bench press 400 pounds. You going to just buy that and conclude he's skipping all testing because he's that confident he does not need to or is he ducking the comp?

MH is the 1.01 in regular leagues. There’s nothing non-criminal he could do to change that.
at the max bench mattering here.
And yeah, we have his speed on game tape.
So instead of training for the underwear Olympics he focuses on what actually matters.

 

[menobrown]

MJH has apparently run in the 4.3's and can bench press 400 pounds. You going to just buy that and conclude he's skipping all testing because he's that confident he does not need to or is he ducking the comp?

They have his GPS speed in games. I posted this earlier.

https://theathletic.com/3488797/202...l-freaks-list-2022?source=user-shared-article

This guy puts out a freaks list of athletes. Yes, it's behind a paywall.

Regarding Marvin Harrison Jr:
He benched 380 pounds this offseason, doing 22 reps at 225. He clocked a blistering 3.94 pro shuttle time and did 10-9 on the broad jump. He also topped out at 23 mph on the GPS.

If he's running 23 mph on the field, I have no speed questions.

They know he has no athletic questions.

No way, they have GPS now!!!! .....seriously

A few things:

*My post specifically said "forget NFL teams". The only GPS data I have ever seen are someone telling me what a players top speed was. All things being close to equal, and to me Nabers is that, I like when I can look under the hood a little.

Now for NFL draft stock stuff:

*Can you name the non-QB's who all skipped all pre-draft testing that was not related to medical/health issues preventing them from testing? As a followup question do you think they have athletic questions on Nabers and if not why is he planning to participate at his pro day? Why is anyone who is a locked in top 10 pick particpating?

I'll answer my own questions:

I can't recall a non-QB skipping all the testing what was not related to health and not able to test but please tell me if I'm forgetting someone who just said "pass". No I don't think the league has any concerns about Nabers athleltic testing but on that note some players surprise teams, sometimes in a good way, like Chase who ran faster then most thought he could. Why Nabers and anyone who is a locked in top 10 pick tests because it's a competition and the higher you go the more you get paid and sometimes, despite GPS testing, the predraft testing process does change some players draft stock. Good and bad. And just the difference from pick 5 to say pick 4 is $2M.

So people can believe it or not but some of the people I follow, and you probably as well, people who have NFL connections swear some teams have Nabers above MHJ or that it's close. MHJ seems to be operating as a player who either does not believe that to be true or believes testing won't help him vs Nabers or his overall draft stock. And he may be right.

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

Or maybe he thinks that if some teams have Nabers over him, a brilliant, dominant performance at the combine won't change them of that opinion either way, so why bother.

It might make a team more secure in their decision to take a player, but I don't think combine testing influences whether they take someone or not, or where specific players are ranked.