WR Sammy Watkins, BAL (1 Viewer)

[Sabertooth]

I think Watkins is a better prospect than any of those guys.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

This is awesome.

I ask who he is going to "consistently" bump out of the top 5 and i get a handful of responses listing current WR ages.

So he won't bump them out consistently, he will just wait until half or more retire??

Who did Josh Gordon and Dez bump out of the top 5 before they were included in the list? Were you laughing when owners were not selling them because they were holding thinking they had a top guy?

My point is at some stage you have to make a decision about players entering the NFL as well as current young players in the NFL and put values on them. You also have to make decisions and make some calculated risks. No one will bat 100 percent but to shrug it off and laugh when players like Watkins come around and simply dismiss him as they hype is out of control is silly. Fantasy football is far from exact.

When slapped in the face with reason you back off a bit.

At the start of the thread you were the guy saying he is the equivalent of an Olympic Sprinter until I pointed out his times were that of an above average high-schooler.

Your last sentence is the start and the end to this. Purporting he will walk into the league as a top 5 receiver year in year out is akin to saying he is an Olympic caliber sprinter.

Watkins has a PB of 10.45 seconds in the 100 meter which he ran in 2011. Not Olympic caliber but pretty darn fast.

You are underrating how good of a prospect Watkins is and any team that drafts him will be doing so early and will be thinking that they are getting a guy that will develop into one of the tops in his position in time.

10.45 actually is olympic caliber. That time would have beaten 33 men in 2012.

I believe I already documented it would have finished well out of the medals in my state high school meet. Here

And to the above, yes 10.45 (btw I thought it was 10.59.. are we exaggerating again?) is fast but not close to US Olympic caliber.. I should have specified US. I'm sure Watkins could beat Vietnam's representative. Damn fast >< US Olympic fast.

Watkins will be damn good. He won't walk into the league and "consistently" bump off current top 5 Wrs. Damn good >< Top 5 WRs on the planet.

I'm just trying to reign in Carter's (and others) hyperbole... people are getting way ahead of themselves.

Get your #### straight before you post, so you don't have to move the goalposts next time.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Lol, 10.45 Olympic caliber.

You should read more

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

This is awesome.

I ask who he is going to "consistently" bump out of the top 5 and i get a handful of responses listing current WR ages.

So he won't bump them out consistently, he will just wait until half or more retire??

Who did Josh Gordon and Dez bump out of the top 5 before they were included in the list? Were you laughing when owners were not selling them because they were holding thinking they had a top guy?

My point is at some stage you have to make a decision about players entering the NFL as well as current young players in the NFL and put values on them. You also have to make decisions and make some calculated risks. No one will bat 100 percent but to shrug it off and laugh when players like Watkins come around and simply dismiss him as they hype is out of control is silly. Fantasy football is far from exact.

When slapped in the face with reason you back off a bit.

At the start of the thread you were the guy saying he is the equivalent of an Olympic Sprinter until I pointed out his times were that of an above average high-schooler.

Your last sentence is the start and the end to this. Purporting he will walk into the league as a top 5 receiver year in year out is akin to saying he is an Olympic caliber sprinter.

Watkins has a PB of 10.45 seconds in the 100 meter which he ran in 2011. Not Olympic caliber but pretty darn fast.

You are underrating how good of a prospect Watkins is and any team that drafts him will be doing so early and will be thinking that they are getting a guy that will develop into one of the tops in his position in time.

10.45 actually is olympic caliber. That time would have beaten 33 men in 2012.

I believe I already documented it would have finished well out of the medals in my state high school meet. Here

And to the above, yes 10.45 (btw I thought it was 10.59.. are we exaggerating again?) is fast but not close to US Olympic caliber.. I should have specified US. I'm sure Watkins could beat Vietnam's representative. Damn fast >< US Olympic fast.

Watkins will be damn good. He won't walk into the league and "consistently" bump off current top 5 Wrs. Damn good >< Top 5 WRs on the planet.

I'm just trying to reign in Carter's (and others) hyperbole... people are getting way ahead of themselves.

Get your #### straight before you post, so you don't have to move the goalposts next time.

Thanks,

He tried to change it to US Olympic caliber to better fit his criteria.

I also in no way said he is going to automatically bump out any of the top 5 WR's. But yet again he is trying to put words in my mouth. I simply stated that I like the chances of Watkins hitting the top 5 at his position more than someone like Keenen Allen.

What I will say is Watkins is a prospect who will be drafted top 10 in the NFL and potentially top 5 in a draft that is said to be the deepest drafts that many of the pundits have ever seen. Therefore the team that drafts him thinks they are getting a guy who is going to not only be a good player but a great player and one they feel is going to be one of the better players in the league at their position sooner than later.

If/when he goes early it is not a team reaching for a position either like what happens every year at QB, it is because he is BPA and deserved of that pick.

 

[Carl Eller's Dead Liver]

Why do we always have to compare and find an exacet replica of a player that is already playing?....... if prospect doesn't fit, size, weight, speed, athletic ability, etc exactly then he can't possibly become an elite WR. It's ridiculous!

Watkins passes the eye test. He's been productive. He's on the upper end of athletic ability, but he's not a freak........what he does do better than almost every other WR that's entered the draft in the past 10 years is route running. He knows how to set up his defenders and get open. He's fast on top of that. It's silly watching everyone get into a pissing match over what cookie cutter WR mold Watkins fits in. Watkins is himself. He's a unique WR on his own. He'll be elite.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

These threads are becoming less and less useful. Jesus Christ, we're talking about whether a guy has olympic speed? Really? That's boredom I guess.

Agreed. In this age of information thanks to the internet, people seem more likely to argue their points. It's funny the lengths people will go to "prove" their point but it's also obvious they are learning new information as they Google information to back their stance. It's laughable at first then quickly turns annoying. I'm going to claim X, Y & Z without the necessary facts then if you dispute it, I'm going to instantly "research" said claims on the internet, learning new things about the argument I started. Bottom line: nobody is fooled by this instant knowledge and petty arguing. Instead of having meaningful discussions about FF, it's now about who can Google better. Read-Icculus!

 

[duaneok66]

Great, intelligent thread. Thanks to all.

 

[duaneok66]

Over the last 15 years, these receivers under 6-2 have been drafted in the top ten.

Troy Williamson (bust)

Ted Ginn (bust - relative to draft position)

Justin Blackmon (jury is still out)

Peter Warrick (bust)

Koren Robinson (bust)

Travis Taylor (bust)

Torry Holt (stacked pro bowls on top of pro bowls)

Tavon Austin (jury is still out)

Even if you are a guy that tends to think that Watkins isn't destined to be a top 10 NFL WR, remember that sometimes there are exceptions. But that's part of the fun of it - to see how players actually perform on an NFL field.

 

[jurb26]

No Austin?

 

[duaneok66]

I am dumb - forgot about him - will edit previous post.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Why did you pick 6'2"?

 

[duaneok66]

I just used that as a cut off point based on the discussion throughout the thread.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I just used that as a cut off point based on the discussion throughout the thread.

So what do you think that means?

 

[cstu]

Blackmon and Robinson busting have nothing to do with ability to play WR.

 

[duaneok66]

Blackmon and Robinson busting have nothing to do with ability to play WR.

that was not the point of the post.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Blackmon and Robinson busting have nothing to do with ability to play WR.

that was not the point of the post.

What was the point?

 

[duaneok66]

Others (earlier in the thread) posted varying lists with regard to height/NFL production. I didn't think that this specific list was posted. I decided to look up the list of guys that were under 6-2 and drafted in the top 10.

The deck is stacked against Watkins, HOWEVER based on everything I have read, if anyone can succeed (i.e. be a NFL top 10 WR) despite not being 6-2 or taller, then Watkins can.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Others (earlier in the thread) posted varying lists with regard to height/NFL production. I didn't think that this specific list was posted. I decided to look up the list of guys that were under 6-2 and drafted in the top 10.

The deck is stacked against Watkins, HOWEVER based on everything I have read, if anyone can succeed (i.e. be a NFL top 10 WR) despite not being 6-2 or taller, then Watkins can.

That list doesn't bother you at all? That there are 8 values there, and that if Watkins is drafted lower than 10, the chances of him "succeeding" becomes higher? Those are just the right off the bat problems from me, I'm sure someone smarter with more time could come up with 20 more. I haven't seen a stacked deck anywhere.

 

[duaneok66]

Others (earlier in the thread) posted varying lists with regard to height/NFL production. I didn't think that this specific list was posted. I decided to look up the list of guys that were under 6-2 and drafted in the top 10.

The deck is stacked against Watkins, HOWEVER based on everything I have read, if anyone can succeed (i.e. be a NFL top 10 WR) despite not being 6-2 or taller, then Watkins can.

That list doesn't bother you at all? That there are 8 values there, and that if Watkins is drafted lower than 10, the chances of him "succeeding" becomes higher? Those are just the right off the bat problems from me, I'm sure someone smarter with more time could come up with 20 more. I haven't seen a stacked deck anywhere.

good point. I guess I shouldn't have used the term "deck is stacked against".

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Others (earlier in the thread) posted varying lists with regard to height/NFL production. I didn't think that this specific list was posted. I decided to look up the list of guys that were under 6-2 and drafted in the top 10.

The deck is stacked against Watkins, HOWEVER based on everything I have read, if anyone can succeed (i.e. be a NFL top 10 WR) despite not being 6-2 or taller, then Watkins can.

That list doesn't bother you at all? That there are 8 values there, and that if Watkins is drafted lower than 10, the chances of him "succeeding" becomes higher? Those are just the right off the bat problems from me, I'm sure someone smarter with more time could come up with 20 more. I haven't seen a stacked deck anywhere.

good point. I guess I shouldn't have used the term "deck is stacked against".

I don't mean to poop on that post, I just don't think that list tells any sort of story.

 

[Milkman]

lol smh

It's pretty obvious that being 6'2 or bigger makes everything easier. If you're 6'0 you better be mega-elite at gaining separation.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

lol smh

It's pretty obvious that being 6'2 or bigger makes everything easier. If you're 6'0 you better be mega-elite at gaining separation.

It's pretty obvious that being good makes you good, and being bad makes you less good.

 

[Donnybrook]

Over the last 15 years, these receivers under 6-2 have been drafted in the top ten.

Troy Williamson (bust)

Ted Ginn (bust - relative to draft position)

Justin Blackmon (jury is still out)

Peter Warrick (bust)

Koren Robinson (bust)

Travis Taylor (bust)

Torry Holt (stacked pro bowls on top of pro bowls)

Tavon Austin (jury is still out)

Even if you are a guy that tends to think that Watkins isn't destined to be a top 10 NFL WR, remember that sometimes there are exceptions. But that's part of the fun of it - to see how players actually perform on an NFL field.

You missed Crabtree as well.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

lol smh

It's pretty obvious that being 6'2 or bigger makes everything easier. If you're 6'0 you better be mega-elite at gaining separation.

It's pretty obvious that being good makes you good, and being bad makes you less good.

I understand the point you're trying to make but you're missing the probability side of the equation. Nobody can accurately predict who will be elite and who won't based on talent or game tape alone. Whoever has that ability would be the greatest scouting guru of all time. That being said, knowing and realizing your eye has flaws, you can only better your chances by using probability in your favor.

There are A LOT of variables that go into forecasting future productivity of NFL players. Spotting trends and increasing your chances of hitting is one of several variables. It does you no favors to mock one facet of the whole and it makes you look arrogant. When there's an obvious trend all anyone can do is use that information proportionately with all other variables to derive a final conclusion/ranking on players.

 

[duaneok66]

Over the last 15 years, these receivers under 6-2 have been drafted in the top ten.

Troy Williamson (bust)

Ted Ginn (bust - relative to draft position)

Justin Blackmon (jury is still out)

Peter Warrick (bust)

Koren Robinson (bust)

Travis Taylor (bust)

Torry Holt (stacked pro bowls on top of pro bowls)

Tavon Austin (jury is still out)

Even if you are a guy that tends to think that Watkins isn't destined to be a top 10 NFL WR, remember that sometimes there are exceptions. But that's part of the fun of it - to see how players actually perform on an NFL field.

You missed Crabtree as well.

Crabtree is listed at 6-2 by Pro Football Reference, PFW does list him at 6 1 and 3/8 in their 2009 draft guide. Thank you PFR.

 

[duaneok66]

Over the last 15 years, these receivers under 6-2 have been drafted in the top ten.

Troy Williamson (bust)

Ted Ginn (bust - relative to draft position)

Justin Blackmon (jury is still out)

Peter Warrick (bust)

Koren Robinson (bust)

Travis Taylor (bust)

Torry Holt (stacked pro bowls on top of pro bowls)

Tavon Austin (jury is still out)

Michael Crabtree (good pro)

Even if you are a guy that tends to think that Watkins isn't destined to be a top 10 NFL WR, remember that sometimes there are exceptions. But that's part of the fun of it - to see how players actually perform on an NFL field.

 

[pantherclub]

Others (earlier in the thread) posted varying lists with regard to height/NFL production. I didn't think that this specific list was posted. I decided to look up the list of guys that were under 6-2 and drafted in the top 10.

The deck is stacked against Watkins, HOWEVER based on everything I have read, if anyone can succeed (i.e. be a NFL top 10 WR) despite not being 6-2 or taller, then Watkins can.

Say what?

 

[pantherclub]

Others (earlier in the thread) posted varying lists with regard to height/NFL production. I didn't think that this specific list was posted. I decided to look up the list of guys that were under 6-2 and drafted in the top 10.

The deck is stacked against Watkins, HOWEVER based on everything I have read, if anyone can succeed (i.e. be a NFL top 10 WR) despite not being 6-2 or taller, then Watkins can.

That list doesn't bother you at all? That there are 8 values there, and that if Watkins is drafted lower than 10, the chances of him "succeeding" becomes higher? Those are just the right off the bat problems from me, I'm sure someone smarter with more time could come up with 20 more. I haven't seen a stacked deck anywhere.

good point. I guess I shouldn't have used the term "deck is stacked against".

I don't mean to poop on that post, I just don't think that list tells any sort of story.

No lie, I dont think there is any correlation whatsoever between height and if they are a top 10 pick. Actually it seems quite stupid.

 

[SayWhat?]

Others (earlier in the thread) posted varying lists with regard to height/NFL production. I didn't think that this specific list was posted. I decided to look up the list of guys that were under 6-2 and drafted in the top 10.

The deck is stacked against Watkins, HOWEVER based on everything I have read, if anyone can succeed (i.e. be a NFL top 10 WR) despite not being 6-2 or taller, then Watkins can.

Say what?

At your beck and call sir.

 

[matttyl]

There have also been a few 6'2"+ WRs taken in the top 10 who haven't had good careers in the last 15 years - DHB, Braylon Edwards, Mike Williams, Roy Williams, Reggie Williams, Charles Rodgers, David Terrell, Travis Taylor, and David Boston.

If we slide the scale to include those drafted between 11-20, we can also include Rod Gardner, Javon Walker, Ashley Lelie, Bryant Johnson, and Michael Clayton.

To me, that says a lot about the position in general, not about the height of the players at the position.

 

[matuski]

This is awesome.

I ask who he is going to "consistently" bump out of the top 5 and i get a handful of responses listing current WR ages.

So he won't bump them out consistently, he will just wait until half or more retire??

Who did Josh Gordon and Dez bump out of the top 5 before they were included in the list? Were you laughing when owners were not selling them because they were holding thinking they had a top guy?

My point is at some stage you have to make a decision about players entering the NFL as well as current young players in the NFL and put values on them. You also have to make decisions and make some calculated risks. No one will bat 100 percent but to shrug it off and laugh when players like Watkins come around and simply dismiss him as they hype is out of control is silly. Fantasy football is far from exact.

When slapped in the face with reason you back off a bit.

At the start of the thread you were the guy saying he is the equivalent of an Olympic Sprinter until I pointed out his times were that of an above average high-schooler.

Your last sentence is the start and the end to this. Purporting he will walk into the league as a top 5 receiver year in year out is akin to saying he is an Olympic caliber sprinter.

Watkins has a PB of 10.45 seconds in the 100 meter which he ran in 2011. Not Olympic caliber but pretty darn fast.

You are underrating how good of a prospect Watkins is and any team that drafts him will be doing so early and will be thinking that they are getting a guy that will develop into one of the tops in his position in time.

10.45 actually is olympic caliber. That time would have beaten 33 men in 2012.

I believe I already documented it would have finished well out of the medals in my state high school meet. Here

And to the above, yes 10.45 (btw I thought it was 10.59.. are we exaggerating again?) is fast but not close to US Olympic caliber.. I should have specified US. I'm sure Watkins could beat Vietnam's representative. Damn fast >< US Olympic fast.

Watkins will be damn good. He won't walk into the league and "consistently" bump off current top 5 Wrs. Damn good >< Top 5 WRs on the planet.

I'm just trying to reign in Carter's (and others) hyperbole... people are getting way ahead of themselves.

Get your #### straight before you post, so you don't have to move the goalposts next time.

Go read the link posted.

I didn't move the posts, I was assuming people had read the thread (my bad I guess) so I was sticking with the original line of discussion (in the link).

Watkins time would not medal in a Texas High school meet. If his time beats an Olympic runner from Morrocco, excuse the hell out of me for assuming others wouldn't go there.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

lol smh

It's pretty obvious that being 6'2 or bigger makes everything easier. If you're 6'0 you better be mega-elite at gaining separation.

It's pretty obvious that being good makes you good, and being bad makes you less good.

I understand the point you're trying to make but you're missing the probability side of the equation. Nobody can accurately predict who will be elite and who won't based on talent or game tape alone. Whoever has that ability would be the greatest scouting guru of all time. That being said, knowing and realizing your eye has flaws, you can only better your chances by using probability in your favor.

There are A LOT of variables that go into forecasting future productivity of NFL players. Spotting trends and increasing your chances of hitting is one of several variables. It does you no favors to mock one facet of the whole and it makes you look arrogant. When there's an obvious trend all anyone can do is use that information proportionately with all other variables to derive a final conclusion/ranking on players.

I would consider arrogant to say a particular method to determine if a guy will be good or not is provided by a list of 8 players. I'm not saying I know anything about predicting how good players are, but that list said less than duane thinks it did.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

This is awesome.

I ask who he is going to "consistently" bump out of the top 5 and i get a handful of responses listing current WR ages.

So he won't bump them out consistently, he will just wait until half or more retire??

Who did Josh Gordon and Dez bump out of the top 5 before they were included in the list? Were you laughing when owners were not selling them because they were holding thinking they had a top guy?

My point is at some stage you have to make a decision about players entering the NFL as well as current young players in the NFL and put values on them. You also have to make decisions and make some calculated risks. No one will bat 100 percent but to shrug it off and laugh when players like Watkins come around and simply dismiss him as they hype is out of control is silly. Fantasy football is far from exact.

When slapped in the face with reason you back off a bit.

At the start of the thread you were the guy saying he is the equivalent of an Olympic Sprinter until I pointed out his times were that of an above average high-schooler.

Your last sentence is the start and the end to this. Purporting he will walk into the league as a top 5 receiver year in year out is akin to saying he is an Olympic caliber sprinter.

Watkins has a PB of 10.45 seconds in the 100 meter which he ran in 2011. Not Olympic caliber but pretty darn fast.

You are underrating how good of a prospect Watkins is and any team that drafts him will be doing so early and will be thinking that they are getting a guy that will develop into one of the tops in his position in time.

10.45 actually is olympic caliber. That time would have beaten 33 men in 2012.

I believe I already documented it would have finished well out of the medals in my state high school meet. Here

And to the above, yes 10.45 (btw I thought it was 10.59.. are we exaggerating again?) is fast but not close to US Olympic caliber.. I should have specified US. I'm sure Watkins could beat Vietnam's representative. Damn fast >< US Olympic fast.

Watkins will be damn good. He won't walk into the league and "consistently" bump off current top 5 Wrs. Damn good >< Top 5 WRs on the planet.

I'm just trying to reign in Carter's (and others) hyperbole... people are getting way ahead of themselves.

Get your #### straight before you post, so you don't have to move the goalposts next time.

Go read the link posted.

I didn't move the posts, I was assuming people had read the thread (my bad I guess) so I was sticking with the original line of discussion (in the link).

Watkins time would not medal in a Texas High school meet. If his time beats an Olympic runner from Morrocco, excuse the hell out of me for assuming others wouldn't go there.

Your link didn't explain anything. Words mean things. Use them appropriately and we understand what you mean. Use them inappropriately and we don't.

 

[massraider]

Nice work, this thread is completely un-readable. Time to move on, maybe go and s**t on the Terrance West thread for a while?

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Nice work, this thread is completely un-readable. Time to move on, maybe go and s**t on the Terrance West thread for a while?

Your aggression isn't appreciated. I did two things in this thread: disagree with how someone came to a conclusion and correct someone's factual error. Did I get fished by Matsuki? Probably. I'll stop replying to him now. Me getting trolled doesn't make me the bad guy though.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Sammy Watkins - WR - Player
Clemson WR Sammy Watkins had a pre-draft visit with the Lions on Tuesday.
The Lions are serious about upgrading their receiving corps and have been linked to Watkins and Texas A&M WR Mike Evans quite a bit. In the house for Watkins' visit were Vice Chairman Bill Ford Jr., Calvin Johnson, and Golden Tate. The Lions currently hold the No. 10 overall pick in next month's draft and would almost certainly have to trade up to No. 2 or 3 to secure Watkins.

Related: Lions

 

[Shutout]

You guys that are hyping Watkins may be right but it's a little hard to buy, for me, because the rare air you are putting him in before he ever steps on a field is in a category that is simply reserved for iconic receivers. Not guys that are/were great...not guys that had a "really good" career....but iconic.

In the time I have been playing FF, there are about 5-6 guys that came out of college that I have looked at and said "Can't miss...super stud...this guy has it ALL". THose guys were

Randy Moss

AJ

Fitz

Calvin

Dez

Crabtree

In fairness, looks like I might miss the boat on Crabtree and I DID, so far miss the boat on AJ Green because I was certain Julio would be better by a wide margin. Still a lot of that story to unfold though.

But anyway, that's a list of players that looked the same now as it did then and you can't put a finger on it but you just KNOW. And with Watkins, I don't get that same feeling.

Watkins, to me, is more of a Demaryius Thomas, Hakeem Nicks (when he was healthy), Justin blackmon type. Guys that with very little good luck, would be impact ff players butstill there remains a wide casm between them and these iconic players.

Again, you guys might be right but my general feeling is when you crank up a hype machine in fantasy, WR is the WORST position to do it.

 

[cstu]

What do you think Crabtree had that Watkins doesn't?

 

[duaneok66]

I like the conversation. Both sides have made compelling points. I can't wait to see who drafts him.

 

[Faust]

Buzz continues to build around Lions, Sammy WaktinsBy Bryan Fischer

College Football 24/7 writer

Another day, another 2014 NFL Draft rumor. This time however, we can say the Detroit Lions' flirtation with Clemson receiver Sammy Watkins is getting to the point that we're going to have to say it has legs.

NFL Media insider Ian Rapoport confirmed Tuesday's reports that Watkins was in Detroit to meet with Lions' brass. According to Detroit Free Press beat writer Dave Birkett, Watkins met with Calvin Johnson, the recently signed Golden Tate and possibly even owner Bill Ford Jr. while at the team's facilities.

All that prompted Rapoport to say there continues to be strong buzz the team is considering trading up from 10th overall to snag somebody who is widely considered the best receiver in the draft.

It seems like it has become a weekly occurrence where the Lions are linked to Watkins in some form or fashion. The team's front office met with the Clemson wideout before his pro day and they haven't exactly hidden the fact that they think Watkins is a special player.

"He's an outstanding player," general manager Martin Mayhew told MLive.com recently. "Obviously, he's got the speed, he's got the quickness, he's got the playmaking ability. Another guy you can just get the ball in his hands and he can make something happen.

Watkins is clearly interested in teaming up with Johnson and Tate in Detroit as well. He's made no secret of the fact that he thinks he'll be perfect opposite of Johnson and has fanned the rumors more than he's doused them.

If Mayhew decides it is worth it to go up and get Watkins, he would likely need to craft a package enticing enough for the Rams, who hold the No. 2 overall pick. The team has expressed interest in trading down, but it all seems to be dependent on what Houston will do with the first pick and what kind of picks they could receive in return.

The Lions do have three picks in the top 76 of the draft and have some flexibility on Day Three with two compensatory picks in the fourth round.

Will Detroit have enough to move up and get Watkins? We'll see when May rolls around, but at this point it's clear the team is absolutely smitten with the prospect of drafting the Clemson speedster.

Follow Bryan Fischer on Twitter @BryanDFischer.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

The Lions "have put a lot of time into" scouting Clemson WR Sammy Watkins this spring and are "trying to figure if it's right for them to move up and get him," reports Dave Birkett of the Detroit Free Press.
Watkins met with both Calvin Johnson and Golden Tate during a pre-draft visit on Tuesday. General manager Martin Mayhew and coach Jim Caldwell had dinner with the Tigers' stud the night before his pro day. If Detroit wants to make a move, they'll have at least one chance, as Houston won't take Watkins at No. 1 and St. Louis has made it known that the No. 2 pick is available. The price will be large, but it doesn't figure to be nearly as prohibitive as it was when the Rams ransomed three first-round picks and more out of Washington in the RGIII deal. Detroit doesn't yet have a private workout scheduled with Watkins.

Source: Dave Birkett on Twitter

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

What do you think Crabtree had that Watkins doesn't?

Back-to-back Biletnikoff awards for one.

 

[matuski]

This is awesome.

I ask who he is going to "consistently" bump out of the top 5 and i get a handful of responses listing current WR ages.

So he won't bump them out consistently, he will just wait until half or more retire??

Who did Josh Gordon and Dez bump out of the top 5 before they were included in the list? Were you laughing when owners were not selling them because they were holding thinking they had a top guy?

My point is at some stage you have to make a decision about players entering the NFL as well as current young players in the NFL and put values on them. You also have to make decisions and make some calculated risks. No one will bat 100 percent but to shrug it off and laugh when players like Watkins come around and simply dismiss him as they hype is out of control is silly. Fantasy football is far from exact.

When slapped in the face with reason you back off a bit.

At the start of the thread you were the guy saying he is the equivalent of an Olympic Sprinter until I pointed out his times were that of an above average high-schooler.

Your last sentence is the start and the end to this. Purporting he will walk into the league as a top 5 receiver year in year out is akin to saying he is an Olympic caliber sprinter.

Watkins has a PB of 10.45 seconds in the 100 meter which he ran in 2011. Not Olympic caliber but pretty darn fast.

You are underrating how good of a prospect Watkins is and any team that drafts him will be doing so early and will be thinking that they are getting a guy that will develop into one of the tops in his position in time.

10.45 actually is olympic caliber. That time would have beaten 33 men in 2012.

I believe I already documented it would have finished well out of the medals in my state high school meet. Here

And to the above, yes 10.45 (btw I thought it was 10.59.. are we exaggerating again?) is fast but not close to US Olympic caliber.. I should have specified US. I'm sure Watkins could beat Vietnam's representative. Damn fast >< US Olympic fast.

Watkins will be damn good. He won't walk into the league and "consistently" bump off current top 5 Wrs. Damn good >< Top 5 WRs on the planet.

I'm just trying to reign in Carter's (and others) hyperbole... people are getting way ahead of themselves.

Get your #### straight before you post, so you don't have to move the goalposts next time.

Go read the link posted.

I didn't move the posts, I was assuming people had read the thread (my bad I guess) so I was sticking with the original line of discussion (in the link).

Watkins time would not medal in a Texas High school meet. If his time beats an Olympic runner from Morrocco, excuse the hell out of me for assuming others wouldn't go there.

Your link didn't explain anything. Words mean things. Use them appropriately and we understand what you mean. Use them inappropriately and we don't.

No need to reply again.

Lets stick with the fact it is wrong to say he is an Olympic caliber sprinter.

Now you guys can move on to his next super hero power and hype that.

 

[matuski]

Rotoworld:

The Lions "have put a lot of time into" scouting Clemson WR Sammy Watkins this spring and are "trying to figure if it's right for them to move up and get him," reports Dave Birkett of the Detroit Free Press.
Watkins met with both Calvin Johnson and Golden Tate during a pre-draft visit on Tuesday. General manager Martin Mayhew and coach Jim Caldwell had dinner with the Tigers' stud the night before his pro day. If Detroit wants to make a move, they'll have at least one chance, as Houston won't take Watkins at No. 1 and St. Louis has made it known that the No. 2 pick is available. The price will be large, but it doesn't figure to be nearly as prohibitive as it was when the Rams ransomed three first-round picks and more out of Washington in the RGIII deal. Detroit doesn't yet have a private workout scheduled with Watkins.

Source: Dave Birkett on Twitter

Love to see him a Lion, but I'm afraid they have to throw in the kitchen sink to get him.

 

[matuski]

What do you think Crabtree had that Watkins doesn't?

The hype thread for Crabtree was exactly this style of sensationalized claims of abilities. Good parallel.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Watkins doesn't have Olympic caliber speed (at least not US caliber) any more than Justin Hunter does, which came up in another thread.

A 10.59 is pretty fast. If Crabtree was that fast (I don't think he was able to run one before the draft - broken foot?), he would be a completely different animal and a better prospect. I've made that exact comparison before, Watkins could be what you would have if Crabtree WAS that fast. Where would Crabtree rank if he had Watkins speed?

 

[matuski]

Watkins doesn't have Olympic caliber speed (at least not US caliber) any more than Justin Hunter does, which came up in another thread.

A 10.59 is pretty fast. If Crabtree was that fast (I don't think he was able to run one before the draft - broken foot?), he would be a completely different animal and a better prospect. I've made that exact comparison before, Watkins could be what you would have if Crabtree WAS that fast. Where would Crabtree rank if he had Watkins speed?

I realize I seem like some kind of hater in the face of some of the ludicrous claims here (Olympic speed), but I'm not. Let Watkins be good or very good... even great. Lets chill out on the "faster than a speeding bullet, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound" theme..

The parallel I see are the folks putting this guy in the Calvin Johnson stratosphere, I recall I had a similar reaction in the Crabtree thread a couple years back as I do here - Just take a step back and breathe.

To answer your last question... I'd rather Crabtree was bigger with his current speed. He would be a completely different type of receiver if he were fast.

 

[werdnoynek]

Watkins doesn't have Olympic caliber speed (at least not US caliber) any more than Justin Hunter does, which came up in another thread.

A 10.59 is pretty fast. If Crabtree was that fast (I don't think he was able to run one before the draft - broken foot?), he would be a completely different animal and a better prospect. I've made that exact comparison before, Watkins could be what you would have if Crabtree WAS that fast. Where would Crabtree rank if he had Watkins speed?

I realize I seem like some kind of hater in the face of some of the ludicrous claims here (Olympic speed), but I'm not. Let Watkins be good or very good... even great. Lets chill out on the "faster than a speeding bullet, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound" theme..

The parallel I see are the folks putting this guy in the Calvin Johnson stratosphere, I recall I had a similar reaction in the Crabtree thread a couple years back as I do here - Just take a step back and breathe.

To answer your last question... I'd rather Crabtree was bigger with his current speed. He would be a completely different type of receiver if he were fast.

I can see how we can nit pick his speed on the track... but is football played on the track?? I'm of the belief that on any given Sunday, Watkins is going to be the fastest on field with pads on player out there. His acceleration is second to none when he gets the ball in his hands. We can debate his track times all we want but what's the point... all that matters is who he is on the field, and that's fast as ####.

 

[jurb26]

Watkins doesn't have Olympic caliber speed (at least not US caliber) any more than Justin Hunter does, which came up in another thread.

A 10.59 is pretty fast. If Crabtree was that fast (I don't think he was able to run one before the draft - broken foot?), he would be a completely different animal and a better prospect. I've made that exact comparison before, Watkins could be what you would have if Crabtree WAS that fast. Where would Crabtree rank if he had Watkins speed?

I realize I seem like some kind of hater in the face of some of the ludicrous claims here (Olympic speed), but I'm not. Let Watkins be good or very good... even great. Lets chill out on the "faster than a speeding bullet, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound" theme..

The parallel I see are the folks putting this guy in the Calvin Johnson stratosphere, I recall I had a similar reaction in the Crabtree thread a couple years back as I do here - Just take a step back and breathe.

To answer your last question... I'd rather Crabtree was bigger with his current speed. He would be a completely different type of receiver if he were fast.

I can see how we can nit pick his speed on the track... but is football played on the track?? I'm of the belief that on any given Sunday, Watkins is going to be the fastest on field with pads on player out there. His acceleration is second to none when he gets the ball in his hands. We can debate his track times all we want but what's the point... all that matters is who he is on the field, and that's fast as ####.

I think this is kind of the point Matuski is trying to make. This is an overboard statement. Watkins is fast, sure. No need to exaggerate it. He will not be the fastest player on the field any given Sunday. I'd bet nearly every NFl team will have a DB faster than him to be honest. That doesn't mean he is going to get run down or it will greatly hinder his game. It's just the truth. This isn't Randy Moss, a guy who will blow by NFL DBs like they are average athletes. Matuski seems to be shedding some realism into the expectations and many don't like it very much. I'm not sure why. The comps of him and an Olympic sprinter are comical. It was a foolish statement that should have just been acknowledged as such once real information was introduced, but of course it wasn't. Watkins is a good prospect, the best WR in this draft. He has good speed and great overall ability. There is no need to embellish his speed for theater.

 

[werdnoynek]

Watkins doesn't have Olympic caliber speed (at least not US caliber) any more than Justin Hunter does, which came up in another thread.

A 10.59 is pretty fast. If Crabtree was that fast (I don't think he was able to run one before the draft - broken foot?), he would be a completely different animal and a better prospect. I've made that exact comparison before, Watkins could be what you would have if Crabtree WAS that fast. Where would Crabtree rank if he had Watkins speed?

I realize I seem like some kind of hater in the face of some of the ludicrous claims here (Olympic speed), but I'm not. Let Watkins be good or very good... even great. Lets chill out on the "faster than a speeding bullet, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound" theme..

The parallel I see are the folks putting this guy in the Calvin Johnson stratosphere, I recall I had a similar reaction in the Crabtree thread a couple years back as I do here - Just take a step back and breathe.

To answer your last question... I'd rather Crabtree was bigger with his current speed. He would be a completely different type of receiver if he were fast.

I can see how we can nit pick his speed on the track... but is football played on the track?? I'm of the belief that on any given Sunday, Watkins is going to be the fastest on field with pads on player out there. His acceleration is second to none when he gets the ball in his hands. We can debate his track times all we want but what's the point... all that matters is who he is on the field, and that's fast as ####.

I think this is kind of the point Matuski is trying to make. This is an overboard statement. Watkins is fast, sure. No need to exaggerate it. He will not be the fastest player on the field any given Sunday. I'd bet nearly every NFl team will have a DB faster than him to be honest. That doesn't mean he is going to get run down or it will greatly hinder his game. It's just the truth. This isn't Randy Moss, a guy who will blow by NFL DBs like they are average athletes. Matuski seems to be shedding some realism into the expectations and many don't like it very much. I'm not sure why. The comps of him and an Olympic sprinter are comical. It was a foolish statement that should have just been acknowledged as such once real information was introduced, but of course it wasn't.Watkins is a good prospect, the best WR in this draft. He has good speed and great overall ability. There is no need to embellish his speed for theater.

I think it's clear he won't have the fastest 40 time on the field... but I believe he'll be the fastest *on field with pads on* guy. I think his long speed is good, but his acceleration is elite. He can accelerate past people and has the long speed to sustain separation. I agree it's comical to compare him to an Olympic sprinter... Olympic sprinters don't make receivers.