WR Sammy Watkins, BAL (2 Viewers)

[cstu]

@ChrisTrapasso: More impressive than the *famous* original. RT @JonahJavad: The Sammy Watkins one-handed catch. Damn... #Bills https://t.co/tzaXw74CTW

I'm trying not to have sellers remorse...

Hope you got a haul for him.

 

[Andrew74]

@ChrisTrapasso: More impressive than the *famous* original. RT @JonahJavad: The Sammy Watkins one-handed catch. Damn... #Bills https://t.co/tzaXw74CTW

I'm trying not to have sellers remorse...

Hope you got a haul for him.

1.01+1.06 for DT seemed like a good deal at the time. But damn, he looks legit.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

@ChrisTrapasso: More impressive than the *famous* original. RT @JonahJavad: The Sammy Watkins one-handed catch. Damn... #Bills https://t.co/tzaXw74CTW

I'm trying not to have sellers remorse...

Hope you got a haul for him.

1.01+1.06 for DT seemed like a good deal at the time. But damn, he looks legit.

Meh, you're fine. I love Watkins but his upside is what DT already is, so even if that happens the other guy would still have to hit on 1.06 to win the trade.

 

[GreenBaySnackers]

@ChrisTrapasso: More impressive than the *famous* original. RT @JonahJavad: The Sammy Watkins one-handed catch. Damn... #Bills https://t.co/tzaXw74CTW

I'm trying not to have sellers remorse...

Hope you got a haul for him.

1.01+1.06 for DT seemed like a good deal at the time. But damn, he looks legit.

You made the right move. That's a massive underpay for DT.

 

[GroveDiesel]

@ChrisTrapasso: More impressive than the *famous* original. RT @JonahJavad: The Sammy Watkins one-handed catch. Damn... #Bills https://t.co/tzaXw74CTW

I'm trying not to have sellers remorse...

Hope you got a haul for him.

1.01+1.06 for DT seemed like a good deal at the time. But damn, he looks legit.

Meh, you're fine. I love Watkins but his upside is what DT already is, so even if that happens the other guy would still have to hit on 1.06 to win the trade.

Agreed. DT is a top 5 WR right now. That's a fine trade.

 

[zed2283]

I was offered J.Charles for 1.1 + 1.7. Am I crazy not to take it? I know it sounds stupid, but I've had Sammy on my team (in my head) since January and have a plan for 1.7 so I think I'm emotionally invested...

 

[cstu]

I was offered J.Charles for 1.1 + 1.7. Am I crazy not to take it? I know it sounds stupid, but I've had Sammy on my team (in my head) since January and have a plan for 1.7 so I think I'm emotionally invested...

I wouldn't do it. In my startup Charles went #8 and I took Watkins #13.

 

[Milkman]

I wouldn't do that deal if you think Watkins is a top 10 WR for years to come. You're trading 6-7 years of WR1 for 2-3 years if RB1. It depends where you have Sammy rated really.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

@ChrisTrapasso: More impressive than the *famous* original. RT @JonahJavad: The Sammy Watkins one-handed catch. Damn... #Bills https://t.co/tzaXw74CTW

That's not all that difficult a catch. The ball wasn't thrown hard, and it was in the perfect position to be plucked like that. It's definitely not more impressive than the original, which had a much higher degree of difficulty.

 

[georg013]

Anyone could have made that catch. ANYONE.

 

[jurb26]

@ChrisTrapasso: More impressive than the *famous* original. RT @JonahJavad: The Sammy Watkins one-handed catch. Damn... #Bills https://t.co/tzaXw74CTW

That's not all that difficult a catch. The ball wasn't thrown hard, and it was in the perfect position to be plucked like that. It's definitely not more impressive than the original, which had a much higher degree of difficulty.

I don't know what your talking about. It's much more difficult than the first one. The first was a softy at half speed. I wasn't really impressed at all by the first catch. This one is impressive.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

@ChrisTrapasso: More impressive than the *famous* original. RT @JonahJavad: The Sammy Watkins one-handed catch. Damn... #Bills https://t.co/tzaXw74CTW

That's not all that difficult a catch. The ball wasn't thrown hard, and it was in the perfect position to be plucked like that. It's definitely not more impressive than the original, which had a much higher degree of difficulty.

Anyone could have made that catch. ANYONE.

I have a feeling we might be on our way to some new message board shtick. That is, downplaying Watkins' catches.

"It's only a model..."

 

[Adam Harstad]

@ChrisTrapasso: More impressive than the *famous* original. RT @JonahJavad: The Sammy Watkins one-handed catch. Damn... #Bills https://t.co/tzaXw74CTW

That's not all that difficult a catch. The ball wasn't thrown hard, and it was in the perfect position to be plucked like that. It's definitely not more impressive than the original, which had a much higher degree of difficulty.

I'm with jurb on this. I think the original catch looked prettier, but that's more aesthetics than degree of difficulty. The first catch was similar in form to most one-handed grabs you see- a receiver cradling the ball as it passes his body, arresting its momentum, and bringing it in. You don't often see a receiver attacking the ball with one hand before it even reaches him like Watkins did in the second video.

That first catch was visually striking- I think extending the other arm out in the opposite direction really makes the play stand out- but this more recent one is something that makes me say "you don't see that very often..."

 

[jurb26]

@ChrisTrapasso: More impressive than the *famous* original. RT @JonahJavad: The Sammy Watkins one-handed catch. Damn... #Bills https://t.co/tzaXw74CTW

That's not all that difficult a catch. The ball wasn't thrown hard, and it was in the perfect position to be plucked like that. It's definitely not more impressive than the original, which had a much higher degree of difficulty.

I'm with jurb on this. I think the original catch looked prettier, but that's more aesthetics than degree of difficulty. The first catch was similar in form to most one-handed grabs you see- a receiver cradling the ball as it passes his body, arresting its momentum, and bringing it in. You don't often see a receiver attacking the ball with one hand before it even reaches him like Watkins did in the second video.

That first catch was visually striking- I think extending the other arm out in the opposite direction really makes the play stand out- but this more recent one is something that makes me say "you don't see that very often..."

The second catch was an awkward motion that required a lot of adjustment to be made. It was also thrown much harder making the catch more difficult. He reached up and back while running the opposite direction to make the catch. He snagged it at an unconventional angle that allowed nearly no room for error. Meaning he could not use his forearm or body to help cradle the ball or control it. The downward motion to pull the ball in is also more challenging. The first he simply reached forward on a softball pass and brought it to his body. Sorry, but the first catch is one I've seen a thousand times at practices. I didn't understand people getting excited about it then and still don't now. That second catch looked similar to one Moss made as a rookie, I think it was his rookie year, vs. Arz. It made me say wow then, and still does today. These catches are not even remotely the same in difficulty IMO.

 

[matttyl]

I'd like to see him make either catch in a real game with real defense with tens of thousands of eyes on him in a stadium setting.

That said, I think the 2nd one was harder for the sole reason it was left handed (he's a rightie, correct?).

 

[werdnoynek]

Elite hands? I think so.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Elite hands? I think so.

Saw the point made on Twitter that Sammy Watkins' lack of height is wildly overrated in terms of on-field impact. Clearly he has a pretty ridiculous functional catch radius. He's catching balls much further away from his body than most taller receivers do. A 6'1" receiver who can make one-handed fingertip grabs at full extension presents a bigger target than a 6'3" receiver who can't.

 

[werdnoynek]

Elite hands? I think so.

Saw the point made on Twitter that Sammy Watkins' lack of height is wildly overrated in terms of on-field impact. Clearly he has a pretty ridiculous functional catch radius. He's catching balls much further away from his body than most taller receivers do. A 6'1" receiver who can make one-handed fingertip grabs at full extension presents a bigger target than a 6'3" receiver who can't.

In the bowl game against OSU, the annoucer was talking about how the Clemson OC says you can litterally hear the ball being plucked out of the air when he goes up and gets it.

My man crush is climbing to epic proportions...

 

[FreeBaGeL]

@ChrisTrapasso: More impressive than the *famous* original. RT @JonahJavad: The Sammy Watkins one-handed catch. Damn... #Bills https://t.co/tzaXw74CTW

That's not all that difficult a catch. The ball wasn't thrown hard, and it was in the perfect position to be plucked like that. It's definitely not more impressive than the original, which had a much higher degree of difficulty.

I am usually the biggest critic of everyone going egads over any one handed catch when many of them are actually pretty easy catches, but that one was not. No cradling at all, plucked out of the air behind him on a ball with decent velocity. Much more difficult than the majority of one handed catches.

 

[Steve Tasker]

It's really a shame he doesn't play on a team with a better quarterback.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

No successful catch is difficult because in retrospect the receiver had a 100% chance of success. Anything with a 100% chance of success is not difficult.

 

[Hoss Style]

@ChrisTrapasso: More impressive than the *famous* original. RT @JonahJavad: The Sammy Watkins one-handed catch. Damn... #Bills https://t.co/tzaXw74CTW

That's not all that difficult a catch. The ball wasn't thrown hard, and it was in the perfect position to be plucked like that. It's definitely not more impressive than the original, which had a much higher degree of difficulty.

I don't know what your talking about. It's much more difficult than the first one. The first was a softy at half speed. I wasn't really impressed at all by the first catch. This one is impressive.

I tend to agree with Jurb, here. For the short time I played WR (crappily), I'd much rather have a pass thrown ahead of me that I could snag with one hand while reaching out (with some good WR gloves). Even if it's a bullet, as long as your hands are large enough the ball practically sticks in your mitt.

The second one is behind him, he's streching up and even having to twist his body a little, not to mention it's hard as hell to track a ball with a football helmet on when the ball is no where near where you are expecting it.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The second catch was an awkward motion that required a lot of adjustment to be made. It was also thrown much harder making the catch more difficult. He reached up and back while running the opposite direction to make the catch. He snagged it at an unconventional angle that allowed nearly no room for error. Meaning he could not use his forearm or body to help cradle the ball or control it. The downward motion to pull the ball in is also more challenging. The first he simply reached forward on a softball pass and brought it to his body. Sorry, but the first catch is one I've seen a thousand times at practices. I didn't understand people getting excited about it then and still don't now.

That second catch looked similar to one Moss made as a rookie, I think it was his rookie year, vs. Arz. It made me say wow then, and still does today. These catches are not even remotely the same in difficulty IMO.

On the first catch, he was recovering from a stumble, and had to reach out for the ball far away from his body only an instant after seeing it.

On the second catch, the ball was placed perfectly to be clutched in one hand. (I don't know why you mention cradling. There was no cradling on either catch, and cradling would have made it unnecessarily more difficult, not easier.)

I played WR in college. I practiced catching balls every day, and I made a lot of one handed catches -- in practice. That second one, given where the ball was placed, looked routine to me for a left-handed person. The ball, with the nose pointing over his head, was in perfect position for exactly the kind of one-handed catch he made -- high and across his body -- and it wasn't thrown hard. Watkins saw it well before it got to him. Watkins is not left-handed as far as I know*, so that makes it more impressive. But great receivers, like great basketball players, should be able to use their left hands.

I have made both of those catches before. (Honest.) The first one was much more impressive. JMHO.

____

*If he actually is left-handed, then that first catch was even more impressive.

 

[zed2283]

I was offered J.Charles for 1.1 + 1.7. Am I crazy not to take it? I know it sounds stupid, but I've had Sammy on my team (in my head) since January and have a plan for 1.7 so I think I'm emotionally invested...

I wouldn't do it. In my startup Charles went #8 and I took Watkins #13.

I wouldn't do that deal if you think Watkins is a top 10 WR for years to come. You're trading 6-7 years of WR1 for 2-3 years if RB1. It depends where you have Sammy rated really.

I guess I should point out that I have AJ Green, J.Jones, T.Hilton at WR (start 2), and my RB's are Spiller, FJax, SJax, L.Miller, C.Michael (start 2).

Non-PPR. No flex.

 

[werdnoynek]

No successful catch is difficult because in retrospect the receiver had a 100% chance of success. Anything with a 100% chance of success is not difficult.

 

[jurb26]

The second catch was an awkward motion that required a lot of adjustment to be made. It was also thrown much harder making the catch more difficult. He reached up and back while running the opposite direction to make the catch. He snagged it at an unconventional angle that allowed nearly no room for error. Meaning he could not use his forearm or body to help cradle the ball or control it. The downward motion to pull the ball in is also more challenging. The first he simply reached forward on a softball pass and brought it to his body. Sorry, but the first catch is one I've seen a thousand times at practices. I didn't understand people getting excited about it then and still don't now.

That second catch looked similar to one Moss made as a rookie, I think it was his rookie year, vs. Arz. It made me say wow then, and still does today. These catches are not even remotely the same in difficulty IMO.

On the first catch, he was recovering from a stumble, and had to reach out for the ball far away from his body only an instant after seeing it.

On the second catch, the ball was placed perfectly to be clutched in one hand. (I don't know why you mention cradling. There was no cradling on either catch, and cradling would have made it unnecessarily more difficult, not easier.)

I played WR in college. I practiced catching balls every day, and I made a lot of one handed catches -- in practice. That second one, given where the ball was placed, looked routine to me for a left-handed person. The ball, with the nose pointing over his head, was in perfect position for exactly the kind of one-handed catch he made -- high and across his body -- and it wasn't thrown hard. Watkins saw it well before it got to him. Watkins is not left-handed as far as I know*, so that makes it more impressive. But great receivers, like great basketball players, should be able to use their left hands.

I have made both of those catches before. (Honest.) The first one was much more impressive. JMHO.

____

*If he actually is left-handed, then that first catch was even more impressive.

I'm not sure what to say here. I've played both WR and CB in college and I've made lots of 1 handed catches, seen many more. The 2nd one is far more impressive. Just the act of plucking the ball high and in one motion controlling it to a low point, his body, is far more impressive. He was fighting gravity and thus had to have complete control and cleanly plucked it in order to pull that motion off. The lower pass did not need to be plucked clean and could have rested in his hand with the assistance of a lower hand placement and upward motion to move the ball to its cradle position. This doesn't oven get into the motion portion of twisting his body to an unnatural up and back position while running forward, the fact that he had to brace for impact (there was actual defense being played in the second), he had full equipment on, ect. The first play was being run at 3/4 speed and I have no idea how you think the velocity was faster. It looked like a warm up route vs. an in game situation IMO.

 

[GreenBaySnackers]

Sammy isn't just 2 inches shorter than 6'3. He has 32 inch arms and a 34 inch verticle jump.

Dez is 6'2, 34 inch arms, 38 inch verticle Jump. Combined, that's a difference of 7.25 inches. Dez's broad jump was also 7 inches longer. Julio is 6'2 and 3/4, 33 and 3/4's arms, and a 38.5 inch verticle. 7.75 inches higher than Sammy when added up . He jumped 9 inches further than Sammy (10'6 broad vs 11'3). Both Dez and Julio have 9 and 3/4 inch hands, which are slightly larger than Sammys at 9 and 5/8s, and both are about 10 pounds heavier which will help in the red zone. Sammy also has a horrendous QB and plays on a run first team. His college stats are inflated due to playing on a gimmicky spread offense vs weak ACC competition. Most of his TD's in college involve him running wide open down the field with no defenders in close proximity. He's going to be as "Elite" as glorified Torrey Smith-type receivers can be.

 

[cstu]

Sammy isn't just 2 inches shorter than 6'3. He has 32 inch arms and a 34 inch verticke jump.

Dez is 6'2, 34 inch arms, 38 inch verticle Jump. Combined, that's a difference of 7.25 inches. Dez's broad jump was also 7 inches longer. Julio is 6'2 and 3/4, 33 and 3/4's arms, and a 38.5 inch verticle. 7.75 inches higher than Sammy when added up . He jumped 9 inches further than Sammy (10'6 broad vs 11'3). Both Dez and Julio have 9 and 3/4 inch hands, which are slightly larger than Sammys at 9 and 5/8s, and both are about 10 pounds heavier which will help in the red zone. Sammy also has a horrendous QB and plays on a run first team. His college stats are inflated due to playing on a gimmicky spread offense vs weak ACC competition. Most of his TD's in college involve him running wide open down the field with no defenders in close proximity. He's going to be as "Elite" as glorified Torrey Smith-type receivers can be.

You know how ridiculous that sounds, right?

 

[werdnoynek]

Sammy isn't just 2 inches shorter than 6'3. He has 32 inch arms and a 34 inch verticle jump.

Dez is 6'2, 34 inch arms, 38 inch verticle Jump. Combined, that's a difference of 7.25 inches. Dez's broad jump was also 7 inches longer. Julio is 6'2 and 3/4, 33 and 3/4's arms, and a 38.5 inch verticle. 7.75 inches higher than Sammy when added up . He jumped 9 inches further than Sammy (10'6 broad vs 11'3). Both Dez and Julio have 9 and 3/4 inch hands, which are slightly larger than Sammys at 9 and 5/8s, and both are about 10 pounds heavier which will help in the red zone. Sammy also has a horrendous QB and plays on a run first team. His college stats are inflated due to playing on a gimmicky spread offense vs weak ACC competition. Most of his TD's in college involve him running wide open down the field with no defenders in close proximity. He's going to be as "Elite" as glorified Torrey Smith-type receivers can be.

I wish Sammy could read this.

ETA: Tell us something we don't know... his measurements are well known to everyone in the league, yet he was still a Top 5 pick. He has special ability that cannot be quantified that Torrey Smith would likely kill for.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

They're both practiced skills. I'm guessing the first would be easier for you and the second would be easier for me, and we're both assuming that Watkins is more like us than the other person.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Sammy isn't just 2 inches shorter than 6'3. He has 32 inch arms and a 34 inch verticle jump.

Dez is 6'2, 34 inch arms, 38 inch verticle Jump. Combined, that's a difference of 7.25 inches. Dez's broad jump was also 7 inches longer. Julio is 6'2 and 3/4, 33 and 3/4's arms, and a 38.5 inch verticle. 7.75 inches higher than Sammy when added up . He jumped 9 inches further than Sammy (10'6 broad vs 11'3). Both Dez and Julio have 9 and 3/4 inch hands, which are slightly larger than Sammys at 9 and 5/8s, and both are about 10 pounds heavier which will help in the red zone. Sammy also has a horrendous QB and plays on a run first team. His college stats are inflated due to playing on a gimmicky spread offense vs weak ACC competition. Most of his TD's in college involve him running wide open down the field with no defenders in close proximity. He's going to be as "Elite" as glorified Torrey Smith-type receivers can be.

Someone had to say it.

 

[valhallan]

I didn't realize that eighth of an inch difference in hand size. Man, back to the drawing board.

 

[GreenBaySnackers]

Sammy isn't just 2 inches shorter than 6'3. He has 32 inch arms and a 34 inch verticle jump.

Dez is 6'2, 34 inch arms, 38 inch verticle Jump. Combined, that's a difference of 7.25 inches. Dez's broad jump was also 7 inches longer. Julio is 6'2 and 3/4, 33 and 3/4's arms, and a 38.5 inch verticle. 7.75 inches higher than Sammy when added up . He jumped 9 inches further than Sammy (10'6 broad vs 11'3). Both Dez and Julio have 9 and 3/4 inch hands, which are slightly larger than Sammys at 9 and 5/8s, and both are about 10 pounds heavier which will help in the red zone. Sammy also has a horrendous QB and plays on a run first team. His college stats are inflated due to playing on a gimmicky spread offense vs weak ACC competition. Most of his TD's in college involve him running wide open down the field with no defenders in close proximity. He's going to be as "Elite" as glorified Torrey Smith-type receivers can be.

I wish Sammy could read this.

ETA: Tell us something we don't know... his measurements are well known to everyone in the league, yet he was still a Top 5 pick. He has special ability that cannot be quantified that Torrey Smith would likely kill for.

And Blake Bortles was a top 3 pick...

 

[werdnoynek]

Sammy isn't just 2 inches shorter than 6'3. He has 32 inch arms and a 34 inch verticle jump.

Dez is 6'2, 34 inch arms, 38 inch verticle Jump. Combined, that's a difference of 7.25 inches. Dez's broad jump was also 7 inches longer. Julio is 6'2 and 3/4, 33 and 3/4's arms, and a 38.5 inch verticle. 7.75 inches higher than Sammy when added up . He jumped 9 inches further than Sammy (10'6 broad vs 11'3). Both Dez and Julio have 9 and 3/4 inch hands, which are slightly larger than Sammys at 9 and 5/8s, and both are about 10 pounds heavier which will help in the red zone. Sammy also has a horrendous QB and plays on a run first team. His college stats are inflated due to playing on a gimmicky spread offense vs weak ACC competition. Most of his TD's in college involve him running wide open down the field with no defenders in close proximity. He's going to be as "Elite" as glorified Torrey Smith-type receivers can be.

I wish Sammy could read this.

ETA: Tell us something we don't know... his measurements are well known to everyone in the league, yet he was still a Top 5 pick. He has special ability that cannot be quantified that Torrey Smith would likely kill for.

And Blake Bortles was a top 3 pick...

And he, in my estimation, played the best out of all rookie QB's in their first action this past weekend... what are you trying to say?

 

[Adam Harstad]

Sammy isn't just 2 inches shorter than 6'3. He has 32 inch arms and a 34 inch verticle jump.

Dez is 6'2, 34 inch arms, 38 inch verticle Jump. Combined, that's a difference of 7.25 inches. Dez's broad jump was also 7 inches longer. Julio is 6'2 and 3/4, 33 and 3/4's arms, and a 38.5 inch verticle. 7.75 inches higher than Sammy when added up . He jumped 9 inches further than Sammy (10'6 broad vs 11'3). Both Dez and Julio have 9 and 3/4 inch hands, which are slightly larger than Sammys at 9 and 5/8s, and both are about 10 pounds heavier which will help in the red zone. Sammy also has a horrendous QB and plays on a run first team. His college stats are inflated due to playing on a gimmicky spread offense vs weak ACC competition. Most of his TD's in college involve him running wide open down the field with no defenders in close proximity. He's going to be as "Elite" as glorified Torrey Smith-type receivers can be.

I'm not denying that Julio Jones has a 7+ inch advantage. I'm questioning how often Julio uses all 7 inches of that advantage. Sammy is demonstrating an ability to catch any ball that comes anywhere within his physical limits. I haven't seen Julio demonstrate that. Having an extra 7 inches isn't all that useful if you aren't actually using it.

I googled "Julio Jones one-handed catch" and it seems like every image was from the same catch. How much of Julio's 7-inch advantage was he using there? Could Watkins not have made that grab? A bit more googling turns up catches like this one. And yes, I also found this one where Julio is certainly using his extra physical ability, but that's the exception and not the rule. Julio Jones might theoretically have 7 extra inches of functional catch radius, but he rarely uses them. Compare a google image search of "Julio Jones great catch" vs. "A.J. Green great catch". You see a lot more small jumps and 90-degree elbows in the first search than in the second.

Now, Dez has that 7" advantage and pairs it with a willingness and ability to use it, but I don't think anyone is saying that Sammy Watkins is Dez Bryant. There's a reason why Dez is probably the best red-zone WR in the league right now. But functional catch radius isn't just about theoretical measurements, it's about how much of those theoretical measurements are actually getting used. Guys like Dez, Green, and Watkins maximize every single inch, which makes them play better than their raw numbers might indicate. If there's a ball being thrown X inches behind or above a receiver, it's looking like Sammy Watkins might have a better ability to haul it in than Julio Jones, measurables or no measurables.

 

[GreenBaySnackers]

Sammy isn't just 2 inches shorter than 6'3. He has 32 inch arms and a 34 inch verticle jump.

Dez is 6'2, 34 inch arms, 38 inch verticle Jump. Combined, that's a difference of 7.25 inches. Dez's broad jump was also 7 inches longer. Julio is 6'2 and 3/4, 33 and 3/4's arms, and a 38.5 inch verticle. 7.75 inches higher than Sammy when added up . He jumped 9 inches further than Sammy (10'6 broad vs 11'3). Both Dez and Julio have 9 and 3/4 inch hands, which are slightly larger than Sammys at 9 and 5/8s, and both are about 10 pounds heavier which will help in the red zone. Sammy also has a horrendous QB and plays on a run first team. His college stats are inflated due to playing on a gimmicky spread offense vs weak ACC competition. Most of his TD's in college involve him running wide open down the field with no defenders in close proximity. He's going to be as "Elite" as glorified Torrey Smith-type receivers can be.

I wish Sammy could read this.

ETA: Tell us something we don't know... his measurements are well known to everyone in the league, yet he was still a Top 5 pick. He has special ability that cannot be quantified that Torrey Smith would likely kill for.

And Blake Bortles was a top 3 pick...

And he, in my estimation, played the best out of all rookie QB's in their first action this past weekend... what are you trying to say?

I'm trying to say that being a top 5 pick doesn't make you an "Elite" receiver. The Bills bought into the hype and made a terrible move. Sammy Watkins is not a bad receiver, but my god is he overrated. Do you remember all the reporters talking about how he "shredded the combine?" It's funny because I watched the combine and thought his performance was disappointing. Tavon Austin was last years #8 overall pick, Keenan Allen went in the 3rd round. There is a lot of hype out there, and the analysts, media, and scouts all but into it. It's not even an opinion that he's the best receiver in the class, it's a "fact" and anyone who disagrees with this groupthink gets laughed at.

 

[georg013]

I missed out on the Sammy Watkins sweepstakes in one league but grabbed him in my main league. In the league that I don't have him, he is not elite IMO. He is just a glorified Torrey Smith. In the league that I do have him, he is elite. Can I get away with that?

 

[dickey moe]

Simmer down.

 

[werdnoynek]

Sammy isn't just 2 inches shorter than 6'3. He has 32 inch arms and a 34 inch verticle jump.

Dez is 6'2, 34 inch arms, 38 inch verticle Jump. Combined, that's a difference of 7.25 inches. Dez's broad jump was also 7 inches longer. Julio is 6'2 and 3/4, 33 and 3/4's arms, and a 38.5 inch verticle. 7.75 inches higher than Sammy when added up . He jumped 9 inches further than Sammy (10'6 broad vs 11'3). Both Dez and Julio have 9 and 3/4 inch hands, which are slightly larger than Sammys at 9 and 5/8s, and both are about 10 pounds heavier which will help in the red zone. Sammy also has a horrendous QB and plays on a run first team. His college stats are inflated due to playing on a gimmicky spread offense vs weak ACC competition. Most of his TD's in college involve him running wide open down the field with no defenders in close proximity. He's going to be as "Elite" as glorified Torrey Smith-type receivers can be.

I wish Sammy could read this.

ETA: Tell us something we don't know... his measurements are well known to everyone in the league, yet he was still a Top 5 pick. He has special ability that cannot be quantified that Torrey Smith would likely kill for.

And Blake Bortles was a top 3 pick...

And he, in my estimation, played the best out of all rookie QB's in their first action this past weekend... what are you trying to say?

I'm trying to say that being a top 5 pick doesn't make you an "Elite" receiver. The Bills bought into the hype and made a terrible move. Sammy Watkins is not a bad receiver, but my god is he overrated. Do you remember all the reporters talking about how he "shredded the combine?" It's funny because I watched the combine and thought his performance was disappointing. Tavon Austin was last years #8 overall pick, Keenan Allen went in the 3rd round. There is a lot of hype out there, and the analysts, media, and scouts all but into it. It's not even an opinion that he's the best receiver in the class, it's a "fact" and anyone who disagrees with this groupthink gets laughed at.

As they should.

 

[Adam Harstad]

I'm trying to say that being a top 5 pick doesn't make you an "Elite" receiver. The Bills bought into the hype and made a terrible move. Sammy Watkins is not a bad receiver, but my god is he overrated. Do you remember all the reporters talking about how he "shredded the combine?" It's funny because I watched the combine and thought his performance was disappointing. Tavon Austin was last years #8 overall pick, Keenan Allen went in the 3rd round. There is a lot of hype out there, and the analysts, media, and scouts all but into it. It's not even an opinion that he's the best receiver in the class, it's a "fact" and anyone who disagrees with this groupthink gets laughed at.

As they should.

I disagree. I love Watkins, but there were a lot of very good prospects in this class, including another receiver who went in the top 10 overall and three more that went in the first round. If I were betting on a single WR to emerge as the best in this class, it'd be Watkins, but it's not like I don't think the other guys have a fantastic chance of proving me wrong.

The analysis I disagree with isn't the "hey, another one of these elite WR prospects might wind up being better than Sammy Watkins!" type, it's the "Pssshaw, Sammy Watkins isn't an elite WR prospect!" type.

 

[werdnoynek]

I'm trying to say that being a top 5 pick doesn't make you an "Elite" receiver. The Bills bought into the hype and made a terrible move. Sammy Watkins is not a bad receiver, but my god is he overrated. Do you remember all the reporters talking about how he "shredded the combine?" It's funny because I watched the combine and thought his performance was disappointing. Tavon Austin was last years #8 overall pick, Keenan Allen went in the 3rd round. There is a lot of hype out there, and the analysts, media, and scouts all but into it. It's not even an opinion that he's the best receiver in the class, it's a "fact" and anyone who disagrees with this groupthink gets laughed at.

As they should.

I disagree. I love Watkins, but there were a lot of very good prospects in this class, including another receiver who went in the top 10 overall and three more that went in the first round. If I were betting on a single WR to emerge as the best in this class, it'd be Watkins, but it's not like I don't think the other guys have a fantastic chance of proving me wrong.

The analysis I disagree with isn't the "hey, another one of these elite WR prospects might wind up being better than Sammy Watkins!" type, it's the "Pssshaw, Sammy Watkins isn't an elite WR prospect!" type.

Notice the wink.

 

[jurb26]

I'm trying to say that being a top 5 pick doesn't make you an "Elite" receiver. The Bills bought into the hype and made a terrible move. Sammy Watkins is not a bad receiver, but my god is he overrated. Do you remember all the reporters talking about how he "shredded the combine?" It's funny because I watched the combine and thought his performance was disappointing. Tavon Austin was last years #8 overall pick, Keenan Allen went in the 3rd round. There is a lot of hype out there, and the analysts, media, and scouts all but into it. It's not even an opinion that he's the best receiver in the class, it's a "fact" and anyone who disagrees with this groupthink gets laughed at.

I agree with some of this. I don't think Watkins is an elite prospect... But he's a very good one. Elite is Green/FitzCalvin to me. Nit picky? Perhaps so. I think people like throwing the term elite around too much though. Buf made a terrible move? Umm, no. I can't get on board with that. Watkins looks like a very good player who will be such for a long time. Will he ever be elite? I don't know. I don't think so but I'm open to it happening. He's got the intangibles I look for in those elite players. He loves putting the work in to become elite at his craft. That's a big plus IMO. I do think Buf gave up too much to move up. The future first was rich for my taste but I can't call it terrible move because I just don't see that.

His combine was disappointing. I expected more, personally. I can't speak for others. Maybe they found it impressive. I think Watkins lost some explosiveness, flexibility and overall atheticsim from his freshman year to now due to weight gain. I don't know if that weight game is good or bad. Athletic ability isn't everything when it comes to playing WR, ask AJ Green or Jerry Rice.

The backing for Watkins is remarkably strong, no doubt. Any objective criticism to his game seems to be met with relentless heckling and scoff in the SP. I'm not sure why. It seems there are guys like this every year that the overall community grabs onto like a python to bait. It would be nice if we could have more open discussion on a guy like him without it getting to a boiling point.

 

[GreenBaySnackers]

I'm trying to say that being a top 5 pick doesn't make you an "Elite" receiver. The Bills bought into the hype and made a terrible move. Sammy Watkins is not a bad receiver, but my god is he overrated. Do you remember all the reporters talking about how he "shredded the combine?" It's funny because I watched the combine and thought his performance was disappointing. Tavon Austin was last years #8 overall pick, Keenan Allen went in the 3rd round. There is a lot of hype out there, and the analysts, media, and scouts all but into it. It's not even an opinion that he's the best receiver in the class, it's a "fact" and anyone who disagrees with this groupthink gets laughed at.

As they should.

I disagree. I love Watkins, but there were a lot of very good prospects in this class, including another receiver who went in the top 10 overall and three more that went in the first round. If I were betting on a single WR to emerge as the best in this class, it'd be Watkins, but it's not like I don't think the other guys have a fantastic chance of proving me wrong.

The analysis I disagree with isn't the "hey, another one of these elite WR prospects might wind up being better than Sammy Watkins!" type, it's the "Pssshaw, Sammy Watkins isn't an elite WR prospect!" type.

I'm not a film expert, but when I watch Watkins, I don't see anything that wow's me. It's a lot of wide open catches vs really bad defenses. College highlights of Dez and Justin Blackmon blow me away. I will probably be using one of my high picks on Watkins in my 2QB league, which means passing on Bortles, Bridgewater, and Evans. It's not a pick I feel good about making. If his highlight video looked like Blackmon's Oklahoma video on YouTube I'd be jumping for joy that I have the 1.01 and 1.02. There's a lot if uncertainty in this draft class.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Sammy isn't just 2 inches shorter than 6'3. He has 32 inch arms and a 34 inch verticle jump.

Dez is 6'2, 34 inch arms, 38 inch verticle Jump. Combined, that's a difference of 7.25 inches. Dez's broad jump was also 7 inches longer. Julio is 6'2 and 3/4, 33 and 3/4's arms, and a 38.5 inch verticle. 7.75 inches higher than Sammy when added up . He jumped 9 inches further than Sammy (10'6 broad vs 11'3). Both Dez and Julio have 9 and 3/4 inch hands, which are slightly larger than Sammys at 9 and 5/8s, and both are about 10 pounds heavier which will help in the red zone. Sammy also has a horrendous QB and plays on a run first team. His college stats are inflated due to playing on a gimmicky spread offense vs weak ACC competition. Most of his TD's in college involve him running wide open down the field with no defenders in close proximity. He's going to be as "Elite" as glorified Torrey Smith-type receivers can be.

I wish Sammy could read this.

ETA: Tell us something we don't know... his measurements are well known to everyone in the league, yet he was still a Top 5 pick. He has special ability that cannot be quantified that Torrey Smith would likely kill for.

And Blake Bortles was a top 3 pick...

And he, in my estimation, played the best out of all rookie QB's in their first action this past weekend... what are you trying to say?

I'm trying to say that being a top 5 pick doesn't make you an "Elite" receiver. The Bills bought into the hype and made a terrible move. Sammy Watkins is not a bad receiver, but my god is he overrated. Do you remember all the reporters talking about how he "shredded the combine?" It's funny because I watched the combine and thought his performance was disappointing. Tavon Austin was last years #8 overall pick, Keenan Allen went in the 3rd round. There is a lot of hype out there, and the analysts, media, and scouts all but into it. It's not even an opinion that he's the best receiver in the class, it's a "fact" and anyone who disagrees with this groupthink gets laughed at.

If you were trying to say that, why didn't you include that above? In case you didn't notice, many people disagree with the idea that Watkins is the best WR of this class but think he'll be a fine WR. Let's not make strawmen here.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Sammy isn't just 2 inches shorter than 6'3. He has 32 inch arms and a 34 inch verticle jump.

Dez is 6'2, 34 inch arms, 38 inch verticle Jump. Combined, that's a difference of 7.25 inches. Dez's broad jump was also 7 inches longer. Julio is 6'2 and 3/4, 33 and 3/4's arms, and a 38.5 inch verticle. 7.75 inches higher than Sammy when added up . He jumped 9 inches further than Sammy (10'6 broad vs 11'3). Both Dez and Julio have 9 and 3/4 inch hands, which are slightly larger than Sammys at 9 and 5/8s, and both are about 10 pounds heavier which will help in the red zone. Sammy also has a horrendous QB and plays on a run first team. His college stats are inflated due to playing on a gimmicky spread offense vs weak ACC competition. Most of his TD's in college involve him running wide open down the field with no defenders in close proximity. He's going to be as "Elite" as glorified Torrey Smith-type receivers can be.

No, Watkins isn't a huge WR that is going to go up and get a ton of jump balls. That role will be played by Mike Williams for the Bills. So if that's your defining feature of an elite WR, then Watkins doesn't fit that definition. But he has tremendous balance and body control, great burst, nice speed, uses his body well to gain separation or shield the ball, and he has some fantastic hands. He also is a tremendous worker.

He might not see a ton of fades in the end zone in redzone situations, but I could see him running quick slants like Welker did, or routes where he cuts in and then straight back to the sidelines. He can use his side shoulders, quickness and strong hands to give his QB windows to throw into in the redzone.

Outside of that, he has tremendous YAC ability thanks to his speed , balance and strength. His hands and body control should allow him to grab passes that most other receivers can't pull in. And despite the knock on him on his route running before the draft, I've seen pretty crisp routes from him in what little I've seen this summer.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I'm trying to say that being a top 5 pick doesn't make you an "Elite" receiver. The Bills bought into the hype and made a terrible move. Sammy Watkins is not a bad receiver, but my god is he overrated. Do you remember all the reporters talking about how he "shredded the combine?" It's funny because I watched the combine and thought his performance was disappointing. Tavon Austin was last years #8 overall pick, Keenan Allen went in the 3rd round. There is a lot of hype out there, and the analysts, media, and scouts all but into it. It's not even an opinion that he's the best receiver in the class, it's a "fact" and anyone who disagrees with this groupthink gets laughed at.

I agree with some of this. I don't think Watkins is an elite prospect... But he's a very good one. Elite is Green/FitzCalvin to me. Nit picky? Perhaps so. I think people like throwing the term elite around too much though.Buf made a terrible move? Umm, no. I can't get on board with that. Watkins looks like a very good player who will be such for a long time. Will he ever be elite? I don't know. I don't think so but I'm open to it happening. He's got the intangibles I look for in those elite players. He loves putting the work in to become elite at his craft. That's a big plus IMO. I do think Buf gave up too much to move up. The future first was rich for my taste but I can't call it terrible move because I just don't see that.

His combine was disappointing. I expected more, personally. I can't speak for others. Maybe they found it impressive. I think Watkins lost some explosiveness, flexibility and overall atheticsim from his freshman year to now due to weight gain. I don't know if that weight game is good or bad. Athletic ability isn't everything when it comes to playing WR, ask AJ Green or Jerry Rice.

The backing for Watkins is remarkably strong, no doubt. Any objective criticism to his game seems to be met with relentless heckling and scoff in the SP. I'm not sure why. It seems there are guys like this every year that the overall community grabs onto like a python to bait. It would be nice if we could have more open discussion on a guy like him without it getting to a boiling point.

I have no idea where this kind of stuff is coming from. Compared to most shark pool player discussions, the Watkins discussion has been extremely rational and mostly made up of a good calm back and forth from both sides. This idea that Watkins is some shark pool golden boy that only 2 people on the forum wouldn't marry and are completely blackballed because of it is completely made up. There are plenty of folks that dislike him and no one has held it against them in the slightest, countering with only talk of why they like Watkins themselves and saying nothing of those people having the opposite opinion.

The only thing that the Watkins side has dug its heels in on is in the idea that Watkins can never be an elite receiver because he's 6'1" instead of 6'2". That's not even to say that he WILL be an elite receiver, just that his height does not preclude him from it. I don't think that's in any way unreasonable.

 

[GreenBaySnackers]

Sammy isn't just 2 inches shorter than 6'3. He has 32 inch arms and a 34 inch verticle jump.

Dez is 6'2, 34 inch arms, 38 inch verticle Jump. Combined, that's a difference of 7.25 inches. Dez's broad jump was also 7 inches longer. Julio is 6'2 and 3/4, 33 and 3/4's arms, and a 38.5 inch verticle. 7.75 inches higher than Sammy when added up . He jumped 9 inches further than Sammy (10'6 broad vs 11'3). Both Dez and Julio have 9 and 3/4 inch hands, which are slightly larger than Sammys at 9 and 5/8s, and both are about 10 pounds heavier which will help in the red zone. Sammy also has a horrendous QB and plays on a run first team. His college stats are inflated due to playing on a gimmicky spread offense vs weak ACC competition. Most of his TD's in college involve him running wide open down the field with no defenders in close proximity. He's going to be as "Elite" as glorified Torrey Smith-type receivers can be.

No, Watkins isn't a huge WR that is going to go up and get a ton of jump balls. That role will be played by Mike Williams for the Bills. So if that's your defining feature of an elite WR, then Watkins doesn't fit that definition. But he has tremendous balance and body control, great burst, nice speed, uses his body well to gain separation or shield the ball, and he has some fantastic hands. He also is a tremendous worker. He might not see a ton of fades in the end zone in redzone situations, but I could see him running quick slants like Welker did, or routes where he cuts in and then straight back to the sidelines. He can use his side shoulders, quickness and strong hands to give his QB windows to throw into in the redzone.

Outside of that, he has tremendous YAC ability thanks to his speed , balance and strength. His hands and body control should allow him to grab passes that most other receivers can't pull in. And despite the knock on him on his route running before the draft, I've seen pretty crisp routes from him in what little I've seen this summer.

Thank you for this. This is the kind of argument I was hoping to hear someone make about why Watkins is a great WR prospect.

 

[jurb26]

I'm trying to say that being a top 5 pick doesn't make you an "Elite" receiver. The Bills bought into the hype and made a terrible move. Sammy Watkins is not a bad receiver, but my god is he overrated. Do you remember all the reporters talking about how he "shredded the combine?" It's funny because I watched the combine and thought his performance was disappointing. Tavon Austin was last years #8 overall pick, Keenan Allen went in the 3rd round. There is a lot of hype out there, and the analysts, media, and scouts all but into it. It's not even an opinion that he's the best receiver in the class, it's a "fact" and anyone who disagrees with this groupthink gets laughed at.

I agree with some of this. I don't think Watkins is an elite prospect... But he's a very good one. Elite is Green/FitzCalvin to me. Nit picky? Perhaps so. I think people like throwing the term elite around too much though.Buf made a terrible move? Umm, no. I can't get on board with that. Watkins looks like a very good player who will be such for a long time. Will he ever be elite? I don't know. I don't think so but I'm open to it happening. He's got the intangibles I look for in those elite players. He loves putting the work in to become elite at his craft. That's a big plus IMO. I do think Buf gave up too much to move up. The future first was rich for my taste but I can't call it terrible move because I just don't see that.

His combine was disappointing. I expected more, personally. I can't speak for others. Maybe they found it impressive. I think Watkins lost some explosiveness, flexibility and overall atheticsim from his freshman year to now due to weight gain. I don't know if that weight game is good or bad. Athletic ability isn't everything when it comes to playing WR, ask AJ Green or Jerry Rice.

The backing for Watkins is remarkably strong, no doubt. Any objective criticism to his game seems to be met with relentless heckling and scoff in the SP. I'm not sure why. It seems there are guys like this every year that the overall community grabs onto like a python to bait. It would be nice if we could have more open discussion on a guy like him without it getting to a boiling point.

I have no idea where this kind of stuff is coming from. Compared to most shark pool player discussions, the Watkins discussion has been extremely rational and mostly made up of a good calm back and forth from both sides. This idea that Watkins is some shark pool golden boy that only 2 people on the forum wouldn't marry and are completely blackballed because of it is completely made up. There are plenty of folks that dislike him and no one has held it against them in the slightest, countering with only talk of why they like Watkins themselves and saying nothing of those people having the opposite opinion.

The only thing that the Watkins side has dug its heels in on is in the idea that Watkins can never be an elite receiver because he's 6'1" instead of 6'2". That's not even to say that he WILL be an elite receiver, just that his height does not preclude him from it. I don't think that's in any way unreasonable.

One of these threads (maybe this one) has tdmills brining up some good and legit critiscm. Look there.

 

[smapdi]

http://simmqb.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/sammy-inside.jpg?w=360&h=476

Four: In traffic over the middle, four players jumped for a high ball. Watkins, a good three feet off the ground, came down with it.

His vertical jump looks fine there. That him out jumping 4 defenders and still coming down with the catch.

This "He's only 6'1" so he'll never elite" mentality doesn't make sense to me. He is an outstanding athlete that obviously can do everything in full pads; he's not just some shorts and a t-shirt wonder.

One: At the snap of the ball, the 6-1, 205-pound Watkins charged off the line at starting left corner Leodis McKelvin. He steamrolled McKelvin. Flattened him. As McKelvin fell, he dragged Watkins with him. Had this been a game, McKelvin would have been called for holding. Watkins was in the right, blasting McKelvin in the five-yard bump zone. And McKelvin did all he could, holding on for dear life and taking Watkins down with him.

He is the total package when it comes to WRs. He will really help to open up this offense as well. He's been named the most impressive player at TC almost every single practice.

Don't forget the Bills' also acquired Mike Williams who has looked fantastic. I guess he is catching everything and has been a nightmare one on one. So it's not like teams can just focus their defense on Watkins; the Bills have plenty of weapons.

The Bills also have one of the best stable of RB's in the league. I feel like Watkins will make a killing on play action fakes; Manuel has a big arm.

 

[Milkman]

I'm trying to say that being a top 5 pick doesn't make you an "Elite" receiver. The Bills bought into the hype and made a terrible move. Sammy Watkins is not a bad receiver, but my god is he overrated. Do you remember all the reporters talking about how he "shredded the combine?" It's funny because I watched the combine and thought his performance was disappointing. Tavon Austin was last years #8 overall pick, Keenan Allen went in the 3rd round. There is a lot of hype out there, and the analysts, media, and scouts all but into it. It's not even an opinion that he's the best receiver in the class, it's a "fact" and anyone who disagrees with this groupthink gets laughed at.

I agree with some of this. I don't think Watkins is an elite prospect... But he's a very good one. Elite is Green/FitzCalvin to me. Nit picky? Perhaps so. I think people like throwing the term elite around too much though.Buf made a terrible move? Umm, no. I can't get on board with that. Watkins looks like a very good player who will be such for a long time. Will he ever be elite? I don't know. I don't think so but I'm open to it happening. He's got the intangibles I look for in those elite players. He loves putting the work in to become elite at his craft. That's a big plus IMO. I do think Buf gave up too much to move up. The future first was rich for my taste but I can't call it terrible move because I just don't see that.

His combine was disappointing. I expected more, personally. I can't speak for others. Maybe they found it impressive. I think Watkins lost some explosiveness, flexibility and overall atheticsim from his freshman year to now due to weight gain. I don't know if that weight game is good or bad. Athletic ability isn't everything when it comes to playing WR, ask AJ Green or Jerry Rice.

The backing for Watkins is remarkably strong, no doubt. Any objective criticism to his game seems to be met with relentless heckling and scoff in the SP. I'm not sure why. It seems there are guys like this every year that the overall community grabs onto like a python to bait. It would be nice if we could have more open discussion on a guy like him without it getting to a boiling point.

I have no idea where this kind of stuff is coming from. Compared to most shark pool player discussions, the Watkins discussion has been extremely rational and mostly made up of a good calm back and forth from both sides. This idea that Watkins is some shark pool golden boy that only 2 people on the forum wouldn't marry and are completely blackballed because of it is completely made up. There are plenty of folks that dislike him and no one has held it against them in the slightest, countering with only talk of why they like Watkins themselves and saying nothing of those people having the opposite opinion.

The only thing that the Watkins side has dug its heels in on is in the idea that Watkins can never be an elite receiver because he's 6'1" instead of 6'2". That's not even to say that he WILL be an elite receiver, just that his height does not preclude him from it. I don't think that's in any way unreasonable.

It doesn't preclude him from it but it severely hurts his chances. He's got a chance to be the best in this class along with 3-4 other wr. He's probably the least likely to bust but WR's Evans and Matthews have higher ceilings.