WR/TE JJ Arcega-Whiteside, SEA (2 Viewers)

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Montgomery ran a 4.65, JJAW 4.49. One is significantly slower than the other. I find it interesting some seem willing to overlook Montgomerys plodder numbers and will him to top 12 potential, but might call JJAW slow. 

Uh, YOU called JJAW slow.  

Jacobs has interesting potential and I have been back and forth on him. I've settled on I think he will bust. If he were with a better coach on a better team.maybe that's different but I wont play the what if game. Hes on the raiders and I have a feeling he gets beat to hell and ends up injury prone. 

That’s possible. Also possible is Gruden runs him into the ground & he gets back up & takes the next handoff. 

Like I said - the good news is we’ll see exactly whether Jacobs is a bust or not in just a few days. 

Also,  “plodder” is not a term I’ve ever heard to describe Montgomery. He’s a dynamic back who has elusiveness. Plodders plod. They don’t evade tackles, they’re not shifty & they aren’t usually adept receivers. 

It really makes one question your talent evaluation when you casually throw out disparaging terms that don’t actually apply to a player.  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

The other bad news here is that Jacobs's line is banged up per the Raider thread. I think they're missing two starting guards. 

They are, but that doesn’t make Jacobs a bust. 

I’m probably lower on the Raiders than most, but I try to stay realistic. Jacobs is going to touch the ball a lot. If he’s as good in the NFL as he’s looked over his career, he’ll be a valuable fantasy asset, banged up guards or not. 

Plus the Raiders have TyWill & AB, plus Waller who’s a sneaky good TE...that should open up holes while they stretch a defense. In the least defenses can’t stack the box against him. 

 

[rockaction]

They are, but that doesn’t make Jacobs a bust. 

I’m probably lower on the Raiders than most, but I try to stay realistic. Jacobs is going to touch the ball a lot. If he’s as good in the NFL as he’s looked over his career, he’ll be a valuable fantasy asset, banged up guards or not. 

Plus the Raiders have TyWill & AB, plus Waller who’s a sneaky good TE...that should open up holes while they stretch a defense. In the least defenses can’t stack the box against him. 

I was just passing along info. It says nothing about his ability at all. Will it affect his production? Yes. But "bust" is a pretty strong term that takes a couple of years to actually ascertain. 

I just drafted him as my RB2 at 4.01 in a redraft league. I'm a believer. 

 

[Interseptopus]

Uh, YOU called JJAW slow.  

That’s possible. Also possible is Gruden runs him into the ground & he gets back up & takes the next handoff. 

Like I said - the good news is we’ll see exactly whether Jacobs is a bust or not in just a few days. 

Also,  “plodder” is not a term I’ve ever heard to describe Montgomery. He’s a dynamic back who has elusiveness. Plodders plod. They don’t evade tackles, they’re not shifty & they aren’t usually adept receivers. 

It really makes one question your talent evaluation when you casually throw out disparaging terms that don’t actually apply to a player.  

He isnt a burner. 4.5 is about average IMO. but the narrative is hes slow. sure, compared to parris Campbell or Hollywood. 

I didnt call Montgomery a plodder, I said he has plodder numbers. 

As I said in my edit above:

One reason why Montgomery broke so many tackles was because he was hit in the backfield so often. The vast minority of his broken tackles were at the second level. It was one of the biggest negatives for him- hes slow to the 2nd level. I think Montgomery is a glorified Blount, which is fine and he will have fantasy value, but its capped. 

I can agree he has more passing game potential than someone like Blount, but I dont see him as a huge fantasy asset. I think he will be an excellent rb2, but I dont see him in the rb1 category for dynasty. especially with some very special talent in the 2020 class. I see JJAW being a dynasty star

I would rather take a potential star than a meh rb in a poor class. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I can agree he has more passing game potential than someone like Blount, but I dont see him as a huge fantasy asset. I think he will be an excellent rb2, but I dont see him in the rb1 category for dynasty. especially with some very special talent in the 2020 class. I see JJAW being a dynasty star

I would rather take a potential star than a meh rb in a poor class. 

I’m not down on JJAW (trying to figure out who to drop for him, actually, as I could use an upside WR on my bench in redraft) but I think you’re woefully underestimating Montgomery. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

One reason why Montgomery broke so many tackles was because he was hit in the backfield so often. The vast minority of his broken tackles were at the second level. It was one of the biggest negatives for him- hes slow to the 2nd level. I think Montgomery is a glorified Blount, which is fine and he will have fantasy value, but its capped. 

As for this, why does it matter where he broke 100+ tackles a year, twice? 

Is it Montgomery’s fault the OL was leaky?

would you have preferred he didn’t break those tackles in the backfield?

it’s weird because football people describe that as an asset where you seem to indicate it as a negative. 

 

[Interseptopus]

As for this, why does it matter where he broke 100+ tackles a year, twice? 

Is it Montgomery’s fault the OL was leaky?

would you have preferred he didn’t break those tackles in the backfield?

it’s weird because football people describe that as an asset where you seem to indicate it as a negative. 

it's an inflated stat is what I'm getting at. it's clear we disagree, and thats fine

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

it's an inflated stat is what I'm getting at. it's clear we disagree, and thats fine

But he did break/force a miss on those 100+ tackles 

how is it inflated? 

We can disagree about a lot of things, but a literal number of missed/broken tackles isn’t one of them. It is what it is. 

I’m perplexed as to how that’s a knock on Montgomery & not, you know, a significant asset for an NFL running back.  

 

[Slapdash]

They are, but that doesn’t make Jacobs a bust. 

I’m probably lower on the Raiders than most, but I try to stay realistic. Jacobs is going to touch the ball a lot. If he’s as good in the NFL as he’s looked over his career, he’ll be a valuable fantasy asset, banged up guards or not. 

Plus the Raiders have TyWill & AB, plus Waller who’s a sneaky good TE...that should open up holes while they stretch a defense. In the least defenses can’t stack the box against him. 

At least in redraft, I try to stay away from even good backs that are on bad teams with a bad line. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

At least in redraft, I try to stay away from even good backs that are on bad teams with a bad line. 

I usually do as well, but it’s hard to pass up a 20+ touch a week running back in the third or fourth round where Jacobs is being drafted. I think he’s an outstanding redraft value this year. 

 

[Interseptopus]

But he did break/force a miss on those 100+ tackles 

how is it inflated? 

We can disagree about a lot of things, but a literal number of missed/broken tackles isn’t one of them. It is what it is. 

I’m perplexed as to how that’s a knock on Montgomery & not, you know, a significant asset for an NFL running back.  

You can look at the raw stat of broken tackles, or you can peel that onion back to really take a peek. 

 While Montgomery is the top back in the class in missed tackles forced per carry (0.44), exactly 85 percent of those missed tackles came through either power or elusiveness. Montgomery’s lack of short-area burst and speed on his bigger frame significantly limited his ability to accelerate to the second-level and create in crowded interior spaces. On his charted carries, Montgomery created just 2.89 yards per attempt in between the tackles — by far the worst clip in the class. 

It's great that he has missed tackles but I have significant concerns about being able to create yards. You can break all the tackles you want, but it doesnt help if it doesnt create more yards.I dont get points for broken tackles. if you do in your leagues, then yes hes going to be great 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

You can look at the raw stat of broken tackles, or you can peel that onion back to really take a peek. 

It's great that he has missed tackles but I have significant concerns about being able to create yards. You can break all the tackles you want, but it doesnt help if it doesnt create more yards.I dont get points for broken tackles. if you do in your leagues, then yes hes going to be great 

An NFL caliber OL will certainly help him to create yards.

according to Bears defensive players he’s been carving up the Bears D regularly in practice. 

Maybe you’re looking at the wrong onion. 

 

[barackdhouse]

I also have JJAW as the #1 WR in this class, but I would probably take Montgomery first. Not the least reason is that maybe I can move back up to get both, and JJAW is definitely going later, although it looks like he is in the first round now.

Montgomery is slippery as heck and no he isn't going to be busting 60 yard TDs but I see a lot of chunk gainers, red zone TDs, and receptions. I see him as a low end RB1/high end RB2 and most of my rosters could use that.

 

[Interseptopus]

An NFL caliber OL will certainly help him to create yards.

according to Bears defensive players he’s been carving up the Bears D regularly in practice. 

Maybe you’re looking at the wrong onion. 

I cant help myself

 

[jm192]

Came looking for the JJAW thread seem to have stumbled into the Montgomery thread haha

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I cant help myself

Yeah,  but I’m talking about the Bears starting defense saying he was running through them.

there’s video of it. They are actually trying hard to stop him. 

You can bank on the fact that those guys take pride in what they do & don’t want a rookie to make them look bad. 

Your offhanded dismissal of everything we’ve seen to date about Montgomery in favor of some preconceived narrative is baffling. 

So far Montgomery has been very impressive. We’ll see what happens when games count, but I’m listening to what observers in Chicago who know a lot more than me about football have said. IMO you’re vastly underestimating Montgomery’s ability. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Came looking for the JJAW thread seem to have stumbled into the Montgomery thread haha

Topics evolved. This one did when Dr Dan said he’d take JJAW over any rookie. 

It could have stopped there but he keeps digging deeper trying to justify that. 

 

 

[Interseptopus]

Came looking for the JJAW thread seem to have stumbled into the Montgomery thread haha

If it's a debate of who do you take first, JJAW or Jacobs or Montgomery, then it's not JJAW. 

If I have a top 2 pick I'm likely trading down to take JJAW and a back I think has more upside. If I cant trade down then of course i take Jacobs or Montgomery ahead of JJAW. Just because I have a guy ranked #1 doesnt mean that's where he should go in a draft. 

Long term I think JJAWs upside far exceeds any of the backs in this class

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

If it's a debate of who do you take first, JJAW or Jacobs or Montgomery, then it's not JJAW. 

If I have a top 2 pick I'm likely trading down to take JJAW and a back I think has more upside. If I cant trade down then of course i take Jacobs or Montgomery ahead of JJAW. Just because I have a guy ranked #1 doesnt mean that's where he should go in a draft. 

Long term I think JJAWs upside far exceeds any of the backs in this class

It’s a fair take - you get who you believe in. 

I think it’s smart to trade down & maximize value. 

 

[Amused to Death]

I took him as the second WR off the board in my rookie draft. Harry was the first.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I grabbed JAWW - just searched around & it sounds like they’re going to use him in RZ sets.

now I’m hoping they move on from Agholor.  

for now at worst he’s like a GL RB value-wise. But as some here have said, Jeffery doesn’t have the best health track record, so...

i appreciate everyone’s input on him in here. 

 

[hamsterdam]

Alshon limited today with a biceps injury.

 

[Faust]

 

[Faust]

JJ Arcega-Whiteside and the art of not overthinking

 

[Faust]

JJ Arcega-Whiteside's size, athleticism, and versatility a huge factor in Eagles only carrying 2 TE's

 

[Faust]

Doug Pederson’s right to throw Miles Sanders, JJ Arcega-Whiteside into Philly’s fire

 

[Interseptopus]

its happening

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

its happening

Still leaving him on my bench until BYE/injury.

Or might deal him for RB help if he blows up early. 

 

[Interseptopus]

Still leaving him on my bench until BYE/injury.

Or might deal him for RB help if he blows up early. 

I'll never trade him but I will bench him

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I'll never trade him but I will bench him

As a Wentz owner i’m Mighty pleased to hear about all the toys he has to play with. 

 

[barackdhouse]

Still leaving him on my bench until BYE/injury.

Alshon limited today with a biceps injury.

I love me some Alshon Jeffery as a Bears fan. But he is always hurt. In my opinion he is much better than a JAG. But not a ton better. Not special. I think JJAW might be. If there are weeks Jeffery sits, Ertz is the only receiver out targeting JJAW. But yeah I'm going to need to see it first. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I love me some Alshon Jeffery as a Bears fan. But he is always hurt. In my opinion he is much better than a JAG. But not a ton better. Not special. I think JJAW might be. If there are weeks Jeffery sits, Ertz is the only receiver out targeting JJAW. But yeah I'm going to need to see it first. 

I meant injury to one of my starters, not the Eagles.

unless you think I should start him over Adams/Hill/ACooper/Lockett? 

 

[barackdhouse]

I meant injury to one of my starters, not the Eagles.

unless you think I should start him over Adams/Hill/ACooper/Lockett? 

I can see a world where I would start him over Cooper or Lockett, but not anytime soon. Adams and Lockett both on bye week 11 I believe. I'm not counting on JJAW this year but there are paths to his relevance this year. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I can see a world where I would start him over Cooper or Lockett, but not anytime soon. Adams and Lockett both on bye week 11 I believe. I'm not counting on JJAW this year but there are paths to his relevance this year. 

Right - which is why I said “BYE/Injury” - in the post you quoted.  

 

[jm192]

The writing is on the wall.  

Jackson broken finger.

Jeffery who is always hurt has a bicep injury.  

JJAW will finish as a WR3 this year, and the path to greatness is just getting started.

 

[barackdhouse]

The writing is on the wall.  

Jackson broken finger.

Jeffery who is always hurt has a bicep injury.  

JJAW will finish as a WR3 this year, and the path to greatness is just getting started.

And Agholor sucks

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Boy. I posted similarly in the Preston Williams thread. I have both JJAW and Preston in about 15/18 redrafts. Wpuld be wonderful if they both could hit. A lot of big money leagues too. 

 

[GoBirds]

You guys think he could be big in not just dynasty but redraft?

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

You guys think he could be big in not just dynasty but redraft?

Anything is possible! We know Agholor is just average. Alshon is great at times but gets hurt often. Ertz will get his. DeSean is the only other uncertainty. All JJAW needs is opportunities.  It’s the NFL so he will get opportunities !

 

[Faust]

Heredity or environment? Eagles’ J.J. Arcega-Whiteside has them both

 

[kittenmittens]

JJAW has an 87th percentile speed score. 

That is not slow at all.  Not even a little. 

 

[Dezbelief]

You guys think he could be big in not just dynasty but redraft?

Yes but probably not while Alshon is starting. 

 

[jm192]

You guys think he could be big in not just dynasty but redraft?

I always thought he'd see a few chances this year.  Jeffery can't stay healthy.  Now before the week 1 game we've got a bicep issue.  

I don't think he'll be a week to week starter.  But if Jeffery is known to be out, JJAW should get pretty solid opportunities.  And if he shows enough in a couple of games, they'll have a hard time taking him back off the field.  

 

[DJackson10]

I grabbed JAWW - just searched around & it sounds like they’re going to use him in RZ sets.

now I’m hoping they move on from Agholor.  

for now at worst he’s like a GL RB value-wise. But as some here have said, Jeffery doesn’t have the best health track record, so...

i appreciate everyone’s input on him in here. 

A lot of Eagles fans have been ready to move on from Agholor for awhile. Honestly after that great season during the SB year Howie should've looked at what he could've gotten for him or used him as a trade chip to move up in the draft that year. 

Jeffrey and Jackson don't have the best track record health wise and Philly sees NA as a strictly slot guy anyway. So either of those two go down JJAWW will get his 

 

[DJackson10]

JJAW has an 87th percentile speed score. 

That is not slow at all.  Not even a little. 

He's deceivingly fast. I went to the open practice and I was confused why scouts and people said he wasn't really fast. He's not DeSean Fast but the dude has speed for his size. 

 

[RickyRolled]

He's basically free in the leagues I'm involved in. Had my eye on him all winter, but didn't have to act fast as there was ZERO buzz, relatively. Grabbed him in my last draft (14-teams). In Dynasty just dropped Coutee for him and feel elated to have that limping embodiment of worry out of my head. 

I think he'll have a couple- few double digit ffp weeks, this year even. Might even surpass numbers projected for Agholor and Goeddert. 

Upward and onward with JJ!

 

[Interseptopus]

He's basically free in the leagues I'm involved in. Had my eye on him all winter, but didn't have to act fast as there was ZERO buzz, relatively. Grabbed him in my last draft (14-teams). In Dynasty just dropped Coutee for him and feel elated to have that limping embodiment of worry out of my head. 

I think he'll have a couple- few double digit ffp weeks, this year even. Might even surpass numbers projected for Agholor and Goeddert. 

Upward and onward with JJ!

he was on the ww in dynasty? do you not have a rookie draft?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

He's basically free in the leagues I'm involved in. Had my eye on him all winter, but didn't have to act fast as there was ZERO buzz, relatively. Grabbed him in my last draft (14-teams). In Dynasty just dropped Coutee for him and feel elated to have that limping embodiment of worry out of my head. 

I think he'll have a couple- few double digit ffp weeks, this year even. Might even surpass numbers projected for Agholor and Goeddert. 

Upward and onward with JJ!

He’s free in dynasty leagues? He was a late first round, early second round pick in all five of my leagues (and I believe that was the consensus). And the thought of him being on the waiver wire is mind blowing to me. How is that possible?

 

[GoBirds]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001051675/article/roundup-redskins-te-jordan-reed-out-sunday

Interesting move with Alshon, making his salary next year guaranteed may not be the best news for JJ. 

 

[Interseptopus]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001051675/article/roundup-redskins-te-jordan-reed-out-sunday

Interesting move with Alshon, making his salary next year guaranteed may not be the best news for JJ. 

it slightly lessens the long term Outlook but I'm not worried about it. 

wonder if they are making room to make another run at melvin gordon