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WR Tee Higgins, CIN (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
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KellysHeroes
Footballguy
damm, getting re-tagged is going to be expensive. It won't be cheaper to just re-sign him?
brewer
Footballguy
Certainly, but for how many years, you have Hendrickson and Chase to worry about as well? How much can you guarantee Tee for how long and what his he willing to accept?
Burrow and Chase are not going anywhere, it's hard to see them paying all 3 long term.
He’ll make more per year on an extension than on the tag but for at least year, maybe more, he’d have a lower cap hit on an extension even if he’s getting paid a lot more.
I don’t believe they have any intention of him actually playing on the tag.
well, if I were a WR needy team I'd be looking long and hard at the possibility of signing this guy.
but I can see why Cincy doesnt wanna do a long term deal. too many mouths to feed between him Burrow and Chase.
and the team probably should be drafting another guy for the line to keep Burrow from getting too many hits. A loss of Higgins may cause the team to pivot and draft a WR instead
Big Nate
Footballguy
For him football wise staying in CIN is likely his best option. He could go somewhere that has a terrible QB and horrible offense. We know Tee is a great fit in CIN and a great asset to that offense. It is a win/win for him and CIN if he can stay - especially fantasy wise.
we have said that about lots of players. and some will listen to the advice. others will chase the money.
I fully agree Higgins likely puts up his best stats if he stays. But hes also a player driven by ego. Maybe he doesnt wanna be the #2 WR even on a very good team. if he wants to be THE man, hes moving on. If he wants to get PAID, hes likely moving on. I know Cincy can match any offer, but there may be an offer out there they cannot match. That's the risk you take.
Just a small thing to mention if you are trying to handicap Tee staying in Cincy.
Tobin talked extensively yesterday about wanting to extend Tee on a long term deal(as well as others).
Tee, who had not sent a tweet in a few weeks, tweeted out
, which the young people tell me means lies.
Tobin talked extensively yesterday about wanting to extend Tee on a long term deal(as well as others).
Tee, who had not sent a tweet in a few weeks, tweeted out
, which the young people tell me means lies.Tobin sounded annoyed or frustrated or both. Guy must have answered Tee re-signing questions for a few years now so I totally get it.Just a small thing to mention if you are trying to handicap Tee staying in Cincy.
Tobin talked extensively yesterday about wanting to extend Tee on a long term deal(as well as others).
Tee, who had not sent a tweet in a few weeks, tweeted out
Just wanted to add that.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Tobin sounded annoyed or frustrated or both. Guy must have answered Tee re-signing questions for a few years now so I totally get it.Just a small thing to mention if you are trying to handicap Tee staying in Cincy.
Tobin talked extensively yesterday about wanting to extend Tee on a long term deal(as well as others).
Tee, who had not sent a tweet in a few weeks, tweeted out
Just wanted to add that.
Must be exhausting answering questions about a top shelf WR that your STARBOY qb has publicly been crying about getting signed, and your cheap team refuses to do it for him, and basically anyone else.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
I'd imagine Tobin was being very honest about wanting to sign Higgins to a long term contract. Even aside from what his star QB wants, he's not dumb and recognizes Tee is a very good WR. He probably just doesn't think he's $25mil a year good. Especially when the guy only played 24 of the past 34 games. Especially when he already has arguably the best WR in the league on his team. Especially considering his team has enough other holes to fill/pay on both sides of the ball.
It's easy to point to some historical data and call the Bengals cheap, and I won't debate them because I'd likely agree to a large extent on most points. But I think we need to reassess stances like this when new data comes in. They made Joe Burrow the third highest paid QB in the league, and I believe the second highest in guaranteed money. They've also said they are going to make Chase the highest paid non-QB in the league several times now. I'll take my own advice and adjust my stance if they don't follow through on that; but I think the Bengals are cheap knock is something we can't really just throw around anymore considering those last two points. It doesn't make me, or the Bengals, correct; but I'd agree wholeheartedly with the fact Tee is not worth what his current market price is being suggested as. I don't think that's some wild take to have. Feels much more likely it's some salty/nervous fans and/or Higgins fantasy owners to announce with such conviction that he definitely is despite all the other mitigating circumstances.
The organization is 40-27 the past four seasons with 5 playoff wins. Can argue they are falling short of expectations. But considering they were 19-44-1 with not even a playoff appearance the four seasons prior, I'd say they aren't in the running for most incompetent franchise in the league either. Probably safe to assume they have at least half an idea what they are doing. If they have another year at .500 and miss the playoffs again in 25 I'd understand it a little more. But even then, I have a feeling I won't be saying "oh man, it's totally because they didn't have Tee Higgins!".
It's easy to point to some historical data and call the Bengals cheap, and I won't debate them because I'd likely agree to a large extent on most points. But I think we need to reassess stances like this when new data comes in. They made Joe Burrow the third highest paid QB in the league, and I believe the second highest in guaranteed money. They've also said they are going to make Chase the highest paid non-QB in the league several times now. I'll take my own advice and adjust my stance if they don't follow through on that; but I think the Bengals are cheap knock is something we can't really just throw around anymore considering those last two points. It doesn't make me, or the Bengals, correct; but I'd agree wholeheartedly with the fact Tee is not worth what his current market price is being suggested as. I don't think that's some wild take to have. Feels much more likely it's some salty/nervous fans and/or Higgins fantasy owners to announce with such conviction that he definitely is despite all the other mitigating circumstances.
The organization is 40-27 the past four seasons with 5 playoff wins. Can argue they are falling short of expectations. But considering they were 19-44-1 with not even a playoff appearance the four seasons prior, I'd say they aren't in the running for most incompetent franchise in the league either. Probably safe to assume they have at least half an idea what they are doing. If they have another year at .500 and miss the playoffs again in 25 I'd understand it a little more. But even then, I have a feeling I won't be saying "oh man, it's totally because they didn't have Tee Higgins!".
I am of the opinion Tee will get over $30M if he's truly free due to so much cap surplus right now and sort of a lean FA pool, and of course fact I consider him the most talented young WR to ever hit UFA. That's all if he hit UFA, would guess if Bengals struggle to extend him they will hold his tag rights while they work out a trade and the compensation another team has to give the Bengals could make them less aggressive on their offer to Tee.
Interesting negotiations for Tobin/Bengals when Tee and Chase have the same agent.
I've actually argued a few times the Bengals are not cheap. They just don't have the deep pockets other teams possess. IIRC they had to sell naming rights to their stadium right after or around same time frame extended Burrow. When I met my wife in college she kept telling me I was cheap and I kept telling her that I'm not, I'm just poor and there is a difference. That's the Bengals relative to other teams. Mike Brown is of course not poor and has a net worth close to $4 billion but that worth is tied up in the Bengals and I'd guess their actual cash flow is the worst or bottom 2-3 teams in the league.
What Burrow has suggested the Bengals to do is structure these contracts similar to how the Eagles did with most of their big money extensions. Which is use tons of void years on idea the cap will just keep going up or worse case you just have to do a reset many years down the road. You have to put in fairly heavy guarantees and spread the hits out. I'm honestly not sure Mike Brown has the wallet or stomach to do that and if not I think it's more what I'd call being financially prudent then cheap. Maybe some don't see the difference. Even the Eagles recently sold off an ownership share and I had heard part of that reason was a need to increase cash flow and unlike the Bengals they got ahead of their extensions instead behind like the Bengals which helped them get some better deals.
Interesting negotiations for Tobin/Bengals when Tee and Chase have the same agent.
I've actually argued a few times the Bengals are not cheap. They just don't have the deep pockets other teams possess. IIRC they had to sell naming rights to their stadium right after or around same time frame extended Burrow. When I met my wife in college she kept telling me I was cheap and I kept telling her that I'm not, I'm just poor and there is a difference. That's the Bengals relative to other teams. Mike Brown is of course not poor and has a net worth close to $4 billion but that worth is tied up in the Bengals and I'd guess their actual cash flow is the worst or bottom 2-3 teams in the league.
What Burrow has suggested the Bengals to do is structure these contracts similar to how the Eagles did with most of their big money extensions. Which is use tons of void years on idea the cap will just keep going up or worse case you just have to do a reset many years down the road. You have to put in fairly heavy guarantees and spread the hits out. I'm honestly not sure Mike Brown has the wallet or stomach to do that and if not I think it's more what I'd call being financially prudent then cheap. Maybe some don't see the difference. Even the Eagles recently sold off an ownership share and I had heard part of that reason was a need to increase cash flow and unlike the Bengals they got ahead of their extensions instead behind like the Bengals which helped them get some better deals.
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I'm unsure what you mean by "backfire"?
If another team signs him, that team has to give CIN TWO FIRST ROUND PICKS! Yikes!
If he gets no offer, then he plays on the tag unless he and CIN come to agreement. Even if another team give him an offer, he's not obligated to accept it, but no one is offering top money -and- TWO FIRSTS. Maybe he accepts another team's offer conditionally and that team and CIN work out a trade, like "just" one first round pick.
my guess is that he winds up playing on the tag and gets "injured" during the season and "misses" 5-7 games. He could just hold out, period, and play the necessary 6-7 games at the end of the year to get one year credit, but I'm guessing he just takes games off during the season.
I do NOT want my Denver Broncos to pursue him
Anarchy99
Footballguy
This is the part that doesn't make sense to me. All teams can do the same things to make money . . . naming rights, personal seat licenses, merchandising, signage, sponsorships, advertising, a portion of ticket sales, concessions, parking, etc. Last year, the Bengals generated $146.5 million on their own to go along with $402.5 million in revenue sharing from the league in terms of their cut of the league's broadcasting, sponsorships, and licensing revenue. That's $549 million. The salary cap was $255.4 million.
For argument's sake, let's say that the total salary cap adds up to $1 billion over a 4-year period. "Not having deep pockets" should not make any difference. The total amount of revenue each team generates is more than ample to cover that. The argument that owners don't have the money to dole out millions of dollars in signing bonuses also doesn't really apply. Let's say a team signs multiple players in free agency or signs their own players to extensions that add up to $100 million in signing bonuses (ie, due RIGHT NOW). That might be a tough pill to swallow in the moment, but all that comes out of that $1 billion they have to pay across 4 years. Essentially, they just reduced the remaining total they have to pay out in that period down to $900 million for the next 4 years. It works the same for every franchise.
Teams and owners with "deeper pockets" don't have ways to spend more. The Cowboys generated a total of $1.2 billion last year between their own efforts and their cut of the league revenue. They made twice as much as the Bengals . . . but they still can't spend more than $1 billion over 4 years (or whatever the actual dollars work out to). Football is not like baseball or basketball. It's a hard cap. Yes, Dallas could theoretically spend $400 million in actual dollars to sign players in one season (and space out the cap hit across future seasons) . . . but they can't spend more in the aggregate than any other team. Put another way, a 10-gallon jug only holds 10 gallons. Teams can't shell out $2 billion to players when the cap in that time when the cap across that time was $1 billion.
Having "deep pockets" doesn't necessarily help you. New England made $712 million last year. They haven't spent a ton in signing bonuses or guarantees lately and had so few players under contract that they have a boatload of cap space now. They will be close to $130 million in cap room heading into free agency. Over the last few years, they've had trouble attracting players to come to New England, the taxes are high, and they have to find ways to spend the money they have available. They ended up having to spend $330 million to re-sign 8 or 9 of their own free agents last year . . . even with that they still have the most cap space of any team.
Bottom line, some teams have plenty of cap space, some teams have very little. How they spend their money and allocate the salary cap hits varies by team. Not sure that having deep pockets has much to do with it. As far as the Bengals go, only they can decide whether they want two WR taking up a combined $70M in AAV. Historically, no team has done that before. They might be the first.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I don't think many people expect Higgins to actually play on the franchise tag this year. If it gets to the point where the two sides can't work something out, they will probably let him try to broker a contract deal with another team and work on a trade. It's highly unlikely a team would pony up 2 first round picks and a $140 million contract (ie sign him as a tagged free agent). The team acquiring him would pay less than that in terms of draft picks . . . could be a 2nd and a 5th and a player or something like that. IMO, Tee will play somewhere on a new deal . . . who knows if it's with the Bengals.
There is a difference between being independently wealthy enough to purchase a team fora few billion versus having all of your wealth almost entirely in the team. Cash flow being one of those major differences.
Football has a hard cap but not a hard cap on actual cash spending.
Not sure what else I can say, some owners have a lot more cash to structure deals that require more cash spending then other owners, the types of structure that require larger guarantees and create cap space. Not every team chooses to go this route that has that kind of cash, I'm saying it's hard for the Bengals to spend like teams like Eagles, Browns and SF spends and that's not because they are cheap but because they it's a struggle to have the cash flow to do that.
I'm pretty sure that all guaranteed money goes into an escrow account. So if the team/owner doesn't have the cash available, then that becomes a problem in structuring contracts.
Having Walmart own my Broncos means there will never ever be a cash flow issue. I think Penner is just wanting our GM to be fiscally responsible since our GM made some horrible contracts in recent years.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I get that the Bengals don't make as much as other franchises, but it's not like teams that have the most revenue have the best records or teams that have limited revenue don't win. Last year, the Bills and Lions made about as much as the Bengals did. NE, NYG, NYJ, and LVR were near the top.
The Bengals are in a quandary because they need to pay two receivers top of the market money. That's the crux of it. Based on AAV, Chase, Higgins, and Burrow would account for $125 million in AAV. I get the cap maneuvering doesn't have the cap hits fall like that, but that still is a lot to be responsible for in terms of only 3 players.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
The idea that some teams have less available funds than others is a little bit untrue. Each team should have enough money to sign whomever they want (while remaining under the cap, of course). The debate is how much profit the owners want to keep. To wit...
The NFL distributes a significant portion of its revenue equally among all teams:
Teams also generate local revenue, which they keep:
The NFL distributes a significant portion of its revenue equally among all teams:
- In 2023, $13.68 billion (67%) of the NFL's $20.47 billion total revenue was shared equally among the 32 teams3.
- This shared revenue comes from national sources such as TV deals, league-wide sponsorships, licensing agreements, and merchandise sales15.
- Each team received approximately $400 million from these shared sources in 2023
Teams also generate local revenue, which they keep:
Big Nate
Footballguy
This is very important for people to understand and why some teams may look "cheap" if they don't have someone that has all the cash on hand to payout everything at once.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Franchise Tag for a 2nd time?
Bengals make me sick to my stomach
Bengals make me sick to my stomach
pinkstapler
Footballguy
I imagine it's just a clock stretcher. It will either be a tag and trade or tag and sign to a new contract. Doubt even the Bengals expect it to be where this situation just ends.
Seems like tag and trade is still on the table, but seems like a lot of folks are just assuming he's back w/ Cincy. Think they try to work on a long term deal and if can't get it done, certainly possible esp. considering it's the Bengals, they'll trade him. Think they know if they keep him on a one year deal could see a lot of mysterious hamstring issues next season.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Hopefully he's able to time the fake injuries to overlap with his real injuries.... otherwise he won't even play enough games for the season to count as an accrued one
Yes I think this is correct, he was tagged to work on an extension and trade if they can't, not to actually be forced to play on it.
To your point I would not assume he's back, the tag only increased the odds.
MAC_32
Footballguy
The Bengals (and Cowboys) are run by very stupid people. Waiting to pay your guys is always a dumb decision, hind sight need not be required.
You’d have to be a stone cold contrarian to disagree with this.
I’ll take Rome in a vacuum, but if I’m trying to win a championship now Tee is likely the better option.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Man. Higgins is only 26. I would have said Odunze for sure but…….Higgins has already been really good…..
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I figured it would be thought provoking.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Mark me down in the Odunze column without much internal debate at all. Perfect storm for me of being lower than consensus on Higgins and thinking his highest upside is staying tied to Burrow and Chase; I think going to a different team and becoming the "WR1" might do more harm than good.
And Rome looked to improve (and was charted as improving) as the season went on despite that dumpster fire of an offense. Keenan Allen was being forced balls way past his prime. And DJ Moore and Rome were basically lining up 80% of routes in the opposite positions than what their historical success suggested they should have been used.
Sure, Higgins has shown more than Rome. But considering he's been in the league for 5 years now, I'd think he'd have shown more considering how high some people are on him tbh. Rome is younger and was a much better prospect coming out of college as well. I have a feeling this will shift from a split decision to heavily tilted towards Rome and not even close by as soon as this upcoming season's end.
I'd take Higgins, but I also take a pretty 3-year view in dynasty. I think they are close talent-wise, but Burrow>Caleb and I think Higgins is more likely than not to stay in Cincinnati.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Can't argue Burrow over Caleb. And as much as I think Caleb is MUCH better than he showed last year, I don't know if he'll ever surpass Burrow to be fair. Then again I think Burrow is one of the best QBs I've watched play in my lifetime, so the bar is high.
Yeah I'm torn on the bolded. I think it's the smart move for him from a production and championship aspiration stand point. And I don't think they would grossly underpay him or anything. But he seems intent on getting the bag (not blaming him here). I get he can't just "sit out" or he won't accrue a season; and we debate every year on these boards about players faking injury to miss time but it rarely if ever is shown to be a real thing players do in these circumstances. But this one feels kind of rough. Gonna weigh heavy on him watching Chase likely outdo the record breaking contract Garret just got.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Good lord
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m a bit skeptical of either of those things happening. lol
I love Higgins, but dude misses a lot of time. And Chase is a true alpha, so…tricky.
He hits those numbers last year if he doesn’t miss the five games…if he played 16 and Burrow didn’t miss significant time either, I’d be shocked if he didn’t give you that, honestly.
But yes, it’s hard to imagine he won’t miss time.
But when you have a QB that’s throwing for 4500+ yards, there’s plenty of volume to go around, particularly in an offense as concentrated as this.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Lot of ifs for a dude who gets hurt every year.
Again, love the dude. Roster him - but the best ability is availability and all that.
Not negativity towards you Faust but I don’t agree with this guys take. Don’t see anything about Tee’s deal which reset any market?
Also is there another Collins I am forgetting? Nico signed an extension last May. Although maybe they mean his next extension as he's still pretty young and it was only a 3 year deal.
