Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
DFS Tickets-Van Jefferson good value this week
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WR Van Jefferson, PIT (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Terpman22
- Start date
Deamon
Footballguy
Never called him a fantasy WR1. Just said with Kupp out, he is currently the teams "top wr" (take 'top' for whatever you will). I just think the top wr on ANY nfl team, no matter how much they suck, should at least be rosterable in a fantasy league with decent enough benches.
TakiToki
Footballguy
I'm high on Jefferson and have spent the past couple days accumulating shares. Thinking he could work out under divergent team paths.
My main assumption is that Stafford is still playing to ball out. He's made well over a quarter-billion in football salary alone, so I assume it's some combination of pride and enjoyment at this point, and that he wants to play well and put up numbers.
If the Rams are not winning and pull the plug on Kupp for the year, there could still be a lot of yards available. Even if the Rams don't see Jefferson as a future centerpiece, it makes a lot of sense to run up his production and cement a 3rd-round compensatory pick for him as a floor for his value. And if things break the other way and the Rams are sneaky-good, the offense can easily support a high-value #2 WR.
Basically, if Sean McVay is calling pass plays for Matt Stafford, yards and TDs will happen, at least to a reasonable degree. And it ain't gonna be Tutu Atwell catching them.
My main assumption is that Stafford is still playing to ball out. He's made well over a quarter-billion in football salary alone, so I assume it's some combination of pride and enjoyment at this point, and that he wants to play well and put up numbers.
If the Rams are not winning and pull the plug on Kupp for the year, there could still be a lot of yards available. Even if the Rams don't see Jefferson as a future centerpiece, it makes a lot of sense to run up his production and cement a 3rd-round compensatory pick for him as a floor for his value. And if things break the other way and the Rams are sneaky-good, the offense can easily support a high-value #2 WR.
Basically, if Sean McVay is calling pass plays for Matt Stafford, yards and TDs will happen, at least to a reasonable degree. And it ain't gonna be Tutu Atwell catching them.
massraider
Footballguy
Scandalous lack of respect for this opportunity.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think Jefferson could be good to have even when Kupp gets back in the lineup as long as Stafford plays well.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Was he?
He was injured then when he got back in the lineup Stafford was injured. There wasn't much of any overlap of them both being healthy last season.
2 of his games last season were with John Wolford who is not good. 1 game with Bryce Perkins and the others with Baker Mayfield who are not good.
In Jeffersons 2nd season in the league in 2021 when Stafford played the whole season and Kupp put up record numbers, Jefferson had 89 targets 50 receptions 802 yards and 6 TD.
If Stafford is healthy now at age 35 he certainly could have another good season and maybe Jefferson and Stafford play well together and his numbers from 2021 improve. He was the 2nd most targeted receiver on the team that year with Kupp getting 191 targets!! Certainly room for Jefferson to improve on that performance where he did share time with OBJ (8 games) and Robert Woods (9 games) that season. To be fair OBJ and Woods did have more targets combined than Jefferson that season. They were hurt and missed games. But neither of them are there any longer and Jefferson is clearly a Rams starting WR now whether Kupp is injured or not.
Easy to forget it seems like Stafford targets Kupp on EVERY play.
Imagine If Jefferson gets some of that Stafford tunnel vision??
Not Stafford is a spread it around guy.
Worth grabbing and seeing what happens.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Kupp is a great player. One does have to wonder if the Rams and Stafford maybe used him too much considering his health since then. Its a lot of hits over a short time frame, at times from an akward position when he was trying to catch a quick pass then cut away from the defender to get upfield.
From what I have seen as far as how the Rams have used Jefferson, its been more as a deep threat than how they were using Kupp.
That said I think Jefferson is a good receiver capable of winning on all types of routes, so they could use him in more ways.
I dont think he has the same suddenness and change of direction ability as Kupp. That is something pretty special about him that few WR can really match.
jm192
Footballguy
I believe Stafford targets Kupp on every play because Kupp is such a great receiver. Van is cheap enough that I won't question anyone making a dart throw. But I don't think it's a "Stafford is going to have tunnel vision for whoever the #1 is" situation.
candian fantasy guy
Footballguy
While many are big on Van Jefferson, I am liking Higbee much more as a target hog from Stafford.
jm192
Footballguy
I agree with this 1000%.
I had Higbee tabbed as the #2 target in the offense before the Kupp injury. Feels like he should really eat while Kupp is out.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Seems to be criminally underrated, given the circumstances. Put up 50/800/6 his 2nd year and then least year the Rams were a train wreck when Stafford went down and he was injured last year too. Good route runner, smart player. Definitely a big value right now and should not be a FA in most leagues, IMO.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I dont either.
The way Kupp wins is usually an easy target for a QB as well. Not to take anything away from Kupp by saying that. I just think this is also a factor in regards to the high number of targets hes had.
As far as Jefferson being used more as a downfield threat and compliment to Kupp in 2021 I think its worth noting that speed is something scouts questioned about Jefferson as a prospect. He had an injury that required surgery that they found when Jefferson was at the senior bowl. Who knows how long he had been playing with that. This caused him to not do drills at the combine. However Jefferson was recorded at 21 mph in the senior bowl, which was the fastest time they recorded for any player at the event, which included players like Gibson who ran a 4.39 at the combine and other unquestionably fast players there. And he did that while being injured.
This is documented earlier on in this thread or you can do a quick google of him and combine to quickly find that information.
Also his big plays and high yards per reception in 2021 are evidence of this as well. Jefferson is a better athlete than people may realize.
As a WR prospect he was touted more for his route running ability, hands and skill as a WR than for his athleticism.
He seems to have a lot of what you are looking for in a NFL WR and for fantasy purposes.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Go back and read the 2nd post of this thread where Les Snead describes Jefferson as a mix of Cooper Kupp and Robert Woods in explaination of why they drafted him in the 2nd round of 2020.
Its all there. Really no need to say more.
Its all there. Really no need to say more.
nittanylion
Footballguy
I'm very surprised by the optimism in here.
Just my opinion, but fragile old Matt Stafford is a few solid shots away from calling it quits, and come Sunday, he's gonna hear the Reaper's footsteps.
At his age, the shape he's in and more important, the shape this Rams team is in...he's made his money, he has his ring, what incentive is there for him to keep subjecting himself to the grind and the punishment?
This Rams team is not good. They might go 6-11 if things go well. The O-Line is bottom 25%. They can't protect a QB with limited mobility at best. They're not much good at run blocking, either. The RBs aren't special, the WRs aren't special and Higbee is above average, at best. Seattle's defense isn't losing sleep over the likes of Van Jefferson, Tutu Atwell and Puka Nacua.
Don't want to get started on the defense that was.
Then there's the financial shape their in. Best thing they could do is draft a rookie QB for the contract wiggle room it would give them and craft a 3 year plan.
I think one of the most likely Week 1 outcomes is the Rams getting slaughtered in Seattle, and Stafford quite possibly getting broken in half. I think it's very likely they don't generate 200 yards passing on Sunday.
To each his own and good luck to all, but I can't see a reason, outside of absolute desperation (and no one should be that desperate in Week 1), why anyone would start any Rams this week.
Again, my opinion:
There will be no garbage time stats here, either. It's Pete Carroll, in Week 1, in front of a rabid hometown crowd, vs a Division rival who's not very good...He's going to make an example out of a bad football team, and put on a show for the crowd. Pedal to the metal, no quarter given. It's his MO. It's what he does.
PS: I have nothing personal against the Rams and I'm a HUGE fan of Sean McVay. I'm just telling it like it is, at least how I see it.
Absolutely willing to listen to other side of the coin viewpoints, and will acknowledge on Monday if I'm wrong.
Just my opinion, but fragile old Matt Stafford is a few solid shots away from calling it quits, and come Sunday, he's gonna hear the Reaper's footsteps.
At his age, the shape he's in and more important, the shape this Rams team is in...he's made his money, he has his ring, what incentive is there for him to keep subjecting himself to the grind and the punishment?
This Rams team is not good. They might go 6-11 if things go well. The O-Line is bottom 25%. They can't protect a QB with limited mobility at best. They're not much good at run blocking, either. The RBs aren't special, the WRs aren't special and Higbee is above average, at best. Seattle's defense isn't losing sleep over the likes of Van Jefferson, Tutu Atwell and Puka Nacua.
Don't want to get started on the defense that was.
Then there's the financial shape their in. Best thing they could do is draft a rookie QB for the contract wiggle room it would give them and craft a 3 year plan.
I think one of the most likely Week 1 outcomes is the Rams getting slaughtered in Seattle, and Stafford quite possibly getting broken in half. I think it's very likely they don't generate 200 yards passing on Sunday.
To each his own and good luck to all, but I can't see a reason, outside of absolute desperation (and no one should be that desperate in Week 1), why anyone would start any Rams this week.
Again, my opinion:
There will be no garbage time stats here, either. It's Pete Carroll, in Week 1, in front of a rabid hometown crowd, vs a Division rival who's not very good...He's going to make an example out of a bad football team, and put on a show for the crowd. Pedal to the metal, no quarter given. It's his MO. It's what he does.
PS: I have nothing personal against the Rams and I'm a HUGE fan of Sean McVay. I'm just telling it like it is, at least how I see it.
Absolutely willing to listen to other side of the coin viewpoints, and will acknowledge on Monday if I'm wrong.
TampaMike19
Footballguy
Because no one knows **** about **** until the games are played. The Rams are still a professional team with a good staff. They will compete - rarely are divisional games blowouts. Biased as an akers owner but honestly all of us are just speculating ******** up until the games
Biabreakable
Footballguy
NIttanylion could be right about all of these things or maybe about some of them but not others.
The worth of Jefferson is very dependent on quality of play at QB. I agree with you there and I included that disclaimer in several of my previous posts already.
I think you are premature to think hat Stafford will be crushed in the first game and not play well again in his career. While that is possible, I also think your statements about this are hyperbolic.
Neither of us knows this for sure and we will soon see the first scene about this team and how good or bad Stafford is when they play.
You may be right about the offensive line. I dont really know. The quality of their play or lack thereof will of course have a great impact on Staffords ability to play well if he can, and if he can stay healthy.
As far as the outlook of the overall team, I dont think the Rams need to win many games for the passing game and Jefferson to put up good numbers. 200 yards passing seems very pessimistic in todays NFL. Are the Seahawks some defensive juggernaught again? If so I definitely missed that becoming a thing.
My outlook is not focused on just this game, but the type of season Jefferson could have if he gets decent QB play. I think Stafford has proven he can provide that when healthy.
The worth of Jefferson is very dependent on quality of play at QB. I agree with you there and I included that disclaimer in several of my previous posts already.
I think you are premature to think hat Stafford will be crushed in the first game and not play well again in his career. While that is possible, I also think your statements about this are hyperbolic.
Neither of us knows this for sure and we will soon see the first scene about this team and how good or bad Stafford is when they play.
You may be right about the offensive line. I dont really know. The quality of their play or lack thereof will of course have a great impact on Staffords ability to play well if he can, and if he can stay healthy.
As far as the outlook of the overall team, I dont think the Rams need to win many games for the passing game and Jefferson to put up good numbers. 200 yards passing seems very pessimistic in todays NFL. Are the Seahawks some defensive juggernaught again? If so I definitely missed that becoming a thing.
My outlook is not focused on just this game, but the type of season Jefferson could have if he gets decent QB play. I think Stafford has proven he can provide that when healthy.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Well this was not what I was hoping for from Jefferson week one.
Some positives are that Stafford played well and the Rams protected him well enough.
Jefferson did play the most snaps of the WR.
Some things I learned from looking into the first game were that the Rams played a lot of 3 WR bunch sets and that Seattle played a lot of zone coverage. The seahawks were also missing 2 of their better defensive backs in this game.
Based on this I am speculating that Jefferson may have drawn Seattles best corner in coverage, which already slightly depleted meant better match ups for Puka and Atwell than Jefferson.
The Rams have a more difficult defense to match up against with the 49ers in week 2.
While pepple are understandably excited about Puka and Atwell right now, I am not ready to turn the page on Jefferson after one game. If Jefferson did not drop what sounds like would have been a big gain peoples decisions about this might be less clear right now, but of course he didnt.
3 more weeks without Kupp and I am interested to see how that shakes out before drawing any conclushions.
Some positives are that Stafford played well and the Rams protected him well enough.
Jefferson did play the most snaps of the WR.
Some things I learned from looking into the first game were that the Rams played a lot of 3 WR bunch sets and that Seattle played a lot of zone coverage. The seahawks were also missing 2 of their better defensive backs in this game.
Based on this I am speculating that Jefferson may have drawn Seattles best corner in coverage, which already slightly depleted meant better match ups for Puka and Atwell than Jefferson.
The Rams have a more difficult defense to match up against with the 49ers in week 2.
While pepple are understandably excited about Puka and Atwell right now, I am not ready to turn the page on Jefferson after one game. If Jefferson did not drop what sounds like would have been a big gain peoples decisions about this might be less clear right now, but of course he didnt.
3 more weeks without Kupp and I am interested to see how that shakes out before drawing any conclushions.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Really thought this guy would be maybe a decent player. Not sure if he will ever do anything if he couldn't produce in McVay's offense.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
He has already been dropped in a couple of my dynasty leagues.
Terpman22
Footballguy
LOL I was trying to pick him up in FA drafts this offseason. Then Puka happened. Have him in every dynasty but 1 league. I'll hold to see if he goes to a good situation, but most likely another drop and "what could have been" in my brain.
Insein
Footballguy
He was low man on the totem pole in LA. Now he's going from Stafford to Ridder and he's behind London, Pitts, Jonnu, and Bijan.
No. Nothing to see here.
joey
Footballguy
Invisible in a pass friendly offense with an opportunity to flourish placed at his feet.
How can there possibly be anything to see in run-centric offense with a worse QB.
droppable in all formats except for absolutely giant rosters.
massraider
Footballguy
I have he and KJ Osborn in dynasty, and they are both on expiring deals.
So I am holding till next spring, but completely disappointed in Van this year.
The Falcons have shown the fantastically annoying habit of throwing the ball to people other than their studs, so Van may be a sleeper.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
For sure waiver wire fodder now if that is true.
foxco
Footballguy
Makes him easier to drop in dynasty I'd guess.
that's what you think
JohnnyU
Footballguy
He’s probably right.
It was a joke about the falcons touch distribution
Truebluey
Footballguy
@Terpman22 Title change plz
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Its dissapointing and I am not sure what happened with Jefferson. The opportunity was certainly there he just didnt take advantage of it and was leap frogged by Puka and Tutu.
I havent watched him with the Rams enough to say what happened. He has the blood lines and showed good skill when I watched him as a prospect in college but it just hasnt transformed into production.
Even Torry Holt was expecting good things for him this year before the season began.
In retrospect he didnt put up big numbers at the college level either, so for whatever reason that is that lack of production has carried over to the pro level as well.
Its puzzling to me, he has skill and athletism to be a success, he checked every box from a evaluation perspective except for production in college and showed some signs of that with the Rams at times, but it just didnt happen.
I havent watched him with the Rams enough to say what happened. He has the blood lines and showed good skill when I watched him as a prospect in college but it just hasnt transformed into production.
Even Torry Holt was expecting good things for him this year before the season began.
In retrospect he didnt put up big numbers at the college level either, so for whatever reason that is that lack of production has carried over to the pro level as well.
Its puzzling to me, he has skill and athletism to be a success, he checked every box from a evaluation perspective except for production in college and showed some signs of that with the Rams at times, but it just didnt happen.
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The downside to signing a cheap veteran WR to be a fourth or fifth is he's a Smith WR for a partial season not that he's a McVay receiver for the rest of his career.
(I predicted this in the other thread)
Tomlin surely has no say, wants nothing to do with veterans other coaches liked for effort, players that won big games, or wants better depth. It's all Arthur
The Steelers will surely not get up to 90 players on their roster either
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Someone on Twitter was saying VJ’s father is the receivers coach for the Jets.
Strange they couldn’t find a way to make that work.
Strange they couldn’t find a way to make that work.
Shawn Jefferson who was also the WR's coach for WR needy Carolina last year and Arizona the year prior. But last year when he was made available I did think he'd go to Carolina, maybe they want to keep that relationship clean?
Anyway Arthur loves WR's who run block and that's what VJ does best.
He was a Titans WR coach years ago. When they're "just a WR coach" their success is usually tied to only one or two guys. He yells an awful lot and some of today's athletes don't like that.
Tyler Vrabel is on the Falcons and the Titans needed a tackle bad and were on their fourth string T and Vrabel still didn't try to get his boy. He said a lot of his best relationships are from the field and a lot of his life lessons came from football and he didn't think players would be sincere and didn't want to cheat his kid of that experience. His quote was retweeted by a zillion players which I took to mean they totally agree
