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Gates isn't elite no doubt but his targets were down partly because they couldn't protect rivers, rivers' attempts were also down yoy. No run game meant no respect for the run and inability for gates to gain separation which in turn led to lower ypc. I like brown don't get me wrong I just wouldn't put that much faith in a third year receiver who has played 14 games and has less than 300 career yards.
Can't knock ADP. I think you see Wayne slow down this year. I Welker stays with the Pats you got great value here. The pair together are a solid survivor start. I think you had to go double QB here in order to get a second that would contribute. Between the two of us, we started a scramble and some other talent fell. Everyone seems to be high on Miller in these drafts. I don't like his injury and even sans injury, this year was probably an anomoly. Myers, who knows with the Raiders history. I fell like you were stat chasing last year's numbers with these picks. Something worries me about the WRs in Seattle. Constant churn. That said, you lay out some good reasoning for Tate. Pierce was money. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rice drop out of the top ten next year. Really like the Reese pick. Sanu wasn't on my radar, but I haven't been researching that deep yet.Nice team.
bolded...I think Bass was spot on with this....and your comments about the picks kind of add to that.....IMO Miller is going way too high in these considering his injury and I agree with Bass that his production last year maybe was the exception rather then the norm....my gut is saying similiar things about Myers....
Miller's targets have been between 52 and 65 5 of 8 seasons. 09 he had 98, 11 was 80, and 100 this year. The TDs the last three years have been 2, 2, and 8. I just can't point to anything reason why he made have made strides forward other than a lack of running game or weak o-line which Pitt will surely address. Pettigrew, Gates, and Finley all have been more consistant in their targets.Myers exploded this season. Someone please explain why after three non productive years. His catch rate was over 75% which is amazing. My comment on Myers was who knows...probably should have been I don't know. Would love to hear other thoughts on his prospects since I don't know much about him and haven't seen him play.
Myers definitely came out of nowhere this season but I don't think his stats really reflect his value. I can’t really explain the high catch rate except that it seems to be the only pass Palmer could make somewhat effectively. Also Knapp’s offense was truly horrible but Myers seemed comfortable in it and became the de facto checkdown receiver. But he offers no playmaking ability or RAC, as evidenced by a paltry 10 yd/rec. It seemed like most of his stats accumulated in garbage time. 40% of his targets came in the 4th quarter. Add the fact that Oakland’s WRs really regressed – as a group they caught 50% of their targets. I haven’t checked but that’s got to dead last or near it. Palmer has to take some blame for this also but when Streater leads your WRs at 53%, you know the WR group sucks ###. Due to last year stats, he may find a better offer than the Raiders are willing to give and if he goes elsewhere, I’m pretty sure his stats tank next year. If he stays with Raiders, he’ll have some value but I don’t expect anything near to last year.'BassNBrew said:
Continuing the conversation....
Three of four picks at RB, but for good reason. Only 1 RB on the team, so this is basically an "all in" on Arian Foster to support my running back position. I think Richardson and Powell both have good shots at good contributions for STL and NYJ, respectively. Had to take Ben Tate when I did (as Cap'n pointed out, just in time) as this basically locks up Foster/Tate for the Houston lead RB position.The bye week would hurt of course, but when you're all in on Foster, you can't afford not to have his backup.
Pretty good overall, but I see some downside at WR with PPR. DeSean is just too up and down, but if he gets a bigger role with Chip Kelly, could have major upside. The rest of the WRs are also hit or miss most weeks, so if 2-3 have off weeks all at once, could have some downside. I think if you trade on of these 4 for a better PPR guy, I'd like it a little more (just to have a 70+ catch guy to smooth out the up and downs from the other 3).Plenty of injury history on this list too, and I'm not even counting Stafford. MJD, DJax, Britt, Pettigrew and Davis all missed significant time recently.
umm because they finally had not better TE and threw to him because he was open on a ton of playsYeah he didn't have a lot of targets/catches in college and in Oakland for his first few years blocked more than ran patterns but he is a BIG target with good hands - that is all that really matters with a good QB - maybe even more important when QB is under siege. I think he re-signs with Oakland and has another good year.Top 5? Probably not but enough targets/catches will put him in the top ten again'BassNBrew said:
You can say that again BSS. The last couple of days have been brutal. About 9 picks yesterday and 2 picks so far today. I had hope I might actually get a pick in today but now I am doubting that it will happen.
Sorry man, had my eye on a few other players that got nabbed. I like his talent set and with Lynch's back and the way Seahawks started blowing out teams at the end of the year I see a guy who should offer some usable games with high end returns if Lynch is out.
Agree - those RB in the 11th cut my list to shreds and YOU didn't help by taking Harris who I thought sure would still be there at the end of the 12th
I'm content with Cameron's upside here, but I wanted Davis, Housler, Fleener, Allen, or Keller. I was expecting to grab either Andre Brown or Michael Bush at this turn as defensive picks. Brown might be more than that.
I've been looking at him for a while, it was tough to slot him. Could be a home run or a complete waste of a pick. I'll just be crossing my fingers the Packers stay quiet in free agency.Agree - those RB in the 11th cut my list to shreds and YOU didn't help by taking Harris who I thought sure would still be there at the end of the 12th
Adding depth for WR4 here with a solid PPR player, who had 61-778-1 through 13 games last year. That put him at 49th overall last season in PPR scoring for the year and would have him at over 180 fantasy points for 16 games - and that's still with him needing a map to the end zone. If his TDs leveled out to the normal one per every 12-15 catches for most Top 50 WRs, he's a solid WR3 in this format at worst.New England defense - the run is likely to come now, and grabbing a team that was Top 10 last year and has several good matchups coming in 2013 (Miami x2, Buffalo x2, NY Jets x2, Cleveland, Carolina) plus a strong offense that should keep the defense rested, and you have to like their chances at finishing in the Top 10 for fantasy defenses once again.
I thought so as well.Always interesting to see where my other picks go in WSL2 and WSL3.I'm either way ahead of the curve on Daryl Richardson or off my rocker.'FUBAR said:
1. It is a 3-WR set league any more. Lots of teams want to get that nickel or dime defense on the field.2. Bess is good possession / slot type guy like Welker or Amendola (not saying he's as good, but that's his "type"). Doesn't have to be the flanker or split end.3. Fasano is aging fast and the youngsters are very, very young. Not sure if any TE is really much in the mix next year.4. Tannehill is up and coming and the Dolphins need a good passing game.5. Reggie Bush may not be back, which means more passes going to a slot-type guy.I think he's a good shot at 70 catches next year.
Yup. About 4 +/- 2 recpts a week plus 50 +/- 20 yards will cover 75% of his weeks best case scenario.
Interesting debate here - but that's most of the fun for me in these drafts.I'm sticking with Bess as a value pick at this point of the draft.I pretty much said that TE won't be in the mix much next year, but you still have to give Fasano a little credit for 41 catches and five touchdowns. Not sure what point you're trying to make other than agreeing with me on that.As for his being a 3rd WR, who are you thinking steps up as a WR2? Hartline could also easily walk. Look at the Miami targets (and keep in mind, Miami barely threw it 500 times last year, finishing 24th overall in pass attempts)
olphins with over 40 targets:Hartline 131Bess 105 (in 13 games)Fasano 68Reggie Bush 52Unless they go out and sign two veterans, Bess should be one of the two starting wideouts in Miami next year and see 120+ targets if he plays all 16 games.As far as BNB's point about 4-50 being his weekly average, I'm OK with that for WR68 off the board and a highly probable starter. WR4 here - if he is indeed the 4th best scorer for my team each week - will count 3x during bye weeks (if my first 3 guys don't share byes). I'd take nine points that week as a baseline replacement WR. I wanted a high floor guy for WR4 and Bess fits that bill nicely.I fully expect them to do just that. I think they'll spend more at the position than the Redskins did last off season when they added Garcon and Morgan. They project to have around $40-45 million in cap space and they'll get their promising young QB some weapons.I'll actually be surprised if the plan for Bess is anything more than the slot WR. On the other hand I'd be equally surprised if it was any less. That's a good role for him and the kind of role he can be a 60-70 catch kind of guy. He's not a player without value but I think he went about where he should have gone. I think I picked him in this area in one of the survivor leagues last year and he gave me about 4-5 games. Like B&B said he's a good guy to have on a thin WR group but you'd be hard pressed to come up with a 60+ catch projected WR with less upside.
5.08 Torrey Smith - WR32 - BAL6.09 Jacquizz Rodgers - RB30 - ATL7.08 Kyle Rudolph - TE12 - MIN8.09 Mark Sanchez - QB26 - NYJ9.08 Vincent Brown - WR51 - SD10.09 Kevin Kolb - QB29 - AZ11.08 Ronnie Hillman - RB52 - DEN 12.09 Leonard Hankerson - WR64 - WASH13.08 Vikings DEF/ST 11What started out as a fairly good draft went south in a hurry. Got caught sleeping during the QB run and ended up with Sanchez and Kolb for QBs
. I see Rodgers getting more touches in ATL next year even if the team keeps Turner or goes out and gets another RB. I also see Hillman's touches going up in Denver next year although the backfield is a little more crowded there. I am still very high on Brown and loved getting him where I did. As a Vikings homer I am looking for Rudolph to take another step this year even with Ponder throwing the ball and the Vikings Def should continue to improve with youth and hopefully Allen and Robison getting healthy.Going to take a lot of work with sleepers to make it a ways in this league next year with this team, but part of the fun of drafting right now is that a lot of things can happen.
It looks to me like you intentionally avoided QBs. Your team would be strong with eli or rg3 instead of Matthews, or flacco instead of rodgers. Add it stands, i don't know how you make it past midseason.5.08 Torrey Smith - WR32 - BAL6.09 Jacquizz Rodgers - RB30 - ATL7.08 Kyle Rudolph - TE12 - MIN8.09 Mark Sanchez - QB26 - NYJ9.08 Vincent Brown - WR51 - SD10.09 Kevin Kolb - QB29 - AZ11.08 Ronnie Hillman - RB52 - DEN 12.09 Leonard Hankerson - WR64 - WASH13.08 Vikings DEF/ST 11What started out as a fairly good draft went south in a hurry. Got caught sleeping during the QB run and ended up with Sanchez and Kolb for QBs
Solid. I know he swiped Bowe from me one pick before me and I had to resort to Jennings.If I had a concern with this team it would be the frailness of the TE combo. I actually prefer Fleener over Allen, who I took one spot before Fleener, but having often injured Aaron Hernandez as my other TE I wanted a more durable player so I opted for Allen. The missed games may or may not support this argument but if I was listing out TE's I feel most likely to miss games due to injuries next year I think Daniels and Fleener would head that list and Hernandez would be next.Yes you must have some Miami bias because I don't see Hankerson offering much. Granted he was only in his second season last year but the Garcon and Fred Davis injuries opened the door for him to breakout. He's still inside. With Garcon healthy and Fred Davis or at least a TE better than Paulson on the team I don't see much in the way of upside or reliability in Hankerson.
I think we can all agree that Miami will be bringing in at least one if not two vets to give tanny some legitimate wide receivers. He was good as a rook given what he had to work with. Assuming you bring in just one then it is likely you resign hartline.There is quite a bit of data on Bess and he is what he is. Converts 65-70% of targets, good hands and fine in the slot. The last time he played second fiddle to a legit number one he had 80/817/5 but when hartline emerged in 2011 he dropped off when split targets 51/537/3 in a full 16 game slate. His yards per recept were up about 20% in 2012 vs his career average which seems to indicate the number 2 in that offense will have value with tanny there (I didn't really catch any fins games so not sure how much of this was a function of route mix vs prior years) but I don't think anyone would mistake Bess for a guy that should be commanding top 2 wr targets. As a number 3 guy I expect his targets to settle in around 75-85.I anticipate tanny to see perhaps a 10% pop in attempts as the offense continues to grow and is better able to sustain drives. Bess should fall back to about where has been on that level of targets as a number 3 guy in the past. My call is about 55/600/2. Seems to come down to our expectations of who they bring in and where Bess then falls out. You expect him to possibly be one of two starters and I expect him to be the number 3 which likely gets him a target on 15% of dropbacks ilo 25% which a higher conversion rate won't offset.I think he is fine as a wr68 but as meno said doesn't offer upside and given where I expect him to fall out in the pecking order the pick was about where I would have expected. I do agree he is fine as a wr4 who will contribute. Will be interested to see what happens.Interesting debate here - but that's most of the fun for me in these drafts.I'm sticking with Bess as a value pick at this point of the draft.I pretty much said that TE won't be in the mix much next year, but you still have to give Fasano a little credit for 41 catches and five touchdowns. Not sure what point you're trying to make other than agreeing with me on that.As for his being a 3rd WR, who are you thinking steps up as a WR2? Hartline could also easily walk. Look at the Miami targets (and keep in mind, Miami barely threw it 500 times last year, finishing 24th overall in pass attempts)
What are you trying to say here BassNBrew. People better get their defenses now before you grab your third?Sorry for the delay. Went out for a long bike ride this morning and then proceed to spend the next 2 hours puking my guts out before having to go to work. Regardless, I should have pm'd a pick.
Also note, I now have two defenses.
Sounds like you have done your scouting...What are you trying to say here BassNBrew. People better get their defenses now before you grab your third?Sorry for the delay. Went out for a long bike ride this morning and then proceed to spend the next 2 hours puking my guts out before having to go to work. Regardless, I should have pm'd a pick.
Also note, I now have two defenses.
Looks like I guessed right or sparked the run on D/ST. Glad I took one when I did (not sure if SF is the best D or not, but they're good). Almost took a 2nd D here but figured I'd take my chances that a fair one will remain another 2 rounds. Or I'll just roll with SF, not a huge issue.
Looks like Vick re-structured, I think he's a better fit than Foles for Kellys O.We will see, good news to counter the Bradshaw issue some
So much for my deep sleeper. :(
