Yahoo waiver flaw? (1 Viewer)

[Deadzone21]

Today, I discovered that the commissioner in my money league had been taking advantage of a Yahoo flaw all season.

While looking at the transaction logs for last night's waivers, I noticed he was able to pickup waiver players as free agents before the waiver process. Apparently, at midnight. Yahoo converts all unclaimed waiver players to free agents even before it has processed the waiver claims. In our case, waivers wasn't processed until 2 am. This allowed him to know whether there was any waiver claims for a player and pick him up as a FA without jeopardizing his waiver position, and if there was a waiver claim for that player, he still had plenty of time to submit a waiver claim in hope that his waiver position was high enough.

I feel that knowing if a player was going to clear waivers, gives that owner an advantage in the waiver process. Other owners (myself included) had to surrender their waiver position and submit waiver requests for players they didn't know was going to clear waivers.

I think he, as the commissioner, should have either (1) fix the flaw if possible and at the very least (2) disclosed this flaw to the rest to the league in all fairness.

What do you think? As commissioner, was he right to take advantage of this flaw without disclosing it to the rest of the league? or was it his right to take advantage of any flaw in Yahoo that he wasn't responsible for? Should I disclose this information on the league board?

Also, has anyone else noticed this flaw in other Yahoo leagues?

 

[Cowboys#1]

dont play on yahoo so i dont know about the flaw but it should be brought up and the league should stress zero tolerance for this sort of thing

level playing field for all...

 

[toppshelff]

Interesting, wasn't aware of this "flaw". What I don't understand is why the Commish could see this but not other managers. For instance, if at 12:15 you see a guy as a FA, you can pick him up as such. If however, he is still on waivers, you can submit your waiver request for him.

Is that what is happening with the Commish? How come you can't do the same? If other managers can do the same, then really its just a case of the Commish figuring it out first?

Kudos to him for seeing the flaw, but it really is something the whole league should know about. Yahoo! needs to fix this as it could destroy the whole waiver process, methinks.

 

[toppshelff]

One more reason not to use Yahoo!

 

[Texican]

Interesting, wasn't aware of this "flaw". What I don't understand is why the Commish could see this but not other managers. For instance, if at 12:15 you see a guy as a FA, you can pick him up as such. If however, he is still on waivers, you can submit your waiver request for him.Is that what is happening with the Commish? How come you can't do the same? If other managers can do the same, then really its just a case of the Commish figuring it out first?Kudos to him for seeing the flaw, but it really is something the whole league should know about. Yahoo! needs to fix this as it could destroy the whole waiver process, methinks.

I agree that it seems the commish was just the first one to notice the flaw. BUT, I think what the OP was saying is that the commish has an advantage because he can see who everyone is going after and then grab that person (even though he may not have been able to with his WW priority). I don't know though

 

[bentley]

Interesting, wasn't aware of this "flaw". What I don't understand is why the Commish could see this but not other managers. For instance, if at 12:15 you see a guy as a FA, you can pick him up as such. If however, he is still on waivers, you can submit your waiver request for him.Is that what is happening with the Commish? How come you can't do the same? If other managers can do the same, then really its just a case of the Commish figuring it out first?Kudos to him for seeing the flaw, but it really is something the whole league should know about. Yahoo! needs to fix this as it could destroy the whole waiver process, methinks.

I agree that it seems the commish was just the first one to notice the flaw. BUT, I think what the OP was saying is that the commish has an advantage because he can see who everyone is going after and then grab that person (even though he may not have been able to with his WW priority). I don't know though

I've read it a couple times. The first time, I tought toppshelf had it right, and that it was something everyone had the chance to read. Now, I think you've got it. This post also reminds me to check and see if I can do the same thing at AOL.

 

[Plainsman]

I was commish of a yahoo league. You cannot see everyone's waiver claim. The commish has NO advantage. Lay off the dude. He figured it out 1st, and you're just jealous. He has no obligation to notify everyone of the loophole whether he is the commish or not.

Just a thought, are yall in different time zones? If your'e on the west coast the waivers become FA at midnight (2 am eastern).

 

[toppshelff]

Plainsman, you are right. I'm a Commish, and I have no access to other's waiver requests. I think the Commish spotted the problem first, that's all.

The OP has the choice of also taking advantage of the loophole, or alerting the rest of the league to it so all is "fair". Ideally, everyone byatches to Yahoo! and gets it fixed.

 

[toppshelff]

My guess is that the only reason you noticed it at all is that the Commish made the "mistake" of picking up the guy between midnight and 2 a.m. You spotted this in the transaction records while noting that a different waiver went through later. If he knew the guy was a FA and wasn't going to be picked up on waivers, he should have waited to 4 a.m. and picked him up then. Nobody would have been the smarter to his gamesmanship.

 

[Plainsman]

Deadzone,

If I were you I wouldnt make a stink and inform everyone. You know the trick and can now beat him at his own game. Dont be dumb and blow your newly found advantage.

 

[jdraiders]

Deadzone,If I were you I wouldnt make a stink and inform everyone. You know the trick and can now beat him at his own game. Dont be dumb and blow your newly found advantage.

I disagree. You inform everyone what is going on and this is why you will no longer be playing as long as he is the commish.

 

[2banalias]

Deadzone,If I were you I wouldnt make a stink and inform everyone. You know the trick and can now beat him at his own game. Dont be dumb and blow your newly found advantage.

Methinks you sound like the commish that has been caught cheating.

 

[Marc Levin]

I do not believe there is any cheating here - folks are misreading the situation - lemme break it down by eliminating some language, bolding some language, and separating some thoughts. My additions in []

Today, I discovered that the commissioner in my money league had been taking advantage of a Yahoo flaw all season.

he was able to pickup waiver players as free agents before the waiver process. Apparently, at midnight. Yahoo converts all unclaimed waiver players to free agents even before it has processed the waiver claims.

waivers wasn't are not processed until 2 am. This allowed him to know whether there was any waiver claims for a player [going unclaimed in waivers] and pick him up as a FA

if there was a waiver claim for that player, he still had plenty of time to submit a waiver claim in and hope his waiver position was high enough [to get the player through normal waiver priority]

Other owners to surrender their waiver position and submit[ted] waiver requests for players they didn't know was going to clear waivers. [who cleared waiver.]

OK - and, without the copy editing:Today, I discovered that the commissioner in my money league has been taking advantage of a Yahoo flaw all season.

He has been able to pick up waiver players as free agents before the waiver process played out. At midnight, Yahoo converts all unclaimed waiver players into free agents - even before processing waiver claims.

Waivers are not processed until 2 am, which is after midnight and, therefore, waivers are prcessed after the unclaimed player clear the WW and become deisgnated as FAs. This allowed the commisioner to know whether there was any player who would clear waivers, and he immediately picked him up as a FA when Yahoo made those unclaimed players FAs

If there was a waiver claim for the particular player, the player would not be converted to a FA at midnight and the commish had two hours (till 2 am) to submit a waiver claim - and he then would have to have a high enough waiver priority to get the player through the normal waiver process.

Other owners submitted waiver requests for players they did not know were going to clear waivers.

If I have this right, the commish noticed that Yahoo processed all unclaimed players into free agents two hours before it processed the waiver claims. If that is incorrect, my bad for incorrectly interpreting your poorly explained situation.

Noone lost out on their waiver priority - but the commish got first shot at all players who were destined to clear the waiver wire because no other team claimed the player.

If there was a player who was claimed by some team, the commish had time to then submit a waiver wire claim and hope he got the player through thenormal waiver process.

Oh, and an additional note about Yahoo - if you submit a waiver claim, you go to the back of the line, whether or not you get the player you requested.

I am in one Yahoo league b/c the league's been together for 6 years and I just can NOT move any other owner off of Yahoo. Y! is simply FUBAR. Take advantage of their flaws and don't complain, or, as you learn about the flaws, you write rules going forward.

The commish didn't cheat - any one could have figured it out. He just happenedd to be on top of it, and he happened to be the commish so you are hjolding him to a higher standard - but he did not cheat. Had a non-commish owner done the same move, there would be no objections here.

NOw, if he used his commish powers to do something owners can't do, that is obvious cheating.

Otherwise, it's a Y!:

 

[SickThing]

First off, I'm sure Yahoo! commish's can't tell if you have a waiver claim in. That would be bad. I know I would have noticed getting burned by that in years in a Y!league where the commish is a competitor to me and I often have the last priority due to excessive moves and consistantly good record. Sorry, I just don't trust him enough to think he just didn't use that advantage.

I can't see how it is cheating anyway if no one had bothered to put in a waiver claim, then the player is allowed to be a FA and someone then takes him a short time before no one else was going to anyway.

I see you are in California and say waivers clear at 2 AM. I believe that's a generalization. Here in the central zone (2 hour difference), my Y!leagues waivers usually go through somewhere between 4 AM and 5 AM, but it varies. Last Sunday I tried to change kickers and it still hadn't gone through ten minutes before the early game, so I had to cancel it.

 

[videoguy505]

If I have this right, the commish noticed that Yahoo processed all unclaimed players into free agents two hours before it processed the waiver claims. If that is incorrect, my bad for incorrectly interpreting your poorly explained situation.Noone lost out on their waiver priority - but the commish got first shot at all players who were destined to clear the waiver wire because no other team claimed the player.If there was a player who was claimed by some team, the commish had time to then submit a waiver wire claim and hope he got the player through thenormal waiver process.Oh, and an additional note about Yahoo - if you submit a waiver claim, you go to the back of the line, whether or not you get the player you requested.I am in one Yahoo league b/c the league's been together for 6 years and I just can NOT move any other owner off of Yahoo. Y! is simply FUBAR. Take advantage of their flaws and don't complain, or, as you learn about the flaws, you write rules going forward.The commish didn't cheat - any one could have figured it out. He just happenedd to be on top of it, and he happened to be the commish so you are hjolding him to a higher standard - but he did not cheat. Had a non-commish owner done the same move, there would be no objections here.NOw, if he used his commish powers to do something owners can't do, that is obvious cheating.Otherwise, it's a Y!:

He also has figured something else out:Let's say the Commissioner or whatever Owner knows about this doesn't submit ANY waiver claims for the week, knowing full well he will log on at 12:01 and survey the situation. Let's say he's a McNabb owner who needs a QB this week, and will also need a WR. He can log on at 12:01 and see that all the QBs are free agents--meaning no one has submitted a waiver claim that week for a QB. So, knowing that, he doesn't have to "waste" a WW claim on a QB and move to the back of the line if he also wants to grab a WR later. He can make his highest priority claim for the best WR and see if he gets it, knowing that he doesn't need to bother with claiming a QB as they will all clear waivers. I don't think it's abuse of commissioner powers since it seems any smart owner can figure out the loophole here.

 

[Marc Levin]

I see you are in California and say waivers clear at 2 AM.

That'd be 5 AM - midnight ET would be 9 PM in Callie.Fanball runs everything off ET, and I would guess Y! processes everything at some time chosen based on ET

 

[Marc Levin]

He also has figured something else out:So, knowing that, he doesn't have to "waste" a WW claim on a QB and move to the back of the line if he also wants to grab a WR later. He can make his highest priority claim for the best WR and see if he gets it, knowing that he doesn't need to bother with claiming a QB as they will all clear waivers.

I thikn that was the entire point of the OP's story.

 

[SickThing]

I've been in some Y!leagues for years and I'm just not believing this is true. I just checked at 1:30 AM the 2 Y!leagues I'm in and there's 3 different WRs clearing waivers this morning. I'll feel it's very unlikely all 3 will have claims put on them.

As of 1:30 central time, they're all still listed a on waivers. At 2:00 (midnight Pacific time) I'll check the status again to see if any of them have cleared as FAs. Then in another couple of hours or so after that, we'll know for sure if no one had claims in.

ETA: 2:10 AM CST the 3 WRs I'm watching are all still "W", not "FA".

ETA: 4:03 AM A.Bryant (10 teamer), D.Bennett and Br.Johnson (12 teamer) all still listed as "W". (This time updated several times.)

ETA: 4:20 Still no change. Tried putting in a claim and it didn't go through immediately. Then cancelled the claim. No effect.

ETA: 5:10 Still no change. Who knows when it'll go through today. Can't continue to wait longer.

ETA: The transactions logs the next day showed Bennett picked up at 7:23 CST. So while the observations may not have disproved a 2 hour gap (which I still doubt), they did disprove any midnight change for the 2 that didn't have any claims on them.

 

[toppshelff]

I find Yahoo! wildly unpredictable about what time they process waivers. It is currently 4:28 EST, and no waivers requests or returns to FA have been processes. This loophole would be a pain to go through if Yahoo! continues vary its time of processing. Wonder why it's not all automatic.

 

[toppshelff]

In the last 25 minutes, all waiver-->FAs and all waiver requests were completed. If there was a gap, it was small. And unpredictable (I'm at 7:11 a.m. EST).

 

[yellowdog]

The commish can tell if there are any waiver claims, but can't tell who has them. Under commissioner tools, if you go to "change waiver dates" if a player has a claim on him, he will not be listed. At least that's the way it is for baseball.

The commish will not be able to put a claim in after the midnight deadline.

 

[Deadzone21]

I've been in some Y!leagues for years and I'm just not believing this is true. I just checked at 1:30 AM the 2 Y!leagues I'm in and there's 3 different WRs clearing waivers this morning. I'll feel it's very unlikely all 3 will have claims put on them. As of 1:30 central time, they're all still listed a on waivers. At 2:00 (midnight Pacific time) I'll check the status again to see if any of them have cleared as FAs. Then in another couple of hours or so after that, we'll know for sure if no one had claims in.ETA: 2:10 AM CST the 3 WRs I'm watching are all still "W", not "FA".ETA: 4:03 AM A.Bryant (10 teamer), D.Bennett and Br.Johnson (12 teamer) all still listed as "W". (This time updated several times.) ETA: 4:20 Still no change. Tried putting in a claim and it didn't go through immediately. Then cancelled the claim. No effect. ETA: 5:10 Still no change. Who knows when it'll go through today. Can't continue to wait longer. ETA: The transactions logs the next day showed Bennett picked up at 7:23 CST. So while the observations may not have disproved a 2 hour gap (which I still doubt), they did disprove any midnight change for the 2 that didn't have any claims on them.

Not sure how it affects other Yahoo league or if the flaw can occur again. But this commish did admit to the flaw, but stands firm that he did nothing wrong. Logs do confirm this flaw.Nov 1 12:00am Commish adds QB as FANov 1 12:00am Commish adds WR as FANov 1 1:58am first of several waiver claims processedI don't know if this has anything to do with the flaw, but he had dropped 2 players (creating 2 empty roster spots) on Tues Oct 31st. Even if this flaw was a 1-time deal, I feel it crosses the line of a level playing field.

 

[bryhamm]

I do not believe there is any cheating here - folks are misreading the situation - lemme break it down by eliminating some language, bolding some language, and separating some thoughts. My additions in []

Today, I discovered that the commissioner in my money league had been taking advantage of a Yahoo flaw all season.

he was able to pickup waiver players as free agents before the waiver process. Apparently, at midnight. Yahoo converts all unclaimed waiver players to free agents even before it has processed the waiver claims.

waivers wasn't are not processed until 2 am. This allowed him to know whether there was any waiver claims for a player [going unclaimed in waivers] and pick him up as a FA

if there was a waiver claim for that player, he still had plenty of time to submit a waiver claim in and hope his waiver position was high enough [to get the player through normal waiver priority]

Other owners to surrender their waiver position and submit[ted] waiver requests for players they didn't know was going to clear waivers. [who cleared waiver.]

OK - and, without the copy editing:Today, I discovered that the commissioner in my money league has been taking advantage of a Yahoo flaw all season.

He has been able to pick up waiver players as free agents before the waiver process played out. At midnight, Yahoo converts all unclaimed waiver players into free agents - even before processing waiver claims.

Waivers are not processed until 2 am, which is after midnight and, therefore, waivers are prcessed after the unclaimed player clear the WW and become deisgnated as FAs. This allowed the commisioner to know whether there was any player who would clear waivers, and he immediately picked him up as a FA when Yahoo made those unclaimed players FAs

If there was a waiver claim for the particular player, the player would not be converted to a FA at midnight and the commish had two hours (till 2 am) to submit a waiver claim - and he then would have to have a high enough waiver priority to get the player through the normal waiver process.

Other owners submitted waiver requests for players they did not know were going to clear waivers.

If I have this right, the commish noticed that Yahoo processed all unclaimed players into free agents two hours before it processed the waiver claims. If that is incorrect, my bad for incorrectly interpreting your poorly explained situation.

Noone lost out on their waiver priority - but the commish got first shot at all players who were destined to clear the waiver wire because no other team claimed the player.

If there was a player who was claimed by some team, the commish had time to then submit a waiver wire claim and hope he got the player through thenormal waiver process.

Oh, and an additional note about Yahoo - if you submit a waiver claim, you go to the back of the line, whether or not you get the player you requested.

I am in one Yahoo league b/c the league's been together for 6 years and I just can NOT move any other owner off of Yahoo. Y! is simply FUBAR. Take advantage of their flaws and don't complain, or, as you learn about the flaws, you write rules going forward.

The commish didn't cheat - any one could have figured it out. He just happenedd to be on top of it, and he happened to be the commish so you are hjolding him to a higher standard - but he did not cheat. Had a non-commish owner done the same move, there would be no objections here.

NOw, if he used his commish powers to do something owners can't do, that is obvious cheating.

Otherwise, it's a Y!:

This is an incorrect statement. You only go to the back of the line if you actually submit a waiver claim and it goes through (whether or not there was another claim). If I put a claim in for RB Joe Blow and have a priority of 6, and you put in a claim for RB Joe Blow and have a priority of 2, you will get the RB and have your priority moved to the bottom. I will move up 1 priority spot because you dropped down.

 

[joey]

I've been the commish for a yahoo league for 5 years and I've been an owner in another yahoo

league for 8 years and this is a KNOWN "idiosyncrasy" with yahoo's system.

It gives no advantage to the commish over any of the other owners.

It only gives an advantage to owners who are willing to stay up until 12:01am PST

to see who has a waiver claim and who become free agents.

Yes, I myself have used this "feature" many times in the wee hours when I didn't want

to waste my waiver priority on one of 3 bye week WRs that I wanted to pick up (for example).

I just waited until 12:01am and picked up the WR that wasn't going to be claimed in a waiver

move.

Is it a perfect system? No.

But it's a "feature" that is there for EVERYONE to use however they want so you do yourself

a disservice by not taking advantage of it.

 

[hellz_fireflies]

There are a lot of leagues online that are fun and fair..My bottom pitful leagues are..CBS,Yahoo,and xpertsports..been on all (paid leagues) and they all suck to me.

 

[TC]

I was commish of a yahoo league. You cannot see everyone's waiver claim. The commish has NO advantage.

Confirmed. The commissioner has no viewing advantage.

 

[SickThing]

I've been the commish for a yahoo league for 5 years and I've been an owner in another yahooleague for 8 years and this is a KNOWN "idiosyncrasy" with yahoo's system.It gives no advantage to the commish over any of the other owners.It only gives an advantage to owners who are willing to stay up until 12:01am PSTto see who has a waiver claim and who become free agents.Yes, I myself have used this "feature" many times in the wee hours when I didn't wantto waste my waiver priority on one of 3 bye week WRs that I wanted to pick up (for example).I just waited until 12:01am and picked up the WR that wasn't going to be claimed in a waivermove.Is it a perfect system? No.But it's a "feature" that is there for EVERYONE to use however they want so you do yourselfa disservice by not taking advantage of it.

As I posted earlier, I watched this closely last night for 2 WRs on waivers in Y!leagues and it didn't hold true. The two who had no claims made on them (became FAs today) were still not available past 3:00am PST. I'll probably see what happens for tonights clearing waivers at 12:01am PST again. If the results are different, I'll let you know, but I doubt it will work different than it did the day before.

 

[joey]

I've been the commish for a yahoo league for 5 years and I've been an owner in another yahooleague for 8 years and this is a KNOWN "idiosyncrasy" with yahoo's system.It gives no advantage to the commish over any of the other owners.It only gives an advantage to owners who are willing to stay up until 12:01am PSTto see who has a waiver claim and who become free agents.Yes, I myself have used this "feature" many times in the wee hours when I didn't wantto waste my waiver priority on one of 3 bye week WRs that I wanted to pick up (for example).I just waited until 12:01am and picked up the WR that wasn't going to be claimed in a waivermove.Is it a perfect system? No.But it's a "feature" that is there for EVERYONE to use however they want so you do yourselfa disservice by not taking advantage of it.

As I posted earlier, I watched this closely last night for 2 WRs on waivers in Y!leagues and it didn't hold true. The two who had no claims made on them (became FAs today) were still not available past 3:00am PST. I'll probably see what happens for tonights clearing waivers at 12:01am PST again. If the results are different, I'll let you know, but I doubt it will work different than it did the day before.

I'm interested to see your results. As I said above, we've been using this "feature" in bothof my yahoo leagues to our advantage for many years now and it always has worked exactlythe same way:1) at 12:01am PST, all players not involved in a waiver claim become free agents2) all remaining players involved in a waiver move are then processed at some timethereafter when the Yahoo League Mega Super Computer Mainframe gets around to eachleague to work out the waivers.I've never seen a player listed with a "W" next to their name after 12:01am PST thathasn't subsequently be involved in a waiver move later that morning.I guess there is one potential caveat: an owner could put a waiver claim on Player A.He could then look at the available free agents at 12:01am and decide that he'd ratherhave Player B "for free" than use his waiver priority on Player A. I'm guessing he couldthen cancel his waiver move and make a free agent move for Palyer B. This might leadto having Player A *remain* on waivers until all the waiver moves are process later in themorning. Hmmm...now THAT would be sneaky...

 

[Marc Levin]

This might leadto having Player A *remain* on waivers until all the waiver moves are process later in themorning. Hmmm...now THAT would be sneaky...

To what end?

 

[Deadzone21]

I've been the commish for a yahoo league for 5 years and I've been an owner in another yahooleague for 8 years and this is a KNOWN "idiosyncrasy" with yahoo's system.It gives no advantage to the commish over any of the other owners.It only gives an advantage to owners who are willing to stay up until 12:01am PSTto see who has a waiver claim and who become free agents.Yes, I myself have used this "feature" many times in the wee hours when I didn't wantto waste my waiver priority on one of 3 bye week WRs that I wanted to pick up (for example).I just waited until 12:01am and picked up the WR that wasn't going to be claimed in a waivermove.Is it a perfect system? No.But it's a "feature" that is there for EVERYONE to use however they want so you do yourselfa disservice by not taking advantage of it.

1. Is this idiosyncrasy known to all owners in your league? If not, should it be disclosed? I think in all fairness that it should be. 2. Have you ever tried to submit a new waiver claim after midnight?

 

[[scooter]]

How did the rest of the league not notice this until now?

I mean.....all transactions are public knowledge, right?

 

[Deadzone21]

' date='Nov 2 2006, 08:19 PM' post='5840275']How did the rest of the league not notice this until now?I mean.....all transactions are public knowledge, right?

I can't speak for others but for me, I usually don't look at the time stamp of the transaction (just the date) also I just assumed that those transactions were waivers. I was more concerned with the which players were add/dropped and to what team Also on the league home page, the transactions don't show the time stamp. This was an especially busy waiver so I expanded the "view all" log file and noticed those two FA pickups about a couple of hours before the waiver pickups.

 

[joey]

This might leadto having Player A *remain* on waivers until all the waiver moves are process later in themorning. Hmmm...now THAT would be sneaky...

To what end?

Totally making this up as I go along since I don't actually know for sureif what I said is actually the way yahoo would handle it since I've nevertried to pull a "scam" like this in one of my leagues, but...Maybe Owner A could put a waiver request in for Player A, thensee that Player B is a free agent at 12:01am. Owner A could cancel thewaiver request for Player A, pick up Player B and hope that someoneelse now has to use their waiver priority on Player A.Like I said, I'm not sure if yahoo would keep Player A on the waiver listafter the waiver request is cancelled, but since we know that yahoo isdelayed in processing the waiver requests, I wonder if it wouldn't knowto take Player A off of waivers until after it processes all of the waiverrequests.Like I said, this is total speculation on my part since I've never testedthe yahoo system in this way.

 

[joey]

1. Is this idiosyncrasy known to all owners in your league? If not, should it be disclosed? I think in all fairness that it should be. 2. Have you ever tried to submit a new waiver claim after midnight?

1. Yes, it is now. It was discovered by one of the owners which promptedsome discussion among the owners. Once everyone understood exactlyhow this worked, everyone was cool with it just being part of the deal ofbeing in a yahoo league.2. Yes.

 

[Marc Levin]

1. Is this idiosyncrasy known to all owners in your league? If not, should it be disclosed?

Why should it be disclosed?

 

[SickThing]

I've been the commish for a yahoo league for 5 years and I've been an owner in another yahooleague for 8 years and this is a KNOWN "idiosyncrasy" with yahoo's system.It gives no advantage to the commish over any of the other owners.It only gives an advantage to owners who are willing to stay up until 12:01am PSTto see who has a waiver claim and who become free agents.Yes, I myself have used this "feature" many times in the wee hours when I didn't wantto waste my waiver priority on one of 3 bye week WRs that I wanted to pick up (for example).I just waited until 12:01am and picked up the WR that wasn't going to be claimed in a waivermove.Is it a perfect system? No.But it's a "feature" that is there for EVERYONE to use however they want so you do yourselfa disservice by not taking advantage of it.

As I posted earlier, I watched this closely last night for 2 WRs on waivers in Y!leagues and it didn't hold true. The two who had no claims made on them (became FAs today) were still not available past 3:00am PST. I'll probably see what happens for tonights clearing waivers at 12:01am PST again. If the results are different, I'll let you know, but I doubt it will work different than it did the day before.

I'm interested to see your results. As I said above, we've been using this "feature" in bothof my yahoo leagues to our advantage for many years now and it always has worked exactlythe same way:1) at 12:01am PST, all players not involved in a waiver claim become free agents2) all remaining players involved in a waiver move are then processed at some timethereafter when the Yahoo League Mega Super Computer Mainframe gets around to eachleague to work out the waivers.I've never seen a player listed with a "W" next to their name after 12:01am PST thathasn't subsequently be involved in a waiver move later that morning.I guess there is one potential caveat: an owner could put a waiver claim on Player A.He could then look at the available free agents at 12:01am and decide that he'd ratherhave Player B "for free" than use his waiver priority on Player A. I'm guessing he couldthen cancel his waiver move and make a free agent move for Palyer B. This might leadto having Player A *remain* on waivers until all the waiver moves are process later in themorning. Hmmm...now THAT would be sneaky...

I work online into the late night during most days, so it's easy to keep a couple extra browser windows open while I'm working here. As I did last night, I'm going to watch the waivers listed players as 12:01am PST passes and then I'll update this post with results later. This helps me to remember who I'm watching. Tonight all in the same 10 team league, we have Kitna, Leftwich, Barlow and N.Washington. I've been a league commisioner, but never on Yahoo! I think if your results are different than what I'm seeing in my couple of Y!leagues, then perhaps there's a waivers setting that might be different. The only thing in this regard that I see here under the "settings" link is "Waiver Time: 2 days".ETA: 12:05am PST update. As expected the 4 players on waivers all remain there. I'm not going to bother watching them further into the night because the revelation in a post below that my league doesn't have the same waivers settings which obviously behave differently in some othwer leagues for waivers on one day of the week.

 

[joey]

I work online into the late night during most days, so it's easy to keep a couple extra browser windows open while I'm working here. As I did last night, I'm going to watch the waivers listed players as 12:01am PST passes and then I'll update this post with results later. This helps me to remember who I'm watching. Tonight all in the same 10 team league, we have Kitna, Leftwich, Barlow and N.Washington. I've been a league commisioner, but never on Yahoo! I think if your results are different than what I'm seeing in my couple of Y!leagues, then perhaps there's a waivers setting that might be different. The only thing in this regard that I see here under the "settings" link is "Waiver Time: 2 days".

We have the same setting in my leagues as well as the yahoo plus optionof ALL players going on waivers from Sunday kickoff until Tuesday at midnight.I think that's all the waiver options that yahoo has available.

 

[Marc Levin]

This might leadto having Player A *remain* on waivers until all the waiver moves are process later in themorning. Hmmm...now THAT would be sneaky...

To what end?

Totally making this up as I go along since I don't actually know for sureif what I said is actually the way yahoo would handle it since I've nevertried to pull a "scam" like this in one of my leagues, but...Maybe Owner A could put a waiver request in for Player A, thensee that Player B is a free agent at 12:01am. Owner A could cancel thewaiver request for Player A, pick up Player B and hope that someoneelse now has to use their waiver priority on Player A.Like I said, I'm not sure if yahoo would keep Player A on the waiver listafter the waiver request is cancelled, but since we know that yahoo isdelayed in processing the waiver requests, I wonder if it wouldn't knowto take Player A off of waivers until after it processes all of the waiverrequests.Like I said, this is total speculation on my part since I've never testedthe yahoo system in this way.

I understand that - but to what end?The only time I could see it as useful is if you know someone with lower WW priority wants the player and you want to delay a Sunday waiver clearing.Regardless, the player wouldn't sit on waivers an "extra" 24 hours - he clears waivers sometime onthe day that he clears waivers. If you withdraw your claim, the player would clear whenever Y! processes that days' waivers - sometime before the following midnight, the player would clear waivers and become a FA.I assume that is why they don't allow you to drop a player involved in a waiver claim or use him for anything else - even another waiver claim.Y!'s league management software straight up sux.If you use it, you are subjecting yourself to their whims and flaws.Deal with it and take advantage - and there is no sense in thinking someone is behaving unethically when they figure out a flaw in Y!'s system and didn;t tell you about it. Keep looking, you'll probably find one that noone else has found yet.

 

[SickThing]

I work online into the late night during most days, so it's easy to keep a couple extra browser windows open while I'm working here. As I did last night, I'm going to watch the waivers listed players as 12:01am PST passes and then I'll update this post with results later. This helps me to remember who I'm watching. Tonight all in the same 10 team league, we have Kitna, Leftwich, Barlow and N.Washington.

I've been a league commisioner, but never on Yahoo! I think if your results are different than what I'm seeing in my couple of Y!leagues, then perhaps there's a waivers setting that might be different. The only thing in this regard that I see here under the "settings" link is "Waiver Time: 2 days".

We have the same setting in my leagues as well as the yahoo plus optionof ALL players going on waivers from Sunday kickoff until Tuesday at midnight.

I think that's all the waiver options that yahoo has available.

There's the rub I think. Are there some people confusing the Tuesday waivers with the others? Seems like this thread got started around the time of the week just after that day.Edit: typo.

 

[Deadzone21]

1. I am referring to the waivers on Tues. night (Wed. morning). I have no evidence that it'll work for other waivers (for dropped players). Looking back at the transaction history, he had been taking advantage of this flaw several times this season, and it has always occurred only during the Wed. morning waiver.

2. This being a shark pool, I naturally assumed it was understood how important waiver position can be and how taking advantage of this flaw gives an owner an unfair advantage. My biggest example would be, if owner A wanted to pick up waiver player A, he would have to sacrifice his waiver position even if no other owner had made a similar claim...dropping him to the end of the waiver order. If on the other hand, he was aware of this flaw, at midnight he could check to see if that player dropped to FA and then pick up that same player A without losing his waiver position.

My only beef is that, if you are the only owner in a league aware of this flaw and are taking advantage of this flaw without disclosing it, is that fair competitiveness? And, as commissioner, should you disclose this information to the league since IMO, fair/unfair, as commissioner, you unfortunately have a responsibility to ensure a fair level playing field for the league.

 

[Plainsman]

My only beef is that, if you are the only owner in a league aware of this flaw and are taking advantage of this flaw without disclosing it, is that fair competitiveness? And, as commissioner, should you disclose this information to the league since IMO, fair/unfair, as commissioner, you unfortunately have a responsibility to ensure a fair level playing field for the league.

IMO, everyone has a fair chance to figure this out on thier own. Why should the commish be handicapped from exploiting legal actions to his benifit? To me, this falls under the #1 advice to winning your league and that is to know your rules. I would be curious to know your respones to this question:Visiting here and posting here at FBG gives you an unfair advantage. You cannot deny this. Have you disclosed this site to your leaguemates? Would you expect your commish to inform everyone of this site if he were using it? I still think you should listen to me advice. Stop being jealous, dont make a stink, and let the other less intelligent owners catchup and figure it out on their own.

 

[Deadzone21]

My only beef is that, if you are the only owner in a league aware of this flaw and are taking advantage of this flaw without disclosing it, is that fair competitiveness? And, as commissioner, should you disclose this information to the league since IMO, fair/unfair, as commissioner, you unfortunately have a responsibility to ensure a fair level playing field for the league.

IMO, everyone has a fair chance to figure this out on thier own. Why should the commish be handicapped from exploiting legal actions to his benifit? To me, this falls under the #1 advice to winning your league and that is to know your rules. I would be curious to know your respones to this question:Visiting here and posting here at FBG gives you an unfair advantage. You cannot deny this. Have you disclosed this site to your leaguemates? Would you expect your commish to inform everyone of this site if he were using it? I still think you should listen to me advice. Stop being jealous, dont make a stink, and let the other less intelligent owners catchup and figure it out on their own.

1. I fail to see how being required to play in a fair and level playing field can be defined as being handicapped. and in addition, I still see it as part of being a commish that you have an added responsibility (part of the job description) to ensure a fair and level playing field.2. How can anyone define knowing an unpublished flaw/bug in Yahoo's system as being part of an owner's responsibility to know the rules? If there was a board post, or a small-print addendum at the end of the rules page, or similar notice, then, I could see this as an owner's fault of not knowing the rules.

3. IMO, Online sites (like FBG), magazines, tv/radio shows, how much time spent on any form of outside resources (and sacificing our so-called life), all qualify as outside the playing field. This would be like regulating how much time a real NFL player spends in the weight room or watching game films in order to regulate a fair game. These things are outside the playing field.

4. Jealousy has nothing to do with this argument, so try to stay on subject. If you have nothing useful to add, please don't bother with false accusations and name calling...and if calling out another owner (the commish) for questionable cheating is making a stink, okay then, I'm making a stink. BTW, I did call him out without actually accusing him of cheating. I simply told him, that at the very least, as commish, he should have notified the league of this bug, and his actions only tarnishes his rep and any success he can be proud of in his season (at least with me it does), and then proceeded to do his job, and post a description of the bug on the board.

 

[Plainsman]

1. I fail to see how being required to play in a fair and level playing field can be defined as being handicapped. and in addition, I still see it as part of being a commish that you have an added responsibility (part of the job description) to ensure a fair and level playing field.

2. How can anyone define knowing an unpublished flaw/bug in Yahoo's system as being part of an owner's responsibility to know the rules? If there was a board post, or a small-print addendum at the end of the rules page, or similar notice, then, I could see this as an owner's fault of not knowing the rules.

3. IMO, Online sites (like FBG), magazines, tv/radio shows, how much time spent on any form of outside resources (and sacificing our so-called life), all qualify as outside the playing field. This would be like regulating how much time a real NFL player spends in the weight room or watching game films in order to regulate a fair game. These things are outside the playing field.

4. Jealousy has nothing to do with this argument, so try to stay on subject. If you have nothing useful to add, please don't bother with false accusations and name calling...and if calling out another owner (the commish) for questionable cheating is making a stink, okay then, I'm making a stink. BTW, I did call him out without actually accusing him of cheating. I simply told him, that at the very least, as commish, he should have notified the league of this bug, and his actions only tarnishes his rep and any success he can be proud of in his season (at least with me it does), and then proceeded to do his job, and post a description of the bug on the board.

I going out of order cause somethings need to be mentioned first.2. There are flaws in everything. Im sure there are few leagues, if any at all, that address this situation in their rules. Therefore, it cant be "cheating" if there are no rules being broken. Everyone in your league has an equal opportunity to find and exploit this flaw.

3. Going along with 2, kudos to this commish for "sacificing [his] so-called life" to stay up and figure this flaw out. Its not like he created the flaw himself. To me, this is him (and you since you took the time to look at the logs and notice this flaw) going the extra effort just like athletes spending more time in the gym in the offseason to gain a competitive advantage.

1. Now that I have established that this is not cheating and perfectly legal, I will ask again why should anyone, more specifically the commish, devulge this info when it is within the rules. A controversial example, but one that I think applies here would be the use of Colston as a TE in Yahoo leagues. Everyone claims that everyone knew he was a WR before the drafts (at least most drafts). Well, if so then rules should have been made prior to draft to override Colston listing as WR/TE to just TE. If not then playing Colston is well within the rules. To add to this yahoo lists players, majority being rookies, as double postions yearly. To me, this yahoo flaw is no different than the waiver flaw. As mentioned before, it is within the rules and this owner/commish should be allowed to exploit it with out divulging it.

4. Im sorry maybe jealous is not PC, but how can you deny being ENVIOUS that you did not figure this out first. You denying this fact just proves it even more. To me, it sounds like you are not willing to stay up late to take advantage of this formality so you want to announce it to the rest of the league in attempt to prevent anyone from doing. Do yourself a favor and keep this to yourself. This is just like any other sport you find their, or a, weakness and exploit. Do you want to be a Manning and win/lose by skill alone or do you want to be like Brady and win it all by skill and smarts?

 

[soymex]

yeah my league is a west coast league mostly and i am on the east coast so when it is 3am here, one of the west coast guys was pulling that waiver move and knowing if he had to put in a claim or not. also since he was awake, he was able to get first dibs on the unclaimed FAs. not really cheating, but sort of lame.

the commish's solution was to tell everyone else that if they cared so much, they should set their alarm clocks...

 

[Deadzone21]

1. I fail to see how being required to play in a fair and level playing field can be defined as being handicapped. and in addition, I still see it as part of being a commish that you have an added responsibility (part of the job description) to ensure a fair and level playing field.

2. How can anyone define knowing an unpublished flaw/bug in Yahoo's system as being part of an owner's responsibility to know the rules? If there was a board post, or a small-print addendum at the end of the rules page, or similar notice, then, I could see this as an owner's fault of not knowing the rules.

3. IMO, Online sites (like FBG), magazines, tv/radio shows, how much time spent on any form of outside resources (and sacificing our so-called life), all qualify as outside the playing field. This would be like regulating how much time a real NFL player spends in the weight room or watching game films in order to regulate a fair game. These things are outside the playing field.

4. Jealousy has nothing to do with this argument, so try to stay on subject. If you have nothing useful to add, please don't bother with false accusations and name calling...and if calling out another owner (the commish) for questionable cheating is making a stink, okay then, I'm making a stink. BTW, I did call him out without actually accusing him of cheating. I simply told him, that at the very least, as commish, he should have notified the league of this bug, and his actions only tarnishes his rep and any success he can be proud of in his season (at least with me it does), and then proceeded to do his job, and post a description of the bug on the board.

I going out of order cause somethings need to be mentioned first.2. There are flaws in everything. Im sure there are few leagues, if any at all, that address this situation in their rules. Therefore, it cant be "cheating" if there are no rules being broken. Everyone in your league has an equal opportunity to find and exploit this flaw.

3. Going along with 2, kudos to this commish for "sacificing [his] so-called life" to stay up and figure this flaw out. Its not like he created the flaw himself. To me, this is him (and you since you took the time to look at the logs and notice this flaw) going the extra effort just like athletes spending more time in the gym in the offseason to gain a competitive advantage.

1. Now that I have established that this is not cheating and perfectly legal, I will ask again why should anyone, more specifically the commish, devulge this info when it is within the rules. A controversial example, but one that I think applies here would be the use of Colston as a TE in Yahoo leagues. Everyone claims that everyone knew he was a WR before the drafts (at least most drafts). Well, if so then rules should have been made prior to draft to override Colston listing as WR/TE to just TE. If not then playing Colston is well within the rules. To add to this yahoo lists players, majority being rookies, as double postions yearly. To me, this yahoo flaw is no different than the waiver flaw. As mentioned before, it is within the rules and this owner/commish should be allowed to exploit it with out divulging it.

4. Im sorry maybe jealous is not PC, but how can you deny being ENVIOUS that you did not figure this out first. You denying this fact just proves it even more. To me, it sounds like you are not willing to stay up late to take advantage of this formality so you want to announce it to the rest of the league in attempt to prevent anyone from doing. Do yourself a favor and keep this to yourself. This is just like any other sport you find their, or a, weakness and exploit. Do you want to be a Manning and win/lose by skill alone or do you want to be like Brady and win it all by skill and smarts?

Sorry to disappoint you, but I can honestly say, "nah, I would not take advantage of this flaw UNLESS the rest of the league was aware of it as well" (which they are now).And just an FYI - that "no life" comment was an inside joke, since the commish also reads these boards. And we both joke with each other about "no life" during the season.

But to get to that cheating deal. I agree. It may not be the hard-core grievous example of cheating, but it is what it is. Best example, I thought, came up in a conversation with the commish and another owner...Did the Yankee's cheat if they knew about Game 2's rain delay and didn't notify the Tigers. Probably not. It wasn't the Yankee's responsible and they certainly didn't cause the rain delay, but it still wasn't fair to the Tigers either. But, in this league, I still argue, that it is the commish's responsibility to notify the league.

I'll add another thing. I don't mind having "no life" to get the advantage of being the first to know of a Wed. practice injury or a starter being benched or the condition of a turf toe injury or a Friday night arrest. Maybe I spend too much time reading blogs, news bulletins and obscure football sites, but I draw the line at having to QA Yahoo's system (or any other online fantasy site) in order to get an advantage.

 

[Marc Levin]

Sorry to disappoint you, but I can honestly say, "nah, I would not take advantage of this flaw UNLESS the rest of the league was aware of it as well" (which they are now).

That is very noble of you - I imagine what you would do is notice the flaw, post to the league's message board about the flaw, and then go make the move.Using the move is not the thing you have a problem with - it is keeping it secret.However, the basis of your argument is that the commish has a responsibility to keep a fair playing field - I agree with that.That concept, however, is simply not applicable here. Imagine that it was not the commish taking advantage of the flaw. Any ole player may make the noble act of exposing the flaw, but he has no obligation to do so as an FF player. While that may not be the way you would handle it, it is simply not cheating and, therefore, the player has no obligation to disclose that info to the league.Why does the commish have an additional responsibility in this sitch just b/c of his obligation to keep a level playing field?

 

[LongDrivethenFoozle]

If it is an important "league" to you....and some large dollars involved......why not only include good friends? Glitch or not.....if it's a league of friends this would not occur. Respect for the "waiver" rank is a staple of any league, wether there is a "glitch" or not!!! I didn't pay close attention to the date you posted this.....but it's week 9......how in the hell could this have not been addressed at an earlier time? If guys in your league pull this type of BS.....you run with some low-lifes! Fantasy sports are the least of your problems.....

 

[bullitt]

This commish is doing absolutely nothing wrong, he just figured out something to his advantage that has nothing to do with him being commish. I find it hard to believe you "called him out" for being a smart team owner.

As an example, in my league, it was setup, from before the draft, to give points for return yds, right after the draft I noticed this and was able to pick up Welker and Hall off of the FA list. There was not one other owner that caught on that our league gave return points. Should I have told everyone about it to make sure they knew about the return yds, before I made my pickups ?? no way, I used it to my advantage and now have the #1 and #9 WR's in points in my league. Whether it is a rule, or a procedure, it's up to each owner to learn how to play the game.

The team owner you are talking about did not, in anyway , have an unfair advantage. He had an advantage, but it was not unfair, as it was available to all of the owners in your league.

 

[joey]

yeah my league is a west coast league mostly and i am on the east coast so when it is 3am here, one of the west coast guys was pulling that waiver move and knowing if he had to put in a claim or not. also since he was awake, he was able to get first dibs on the unclaimed FAs. not really cheating, but sort of lame.the commish's solution was to tell everyone else that if they cared so much, they should set their alarm clocks...

Funny. The east coast/west coast thing is exactly how I found out about this flaw in the first place.I commish a bi-coastal yahoo plus league. Last year, I was sick of having the east coasterspicking up free agents early Wednesday morning...if they get up for work at 6:30am EST,that's 3:30am PST (of course) for us west coasters...giving them first dibs at free agents. So,I stayed up a little late one week, expecting to have to wait until after the waivers cleared tomake a free agent move (yahoo usually processes the waivers in my leagues between 12:30-1:30am). As you can imagine, I was very happy to find this "flaw" in the system. I did this for a few weeksuntil someone noticed the time stamp thing on my moves and I had to explain how it wasn't"illegal" to the rest of my league. Everyone agreed and now everyone knows about it and understandsthat it's part of doing business in a yahoo league.Fun stuff!

 

[Plainsman]

Just thought this might help clarify the problem, or as about to be shown nonissue. Decided to look at the rules and it clearly states in this example, "So, if a player in a Public League is dropped on a Wednesday afternoon, all managers can claim him until Friday at 11:59 pm PT. The player will then be assigned to his new team roughly 4-8 hours after the claim deadline." Therefore, the other owner was taking advantage of nothing because if he was trying to avoid using his waiver priorty by staying up to see if a certain player had a claim he would not have been able to place a claim as the deadline to do such would have passed. Just thought I would let everyone know before they tried to take advantage of a loophole that does not exist.

Here is the link to the rules

http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/football/.../frules-13.html