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Yearly is this collusion tread? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Wrigley
- Start date
Boston
Footballguy
Yup...I was totally lost trying to figure out the Sister-Dad-Son trifecta...I'm not sure if the Wife/Sister/Mom/Grandmother is 25 or 75...gotta believe that will have a big influence on your strategy recommendation...
FarFromHome
Footballguy
I keep the leagues that satisfy my nerdy need for fantasy football separate from my family or work leagues for this reason. Way different mind sets on these very different type of leagues. My family league may have 20 transactions all year with 18 from me. My nerdy leagues have 20 transactions each week. Ha ha. I haven't vetoed a trade in literally decades. Although it looks off I see no reason to get involved here. I would use the message board to playfully go at the husband in an attempt to avoid anymore bad deals.
jumper
Footballguy
Came into the thread expecting something like "CMC for Zach Wilson," but only got a swap of worthless WRs and a RB4 for a guy who's on IR and hasn't played for a month.
I don't like this trade for husband, but if this is collusion it's pretty small stakes collusion. I'd let this one go and save your ammunition for a trade that truly is egregious.
I don't like this trade for husband, but if this is collusion it's pretty small stakes collusion. I'd let this one go and save your ammunition for a trade that truly is egregious.
Wrigley
Footballguy
Fixed the original
Guess I was a little fired up, it’s always the same thing with this couple
I put in a rule this year that in no way shape or form am I allowed to trade with my son (who just joined our league for first time) to avoid nonsense like this (nonsense meaning obvious collusion or others thinking collusion even when its not). Not worth the aggravation. No idea if thats collusion but Im also 3-6 and still making moves and trying to win out to make playoffs. With Achane on a bye and London hurt I can totally see making this trade for one last ditch effort.
Gruden's Keyboard
Footballguy
I'd be upset with that trade, even more so because they're related.
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I believe the winner should be decided by who drafts and manages their team the best...rather then who swindles the dummies in the league, or who best inbreds their team with their relatives.
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I believe the winner should be decided by who drafts and manages their team the best...rather then who swindles the dummies in the league, or who best inbreds their team with their relatives.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
If you have to ask, the answer is always [NO].
titusbramble
Footballguy
I'd prefer the Achane side, but this isn't close to collusion
London vs Ridley is reasonably close but I would by far rather have London because he is startable every week and Ridley is boom or bust. The only way I consider Gibson even close to Achane is it the person getting gibson also has robinson.....even then I think its rediculously lopsided. Is it collusion? Probably. Is there anything you can do about it? probably not. I would say that if this is a pattern with these 2 then the commish should have a talk with them.... Repeated lopsided trades between the same 2 people over and over will kill a league.
Wrigley
Footballguy
okay: this trade is collusion!!!!
Problem is it's a husband(3-6) trading with his wife(7-2)
once one team is out of it, a monster player gets traded.
Happens ever year.
The rest of the league has had enough.
Nobody is claiming he is a #1 BUT..... Im assuming he was injured week 1 with only 1 target, he was out last week, that leaves only 1 bad week (week 3) In half point ppr he has been fairly steady and startable each week. I know he hasnt lived up to expectations but unless you have great wrs I cant imagine benching him.. He has been as steady as any other startable wr. Ridley and London have scored almost the same points in my 1/2 ppr league (ridley has already had his bye) Ridley has games of: 4 pts, 5,5, and 1.... he has 2 boom games of 20 and 17... he has 2 decent games of 11. He has 3 games of 20 yds and 1 of 1 yd.... He has 2 games over 100 and 2 tds. Both guys are not performing up to standards but I take London over ridley and I think most people would also. If the trade were just ridley vs london nobody would bat an eye....when the trade also includes the number one rb before he went out with an injury who is about to come back vs a low level handcuff....well that is when the eyelids start to flutter. I think this IS collusion but with no way to prove it,it has to go through. IMO the family member getting the best end of both the trade with the good records vs the one with the bad record gets the worst end of both parts of the trade (and one of them by ALOT).
titusbramble
Footballguy
The trouble is that there is no guarantee that Achane will return to the volume of touches or the quality of play that he had pre injury. I'd rather have Ridley than London and I hate Ridley, and Gibson is a throw in. Is it even? No, but it's not hugely out of line. People seem to be talking as if Achane is a lock to return to solid RB1 numbers and that is in no way the case
Wrigley
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
What I want to know is whether sex was a condition of the trade.
Like, was she (or he) withholding unless a deal got done?
Definitely sketchy, if not collusion. That it's a husband & wife trading makes it more sketchy.
That said, is the 3-6 team mathematically eliminated? Ridley > London for FF purposes, and Achane > Gibson. If the 3-6 team can still make a wildcard, and has a surplus of RB but needs a WR upgrade, It's fine.
On paper without knowing the familial relations, the trade is fair in redraft. Gibson has been more involved lately & scored 15 in my PPR league this week.
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titusbramble
Footballguy
Well, if you think 10 yards a touch and a TD every seven touches is remotely sustainable then good luck with that
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
OK, with this added context, it probably is bad.
But
The trade isn't unfair. So it's hard to say they're cheating, *unless* the 3-6 team is eliminated from contention. If they're a receiver away it's just a trade.
I dont think anybody said there was a guarantee. Heck theres no guarantee any of these players even stay healthy. Doesnt he have massive upside and value over Gibson the throw in though ? If the other 2 are at least comparable in value ( ignoring which you would prefer) the trade boils down to Achane vs Gibson. ESpecially since Gibson will not be a handcuff this 1 for 1 trade stinks to high heavens. One has been number 1 rb in a time share even. The other has been a non productive backup. There are never any guarantees and if you are going to judge collusion including the word guarantee then you might as well stop even using the word collusion and make it a free for all.
efactor
Footballguy
Plus, what if McDaniel decides wise up and give him 16-18 touches a game for the playoff run? Guy is so dynamic and that isn't overdoing it since he has basically only played 4 games this year.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
I could be 1-10 and my wife 10-1. I'd still be trying to steal players from her roster. I'm a fair father, kind husband, but a ruthless fantasy owner. I'll rob an orphanage if it landed me a rb1. Charity for my wife? Hell no.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
In 3 of my leagues we have a husband & wife co-manage a team.
That works out well, though it makes trades much harder (she's smarter. lol)
Having husband & wife each manage teams can lead to this sort of thing. It sounds like this league is anticipating shenanigans, so even a fair deal might be overly scrutinized. I keep going back to the question of whether the 3-6 team is mathematically eliminated.
To me, that's the only reason this deal should be considered unscrupulous.
Otherwise it's the sort of deal we see all the time. If this deal were posted to the trades topic, I doubt anyone would take issue. I'm sure some some would prefer one side or the other. But because of the context, we have this topic.
That works out well, though it makes trades much harder (she's smarter. lol)
Having husband & wife each manage teams can lead to this sort of thing. It sounds like this league is anticipating shenanigans, so even a fair deal might be overly scrutinized. I keep going back to the question of whether the 3-6 team is mathematically eliminated.
To me, that's the only reason this deal should be considered unscrupulous.
Otherwise it's the sort of deal we see all the time. If this deal were posted to the trades topic, I doubt anyone would take issue. I'm sure some some would prefer one side or the other. But because of the context, we have this topic.
Wrigley
Footballguy
He's way outside looking in for the playoffs.
London and Ridley are basically the same player now, while Achane is giant steps above Gibson.
would you trade Achane for Gibson? No you wouldn't, and nobody on this board would either.
it
As a Mostert owner who has tried to trade him all year and has now given up I AM worried that this turns more into a 65-35 split or worse when Achane comes back. That high powered Miami offense suddely stopped putting up the huge numbers when Achane went out with injury.
Wrigley
Footballguy
I play in a league with my 3 brothers, there is no way in hell I'd "help" their teams out.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That's not what I asked. Is he eliminated?
No, they're not. One has Ridder/Heineke throwing to him and a run-centric head coach who seems lost on who his best players are. Ridley can be an alpha in JAX, and with Zay Jones hurt, his value arguably takes a jump.
No, but in redraft I might well ship Achane for Ridley. An undersized RB in a committee who keeps getting banged up for arguably the Jags WR1?
ETA, and from the other side, if I needed a RB, I would certainly offer Ridley for Achane believing it was a decent offer. Neither side of that is egregious, and deals aren't always perfectly even.
Yeah - I think you're slicing and dicing this to make it look worse than it is here. My $.02
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
But they were putting up huge numbers the first week when they ignored Achane, no?
Yes but even Calling him a top 15 rb is SEVERELY underselling him. He sits at rb 19 in my league 1/2 point ppr. Does that really make him rb 19 though? first game he didnt play....next game he had 1 carry...... games 3,4,and 5 he scored over 100 ff points and 450+ yards..... while theres no guarantee he will return t9 that level (I doubt he does) even HALF of that makes him a top 5 rb.
Wrigley
Footballguy
Yet, both London and Ridley have almost identical stat lines.
London 37-438-2
Ridley 33-451-2
He's not a WR away, he's got
Olave
Aiyuk
Nico
Dotson
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Would much rather have the Archane side by a mile. Trade looks shady.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Which doesn’t account for the game(s) Ridley was playing through injury, or that Zay Jones is now hurt, bumping Ridley’s likely target share.
I put Ridley even with Olave and ahead of the others.
Is the dude mathematically eliminated?
If not, I’m sorry, but this is a fair deal. It’s not a totally even deal, but if they weren’t husband & wife, this wouldn’t even be a topic imo. Deals don’t have to be perfectly even. It’s not like no value is going back the other way for Achane. Ridley could be a nice get.
If I saw this deal go down in a redraft it wouldn’t raise an eyebrow.
Wrigley
Footballguy
No he's not mathematically eliminated.
FBG's has Ridley ranked after Nico the rest of the season, fwiw.(they have a FBGs sub too)
And therein lies the problem, they are married, and have made obvious lopsided trades in the past.
imo, this is collusion
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I get it.
It sounds like context + history have a lot to do with the allegation.
It’s not a great deal. It wouldn’t rise to collusion accusations were they not married, or had the history.
Not sure what advice would help here. What’s the league considering in terms of actions?
Wrigley
Footballguy
Total mutanty
Half the league has threatened to quit at the end of the year if all 3 continue to play
I believe this trade is now dead
Sounds like you are doing the same. Zay Jones HAS been out the last 3 games..... What has Ridley done in that time? Scored 5, 1, and 11.3 points in 1/2 point ppr. He had 1 good game and 2 disasters. I would think we are far enough into the Ridley experiment in Jax to stop calling him an alpha. If there is an alpha (in terms of ff) on that team it is definitely Kirk. Ridley is what he is....a boom or bust wr who teams have figured out if you press him on D he cant get open. I agree London and Ridley arent the same player.London is far more steady. With all the negative things you said about London and the system he is in (which I mostly agree with except they have started throwing more). London and Ridley have almost the same number of ff points..... the difference is Ridley had 4 games where he scored well and the other games were all trash vs London who had 6 games where he didnt kill you, 1 week out and week 1 he got 1 target so i suspect he went out of that game. My choice between the 2 would be the alpha there with very little competition vs the non alpha who has more bad games and more competition in Jax. I think you are in the vast majority in thinking that London and Ridley arent close to the same in value. I guess if I had a weaker team I might lean Ridley over London for the boom affect I might need to win vs better teams but I dont tend to have weak teams so I would prefer London and his steadier production. No matter which you prefer the DO have a similar value roy everywhere I have looked. My 2 cents worth says the WRs are a wash and nobody would ever object to that trade. Gibson vs Achane is nowhere near a wash and why the trade is suspect.
eighsse2
Footballguy
I think sometimes you can say "this probably is collusion" but unless it's absolutely horrible you have to give a guy the benefit of the doubt.
Just like someone with a 3-8 record starting a guy projected at 8.4 over another guy projected at 12.1. There's sure to be "that guy" who is gonna accuse him of tanking. And he very well could be soft-tanking. But you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he puts scrubs in his lineup, that's different. Similarly, if the husband traded the wife Amon-Ra St. Brown and Travis Etienne for JuJu Smith-Schuster and Latavius Murray ... then you can call the cops.
Just like someone with a 3-8 record starting a guy projected at 8.4 over another guy projected at 12.1. There's sure to be "that guy" who is gonna accuse him of tanking. And he very well could be soft-tanking. But you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he puts scrubs in his lineup, that's different. Similarly, if the husband traded the wife Amon-Ra St. Brown and Travis Etienne for JuJu Smith-Schuster and Latavius Murray ... then you can call the cops.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
In a vacuum, no.
But given your knowledge of the relationship, it's recurrence each year, etc.....yeah, likely.
A trade doesn't have to be massively lopsided to be collusion. OP knows the details, history, and circumstances between these 2 individuals. That's enough for me to say yes.
But given your knowledge of the relationship, it's recurrence each year, etc.....yeah, likely.
A trade doesn't have to be massively lopsided to be collusion. OP knows the details, history, and circumstances between these 2 individuals. That's enough for me to say yes.
36 game 1 playing against an awful LAC pass defense..... Their running game was just mehh ran for 70ish yds on 20 carries. .... Hill went nuts. Game 2 they scored 24 points vs NE..... Mostert ran for 121 and 2 tds.... Didnt leave much out of the 24 points they scored for the passing game....... They were above average. But I dont think anyone would disagree that when Achane came in that really opened up that offense. Their next 3 games were 70, 20 vs buffalo and 31.
I think this is a fair assesment. I would say even the colluding family wouldnt even attempt that trade which would get the po po called on them. lol
pinkstapler
Footballguy
I'll say the quiet part out loud; if it's true this is a pattern of behavior that's gone on before in this league, why are you still in it? You seem pissed/upset about it, so even if it's not real collusion and detracting from the fairness of the league, it certainly seems to be detracting from your enjoyment of it. I understand some people who find themselves in these positions take the indignant stand of "I'm not going to let them ruin this for me." But 95% of the time, in actuality, that ship has already sailed. It's been ruined. You're on a message board with strangers complaining about it. Regardless of whether anyone in this thread agrees with you or not on if it's collusion, perception eventually becomes your own reality, and you sound pretty convinced the league's had repeated instances of collusion trades. Just quit the league and I'm fairly certain you'll be happier for it in the long run. That's what I would do at least if I was in the same position.
