Young Thug’s Lyrics Can be Entered as Evidence in YSL RICO Trial, Judge Rules (1 Viewer)

[rockaction]

So I remember getting criticized on this board for imagining such a thing.

Can you imagine getting criticized by all the lawyers like Henry Ford for merely imagining such an occurrence?

Young Thug’s Lyrics Can be Entered as Evidence in YSL RICO Trial, Judge Rules

The Atlanta rapper’s attorney called the decision a strike against free speech, while the prosecution has called the lyrics “party admissions”

pitchfork.com

 

[rockaction]

Evidence law -- at least federal evidence law -- holds that party admissions are exceptions to hearsay and therefore admissible in court. I merely asked why that would stop at recordings and that people would be well-advised to shut up about their crimes, especially bragging about them on these recordings.

This was met with utter hostility and derision from the board's esteemed lawyers. They started claiming that I was far out in left field.

Whither the lawyers now?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The poster you're referencing told me that I am raping my wife because we both like to drink a bit before happy time. I found out later on that he had sexually assaulted a girl in high school so this was probably just projection on the part of a person who had an abnormal sex life, but that exchange sure made an impression on me.

 

[rockaction]

The poster you're referencing told me that I am raping my wife because we both like to drink a bit before happy time

I remember that discussion. It wasn't so much him as the other lawyers telling me that I was wrong, but he was involved in the deluge. It was a point of law, and I simply pointed out the way the courts were heading with guys like Takashi 6-9 or whatever his name is. There was a donnybrook about that assertion. Too bad those guys are largely gone and I don't get to take receipts.

It does make for an interesting assertion by prosecutors, though, and I tend to agree with the free speech acts that legislatures are drawing up to protect the artists from this sort of prosecution. Can you imagine Guns N' Roses being taken to court for admitting they "drink and drive/everything's in sight" and do "Mr. Brownstone"?

 

[rockaction]

This probably wasn't threadworthy, but damn I remember the vitriol over merely suggesting this might come to pass.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

This probably wasn't threadworthy, but damn I remember the vitriol over merely suggesting this might come to pass.

I was not involved in any of that discussion- and haven’t read the story yet but it seems a pretty slippery slope to me. Springsteen made a career of creating blue collar narrators for his songs and never worked a day in his life. Interesting,and as to your main point, go rock!

 

[rockaction]

but it seems a pretty slippery slope to me. Springsteen made a career of creating blue collar narrators for his songs and never worked a day in his life

Seems awful slippery and like a curbing of speech if you ask me. Bruce is a good example.

In this case, the events talked about match events surrounding actual murders down to the actual cars and cars used, though. That said, those things are public knowledge already.

On the legal tip, I was merely saying that they either would do this and that it had been bubbling up to the surface for years or that they already had begun to do this. I forget when I started posting about it. Reason magazine was doing articles on this way back when prosecutor's offices were first entertaining this line of thought. The lawyers on the board reacted like I was arguing this was a normative thing, rather than me arguing it was going to happen or already happening. That was just weird. I was held up as this example of ALL THINGS WRONG with the world.

The PSF is dead. Long live the PSF?

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

This probably wasn't threadworthy, but damn I remember the vitriol over merely suggesting this might come to pass.

Warren Zevon would be screwed.

I sense a case heading for the Supreme Court.

 

[Zow]

Can you link the thread?

I don’t recall this but I’m sure I would have commented and, if I did, I’d like the opportunity to either explain what I said and why or, if I was just wrong, acknowledge that.

 

[Zow]

The poster you're referencing told me that I am raping my wife because we both like to drink a bit before happy time. I found out later on that he had sexually assaulted a girl in high school so this was probably just projection on the part of a person who had an abnormal sex life, but that exchange sure made an impression on me.

Wait what?

 

[rockaction]

Can you link the thread?

I already looked and can’t find it. Believe me when I say I would love for people to look at those multiple threads the issue was argued. You were not a player in that thread, but feel free to comment on what you thought then and what you think now.

 

[rockaction]

The poster you're referencing told me that I am raping my wife because we both like to drink a bit before happy time. I found out later on that he had sexually assaulted a girl in high school so this was probably just projection on the part of a person who had an abnormal sex life, but that exchange sure made an impression on me.

Wait what?

Yes, in some states, I believe drunken sex is rape. In this case, marital rape. Henry was telling IK that and coming perilously close to arguing for it in a normative sense. I remember IK’s chagrin.

It’s predicated on consent and the ability to do so. It’s NY law, as my freshman orientation had it front and center. This was 1992. Not a new concept, really.

 

[Zow]

Can you link the thread?

I already looked and can’t find it. Believe me when I say I would love for people to look at those multiple threads the issue was argued. You were not a player in that thread, but feel free to comment on what you thought then and what you think now.

Ah, I had just assumed I was.

I’ll have to read the article but, given how many of my own cases with unique issues that I’ve had misreported, I’ll likely be hesitant to provide a clear opinion without seeing the briefs on the issue.

 

[Zow]

The poster you're referencing told me that I am raping my wife because we both like to drink a bit before happy time. I found out later on that he had sexually assaulted a girl in high school so this was probably just projection on the part of a person who had an abnormal sex life, but that exchange sure made an impression on me.

Wait what?

Yes, in some states, I believe drunken sex is rape. In this case, marital rape. Henry was telling IK that and coming perilously close to arguing for it in a normative sense. I remember IK’s chagrin.

It’s predicated on consent and the ability to do so. It’s NY law, as my freshman orientation had it front and center. This was 1992. Not a new concept, really.

I understand the concept and the law, I was more so commenting on the claim that Henry Ford was convicted of rape or some such.

 

[rockaction]

I was more so commenting on the claim that Henry Ford was convicted of rape or some such.

I think Ivan is saying he committed the behavior he was saying was rape.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I clicked on this thread out of a bit of curiosity and I’m not sure if this was a post meant to generate discussion or a post to gloat over a former PSF discussion where the OP feels like he was wronged by a poster who doesn’t even post here anymore.

 

[rockaction]

I clicked on this thread out of a bit of curiosity and I’m not sure if this was a post meant to generate discussion or a post to gloat over a former PSF discussion where the OP feels like he was wronged by a poster who doesn’t even post here anymore

It's both. It wasn't just that one poster. It was a whole bunch that post in the FFA and I just figured I'd remind them with a post in the FFA.

And it's certainly there to generate discussion about lyrics and speech. Don't let my gloating get in the way of a real issue (that I was right about). But, I gloat too much. Really, I do.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The poster you're referencing told me that I am raping my wife because we both like to drink a bit before happy time. I found out later on that he had sexually assaulted a girl in high school so this was probably just projection on the part of a person who had an abnormal sex life, but that exchange sure made an impression on me.

Wait what?

Yes, in some states, I believe drunken sex is rape. In this case, marital rape. Henry was telling IK that and coming perilously close to arguing for it in a normative sense. I remember IK’s chagrin.

It’s predicated on consent and the ability to do so. It’s NY law, as my freshman orientation had it front and center. This was 1992. Not a new concept, really.

I understand the concept and the law, I was more so commenting on the claim that Henry Ford was convicted of rape or some such.

No, it was a Kavanaugh-type thing that back in the day we would have described as "getting handsy." But the poster in question had less than nuanced opinions about any of this stuff.

 

[rockaction]

No, it was a Kavanaugh-type thing that back in the day we would have described as "getting handsy."

Sorry about that. I must be remembering the time he and Koya threw a legitimate four-page fit because I said the word “tranny.” They wanted me to apologize and were apoplectic I’d used the word. Turns out, he was using the same word on the board a year earlier and jamny caught him. His was worse — he was talking about having sex with “trannies” as an insult. We all forgave each other, but I never forgot the righteous indignation with which I was treated by a guy who had done the same thing, only worse. And it was right there on this board for all to see. Blessed. Truly blessed.

 

[rockaction]

What a good thing that the PSF is shut down now. Stifles some discussion, but it was a crapfest.

Anyway, back to YSL.

 

[rockaction]

And I just have a feeling people lurk, so this is extra special.

 

[HellToupee]

I was more so commenting on the claim that Henry Ford was convicted of rape or some such.

I think Ivan is saying he committed the behavior he was saying was rape.

Wait do-gooder Henry Ford is a rapist?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I clicked on this thread out of a bit of curiosity and I’m not sure if this was a post meant to generate discussion or a post to gloat over a former PSF discussion where the OP feels like he was wronged by a poster who doesn’t even post here anymore.

A little from Column A, a little from Column B.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I was more so commenting on the claim that Henry Ford was convicted of rape or some such.

I think Ivan is saying he committed the behavior he was saying was rape.

Wait do-gooder Henry Ford is a rapist?

They’re not mutually exclusive.

 

[rockaction]

I'm not sure this went so well. That's on me. I should not have named a name. I just wanted to post to both stimulate discussion and air a grievance. Certain things have been said on this board that stick in my craw, and this was one instance. It wasn't even really the person I named; instead, it was a bunch of people.

Shouldn't have started the thread.

 

[The Z Machine]

So this is the football spiking thread?

 

[rockaction]

I'm not singling out Jayrod nor condemning him, but I'd ask that we stop talking about a member that is no longer here. I didn't think it would take this sort of turn. I mean, I'm not a moderator, but this seems like bad form.

Thanks.

 

[eoMMan]

It’s silly, imo, to use rap lyrics to convict someone of a crime. The only exception I think would be if the lyrics contained wildly specific details that only the suspect would know.

 

[rockaction]

The only exception I think would be if the lyrics contained wildly specific details that only the suspect would know.

I agree. There is so much room for error and speculation on a jury's part that it prejudices the case to even bring stuff like that into evidence.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I was completely unaware of this trial and have no idea what/who YSL is. It’s weird that I saw this thread pop up on the FFA, and I go on YouTube—and this video was on the homepage for me. It’s pretty informative. With that said—I think I’d need to know more before having an opinion on if lyrics should be allowed. One thing that the video does cover is that the lyrics are not just allowed full carte blanche. Some of the lyrics are allowed only to be used as evidence to allow specific factors: for example—this is a RICO case—which implies a group/organization criminal ring—so lyrics that imply/show that members acted in an organizational fashion would be allowed..etc. Here is the link to the video in case you wanted specifics of what exactly is and isn’t being allowed. The lawyer that made this video seems to indicate if allowing lyrics/videos would/could be inflammatory to jurors that are not into or familiar with rap music.

Judge Allows Lyrics as Evidence & Erupts at Prosecutor Over Late Evidence in YSL Trial

Go to https://esign.com to Make Remote Deals EasierCriminal Lawyer Bruce Rivers Reacts to American Lawyer in Panama Shoots & Kills Two ProtestersLinktree: ht...

www.youtube.com