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Your brand new franchise may select one of these players... (1 Viewer)

Who would you take from the 2005 top 10?

  • Smith

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Brown

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Edwards

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Benson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • C. Williams

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jones

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Williamson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rolle

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rogers

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • M. Williams

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
Ronnie Brown - I dont think the problem with Brown is his skill level or talent level. The problem lies in the Miami front office for not having built an offensive line that can create holes. 2005 they take Brown and then Matt Roth and Channing Crowder. This team should have gone offensive line.

2006 - Jason Allen, yet the offensive line is still really lacking. They would have been better served taking Winston Justice or Nick Mangold. With no second round pick they should have traded back.

There has been NO TEAM that has shown the complete lack of drafting ability as the Miami Dolphins. They have been 100% inadequate. They are the problem in Miami. They do nothing right. Maybe its the curse of Coach Wandstadt.

 
Smith [ 9 ] ** [31.03%]

Brown [ 6 ] ** [20.69%]

Edwards [ 10 ] ** [34.48%]

Benson [ 2 ] ** [6.90%]

C. Williams [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

Jones [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]

Williamson [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

Rolle [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

Rogers [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]

M. Williams [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

:shrug:
He's probably the second best CB in the entire NFL behind Champ, and the second best returner in the entire NFL besides Hester. He's an amazing, amazing, amazing, franchise-changing talent. The rest of the top-10 seems like a whole bunch of mediocre, the kind of guys you could easily and cheaply replace through free agency... so instead of getting a player I could easily replace with a mediocre guy off the street, why not get a franchise-changing talent and back him up with a mediocre guy off the street? If he winds up playing his way out of the NFL thanks to his $.02 head, then you're not really any worse off than the franchise that wound up with Caddy Williams or Ronnie Brown... but if you can actually hold him together, then man... wow.Hell, Lawrence Taylor had off-the-field issues, too. I'm not saying Pacman is in the same league as LT, but if LT was on that list, don't you think he'd get 100% of the votes, character concerns be damned?
LT never got suspended for a year. You'd really build a franchise around a guy who can't play for a year, and even then has to prove an ability to stay out of trouble that has not been evident to date? All this, knowing he can't come to your facilities or have the structure of practices, etc? Really?!??! Talent or not, that's a huge risk.
LT would have never had a NFL career if Goodell had been in charge when he was playing. If its 2005, I'm gonna have to assume I'm not going to wind up with a commissioner intent on ending careers.
 
I chose Jones - he is a very talented, play-making cornerback in a league that has very few of them. Plus he is a big difference-maker in the return game. Compared to the rest of those guys, he's the most talented. And at the very least, his suspensions mean at least I wouldn't have to pay him (and if he gets banned I can go after some of the signing bonus), so the financial risk isn't as considerable. It's better than paying top 10 money to a guy like Williamson.

 
Smith [ 9 ] ** [31.03%]

Brown [ 6 ] ** [20.69%]

Edwards [ 10 ] ** [34.48%]

Benson [ 2 ] ** [6.90%]

C. Williams [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

Jones [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]

Williamson [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

Rolle [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

Rogers [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]

M. Williams [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

:bag:
He's probably the second best CB in the entire NFL behind Champ, and the second best returner in the entire NFL besides Hester. He's an amazing, amazing, amazing, franchise-changing talent. The rest of the top-10 seems like a whole bunch of mediocre, the kind of guys you could easily and cheaply replace through free agency... so instead of getting a player I could easily replace with a mediocre guy off the street, why not get a franchise-changing talent and back him up with a mediocre guy off the street? If he winds up playing his way out of the NFL thanks to his $.02 head, then you're not really any worse off than the franchise that wound up with Caddy Williams or Ronnie Brown... but if you can actually hold him together, then man... wow.Hell, Lawrence Taylor had off-the-field issues, too. I'm not saying Pacman is in the same league as LT, but if LT was on that list, don't you think he'd get 100% of the votes, character concerns be damned?
LT never got suspended for a year. You'd really build a franchise around a guy who can't play for a year, and even then has to prove an ability to stay out of trouble that has not been evident to date? All this, knowing he can't come to your facilities or have the structure of practices, etc? Really?!??! Talent or not, that's a huge risk.
LT would have never had a NFL career if Goodell had been in charge when he was playing. If its 2005, I'm gonna have to assume I'm not going to wind up with a commissioner intent on ending careers.
It doesn't say what would you have done back in 2005, it's which one do you want. I presume this to mean right now. And right now, Adam Jones is suspended for another 14 games and has to be squeaky clean until next spring in order to get back in.
 
In that case, I'd probably still take Jones. His talent and athleticism is just on another level to these guys.

 
Mungo Burrows said:
Smith [ 9 ] ** [31.03%]

Brown [ 6 ] ** [20.69%]

Edwards [ 10 ] ** [34.48%]

Benson [ 2 ] ** [6.90%]

C. Williams [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

Jones [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]

Williamson [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

Rolle [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

Rogers [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]

M. Williams [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

:rant:
He's probably the second best CB in the entire NFL behind Champ, and the second best returner in the entire NFL besides Hester. He's an amazing, amazing, amazing, franchise-changing talent. The rest of the top-10 seems like a whole bunch of mediocre, the kind of guys you could easily and cheaply replace through free agency... so instead of getting a player I could easily replace with a mediocre guy off the street, why not get a franchise-changing talent and back him up with a mediocre guy off the street? If he winds up playing his way out of the NFL thanks to his $.02 head, then you're not really any worse off than the franchise that wound up with Caddy Williams or Ronnie Brown... but if you can actually hold him together, then man... wow.Hell, Lawrence Taylor had off-the-field issues, too. I'm not saying Pacman is in the same league as LT, but if LT was on that list, don't you think he'd get 100% of the votes, character concerns be damned?
LT never got suspended for a year. You'd really build a franchise around a guy who can't play for a year, and even then has to prove an ability to stay out of trouble that has not been evident to date? All this, knowing he can't come to your facilities or have the structure of practices, etc? Really?!??! Talent or not, that's a huge risk.
Well, when we're talking about starting a franchise, I'm assuming we aren't talking about starting a franchise, getting it all together, and having it start play by week 3 of this NFL football season. As a result, I was operating under the assumption that we'd either get the 2005 version of the player in question (in which case he hasn't been suspended yet), or else we'd get the 2008 version (in which case he'll be finished serving his suspension).Since this is a "knowing what we know now" excercise, I would draft Pacman Jones knowing what I know now. I would also give him a contract far above what his draft slot would dictate, but put in stipulations that if he ran afoul of the law, he would have to return ALL OF IT. I'd also spend a big chunk of change hiring a "personal assistant" (read: babysitter) whose sole job would be to drive him around everywhere and making sure he didn't get in trouble. Obviously, he'd be resistant to both stipulations, but I suspect an extra $10 or $20 million would be more than enough incentive to get him to swallow his concerns.

Even if we're playing where I'd inherit his 1-year suspension, I'd be fine with that. Again, I'd give him a huge contract with lots of behavior clauses. If he had to sit out year one of my franchise's expansion season, that'd be okay, because my franchise certainly wouldn't be making ANY noise in its expansion season, anyway.

I'm not denying that it's a huge risk, but I feel like you can get guys comparable to the other 9 for chump change. The only player on that list who is among the top half of starters at his position is Braylon Edwards, but he's just a WR. Randy Moss changed teams for a 4th rounder last year, Javon Walker went for a 2nd rounder the year before that, and Terrell Owens was available as a free agent. If I want a franchise WR, I can get one without going after Braylon Edwards. If I want a mediocre RB, I can get one much better and cheaper than Caddy Williams or Ronnie Brown (witness Travis Henry). If I want a franchise QB, I wouldn't want to get him in year 1 of expansion, because he'd get killed, and I'll be drafting with another top 10 pick next year, anyway. The only guy on that list who is better than something I could get off the street is Pacman, which more than makes him worth the risk.

Colin Dowling said:
and the second best returner in the entire NFL besides Hester.
He was statistically better then Hester last year.
On punt returns, yeah, but Hester was better on kick returns, and remember that Hester was just a rookie last year (Hester's rookie year was better than Pacman's, which strikes me as a more comparable sample). In addition, and maybe this is just unfounded speculation, I see Hester as the kind of guy who will be a dual-returner for his entire career, while I think Pacman will eventually just be a punt returner and CB. As a result, if you tell me I can pick one NFL player to handle returns for my team, I'm taking Hester.
 
Mungo Burrows said:
Smith [ 9 ] ** [31.03%]

Brown [ 6 ] ** [20.69%]

Edwards [ 10 ] ** [34.48%]

Benson [ 2 ] ** [6.90%]

C. Williams [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

Jones [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]

Williamson [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

Rolle [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

Rogers [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]

M. Williams [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

:shrug:
He's probably the second best CB in the entire NFL behind Champ, and the second best returner in the entire NFL besides Hester. He's an amazing, amazing, amazing, franchise-changing talent. The rest of the top-10 seems like a whole bunch of mediocre, the kind of guys you could easily and cheaply replace through free agency... so instead of getting a player I could easily replace with a mediocre guy off the street, why not get a franchise-changing talent and back him up with a mediocre guy off the street? If he winds up playing his way out of the NFL thanks to his $.02 head, then you're not really any worse off than the franchise that wound up with Caddy Williams or Ronnie Brown... but if you can actually hold him together, then man... wow.Hell, Lawrence Taylor had off-the-field issues, too. I'm not saying Pacman is in the same league as LT, but if LT was on that list, don't you think he'd get 100% of the votes, character concerns be damned?
LT never got suspended for a year. You'd really build a franchise around a guy who can't play for a year, and even then has to prove an ability to stay out of trouble that has not been evident to date? All this, knowing he can't come to your facilities or have the structure of practices, etc? Really?!??! Talent or not, that's a huge risk.
Well, when we're talking about starting a franchise, I'm assuming we aren't talking about starting a franchise, getting it all together, and having it start play by week 3 of this NFL football season. As a result, I was operating under the assumption that we'd either get the 2005 version of the player in question (in which case he hasn't been suspended yet), or else we'd get the 2008 version (in which case he'll be finished serving his suspension).Since this is a "knowing what we know now" excercise, I would draft Pacman Jones knowing what I know now. I would also give him a contract far above what his draft slot would dictate, but put in stipulations that if he ran afoul of the law, he would have to return ALL OF IT. I'd also spend a big chunk of change hiring a "personal assistant" (read: babysitter) whose sole job would be to drive him around everywhere and making sure he didn't get in trouble. Obviously, he'd be resistant to both stipulations, but I suspect an extra $10 or $20 million would be more than enough incentive to get him to swallow his concerns.

Even if we're playing where I'd inherit his 1-year suspension, I'd be fine with that. Again, I'd give him a huge contract with lots of behavior clauses. If he had to sit out year one of my franchise's expansion season, that'd be okay, because my franchise certainly wouldn't be making ANY noise in its expansion season, anyway.

I'm not denying that it's a huge risk, but I feel like you can get guys comparable to the other 9 for chump change. The only player on that list who is among the top half of starters at his position is Braylon Edwards, but he's just a WR. Randy Moss changed teams for a 4th rounder last year, Javon Walker went for a 2nd rounder the year before that, and Terrell Owens was available as a free agent. If I want a franchise WR, I can get one without going after Braylon Edwards. If I want a mediocre RB, I can get one much better and cheaper than Caddy Williams or Ronnie Brown (witness Travis Henry). If I want a franchise QB, I wouldn't want to get him in year 1 of expansion, because he'd get killed, and I'll be drafting with another top 10 pick next year, anyway. The only guy on that list who is better than something I could get off the street is Pacman, which more than makes him worth the risk.
I like your thinking. Has any team tried this, and would the NFLPA approve?
Colin Dowling said:
and the second best returner in the entire NFL besides Hester.
He was statistically better then Hester last year.
On punt returns, yeah, but Hester was better on kick returns, and remember that Hester was just a rookie last year (Hester's rookie year was better than Pacman's, which strikes me as a more comparable sample). In addition, and maybe this is just unfounded speculation, I see Hester as the kind of guy who will be a dual-returner for his entire career, while I think Pacman will eventually just be a punt returner and CB. As a result, if you tell me I can pick one NFL player to handle returns for my team, I'm taking Hester.
Would you rather have a KR/PR or a PR who has another important position? I might be wrong, but I see CB as more important than KR.
 
Mungo Burrows said:
Smith [ 9 ] ** [31.03%]

Brown [ 6 ] ** [20.69%]

Edwards [ 10 ] ** [34.48%]

Benson [ 2 ] ** [6.90%]

C. Williams [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

Jones [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]

Williamson [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

Rolle [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

Rogers [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]

M. Williams [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]

:shrug:
He's probably the second best CB in the entire NFL behind Champ, and the second best returner in the entire NFL besides Hester. He's an amazing, amazing, amazing, franchise-changing talent. The rest of the top-10 seems like a whole bunch of mediocre, the kind of guys you could easily and cheaply replace through free agency... so instead of getting a player I could easily replace with a mediocre guy off the street, why not get a franchise-changing talent and back him up with a mediocre guy off the street? If he winds up playing his way out of the NFL thanks to his $.02 head, then you're not really any worse off than the franchise that wound up with Caddy Williams or Ronnie Brown... but if you can actually hold him together, then man... wow.Hell, Lawrence Taylor had off-the-field issues, too. I'm not saying Pacman is in the same league as LT, but if LT was on that list, don't you think he'd get 100% of the votes, character concerns be damned?
LT never got suspended for a year. You'd really build a franchise around a guy who can't play for a year, and even then has to prove an ability to stay out of trouble that has not been evident to date? All this, knowing he can't come to your facilities or have the structure of practices, etc? Really?!??! Talent or not, that's a huge risk.
Well, when we're talking about starting a franchise, I'm assuming we aren't talking about starting a franchise, getting it all together, and having it start play by week 3 of this NFL football season. As a result, I was operating under the assumption that we'd either get the 2005 version of the player in question (in which case he hasn't been suspended yet), or else we'd get the 2008 version (in which case he'll be finished serving his suspension).Since this is a "knowing what we know now" excercise, I would draft Pacman Jones knowing what I know now. I would also give him a contract far above what his draft slot would dictate, but put in stipulations that if he ran afoul of the law, he would have to return ALL OF IT. I'd also spend a big chunk of change hiring a "personal assistant" (read: babysitter) whose sole job would be to drive him around everywhere and making sure he didn't get in trouble. Obviously, he'd be resistant to both stipulations, but I suspect an extra $10 or $20 million would be more than enough incentive to get him to swallow his concerns.

Even if we're playing where I'd inherit his 1-year suspension, I'd be fine with that. Again, I'd give him a huge contract with lots of behavior clauses. If he had to sit out year one of my franchise's expansion season, that'd be okay, because my franchise certainly wouldn't be making ANY noise in its expansion season, anyway.

I'm not denying that it's a huge risk, but I feel like you can get guys comparable to the other 9 for chump change. The only player on that list who is among the top half of starters at his position is Braylon Edwards, but he's just a WR. Randy Moss changed teams for a 4th rounder last year, Javon Walker went for a 2nd rounder the year before that, and Terrell Owens was available as a free agent. If I want a franchise WR, I can get one without going after Braylon Edwards. If I want a mediocre RB, I can get one much better and cheaper than Caddy Williams or Ronnie Brown (witness Travis Henry). If I want a franchise QB, I wouldn't want to get him in year 1 of expansion, because he'd get killed, and I'll be drafting with another top 10 pick next year, anyway. The only guy on that list who is better than something I could get off the street is Pacman, which more than makes him worth the risk.
I like your thinking. Has any team tried this, and would the NFLPA approve?
I don't think any team has ever gone so far as to hire a professional babysitter, but several teams have put stipulations into contracts that if a player gets in any trouble, they get all the money back. Castillo, for instance, would never have gone in the first round if he hadn't made it clear he was willing to agree to a provision that would require him to return all of the money he had been paid if he ever tested positive for steroids again.
Colin Dowling said:
and the second best returner in the entire NFL besides Hester.
He was statistically better then Hester last year.
On punt returns, yeah, but Hester was better on kick returns, and remember that Hester was just a rookie last year (Hester's rookie year was better than Pacman's, which strikes me as a more comparable sample). In addition, and maybe this is just unfounded speculation, I see Hester as the kind of guy who will be a dual-returner for his entire career, while I think Pacman will eventually just be a punt returner and CB. As a result, if you tell me I can pick one NFL player to handle returns for my team, I'm taking Hester.
Would you rather have a KR/PR or a PR who has another important position? I might be wrong, but I see CB as more important than KR.
Pacman Jones is a SIGNIFICANTLY better player than Hester, and the guy I would much, much, much rather build my franchise around, even given his "two-cent head". I was simply saying that Hester is a better returner, IMO. Pacman is clearly superior at everything else. If you told me to pick a player solely to handle returns for my team, I'd take Hester. If you told me to pick a player for me to use as I saw fit, I'd take Pacman.
 

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