Youth Sports- Coach Jerk Move or Fair Game? (1 Viewer)

[Gally]

This league, the playing time is supposed to be "equal" but there really is no enforcement of it and it does not specify that equal means per game.

So basically there are no minimum playing time rules. If that is the case the other guy can do what he wants and I wouldn't really worry about wasting brain waves on thinking about what they are doing. Just like someone else said, our league at this age group had min play time requirements and the way my league did it was really a terrible way to do it. We had to play every a player a minimum of two uninterrupted quarters. if you played a partial quarter due to foul trouble or tired or whatever it didn't count as a quarter played. It became problematic really quick.

A team with 8 players was in quite the bind but the biggest problem is there were kids that just couldn't manage playing a full uninterrupted quarter. I lobbied to change it to still require a half game minimum play time but allow half quarters. That would have worked much better. I was able to do this with some coaches as a coaches agreement before the game but other coaches wouldn't do it and I couldn't get the league to change. It wasn't changing the ultimate goal (kids playing a min of half the game) but they didn't want to change it. It sucks that you have to even have rules like this but bad coaches have led to these type of things.



Nobody will care about 5th grade wins in 20 years, but they will care about getting better (if they want to keep playing) and that is what your goal is as a coach (which I know you know).

 

[Gally]

1) This was a home game. All of our home games are on Youtube live and then kept there. Other teams, specially in playoffs, will use it to scout. 2) I wanted to be able to spring this on them in the playoffs and not get them ready for it now. 3) We still need more time to practice it. If we play them again, which if we do would most likely be the Championship game for one of our leagues, we will use it.

At this age level I would much rather get the game practice in for the development of my kids over worrying about being scouted for some future game that may or may not happen (getting to the championship game). The best practice is game speed against other teams. This is supposed to be for development with winning as a byproduct so use the games to help develop.

Just my philosophy on this age group. Too many coaches worry about winning and what other teams are doing. I prefer focusing on my players and their improvement. I treat games like a learning opportunity because you can't get game speed/opponent variance in practice. Sure I want to win but development is more important.

 

[Dickies]

Has there ever been any discussion for having the team that is way up play with 4 players instead of 5? Maybe based on points or something?

Once you go up by 20 you play with 4 players.

You go up by 30 you play with 3?

I don't know if that makes the losing team feel bad but maybe the 4 player thing might work.

I am not a fan of this approach. Blowouts happen in sports. It is part of the game. Doing something this obvious is a worse slap to the face then just losing big. But pulling better players out to let other players develop and get chances at doing more is part of what a 5th grade coach should be focusing on. That is the way to address blowouts but not all coaches will do that.

When I coached rec soccer for my son they made us do this when we were up by 3 goals and would make us pull an additional player for each additional goal we went ahead. I hated it, and would always ask the opposing coach if they wanted me to pull kids. Most wanted the full squad kept on the field as they found it embarrassing to be playing against a team that is short-handed.

My objection to pulling kids is that I think they all deserve as much playing time as the kids on the other team, so I would make an effort to put the kids who score the most goals on defense, and move the less athletic kids up on offense and also implement a 5 pass minimum rule before they can take a shot. Use it as an opportunity for development versus punishment.

 

[Gally]

My objection to pulling kids is that I think they all deserve as much playing time as the kids on the other team,

This is my biggest objection to this rule. Give the lesser kids more play time because they need development and experience too. This rule robs you of the opportunity to this. It really is a counter to developing everyone on the team and giving all kids a chance to play as much as possible.

I found in soccer that when we tried to move defensive players up and offensive players back they ended up migrating to where they were comfortable and it didn't quite work as well as we had wanted it to (getting players to try different things). They all wanted to go to where they were comfortable. It had us coaches screaming at the "defenders" to stay up and try and score......hahahahah

 

[acarey50]

In 5th grade I think playing time should be as equitable as is reasonable, so I strongly disagree with how that coach operates, but if I were on the other end of it I would just think to myself that he's doing a disservice to the growth of the rest of his team and move on from it.

The league is supposed to be 'equal playing time' the way that I do on my team is my bench players will get more time in games we are up in and the close games not as much but it ends up roughly 'equal' as much as I think you can realistically make it.

In the youth league I help run, there are playing time restrictions depending on how many are on each team. If there are 7 or more players on a team, everyone sits at least a full quarter and nobody sits more than two (barring injury). Your league should do something like this, but I still vote jerk move.

As @Yo Mama mentions, if your league was truly about "equitable" or relatively "equal" play time, this could easily be enforced via rules. The rec league that I still help out with has these kinds rules in place. They play the games as 5 8-minute periods. In the first 4 periods, there's no subs, those are done at the end of each quarter. Every player must sit at least one full period in those first 4 periods, and every kid must play 1 full period in each half. The 5th period is open substitution. If a player has not sat in the first 4 periods, thy are not eligible to play in the 5th period.

There are also player advantage rules in place for teams that have short rosters - for example, if you only have 6 players at a game and the other team has 8, the coach with 8 picks which player for the team with 6 sits in the 3rd period. That way, the best player can not play the entire game. I'd need to look at the most current version of the rules, but they also used to award points to the team with more players in the first and third quarters as part of the player advantage rule, as in theory the best players for the team with less players would be playing more. Something like 4 points at the start of the game, and another 4 at the start of the 3rd quarter if additional players were not there by half time. You'd be amazed by what some coaches will do to win even in 3rd grade rec, such as telling their worst players that a game was cancelled so they wouldn't be at the game, which is the actual case that necessitated the addition of this type of rule.

There are also rules in place for blowouts (mercy rule). In this particular league, a team that is up by 20 or more can not play defense outside of the 3 point line*. As the league is rec, teams are not allowed to play defense in the backcourt for the first 4 periods, with 5th period being full court allowed, other than the mercy rule.

This league also has a slightly higher, still recish division, with rules that are more akin to high school rules - open subs, press anytime but still mercy rule in place.

* While I like the intent of the mercy rule, especially since often times in blow out it's because the losing team simply does not have players capable of making decent passes or hitting any shots, the unintended consequence of the rule is that it makes it even harder for the team to score, as now all 5 defenders are packed into the 3 point circle, making it even harder for the losing team to get an open easy shot. I don't have a better idea really though that makes sense, and this league has used this type of rule for 20 plus years.

So your blow out is 20...... which I agree with.

I think in the OP case - I agree with him in general but the score was on the borderline of mercy rules so I think he is taking it a "bit overboard" was my point.

I don't disagree with the decision or feeling but it is also not as egregious and its being made out to be

For this particular league that I still volunteer with that is their mercy rule - 20 point advantage. For high school, the mercy rule is at 40 points when the game goes to running clock.

* While I like the intent of the mercy rule, especially since often times in blow out it's because the losing team simply does not have players capable of making decent passes or hitting any shots, the unintended consequence of the rule is that it makes it even harder for the team to score, as now all 5 defenders are packed into the 3 point circle, making it even harder for the losing team to get an open easy shot. I don't have a better idea really though that makes sense, and this league has used this type of rule for 20 plus years.

Has there ever been any discussion for having the team that is way up play with 4 players instead of 5? Maybe based on points or something?

Once you go up by 20 you play with 4 players.

You go up by 30 you play with 3?

I don't know if that makes the losing team feel bad but maybe the 4 player thing might work.

Not that I know of - the coaches handbook that they give out and go over every year with coaches encourages sportsmanship and suggest sitting your top players in blow outs. There used to be a rule - again I'd have to check the rule book to see if it is still there - that also allowed the coach on the losing end of a mercy game to choose 2 players from the other team that had to sit out until the game got to 10 or fewer points.

Years ago when I coached in the league it led to some interesting late game strategy. One game I recall my team was up by 20 heading into the final quarter, so opposing coach had me sit my two best players - no biggie - I already was - but, because he used the rule to force it, I could not put them in until the lead got under 10 - Other team went on a run as they had their top team in vs. my backups, and within a few minutes had cut the lead to 10. Other team gets fouled and is shooting 2. I could not root harder for the opponent to make their first free throw so I could make a sub to get my guys back in to stop the bleeding and get the game under control

 

[Anarchy99]

I coached rec basketball at the elementary and middle school levels. Our town had minimum playing and sitting time rules (all players had to play and sit at least 3 minutes per half). I game planned and mapped out a substitution schedule for each game (that got adjusted based on player attendance, foul trouble, and score once the game started). To make sure my team complied with the rules, I had a sign in / out sheet at the scorer's table that each of the kids had to note the time when they went in and came out of games. I often called time outs for no other reason but to make player substitutions to make sure all the kids got their allotted playing time. We always had good teams, and I got tired of being accused of cheating (when I wasn't). I also had someone tape the games from the stands to also log the minutes to make sure everything was legit. Most games, it wasn't an issue (I usually gave the B team extra minutes at the end of the game).

Of course, no other teams logged minutes played, and most coaches abused the playing time rules (by never taking their best kids out or putting their less talented kids in). I actually presented other coaches with the actual minutes their kids played in games just to show them how off they were in their time allocation. I told them I wasn't going to rat them out to the league director, and I also said I didn't care if they followed the rules or not . . . if they wanted to skirt the rules, that was on them.

The absolute worst was having kids on the roster that weren't into basketball and didn't want to play that showed up for the first few practices and then went AWOL for the regular season games. But once they found out we had a good team and the playoffs were starting, THEN they'd show up. By rule, I still had to play them . . . even though they didn't know any of the plays, hadn't gotten off the couch for months, and didn't have any idea what to do when they were on the court.

 

[Gally]

But once they found out we had a good team and the playoffs were starting, THEN they'd show up. By rule, I still had to play them . . . even though they didn't know any of the plays, hadn't gotten off the couch for months, and didn't have any idea what to do when they were on the court.

We had a clause that allowed you to adjust the min play time in situations like this for kids that no showed practice. You had to submit the request into the league and have the parents sign the submission or be on the email thread but you could minimize this impact. I thought it was a good clause because it wasn't fair to the kids that were at practice busting their butt for the team.

 

[Gally]

Years ago when I coached in the league it led to some interesting late game strategy. One game I recall my team was up by 20 heading into the final quarter, so opposing coach had me sit my two best players - no biggie - I already was - but, because he used the rule to force it, I could not put them in until the lead got under 10 - Other team went on a run as they had their top team in vs. my backups, and within a few minutes had cut the lead to 10. Other team gets fouled and is shooting 2. I could not root harder for the opponent to make their first free throw so I could make a sub to get my guys back in to stop the bleeding and get the game under control

This is another reason why I don't like these types of rules. I could see coaches abusing this situation to try and gain an advantage. It's also not totally fair because these young age groups can have huge swings in score due to lucky shots or whatever. If coaches just do their job this shouldn't be an issue....but alas coaches aren't created equal and the bad ones are the reasons these types of thing exist in the first place. Dang bad coaches ruin everything....haha

 

[SWC]

i have coached a lot of basketball like for decades and decades and i am firm in my belief that the programs that play every kid 1 through 10 at the 4th 5th and 6th grade levels equally and then close to equally at 7th will do significantly better in high school than the teams that dont i witnessed this as a fan i saw a team that had 1 really good kid but a bench of 12 play that kid and four or five others against a powerhouse program that played all 10 kids equal time well the team with the one kid that played the short bench ended up winning by 2 but 7 kids sat and didnt play after the game the coaches were going crazy and died their hair or something stupid like that over the next week like a win where you kill the morale of over half your team and make every play about 1 kid for a 2 point win is accomplishing something well i know the programs and most of the kids from the 1 good kid team quit basketball outright and the high school ended up having trouble getting kids out and for a division 2 school only had a jv and varsity squad with short benches for each team and no freshman team and the entire youth program is in shambles now because of crap like that and the team that played all 10 equally is a powerhouse and has so many kids they have full benches at all three levels and is always in the hunt for a state title so i guess what i am saying is as a coach and a parent you simply have to put aside ego about winning put aside needing to win on the back of one kid and focus on bringing every player up to the level of your best player and then make them all better together all ships have to rise together and then those ships will make eachother better that is how you build something take that to the bank brochachos

 

[Manster]

The entire problem with this scenario is the adults are making it about winning vs player development and having fun. At tha age you just want the kids to want enjoy it enough to play the next season.

 

[SWC]

i am a firm believer that at the youth levels you should play man to man defense and nothing else nobody learns how to defend playing zone and if you are really concerned about the future no college scout has ever said look how good that kid plays zone we need him take that to the bank bromigos

 

[SWC]

i should add this too i also believe now despite not believing it for a while that you have to go 5 out in this day and age and teach every type of player every type of skill set you cant just have guards and posts anymore everyone has to learn to dribble shoot post up and defend in the post and at the perimeter the game has changed so much that if you are one dimensional you are going to get smoked at competitive levels except in the most unicorn rarest of rare cases and furthermore your kids that are the tallest in 4th grade might be your shortest by the time you start high school so only a fool would pigeonhole anyone to one spot at a young age teach them everything teach them the game take that to the bank brohans

 

[SWC]

and finally everyone should be taught the equivalent of 40 minutes of hell and thats my ball mentality young the kids that go for the ball move to the ball and run relentlessly always have a home at higher levels of play i tell all my players at that age that i would rather have them make a mistake fast than do nothing slow and that same mentality holds when doing dribbling drills you need to start with two ball work early because young kids especially will have their weak hand learn from their dominant hand when performing two ball dribbling work and their off hand will grow in skill fast and exponentially as a result and just like my make mistakes fast i tell the kids that when they are doing dribbling drills if they are not making mistakes and having balls get loose they are not pushing themselves hard enough tell kids who are obviously trying and making mistakes that you are proud of their effort and pump them up for pushing the envelope that is how they get better take that to the bank brohans

 

[acarey50]

Years ago when I coached in the league it led to some interesting late game strategy. One game I recall my team was up by 20 heading into the final quarter, so opposing coach had me sit my two best players - no biggie - I already was - but, because he used the rule to force it, I could not put them in until the lead got under 10 - Other team went on a run as they had their top team in vs. my backups, and within a few minutes had cut the lead to 10. Other team gets fouled and is shooting 2. I could not root harder for the opponent to make their first free throw so I could make a sub to get my guys back in to stop the bleeding and get the game under control

This is another reason why I don't like these types of rules. I could see coaches abusing this situation to try and gain an advantage. It's also not totally fair because these young age groups can have huge swings in score due to lucky shots or whatever. If coaches just do their job this shouldn't be an issue....but alas coaches aren't created equal and the bad ones are the reasons these types of thing exist in the first place. Dang bad coaches ruin everything....haha

Absolutely agree. I also have volunteered with a local youth flag football league. Similar play time rules in that all rosters are 8 players, game is 6 on 6. Every player plays 3 quarters and sits 1 quarter.

Now, in one of their first seasons, the league received a call from a parent a few weeks into the season asking why games had been cancelled and if they would be made up. Only thing is, no games had been cancelled. This kid's coach had told them that the games were cancelled so that the kid, who was new and nor very athletic, would not be at the game, meaning the coach could play his best players for the whole game. As I was told, this particular coach was banned from coaching in the league any longer and new player advantage rules were added to address any situation where a team had less than the 8 players available for a game.

Sad that it had to be put into the rules, but as with many things youth sports related, the few bad apple adults ruin it for everyone.

 

[nirad3]

Years ago when I coached in the league it led to some interesting late game strategy. One game I recall my team was up by 20 heading into the final quarter, so opposing coach had me sit my two best players - no biggie - I already was - but, because he used the rule to force it, I could not put them in until the lead got under 10 - Other team went on a run as they had their top team in vs. my backups, and within a few minutes had cut the lead to 10. Other team gets fouled and is shooting 2. I could not root harder for the opponent to make their first free throw so I could make a sub to get my guys back in to stop the bleeding and get the game under control

This is another reason why I don't like these types of rules. I could see coaches abusing this situation to try and gain an advantage. It's also not totally fair because these young age groups can have huge swings in score due to lucky shots or whatever. If coaches just do their job this shouldn't be an issue....but alas coaches aren't created equal and the bad ones are the reasons these types of thing exist in the first place. Dang bad coaches ruin everything....haha

Absolutely agree. I also have volunteered with a local youth flag football league. Similar play time rules in that all rosters are 8 players, game is 6 on 6. Every player plays 3 quarters and sits 1 quarter.

Now, in one of their first seasons, the league received a call from a parent a few weeks into the season asking why games had been cancelled and if they would be made up. Only thing is, no games had been cancelled. This kid's coach had told them that the games were cancelled so that the kid, who was new and nor very athletic, would not be at the game, meaning the coach could play his best players for the whole game. As I was told, this particular coach was banned from coaching in the league any longer and new player advantage rules were added to address any situation where a team had less than the 8 players available for a game.

Sad that it had to be put into the rules, but as with many things youth sports related, the few bad apple adults ruin it for everyone.

Wow what an a-hole. I couldn't even fathom doing that.

 

[jobarules]

Years ago when I coached in the league it led to some interesting late game strategy. One game I recall my team was up by 20 heading into the final quarter, so opposing coach had me sit my two best players - no biggie - I already was - but, because he used the rule to force it, I could not put them in until the lead got under 10 - Other team went on a run as they had their top team in vs. my backups, and within a few minutes had cut the lead to 10. Other team gets fouled and is shooting 2. I could not root harder for the opponent to make their first free throw so I could make a sub to get my guys back in to stop the bleeding and get the game under control

This is another reason why I don't like these types of rules. I could see coaches abusing this situation to try and gain an advantage. It's also not totally fair because these young age groups can have huge swings in score due to lucky shots or whatever. If coaches just do their job this shouldn't be an issue....but alas coaches aren't created equal and the bad ones are the reasons these types of thing exist in the first place. Dang bad coaches ruin everything....haha

Absolutely agree. I also have volunteered with a local youth flag football league. Similar play time rules in that all rosters are 8 players, game is 6 on 6. Every player plays 3 quarters and sits 1 quarter.

Now, in one of their first seasons, the league received a call from a parent a few weeks into the season asking why games had been cancelled and if they would be made up. Only thing is, no games had been cancelled. This kid's coach had told them that the games were cancelled so that the kid, who was new and nor very athletic, would not be at the game, meaning the coach could play his best players for the whole game. As I was told, this particular coach was banned from coaching in the league any longer and new player advantage rules were added to address any situation where a team had less than the 8 players available for a game.

Sad that it had to be put into the rules, but as with many things youth sports related, the few bad apple adults ruin it for everyone.

Wow what an a-hole. I couldn't even fathom doing that.

Oh Ive definitely fathomed it lol (but no Ive never actually done it).

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

Why don't any white Americans play basketball anymore?

LOL. I'll show myself out.

Their femur bones are too short.

 

[Drunken knight]

i am a firm believer that at the youth levels you should play man to man defense and nothing else nobody learns how to defend playing zone and if you are really concerned about the future no college scout has ever said look how good that kid plays zone we need him take that to the bank bromigos

i disagree with this brohan.

i have coached elite men's hs lacrosse, and rec league women's with the intention of elevating the program. I like wins, but development was more important to me.

I will teach what the team can absorb. increased skills and lacrosse IQ benefits everyone, even if we do not use everything in the playbook.. i love having more tools at our disposal. more adaptability when necessary.

 

[Chadstroma]

I think he was wrong but that you handled it the right way.

IMO, he was primarily wrong because that age should still be about development and he is hindering the development of his other players by playing his star too much.

Frankly, sports should be primarily development focused until high school varsity. Very very very few kids are going to even get to the point where they get college scholarships to play a certain sport, so helping all the kids improve their game and learn good life lessons in the process is more important and more overall beneficial to all the kids than focusing on winning.

I should also likely point out that the coach is the stars father.

There was one kid other than the star any good at all. The rest of the their starters were non-factors. The star scored 33. Their second best added 4 and one kid got a wide open look under the 5 feet from the basket after I put in my bench and made the basket.

One of the things I love about my boys is that when we are blowing out a team and I get my bench in... the starters that are still in the game (I have 8 total on the roster) will work hard to get the bench players to score. They don't care about their stats or them scoring more or running up a score- they just try to be good teammates. This is without my direction and it just what they do. Last year, we did have one game that I told them it was the first game that our goal wasn't to win it but our goal was to get two of our teammates that hadn't score all season baskets. I was wondering how they would react and they all instantly were on board. I guess... actually, we did get creamed one time before yesterdays game but it was kind of intentional. We got into mercy rule because we couldn't score because there are real reasons why those two boys hadn't scored all season... like catching the ball is a struggle for them. Finally, we got both of the boys baskets which was early into the 4th. 28-4... I am so competitive that I knew it would be hard to come back all the way but I wanted the other team to know this game was our choice. My starters went in and roared back. Just didn't have enough time. Final score 28-16. My boys were nothing but smiles and happy for the two boys who got their first and only baskets for the season. Love that.

 

[Gally]

I should also likely point out that the coach is the stars father.

That didn't need to be said. It was obvious from the get go

 

[Drunken knight]

@Chadstroma

yes... when we had big leads we would implement at least 2-3 players to touch the ball before a shot, only shoot with off hand, only assisted goals, etc.

 

[Anarchy99]

Years ago when I coached in the league it led to some interesting late game strategy. One game I recall my team was up by 20 heading into the final quarter, so opposing coach had me sit my two best players - no biggie - I already was - but, because he used the rule to force it, I could not put them in until the lead got under 10 - Other team went on a run as they had their top team in vs. my backups, and within a few minutes had cut the lead to 10. Other team gets fouled and is shooting 2. I could not root harder for the opponent to make their first free throw so I could make a sub to get my guys back in to stop the bleeding and get the game under control

This is another reason why I don't like these types of rules. I could see coaches abusing this situation to try and gain an advantage. It's also not totally fair because these young age groups can have huge swings in score due to lucky shots or whatever. If coaches just do their job this shouldn't be an issue....but alas coaches aren't created equal and the bad ones are the reasons these types of thing exist in the first place. Dang bad coaches ruin everything....haha

Absolutely agree. I also have volunteered with a local youth flag football league. Similar play time rules in that all rosters are 8 players, game is 6 on 6. Every player plays 3 quarters and sits 1 quarter.

Now, in one of their first seasons, the league received a call from a parent a few weeks into the season asking why games had been cancelled and if they would be made up. Only thing is, no games had been cancelled. This kid's coach had told them that the games were cancelled so that the kid, who was new and nor very athletic, would not be at the game, meaning the coach could play his best players for the whole game. As I was told, this particular coach was banned from coaching in the league any longer and new player advantage rules were added to address any situation where a team had less than the 8 players available for a game.

Sad that it had to be put into the rules, but as with many things youth sports related, the few bad apple adults ruin it for everyone.

Wow what an a-hole. I couldn't even fathom doing that.

I've coached in leagues where coaches of other teams told the good players that their playoff game was on Saturday and then told the less talented kids the game was on Sunday (or told them the wrong location for the game) . . . and then tried to say it was "by accident."

The two worst abuses of power to try to win (that made me embarrassed to be a coach) were:

1) Our middle school aged football team advanced to the finals of the New England region . . . the winners got to go to the 8-team playoff at Disney World. AFTER the official weigh in and validation of the players by the refs, the opposing team switched 5 of their worst players to be replaced by their best players from their high school team (they dressed in the visiting clubhouse). Needless to say, we got smoked. The worst part was, they ended up getting caught when they were already in Florida. They were kicked out of the tournament, the team they were supposed to play got a forfeit, and our team got a nice apology letter (but could not participate in the tournament).

2) The same group of kids the following season started the playoffs low on available players due to sickness and injuries, and the opposing coaching staff (our biggest rivals) knew that we had limited kids available. Kids could only weigh a certain amount, so their coaches recalibrated the scales to make a few of our bigger kids go over the weight limit (even though they weren't) . . . that caused us to not have enough players eligible to play the game. All the coaches and refs met before the game, and the opposing coaches said they would play us fair and square regardless of the weight issues and insufficient number of players. We got up two TDs when the head of the youth football program for our state showed up (conveniently a resident of the rival town) and declared the game a forfeit and forced us to take a loss (with us ahead by 14 points).

We screamed bloody murder, appealed to the national governing body on youth football, and the game got scheduled to be completed from the point it was stopped with the existing score intact. They had to finish mid-week at a neutral site in a different town. That game turned out to the most attended youth sporting event I have been to. There were hundreds of people, as the two towns pretty much hate each other when it comes to sports. We ended up winning the game, the team got as far as the season before . . . this time WINNING the game they got cheated on the prior season . . . and then the football program DECLINED the invitation to play in Florida, saying that they didn't have the funds available to pay for it. When the parents said they would gladly pay for all the kids and coaches to go (even paying the costs of any families that couldn't afford it), they were told it was too late, as they had already declined. Boo, hiss, catcalls!

 

[Spin]

Years ago when I coached in the league it led to some interesting late game strategy. One game I recall my team was up by 20 heading into the final quarter, so opposing coach had me sit my two best players - no biggie - I already was - but, because he used the rule to force it, I could not put them in until the lead got under 10 - Other team went on a run as they had their top team in vs. my backups, and within a few minutes had cut the lead to 10. Other team gets fouled and is shooting 2. I could not root harder for the opponent to make their first free throw so I could make a sub to get my guys back in to stop the bleeding and get the game under control

This reminds me of this awful rule they had in my boys' house league for mites hockey, where if any player scored 3 goals, they were "frozen" from scoring until the game was tied or they were losing. There was about 1 kid per team that was much much better than anyone else, and it was always just a race to get each team's best player "frozen" and then shift them back to D and just do nothing but clear the pucks out, unless the other team tied it up, then they'd shift back to trying to score again. It was awful and didn't help promote development or passing of any kind, because there were a few coaches who would never sub out their star players and justify it by saying, "he's not trying to score, just playing defense, I'm allowing other players to score" when half those kids could barely skate. Goes back to my previous comment about how some youth hockey coaches are dicks.

 

[Dickies]

The entire problem with this scenario is the adults are making it about winning vs player development and having fun. At tha age you just want the kids to want enjoy it enough to play the next season.

100% this. I always do a parent meeting before the season where I can meet with each of them individually to find out more about the kid, what their past experiences were, and what they are hoping to get out of the current season. I then follow up at the end of the season with meetings with the parents individually and then with the kids so that I can get feedback on things that I did, things I can improve on, and get a feel for what each kid enjoyed or didn't enjoy over the course of the season.

My #1 goal every season is to get 100% of the kids on my team to have had a good enough experience to come back and play again the following season. I haven't actually met that goal yet as I have always had 1-2 kids whose parents forced them to play "one last season" and those kids are typically checked out, but I have had a couple that were considering quitting after coming off a season with a bad coach who have told me after the season that I revitalized the fun in the game for them. That's what keeps me coming back to coach every year.

 

[Dickies]

Years ago when I coached in the league it led to some interesting late game strategy. One game I recall my team was up by 20 heading into the final quarter, so opposing coach had me sit my two best players - no biggie - I already was - but, because he used the rule to force it, I could not put them in until the lead got under 10 - Other team went on a run as they had their top team in vs. my backups, and within a few minutes had cut the lead to 10. Other team gets fouled and is shooting 2. I could not root harder for the opponent to make their first free throw so I could make a sub to get my guys back in to stop the bleeding and get the game under control

This is another reason why I don't like these types of rules. I could see coaches abusing this situation to try and gain an advantage. It's also not totally fair because these young age groups can have huge swings in score due to lucky shots or whatever. If coaches just do their job this shouldn't be an issue....but alas coaches aren't created equal and the bad ones are the reasons these types of thing exist in the first place. Dang bad coaches ruin everything....haha

Absolutely agree. I also have volunteered with a local youth flag football league. Similar play time rules in that all rosters are 8 players, game is 6 on 6. Every player plays 3 quarters and sits 1 quarter.

Now, in one of their first seasons, the league received a call from a parent a few weeks into the season asking why games had been cancelled and if they would be made up. Only thing is, no games had been cancelled. This kid's coach had told them that the games were cancelled so that the kid, who was new and nor very athletic, would not be at the game, meaning the coach could play his best players for the whole game. As I was told, this particular coach was banned from coaching in the league any longer and new player advantage rules were added to address any situation where a team had less than the 8 players available for a game.

Sad that it had to be put into the rules, but as with many things youth sports related, the few bad apple adults ruin it for everyone.

**** this guy.

 

[SWC]

i am a firm believer that at the youth levels you should play man to man defense and nothing else nobody learns how to defend playing zone and if you are really concerned about the future no college scout has ever said look how good that kid plays zone we need him take that to the bank bromigos

i disagree with this brohan.

i have coach elite men's hs lacrosse, and rec league women's with the intention of elevating the program. I like wins, but development was more important to me.

I will teach what the team can absorb. increased skills and lacrosse IQ benefits everyone, even if we do not use everything in the playbook.. i love having more tools at our disposal. more adaptability when necessary.

i respect what you are saying but just my experience im talking about at 4 5 and 6 grades no need for zone there you need the teach the kids to play straight up man to man and then once they have that you can work in other schemes and in terms of high school i still dont know a single scout i have ever talked to in the summer who wanted to see a kid play zone they want to know what they can do man to man and to watch foot speed and technique just my experience take that to the bank brochacho

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

The entire problem with this scenario is the adults are making it about winning vs player development and having fun. At tha age you just want the kids to want enjoy it enough to play the next season.

The first year I was coaching my kid's basketball team in the second grade, we had a losing record and weren't very good at all. It was hard to keep coaching knowing every game was going to be a struggle and if the kids did one or two things right it was going to be a good day. Luckily for me the AD at the school had a good attitude and asked me to coach again before the season was over, mainly because he thought the kids were getting better and he hadn't got the usual calls from parents about playing time. Led to some good memories coaching both of my kids and their friends. But it was really hard learning how to put aside my competitiveness and judge success by different standards.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Years ago when I coached in the league it led to some interesting late game strategy. One game I recall my team was up by 20 heading into the final quarter, so opposing coach had me sit my two best players - no biggie - I already was - but, because he used the rule to force it, I could not put them in until the lead got under 10 - Other team went on a run as they had their top team in vs. my backups, and within a few minutes had cut the lead to 10. Other team gets fouled and is shooting 2. I could not root harder for the opponent to make their first free throw so I could make a sub to get my guys back in to stop the bleeding and get the game under control

This is another reason why I don't like these types of rules. I could see coaches abusing this situation to try and gain an advantage. It's also not totally fair because these young age groups can have huge swings in score due to lucky shots or whatever. If coaches just do their job this shouldn't be an issue....but alas coaches aren't created equal and the bad ones are the reasons these types of thing exist in the first place. Dang bad coaches ruin everything....haha

Absolutely agree. I also have volunteered with a local youth flag football league. Similar play time rules in that all rosters are 8 players, game is 6 on 6. Every player plays 3 quarters and sits 1 quarter.

Now, in one of their first seasons, the league received a call from a parent a few weeks into the season asking why games had been cancelled and if they would be made up. Only thing is, no games had been cancelled. This kid's coach had told them that the games were cancelled so that the kid, who was new and nor very athletic, would not be at the game, meaning the coach could play his best players for the whole game. As I was told, this particular coach was banned from coaching in the league any longer and new player advantage rules were added to address any situation where a team had less than the 8 players available for a game.

Sad that it had to be put into the rules, but as with many things youth sports related, the few bad apple adults ruin it for everyone.

Wow what an a-hole. I couldn't even fathom doing that.

I've coached in leagues where coaches of other teams told the good players that their playoff game was on Saturday and then told the less talented kids the game was on Sunday (or told them the wrong location for the game) . . . and then tried to say it was "by accident."

The two worst abuses of power to try to win (that made me embarrassed to be a coach) were:

1) Our middle school aged football team advanced to the finals of the New England region . . . the winners got to go to the 8-team playoff at Disney World. AFTER the official weigh in and validation of the players by the refs, the opposing team switched 5 of their worst players to be replaced by their best players from their high school team (they dressed in the visiting clubhouse). Needless to say, we got smoked. The worst part was, they ended up getting caught when they were already in Florida. They were kicked out of the tournament, the team they were supposed to play got a forfeit, and our team got a nice apology letter (but could not participate in the tournament).

2) The same group of kids the following season started the playoffs low on available players due to sickness and injuries, and the opposing coaching staff (our biggest rivals) knew that we had limited kids available. Kids could only weigh a certain amount, so their coaches recalibrated the scales to make a few of our bigger kids go over the weight limit (even though they weren't) . . . that caused us to not have enough players eligible to play the game. All the coaches and refs met before the game, and the opposing coaches said they would play us fair and square regardless of the weight issues and insufficient number of players. We got up two TDs when the head of the youth football program for our state showed up (conveniently a resident of the rival town) and declared the game a forfeit and forced us to take a loss (with us ahead by 14 points).

We screamed bloody murder, appealed to the national governing body on youth football, and the game got scheduled to be completed from the point it was stopped with the existing score intact. They had to finish mid-week at a neutral site in a different town. That game turned out to the most attended youth sporting event I have been to. There were hundreds of people, as the two towns pretty much hate each other when it comes to sports. We ended up winning the game, the team got as far as the season before . . . this time WINNING the game they got cheated on the prior season . . . and then the football program DECLINED the invitation to play in Florida, saying that they didn't have the funds available to pay for it. When the parents said they would gladly pay for all the kids and coaches to go (even paying the costs of any families that couldn't afford it), they were told it was too late, as they had already declined. Boo, hiss, catcalls!

Lmao. How did they not ban every single person involved after that first cheating incident?! And how did you guys find out that they rigged the scales?

 

[Drunken knight]

i am a firm believer that at the youth levels you should play man to man defense and nothing else nobody learns how to defend playing zone and if you are really concerned about the future no college scout has ever said look how good that kid plays zone we need him take that to the bank bromigos

i disagree with this brohan.

i have coach elite men's hs lacrosse, and rec league women's with the intention of elevating the program. I like wins, but development was more important to me.

I will teach what the team can absorb. increased skills and lacrosse IQ benefits everyone, even if we do not use everything in the playbook.. i love having more tools at our disposal. more adaptability when necessary.

i respect what you are saying but just my experience im talking about at 4 5 and 6 grades no need for zone there you need the teach the kids to play straight up man to man and then once they have that you can work in other schemes and in terms of high school i still dont know a single scout i have ever talked to in the summer who wanted to see a kid play zone they want to know what they can do man to man and to watch foot speed and technique just my experience take that to the bank brochacho

oh yeah. it's building blocks, but team defense is essential to the sport. I don't want to give them too much at once. it is what they can digest. also, if my teams only used isolation plays to beat MoM i would be disappointed in myself for limiting their progress. to me that is elementary. the scouts i have spoken with appreciate field awareness/lax iq. knowing what to do and how to react/anticipate becomes a filter to more elite players

 

[Anarchy99]

Lmao. How did they not ban every single person involved after that first cheating incident?! And how did you guys find out that they rigged the scales?

1) A couple of our coaches were discussing with coaches from another team about the game and how we got blown out like 52-14. Coming into the came, we had only allowed 2 TD the entire season. One of our guys commented that we hadn't seen kids that big / tall before, and the other coaches said they didn't have kids that big when they played them a couple weeks earlier. That's when they thought to check the HS roster, and they thought they were the same kids. They alerted it to the tournament committee, and they tried to do the same thing in Florida and got busted on the spot.

2) We constantly monitored the weight of our borderline kids and had weighed them before the game, and they were all 1-2 pounds under. But for the official weigh in, they all had gained 5 pounds. After the game was already declared a forfeit, we got the ref to check the scale. They brought in a scale from the nurse's office and found they varied by 5 pounds. But by then most people had already left. The governing body blew a gasket, and there was talk of declaring us the winner based on cheating. But they decided that wasn't fair either, so that's when they made us finish out the game.

 

[Judge Smails]

Once you put your bench in you weren’t concerned about the score. He should coach his team as he sees fit. Jerk move would have been if he’s doing full court presses up 30. Short of that he’s fine

 

[Chadstroma]

They are 5th graders. Im not saying dont try and win the game but when the game is out of hand absolutely get the bench players some playing time. Anything else is despicable. At that level I always coached development first and winning second. Get used it to it though. There are scumbag coaches at every age level.

Luckily, I don't think we will have to get use to it. This is the only team capable of doing this to us in the leagues we are in. We can be beat but if we get beat by some of the better teams, it won't be a blowout. Next year, we go to selection and our A team, which my son should make, will be deeper than any team without it being close and likely the best starting 5 too overall. Unless that team does tournaments outside of the normal circles I have seen, they won't get blown out even from the school we just played.

 

[Gally]

there was talk of declaring us the winner based on cheating. But they decided that wasn't fair either, so that's when they made us finish out the game.

How is that not fair? The people in charge of that team cheated. They should have forfeited and never been allowed to coach again. That would have been fair.

 

[jobarules]

They are 5th graders. Im not saying dont try and win the game but when the game is out of hand absolutely get the bench players some playing time. Anything else is despicable. At that level I always coached development first and winning second. Get used it to it though. There are scumbag coaches at every age level.

Luckily, I don't think we will have to get use to it. This is the only team capable of doing this to us in the leagues we are in. We can be beat but if we get beat by some of the better teams, it won't be a blowout. Next year, we go to selection and our A team, which my son should make, will be deeper than any team without it being close and likely the best starting 5 too overall. Unless that team does tournaments outside of the normal circles I have seen, they won't get blown out even from the school we just played.

If you say so

 

[Chadstroma]

* While I like the intent of the mercy rule, especially since often times in blow out it's because the losing team simply does not have players capable of making decent passes or hitting any shots, the unintended consequence of the rule is that it makes it even harder for the team to score, as now all 5 defenders are packed into the 3 point circle, making it even harder for the losing team to get an open easy shot. I don't have a better idea really though that makes sense, and this league has used this type of rule for 20 plus years.

Has there ever been any discussion for having the team that is way up play with 4 players instead of 5? Maybe based on points or something?

Once you go up by 20 you play with 4 players.

You go up by 30 you play with 3?

I don't know if that makes the losing team feel bad but maybe the 4 player thing might work.

In our leagues at this level, with a 15 point lead the teams mercy rule is that defense must stay within the paint. I waived it. For two big reasons 1- our most effective offense weapon was getting the ball to my big guy in the paint but also 2- It wouldn't do us any good in preparing against them to WIN next time we play them.

I guess in that sense... I should have welcomed that he kept the star in because it would help us prepare next time to play them.

 

[Anarchy99]

there was talk of declaring us the winner based on cheating. But they decided that wasn't fair either, so that's when they made us finish out the game.

How is that not fair? The people in charge of that team cheated. They should have forfeited and never been allowed to coach again. That would have been fair.

The governing body decided that whatever the adult coaches did, that should not impact the experience for the youth players. Put another way, they reasoned that the kids on the team didn't do anything wrong (and they didn't think they even knew what the coaches had done).

This was like 15 years ago, but I think the coaching staff made someone the fall guy. The BS story the coach gave was that they didn't have a way to make sure the scale was accurate, so they asked one of the parents to set the scale to coincide with the weight they normally are at home. Of course, the head coach kept saying HOW CAN YOU PUNISH US, I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG! They didn't really believe him, but they didn't want to make things more of a circus than they already were.

The national governing board took all of the weight and measurement responsibilities out of the hands of the refs, coaches, and league officials when the game was completed, as they brought in one of their own people to check each kid and determine if each one was eligible. (That was the last place this guy wanted to be, and there was so much BS that had gone on, even if a kid was over the weight limit, he would have let the kid play).

 

[Chadstroma]

1) This was a home game. All of our home games are on Youtube live and then kept there. Other teams, specially in playoffs, will use it to scout. 2) I wanted to be able to spring this on them in the playoffs and not get them ready for it now. 3) We still need more time to practice it. If we play them again, which if we do would most likely be the Championship game for one of our leagues, we will use it.

At this age level I would much rather get the game practice in for the development of my kids over worrying about being scouted for some future game that may or may not happen (getting to the championship game). The best practice is game speed against other teams. This is supposed to be for development with winning as a byproduct so use the games to help develop.

Just my philosophy on this age group. Too many coaches worry about winning and what other teams are doing. I prefer focusing on my players and their improvement. I treat games like a learning opportunity because you can't get game speed/opponent variance in practice. Sure I want to win but development is more important.

We will be using the Triangle and two a lot in the next few games. We have a game tonight... if we win (we beat this team by 10 about a week ago and it wasn't really that close), then Friday a game, then Sat a game. If we win on Friday then two games on Sunday. All but the early Sunday game are road games. I plan on using it a lot for these games.

It was originally thought of and chosen this particular junk D in place for this one team but I do plan on deploying it in the playoffs to just throw the teams off a bit.

My primary focus is development which is why we have done M2M since 3rd grade while even now most teams play some form of zone or junk D. I told the parents that we would be doing M2M but that zone is more effective at these ages so we might lose some because of it but that I believed it was the best route to develop the boys long term. It ended up being an advantage to us because other teams are not use to going up against a true M2M where they boys have learned to play help defense.

 

[nirad3]

1) This was a home game. All of our home games are on Youtube live and then kept there. Other teams, specially in playoffs, will use it to scout. 2) I wanted to be able to spring this on them in the playoffs and not get them ready for it now. 3) We still need more time to practice it. If we play them again, which if we do would most likely be the Championship game for one of our leagues, we will use it.

At this age level I would much rather get the game practice in for the development of my kids over worrying about being scouted for some future game that may or may not happen (getting to the championship game). The best practice is game speed against other teams. This is supposed to be for development with winning as a byproduct so use the games to help develop.

Just my philosophy on this age group. Too many coaches worry about winning and what other teams are doing. I prefer focusing on my players and their improvement. I treat games like a learning opportunity because you can't get game speed/opponent variance in practice. Sure I want to win but development is more important.

We will be using the Triangle and two a lot in the next few games. We have a game tonight... if we win (we beat this team by 10 about a week ago and it wasn't really that close), then Friday a game, then Sat a game. If we win on Friday then two games on Sunday. All but the early Sunday game are road games. I plan on using it a lot for these games.

It was originally thought of and chosen this particular junk D in place for this one team but I do plan on deploying it in the playoffs to just throw the teams off a bit.

My primary focus is development which is why we have done M2M since 3rd grade while even now most teams play some form of zone or junk D. I told the parents that we would be doing M2M but that zone is more effective at these ages so we might lose some because of it but that I believed it was the best route to develop the boys long term. It ended up being an advantage to us because other teams are not use to going up against a true M2M where they boys have learned to play help defense.

I think we touched on this in the other thread about youth hoops, but there was one kid in the rec league I coached in who was far and away the best talent. For an 11/12 year old he was giant, but didn't play in the paint. He could shoot from distance and had a great handle. He crushed us in our 2nd game where I still hadn't really realized what my kids (a bunch of scrappy Smurfs) could do, especially defensively.

Once we made it to the playoffs, we actually won a game and then had to face this talented kid's team again. I knew EXACTLY what I was going to do with him defensively. I had two of my most scrappy defenders double-team him all over the court, even if he didn't have the ball. They were on him like white on rice. Maybe I'm a jerk for thinking this but it was awesome to see this kid get incredibly frustrated that he couldn't even get open. I think he scored like 10 points all game (he had 25+ easy the first outing) and we ended up beating them to move on to the championship (which we lost, but still).

It was sweet justice at least for me and my kids. The city did a terrible job in divvying up the teams. My tallest kid would have been one of the shorter kids on any of the other 7 teams. So towards the end of the season, I finally figured out that the only way we were going to compete was to run my scrappy defender kids up in a full court press and eventually get layups. It worked pretty well.

 

[Mitchie]

haven't read through whole thread so others prob said this but really don't think this is anything to worry about. (And I think Jameis Winston would agree.)

 

[tommyGunZ]

No excuse getting blown out by 20 on the 5th grade level. That's on the coaches. Teach your kids to beat the press or how to trap on defense. Problem solved.

 

[Chadstroma]

The entire problem with this scenario is the adults are making it about winning vs player development and having fun. At tha age you just want the kids to want enjoy it enough to play the next season.

Except I give my teams a choice at the start of the season... do you guys want to have fun and hope you win or do you guys want to work hard, get better and have fun while you win? The main point of this is to get their buy in because they choose to work hard to win. If they commit to working hard to win then I have to commit to do my best to help them win. As I told the AD of the school, development is major goal but winning is important to me, because it is important to the boys. My teams respond to this. My teams work much harder than our sister teams of the same grade/school do. I am coach 'harder' than my sister teams.

I couple of instances that have reinforced that I am doing a good job not just about winning....

- One kid who was on the team last year but got moved to another one. I saw him and asked him how he liked the new team.... now before I tell you his answer, it is important to note that in my practices, if you are screwing around, talking when a coach is talking, dribbling or drop a ball when a coach is talking, not hustling between drills, sitting, being negative to a team mate, talking back to a coach, etc you run a lap or two or more depending on the infraction. This kid ran so many laps that he likely ran just as much as the cross country team ran. When I asked him, if there was anyone that I would think would be happy to be on a different team, it had to be him.... without hesitation and emphatically he tells me he hates it and wished he was still on my team.
- Another kid that also switched teams from last year to this year, sees me and says "Hey Coach, I miss running!".... I was confused and thought maybe he was being sarcastic but he really isn't a kid to be sarcastic so I said "What? You miss running?" And he says "Yes! I miss it!" now to note, this kid struggled in running all season long. He didn't do a lot of extra laps... in fact, I don't recall him ever doing one but we run alot in my practices with high tempo drills usually.
- My son told me the other day that one of his teammates told him that he wished he was on my team. I have never coached him. My son said that a bunch of his friends have told him that.
- On the way to pick up one of the boys before a practice, my daughter said she felt bad for the boys at practice, I told her that my boys love it and are happy. When we picked up the other boy, I asked him "Do you like being on my team?" he replied "YES!" and I explained that my daughter said she felt sorry for you guys and he said "Well, I mean, you asked us what we wanted and we told you that we wanted to work hard and win... you are just doing what we want." This same boy was with me in 3rd but got moved to another team in 4th before coming back now in 5th. This last summer, at football practice, he asked me if I could get him back on the team. I told him that I didn't do the rosters.

Do we win? Yes. Do I push them to win? Yes. Do I coach games to win? Yes. But that doesn't mean my boys aren't happy, having fun and being developed. It isn't a one or the other thing. But even beyond developing them, my passion is to get these kids to gain life skills and lessons through basketball. To be able to connect things that will help them thrive in whatever they do because in the end, a couple likely won't play Jr High. A few may play HS. Maybe one will play college if that..... no one is going to the NBA. But they all will have lives and if I can add to them being prepared to have successful fulfilled lives that is my top goal.

So, I am going to push back against your assertion that the 'problem' is the 'adults' making it about winning. I don't know about the other coach but for me that is way off point.

 

[Chadstroma]

i am a firm believer that at the youth levels you should play man to man defense and nothing else nobody learns how to defend playing zone and if you are really concerned about the future no college scout has ever said look how good that kid plays zone we need him take that to the bank bromigos

We gave played M2M from 3rd grade to now exclusively with the only reason being that I do believe that it is the best way to develop for the long term. Both last season and early this season, we lost some games that we likely shouldn't have but it the boys will still getting their crap together on playing help defense in M2M. Before 4th grade, I told the parents, we are playing M2M even if it costs us games because it will be the best for them long term. So much easier to go from M2M to a zone than zone to a M2M and the higher you go the more M2M you typically play. The funny thing is that it ended up being an advantage as all the other teams play zone or junk D's and offenses aren't use to playng against M2M.

 

[Chadstroma]

i should add this too i also believe now despite not believing it for a while that you have to go 5 out in this day and age and teach every type of player every type of skill set you cant just have guards and posts anymore everyone has to learn to dribble shoot post up and defend in the post and at the perimeter the game has changed so much that if you are one dimensional you are going to get smoked at competitive levels except in the most unicorn rarest of rare cases and furthermore your kids that are the tallest in 4th grade might be your shortest by the time you start high school so only a fool would pigeonhole anyone to one spot at a young age teach them everything teach them the game take that to the bank brohans

We did 5 out last season. This season we did 4 out 1 in because I wanted to get them exposed to a motion kind of offense. I settled on DDM. The spacing, off ball movement, cutting, passing etc has been good in helping further their development.

 

[Chadstroma]

i am a firm believer that at the youth levels you should play man to man defense and nothing else nobody learns how to defend playing zone and if you are really concerned about the future no college scout has ever said look how good that kid plays zone we need him take that to the bank bromigos

i disagree with this brohan.

i have coached elite men's hs lacrosse, and rec league women's with the intention of elevating the program. I like wins, but development was more important to me.

I will teach what the team can absorb. increased skills and lacrosse IQ benefits everyone, even if we do not use everything in the playbook.. i love having more tools at our disposal. more adaptability when necessary.

I can't speak for LAX but for basketball, I absolutely agree with it. M2M is essential in my mind to assisting long term basketball development.

 

[Drunken knight]

I think mtm is a must… but you need to build on it.

Ie: do you only want to run a pick and roll?

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Jerk move IMO. At the developmental level (let’s just say elementary school age) far too many coaches are focused on winning over development

 

[Chadstroma]

The entire problem with this scenario is the adults are making it about winning vs player development and having fun. At tha age you just want the kids to want enjoy it enough to play the next season.

100% this. I always do a parent meeting before the season where I can meet with each of them individually to find out more about the kid, what their past experiences were, and what they are hoping to get out of the current season. I then follow up at the end of the season with meetings with the parents individually and then with the kids so that I can get feedback on things that I did, things I can improve on, and get a feel for what each kid enjoyed or didn't enjoy over the course of the season.

My #1 goal every season is to get 100% of the kids on my team to have had a good enough experience to come back and play again the following season. I haven't actually met that goal yet as I have always had 1-2 kids whose parents forced them to play "one last season" and those kids are typically checked out, but I have had a couple that were considering quitting after coming off a season with a bad coach who have told me after the season that I revitalized the fun in the game for them. That's what keeps me coming back to coach every year.

Last year I did a team parent meeting. This year, I skipped it as I have 3 AC's which between them and my kid if half the team. And three of the other four have been with me since 3rd grade so I know. I knew all the boys except one. What I do at the end of the year is send a review of the season for each player to the parents. I go over how they did, how they developed and challenges they have had. I pick one thing that I think would be the most value for them to focus on in the offseason and ideas on how they can work on it. I also go through the basketball camps/clinics that I am aware of and make recommendations on the ones that I think are the best.

Basketball has had 100% resign up for our grade from 3rd, to 4th to now 5th. We have three teams 26 players total... I think the entire class of boys is 27 because I can only think of one boy that doesn't play. (I didn't even know he existed until this fall when he won something in Golf because that is the only sport he does.) Meanwhile, the other school sports that start in 3rd, football and soccer have had drop offs.

My new kid this year, I was told by the coach that had him previously flat out told him "I don't like basketball and don't want to play." A couple of weeks after we started, I asked him if he liked playing basketball and he said yes. I also later asked the whole team who wanted to be on the A team next year (first year of selection) all the boys raised their hands. He is a very even keel kid that shows like zero emotion, good or bad, so it is hard to track with him but he has said that he has been practicing on his own or with his Dad on days off.

 

[Chadstroma]

They are 5th graders. Im not saying dont try and win the game but when the game is out of hand absolutely get the bench players some playing time. Anything else is despicable. At that level I always coached development first and winning second. Get used it to it though. There are scumbag coaches at every age level.

Luckily, I don't think we will have to get use to it. This is the only team capable of doing this to us in the leagues we are in. We can be beat but if we get beat by some of the better teams, it won't be a blowout. Next year, we go to selection and our A team, which my son should make, will be deeper than any team without it being close and likely the best starting 5 too overall. Unless that team does tournaments outside of the normal circles I have seen, they won't get blown out even from the school we just played.

If you say so

I do... we play mostly the same teams. Other than the one game last season where out entire goal was to get two of our players a basket and the game last night, our biggest lost in the previous two years plus so far this year is 8 with almost all the loses within 4 points. I have a good grasp of the teams.

As is, the team we just got creamed by is along on the top tier. On that second tier, without trying to be arrogant but just trying to give a real estimation, we are on top of that second tier. Our combined record from last year and this year with tournaments, league play and playoffs is 36-9-3 And as I said, 6 of those losses were within 4 points, the other was 8 points last year and then the two creams... one we chose to happen essentially and the other was last night. We recently won a tournament championship and last year won the league championship. The teams we are playing in the tournament, for the most part, I can judge from either playing them before or how they play against teams I know.

Next year, the A team will only get stronger. So, yes, I do say so because an honest assessment. If it unlikely for us to get creamed by another team unless it is the same team we just played.

 

[Chadstroma]

No excuse getting blown out by 20 on the 5th grade level. That's on the coaches. Teach your kids to beat the press or how to trap on defense. Problem solved.

No press, no trap. Our offense ran decently well but after the 1st Q when my son got in foul trouble and we were up 11-9 we just could not stop their star player. Out of two years, only one real, true blow out that we were on the wrong side of while we have enjoyed many blow outs for our favor with a 36-9-3 record over last year and this year... ya.... I am ok with it.

But yes, it lands on me.

 

[Chadstroma]

Tonight we played the first round of our second tournament. Our first match was against a team we defeated in our last tournament by 10. It wasn't that close and we didn't have one of my starters.

We came out and took control of the game right away. Half way through the 1st, I start getting a rotation in of my bench. Towards the end of the 2nd Q, I had two of my three bench players in. Continued and about half way through the 3rd but in my whole bench. Sat my big guy for the rest of the game (our top scorer). Rotated my other starters for the two that were playing otherwise.

My boys tried to get one of our boys a basket.... kept feeding him the ball for him to shoot. No luck. But again, my boys did that on their own and I didn't have to direct them on that. I had to pull them back on pushing the ball up the court and not pressuring the ball carrier on D but otherwise starters recognize that we won the game and we weren't trying to humilate the other team and they tried to support our bench players to score and do well.

30-4 end score.

If I did what this other coach did last night.... we likely would have been 50-0 kind of score. But I got my bench tons of playing time and the other coach did the same as I did last night putting in his bench (they had ten players so it really was their bench) to get them playing time.

Blow outs are going to happen but I think that was the right way to handle it. I can't expect all coaches to think the same as me though.