Youth Sports - Conflicting Rants (1 Viewer)

[Long Ball Larry]

500?

oh, come on.

Maybe it's a west coast thing.

One person is the QB. He throws the ball to a group of receivers who battle to catch it. While the ball is in the air, he shouts out a number. Person that catches it gets the score. First one to 500 wins. Maybe not as cool as Super Mario, but it's something to pass the time. They let me QB a lot and I have to say, it's kinda fun.

Assuming that where he now lives is where he grew up, he and I are both probably from like a 30-mile radius.

 

[belljr]

Never heard of that ever and I played a lot of stuff

I even played football.

We did stuff like that but more just touch football in the street

 

[PIK95]

I haven't read the entire thread, but do kids ever just get together on their own and play sports of any kind without it being organized by adults? Do Johnny and Billy and Jose and Mustafa ever play 2 on 2 hoops in somebody's driveway or play some variety of baseball or wiffleball?

That's how kids learned to play and love sports back when dinosaurs roamed the land...

My son will play some version of basketball in our backyard with his buddies when they are around.

The hard part around here is that the cities are very strict on field use - it's a money grab (though I do understand their liability concerns to a point). I understand needing a permit to run an organized practice, even though it sucks when a ranger will come and kick you off an unused field for it.

But by city rule, I could not head to the park with the neighborhood kids and play a game of touch or flag football or soccer, as anything with more than 5 or 6 people or that looks too organized requires a permit.

Now, we still do it, it just sucks that I can be cited/kicked off and made to look like a bad guy in front of the kids because I'm going out and having some fun with them and in some cases marking off a field for them to play on with cones, etc.

If you're there, that's not what DCThunder is talking about.I don't think my two daughters have ever played anything resembling a pickup game in their lives. My older daughter used to play "knockout" at recess but that's the closest approximation I can think of.

My ten year old son has organized pickup beach soccer games, 4-5 summer days a week, for pretty much the last five years. The games range from 2-2 to 10 on 10 of all ages depending on who is there that day and the tide. He also runs a recess soccer game every day when school is in. He has a pool of 10-15 kids that usually play. He has brought most of those kids into our club which is cool also. He sets up huge beach dodgeball games also that are funny to see. He's like a camp counselor down there.

 

[Todem]

#2 is a far bigger and more concerning problem.

I am an assistant coach on my sons 11U Majors level travel baseball team. Fortunately we have a wonderful group of parents (and boys) who "get it" but you have to go through a few bad ones in the process who simply do not "get it".

Real quick on #1...that typically ends at 8 years old. They are well aware if they are worthy of a trophy or not if they have competitive spirit and a will to win. The players who are apathetic to it quit by 9 years old.

As far as #2. It is beyond insane. I have seen and heard some crazy things in my time with travel ball. Yes my son loves baseball. I mean he is a serious clay rat and loves playing in the Fall as well as the Spring. But I make sure he has at least 2 months off between seasons so I shut him down from 5 days a week to a once a week catch with the old man (practice and games take up that much time in travel baseball, that is team practice, practice with me to get hundreds of ground balls, fly balls and swings as well and games). He loves it. But he needs to understand that he must recover. Even at his age. He plays tennis and swims a ton during is 7-8 week hiatus's between seasons. So he get's about 14-15 weeks of almost no baseball activity.

When I was playing we played January thru July. Then nothing again till next year. It's a little different today. back when I played we did not even have travel baseball. Travel was if you made all-stars for the summer. I never thought I would have to play my son in travel when he first started playing at 4 years old. But it became quickly apparent he was going to excel at the game and the level of players at the local little league was not cutting it. He wanted a lot more. So myself and two other fathers started a travel team. It was a huge learning experience. And after it became apparent this team ran it's course I decided to try him out for a majors level team and he made the squad. They asked for me to help as a coach as well which was nice. But I don't even coach my son at all during team practice. In games I just keep his head up if he get's a little down on himself. I give him plenty of coaching when he and I workout together.

He is fortunate that I play the game and have the physical ability to work him out several times a week. However a lot of kids that live in our neighborhood don't have a dad who can play or teach them so they hire so called professional trainers/coaches (and some are legit and really good). It's a mad money business. Because anyone who has played baseball or any other sport for that matter understands to be great, it takes reps, reps and more reps. So parents are spending hundreds per month and thousands per year to keep their kid well practiced with the kids who actually have parents who can work their kids out on their own. But the level of competition within your own team can get ridiculous. One of the main reasons we left his team of 2 years (where he was the starting SS, #2 pitcher and also played CF) was parents were rooting against my kid. Like I had horrible vibes from parents who simply would only cheer for their son. It was insane. My wife was getting so upset having to listen to some parents complain their boy should be hitting first blah blah blah. On this team you earn your position. And everyone needs to be able to play wherever they are needed. When my son made his new team.....he started in RF.......earned his way to CF, earned some mound time, and now this up coming season he expects to challenge for some infield time. A great team has 9 SS's. A great team has a group of parents and kids who don't care where they play. It's more about playing together, and winning together. That is the difference between a real majors team and a lot of these so called travel teams with fancy uniforms.

Anyway there is way too much pushing and absolute freak control with parents in youth baseball. The lack of rest for young arms and the mismanagement of pitchers has gotten to an absurd level and this is the main reason your seeing so many pitchers getting "Tommy John" as early as high school!!!!!

So #2 is a huge problem. No contest.

 

[Ned]

500?

oh, come on.

Maybe it's a west coast thing.

One person is the QB. He throws the ball to a group of receivers who battle to catch it. While the ball is in the air, he shouts out a number. Person that catches it gets the score. First one to 500 wins. Maybe not as cool as Super Mario, but it's something to pass the time. They let me QB a lot and I have to say, it's kinda fun.

Not a west coast thing, but maybe a new generation thing?

My oldest son plays this all the time at recess. I hadn't ever heard of it until he taught me how to play.

Our boys play pick-up soccer with anyone willing to kick a soccer ball. We played pick-up soccer on the beach during our recent vacation almost every single day. It was cool having older kids come over and want to join in with them. The best player, by far, was a 12yr old girl. She could ball.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

500?

oh, come on.

Maybe it's a west coast thing.

One person is the QB. He throws the ball to a group of receivers who battle to catch it. While the ball is in the air, he shouts out a number. Person that catches it gets the score. First one to 500 wins. Maybe not as cool as Super Mario, but it's something to pass the time. They let me QB a lot and I have to say, it's kinda fun.

I play this with my son and his friends, but I'm punting a ball as high as I can. A catch is worth 100, one-bounce is worth 50. We'll play with a football, kickball, soccer ball and sometimes rotate 4-5 different balls in the same game.

 

[randall146]

500?

oh, come on.

Maybe it's a west coast thing.

One person is the QB. He throws the ball to a group of receivers who battle to catch it. While the ball is in the air, he shouts out a number. Person that catches it gets the score. First one to 500 wins. Maybe not as cool as Super Mario, but it's something to pass the time. They let me QB a lot and I have to say, it's kinda fun.

That's called "Jackpot" 'round these parts. The kids love it. The adults don't understand it.

 

[D_House]

3. Youth sports is too organized, which results in both 1 and 2. Ban the kids from the house. Let them play what they want, when they want

Agree. Let kids be kids.

 

[Ray Karpis]

I'm not passing judgment either way, but playing baseball 8-9 months out of the year essentially is playing "year round." I mean no one is really playing 12 months. If you're only not playing in the winter months, that's year round. I hear some of you saying you don't advocate playing all year, but it sounds like you're going all but December-February and maybe a month off after summer ball.

Again, not bad-mouthing that decision, but I think the semantics is interesting.

 

[Ray Karpis]

My son just turned 9 in March and I have been coaching him the past 4 years in recreational baseball in both the spring and fall. We were approached a few years ago for him to try out for a club baseball team but we declined. My reasoning was I didn't want my son to get burnt out on baseball and more importantly hurt his arm from playing to much. I also wanted him to be able to play other sports and not just focus on baseball. I pitched professionally for 7 years in the Seattle Mariners organization and made it on the 40 man roster my last few years in AAA. I didn't play year round baseball as a kid so I don't think it is necessary.

However, he and his friends have developed very well and are ready for the challenge for club tournaments. I spoke to a few assistant coaches and we decided to form our own club team so that we can control how long the season is. We are playing in 7 tournaments this fall starting on September and ending the first week of December. We will then shut it down for the winter to allow kids to play other winter sports. In the spring, we will probably go back to recreational little league baseball. This allows him to get club experience and also keeps him from playing year round.

That seems like a ton of baseball for the fall.

We had been playing in a fall recreational league for the past 4 or 5 years which ended in early November so this will be a month longer

Yeah, but fall tournaments are 3-6 games per weekend...fall rec is usually 1 (maybe 2) games a week. You're talking about potentially playing 35-40 games if your team is competitive. That's a ton of baseball for the fall.

 

[bigbottom]

#2 is a far bigger and more concerning problem.

I am an assistant coach on my sons 11U Majors level travel baseball team. Fortunately we have a wonderful group of parents (and boys) who "get it" but you have to go through a few bad ones in the process who simply do not "get it".

Real quick on #1...that typically ends at 8 years old. They are well aware if they are worthy of a trophy or not if they have competitive spirit and a will to win. The players who are apathetic to it quit by 9 years old.

As far as #2. It is beyond insane. I have seen and heard some crazy things in my time with travel ball. Yes my son loves baseball. I mean he is a serious clay rat and loves playing in the Fall as well as the Spring. But I make sure he has at least 2 months off between seasons so I shut him down from 5 days a week to a once a week catch with the old man (practice and games take up that much time in travel baseball, that is team practice, practice with me to get hundreds of ground balls, fly balls and swings as well and games). He loves it. But he needs to understand that he must recover. Even at his age. He plays tennis and swims a ton during is 7-8 week hiatus's between seasons. So he get's about 14-15 weeks of almost no baseball activity.

When I was playing we played January thru July. Then nothing again till next year. It's a little different today. back when I played we did not even have travel baseball. Travel was if you made all-stars for the summer. I never thought I would have to play my son in travel when he first started playing at 4 years old. But it became quickly apparent he was going to excel at the game and the level of players at the local little league was not cutting it. He wanted a lot more. So myself and two other fathers started a travel team. It was a huge learning experience. And after it became apparent this team ran it's course I decided to try him out for a majors level team and he made the squad. They asked for me to help as a coach as well which was nice. But I don't even coach my son at all during team practice. In games I just keep his head up if he get's a little down on himself. I give him plenty of coaching when he and I workout together.

He is fortunate that I play the game and have the physical ability to work him out several times a week. However a lot of kids that live in our neighborhood don't have a dad who can play or teach them so they hire so called professional trainers/coaches (and some are legit and really good). It's a mad money business. Because anyone who has played baseball or any other sport for that matter understands to be great, it takes reps, reps and more reps. So parents are spending hundreds per month and thousands per year to keep their kid well practiced with the kids who actually have parents who can work their kids out on their own. But the level of competition within your own team can get ridiculous. One of the main reasons we left his team of 2 years (where he was the starting SS, #2 pitcher and also played CF) was parents were rooting against my kid. Like I had horrible vibes from parents who simply would only cheer for their son. It was insane. My wife was getting so upset having to listen to some parents complain their boy should be hitting first blah blah blah. On this team you earn your position. And everyone needs to be able to play wherever they are needed. When my son made his new team.....he started in RF.......earned his way to CF, earned some mound time, and now this up coming season he expects to challenge for some infield time. A great team has 9 SS's. A great team has a group of parents and kids who don't care where they play. It's more about playing together, and winning together. That is the difference between a real majors team and a lot of these so called travel teams with fancy uniforms.

Anyway there is way too much pushing and absolute freak control with parents in youth baseball. The lack of rest for young arms and the mismanagement of pitchers has gotten to an absurd level and this is the main reason your seeing so many pitchers getting "Tommy John" as early as high school!!!!!

So #2 is a huge problem. No contest.

Please don't take this the wrong way. But you say that #2 is a huge problem, all while "working out" your ten year old several times a week in addition to practices and games (five days a week of baseball for 8 months out of the year). Also, your assertion that "anyone who has played baseball or any other sport for that matter understands to be great, it takes reps, reps and more reps" seems to buy into the very mindset that you appear to be criticizing. And I have to say, my buddy who is a baseball scout (and former mlb player) would disagree with you. He would say that to be great, it takes natural talent, and is like 90% genetic. Reps, reps and more reps may make a mediocre player good, but it won't make a player great. My buddy certainly never concentrated on baseball at 10 years of age. He played multiple sports all growing up, and didn't start really focusing on baseball until his junior year of high school. Ended up playing pro ball for 11 years, with three seasons in the bigs.

 

[Rove!]

I don't even see 1 as a problem...

 

[NCCommish]

I don't even see 1 as a problem...

It's not really. As many have pointed out it ends at a fairly early age.

 

[acarey50]

I don't even see 1 as a problem...

It's a problem to overly competitive parents that want to live vicariously through their children.

I got a chuckle earlier this year when a few friends of mine posted on Facebook about their team ending their machine pitch season undefeated. I decided to hold my tongue, because in that league, they don't even keep score for that age level (mostly 7 and 8 year olds).

 

[roadkill1292]

I don't even see 1 as a problem...

It's a problem to overly competitive parents that want to live vicariously through their children.

But, really, we right-thinking people just shun those parents, don't we?

 

[acarey50]

I don't even see 1 as a problem...

It's a problem to overly competitive parents that want to live vicariously through their children.

But, really, we right-thinking people just shun those parents, don't we?

I actually live vicariously through them living vicariously through their kids.

 

[Todem]

I don't even see 1 as a problem...

It's a problem to overly competitive parents that want to live vicariously through their children.

I got a chuckle earlier this year when a few friends of mine posted on Facebook about their team ending their machine pitch season undefeated. I decided to hold my tongue, because in that league, they don't even keep score for that age level (mostly 7 and 8 year olds).

Like I said....by the time they are 9 this sort of practice ends. As it should. But 5 years old through 8....who cares? (The kids certainly don't at that age)

It's about getting them to keep playing and getting some kids to a competitive level when they are older.

 

[Clifford]

Yet another reason not to have kids. :no kids:

Or to have kids but keep a life of your own.I'm sorry if you care that much about ####### little league you are a loser.

 

[roadkill1292]

Kids understand that mom and dad have their own interests, too. Or at least would understand, given half a chance to.

[/fantasyfootballschedulingrant]

 

[VA703]

just signed my 3 year old up for soccer

looking forward to some soccer mom drama & yoga pants

 

[Charlie Steiner]

just signed my 3 year old up for soccer

looking forward to some soccer mom drama & yoga pants

Don't know that many moms of 3 year olds get back into enough shape that you'd want to see them in yoga pants.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

I haven't read the entire thread, but do kids ever just get together on their own and play sports of any kind without it being organized by adults? Do Johnny and Billy and Jose and Mustafa ever play 2 on 2 hoops in somebody's driveway or play some variety of baseball or wiffleball?

That's how kids learned to play and love sports back when dinosaurs roamed the land...

My oldest son goes to the park and plays pick-up basketball with his buddies. They also play touch football sometimes.

 

[Instinctive]

500?

oh, come on.

Maybe it's a west coast thing.

One person is the QB. He throws the ball to a group of receivers who battle to catch it. While the ball is in the air, he shouts out a number. Person that catches it gets the score. First one to 500 wins. Maybe not as cool as Super Mario, but it's something to pass the time. They let me QB a lot and I have to say, it's kinda fun.

Assuming that where he now lives is where he grew up, he and I are both probably from like a 30-mile radius.

I thought this was called "jackpot."

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

500?

oh, come on.

Maybe it's a west coast thing.

One person is the QB. He throws the ball to a group of receivers who battle to catch it. While the ball is in the air, he shouts out a number. Person that catches it gets the score. First one to 500 wins. Maybe not as cool as Super Mario, but it's something to pass the time. They let me QB a lot and I have to say, it's kinda fun.

Assuming that where he now lives is where he grew up, he and I are both probably from like a 30-mile radius.

I thought this was called "jackpot."

We called it 500 as kids.

There is also "fly-up" or "flyer's up" where no score is kept and the kid just throws and whoever catches the ball gets a chance to throw.

 

[PIK95]

just signed my 3 year old up for soccer

looking forward to some soccer mom drama & yoga pants

Don't know that many moms of 3 year olds get back into enough shape that you'd want to see them in yoga pants.

Disagree strongly.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

just signed my 3 year old up for soccer

looking forward to some soccer mom drama & yoga pants

Don't know that many moms of 3 year olds get back into enough shape that you'd want to see them in yoga pants.

Disagree strongly.

I'm pretty sure I don't know that many moms of 3 year olds get back into enough shape that you'd want to see them in yoga pants.

 

[Sweet J]

I hear people ranting all the time about the following two things, roughly in equal proportion:

1) Youth sports is no longer competitive. Parents are afraid to let their kids fail. Every kid is a special flower these days that needs to be coddled. Whether it's every player getting trophies, the worst players getting equal playing time, mercy rules, or even not keeping score at all, kids are no longer experiencing the highs and lows of competition, of winning and losing. Instead, all these parents care about is making little Johnny feel like he's a winner, even when he strikes out 15 times in a row, or can't make a free throw to save his life. The wussification of America continues, and all these wussified parents are destroying the competitive spirit and drive to succeed.

2) Youth sports is too competitive. Parents are hypercompetitive and all they care about is that little Johnny and his team win at all costs. Whether it's screaming at coaches and umps during the game, making their kids play a single sport year round, paying thousands of dollars for trainers and individual instruction, parents are too damn competitive and sucking the fun out of youth sports. It's no longer about having a good time and going out for pizza after the game, win or lose. Now it's about winning the league, making it to select ball or a traveling team. It's about parents spending an hour after every game lecturing their kids on how they could have played better. It's about practicing drills endlessly in the back yard, rather than just having a catch with your dad. Parents are living vicariously through their kids, are too freaking competitive, and are burning out their kids on what used to be a fun game.

So which is the greater issue? Which is happening with more frequency? Which is more damaging to our kids?

Let me give the boring answer that, as long as the kid is off the couch, away from the TV, and involved in youth sports, neither perspective (either being "too competitive" or "not competitive enough) is really all that harmful to the kids.

If forced to choose, I'd say being 'too competitive" is worse. That being said, if a parent is a hyper-competitive jackhole about sports, he's probably messing up in other ways that are way more harmful.