Youth Sports - Conflicting Rants (1 Viewer)

[RedmondLonghorn]

Also, there may be a few things in life worse than T-ball, but I can't think of too many. That truly is the bottom of the barrell for youth sports.

The first year of kid-pitch is worse imo. I've no idea how parents can sit through that without plenty of beer and a good book.

It can be really awful. But at least it is something resembling baseball (that is faint praise in my book, however).

My older son's AAA team became tolerable to watch by the end of the season. They ended up winning both the league and city championship. My younger son's AAA team was pretty terrible to watch for most of the season.

 

[Jayrod]

IMO it depends of the kids playing. Both my daughter played college volleyball. That was never my intention when they started. My oldest daughter was in 7th grade playing in a CYO volleyball league when I started getting calls at my home from club teams and HS Catholic school coaches about her. Then my younger one by one year started getting the same and it snowballed into HS ball, then spring club ball and national travel volleyball all over the country. Every year I asked them "Are you having fun and do you want to keep this pace up?" They loved it and actually enjoyed working out and doing all the summer camps at colleges. I never wanted them to play just for me like many kids do.

That being said I saw first hand many girls who were great athletes but pushed so hard by their parents that they quit the game. I know 2 that had full scholarships at Big Ten schools that quit playing before their freshman year. Many others that just burned out from almost year round schedule.

The only advice I would give every parent who has a child involved is to closely monitor their kids. Highly competitive kids should play higher levels of the sport if they choose Kids that just like playing but do not have much interest in all the training should play rec league type of sports. The parents should be able to tell what kind of league their child belongs in.

I'd like this a million times if I could.

My son has turned down all-stars every year he's played as well as multiple invites to travel ball teams. I even had one travel team that was so hell-bent on getting Chris to play, the coach offered to 'take care' of the fees. Every time, my son told them the same thing: 'No thanks, July and August are when I go to mom-mom and pop-pop's to fish and swim (my parents live, literally, 500 yards from the water)'.

And you know what? If he still loves the sport, he will still have plenty of time to practice/train and get really good at it. Missing those "opportunities" will not hinder his development at all. Also, he will be making memories with family and developing a better sense of priorities. Good for you for realizing that and not pushing him into it.

I reffed a girls HS basketball camp this Summer and the best player was a Freshman. The word is that she has never been on a travel/elite team. She was dominating girls who were high quality seniors and all she has ever done is play for her school and in local leagues. She is a D-1 player right now and has 4 years to get better. Her secret? Her dad is a coach and she spends time in the gym practicing and doing drills. If your kid wants to be a great player, that is a much better approach than teaming up on some thrown together team to play in a tournament 100 miles away.

Playing on those teams doesn't do anything. Sure a kid needs to play some to improve, but not at the expense of good practice time and quality of life. There will be plenty of time to play games.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

He said in Germany the winning team gets a huge trophy; the runner up gets a smaller trophy, everyone else is crying.

This should surprise exactly nobody.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

My son turned down an offer to play u11 at the top soccer club in the area this year and instead stayed with his club from last year. The coaches from the bigger club put the full court press on all weekend until I made very clear his decision was final. They made no bones about their opinion that it should be my decision, not his. I was surprised when several of our friends also said, "you made a mistake" as though it was my job to force him to play for this club he didn't like. I was a little disappointed, but completely support his decision to stay with his friends and have fun playing at this age.

 

[Ned]

IMO it depends of the kids playing. Both my daughter played college volleyball. That was never my intention when they started. My oldest daughter was in 7th grade playing in a CYO volleyball league when I started getting calls at my home from club teams and HS Catholic school coaches about her. Then my younger one by one year started getting the same and it snowballed into HS ball, then spring club ball and national travel volleyball all over the country. Every year I asked them "Are you having fun and do you want to keep this pace up?" They loved it and actually enjoyed working out and doing all the summer camps at colleges. I never wanted them to play just for me like many kids do.

That being said I saw first hand many girls who were great athletes but pushed so hard by their parents that they quit the game. I know 2 that had full scholarships at Big Ten schools that quit playing before their freshman year. Many others that just burned out from almost year round schedule.

The only advice I would give every parent who has a child involved is to closely monitor their kids. Highly competitive kids should play higher levels of the sport if they choose Kids that just like playing but do not have much interest in all the training should play rec league type of sports. The parents should be able to tell what kind of league their child belongs in.

I'd like this a million times if I could.

My son has turned down all-stars every year he's played as well as multiple invites to travel ball teams. I even had one travel team that was so hell-bent on getting Chris to play, the coach offered to 'take care' of the fees. Every time, my son told them the same thing: 'No thanks, July and August are when I go to mom-mom and pop-pop's to fish and swim (my parents live, literally, 500 yards from the water)'.

That's pretty friggin cool, Chris. Kudos!

 

[oso diablo]

here's a good read that my son's 10U coach shared: The Matheny Manifesto

from Mike Matheny, as he began coaching his son's youth baseball team.

 

[Deranged Hermit]

IMO it depends of the kids playing. Both my daughter played college volleyball. That was never my intention when they started. My oldest daughter was in 7th grade playing in a CYO volleyball league when I started getting calls at my home from club teams and HS Catholic school coaches about her. Then my younger one by one year started getting the same and it snowballed into HS ball, then spring club ball and national travel volleyball all over the country. Every year I asked them "Are you having fun and do you want to keep this pace up?" They loved it and actually enjoyed working out and doing all the summer camps at colleges. I never wanted them to play just for me like many kids do.

That being said I saw first hand many girls who were great athletes but pushed so hard by their parents that they quit the game. I know 2 that had full scholarships at Big Ten schools that quit playing before their freshman year. Many others that just burned out from almost year round schedule.

The only advice I would give every parent who has a child involved is to closely monitor their kids. Highly competitive kids should play higher levels of the sport if they choose Kids that just like playing but do not have much interest in all the training should play rec league type of sports. The parents should be able to tell what kind of league their child belongs in.

I'd like this a million times if I could.

My son has turned down all-stars every year he's played as well as multiple invites to travel ball teams. I even had one travel team that was so hell-bent on getting Chris to play, the coach offered to 'take care' of the fees. Every time, my son told them the same thing: 'No thanks, July and August are when I go to mom-mom and pop-pop's to fish and swim (my parents live, literally, 500 yards from the water)'.

And you know what? If he still loves the sport, he will still have plenty of time to practice/train and get really good at it. Missing those "opportunities" will not hinder his development at all. Also, he will be making memories with family and developing a better sense of priorities. Good for you for realizing that and not pushing him into it.

I reffed a girls HS basketball camp this Summer and the best player was a Freshman. The word is that she has never been on a travel/elite team. She was dominating girls who were high quality seniors and all she has ever done is play for her school and in local leagues. She is a D-1 player right now and has 4 years to get better. Her secret? Her dad is a coach and she spends time in the gym practicing and doing drills. If your kid wants to be a great player, that is a much better approach than teaming up on some thrown together team to play in a tournament 100 miles away.

Playing on those teams doesn't do anything. Sure a kid needs to play some to improve, but not at the expense of good practice time and quality of life. There will be plenty of time to play games.

He loves baseball, it's his favorite sport, but he (and I) both feel that between school ball and rec ball, that's more than enough. In the off season, I'll take him to the field and throw him a few buckets of balls and go through some fielding drills, but that's it and he'll play with his buddies in the neighborhood. Our home field for rec ball is only two blocks away from the house, so it's easy.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Also, there may be a few things in life worse than T-ball, but I can't think of too many. That truly is the bottom of the barrell for youth sports.

Worst thing I ever saw was 4 and 5 year olds playing soccer. It's just a big mob of kids moving around the field and somewhere in the middle of it is a soccer ball.

Yeah, but the clock is moving and the action is at least, well....action. Have you done T-ball yet? If not, a primer.

- There are no outs. Repeat, no outs. Even if by some miracle or act of nature, the first baseman fields a hit ball and steps on the bag in advance of the runner, he/she is SAFE and remains on the bag.

- Everybody on the team bats each inning. 10 players? 10 at bats. 12 players? 12 at bats, etc.

- The player swings at the ball on the Tee until he/she hits it. You ever watch blind people try and hit a pinada? It's a lot like that, only worse.

- There's no clock. There's no 'hurry up'. In the immortal words of Fudge in Higher Learning: "It's over when it's over, dude".

My boys are 12 and 10 now. Yes t-ball is exactly what you describe. The big difference is despite how ridiculous the rules of t-ball are, the kids get a chance to do the fundamentals of baseball, which are to hit, catch, run and throw. 5 years old playing soccer don't actually learn anything about playing soccer. The ball is set on the field and the mob moves it around for an hour.

Your league sounds bad. Kids from K-2 around here play 4v4. They kick, they dribble, they play a little defense. They are learning a lot about playing soccer.

 

[parrot]

My son turned down an offer to play u11 at the top soccer club in the area this year and instead stayed with his club from last year. The coaches from the bigger club put the full court press on all weekend until I made very clear his decision was final. They made no bones about their opinion that it should be my decision, not his. I was surprised when several of our friends also said, "you made a mistake" as though it was my job to force him to play for this club he didn't like. I was a little disappointed, but completely support his decision to stay with his friends and have fun playing at this age.

My daughter was selected to play in a state All-Star game for softball, but decided she didn't want to play. When people ask us why she isn't playing and we tell them it was her decision and she didn't want to they look at us like we have a third eye. Of course a lot of these people are still suspicious of us since we "let" her quit travel ball a couple years ago.

 

[Deranged Hermit]

IMO it depends of the kids playing. Both my daughter played college volleyball. That was never my intention when they started. My oldest daughter was in 7th grade playing in a CYO volleyball league when I started getting calls at my home from club teams and HS Catholic school coaches about her. Then my younger one by one year started getting the same and it snowballed into HS ball, then spring club ball and national travel volleyball all over the country. Every year I asked them "Are you having fun and do you want to keep this pace up?" They loved it and actually enjoyed working out and doing all the summer camps at colleges. I never wanted them to play just for me like many kids do.

That being said I saw first hand many girls who were great athletes but pushed so hard by their parents that they quit the game. I know 2 that had full scholarships at Big Ten schools that quit playing before their freshman year. Many others that just burned out from almost year round schedule.

The only advice I would give every parent who has a child involved is to closely monitor their kids. Highly competitive kids should play higher levels of the sport if they choose Kids that just like playing but do not have much interest in all the training should play rec league type of sports. The parents should be able to tell what kind of league their child belongs in.

I'd like this a million times if I could.

My son has turned down all-stars every year he's played as well as multiple invites to travel ball teams. I even had one travel team that was so hell-bent on getting Chris to play, the coach offered to 'take care' of the fees. Every time, my son told them the same thing: 'No thanks, July and August are when I go to mom-mom and pop-pop's to fish and swim (my parents live, literally, 500 yards from the water)'.

That's pretty friggin cool, Chris. Kudos!

My mother in law (not the one that lives at the beach) once asked him, "why don't you try all stars just once to see if you like it". His response, "I already know I'm good, I don't need to be on an all star team to prove it". We had a discussion about humility after that.

I asked him is he regretted not playing this year since the team won states and went to NY to play in a big tournament. His response, "Nah, we caught a bunch of flounder and crabs this weekend. I guarantee we ate better than they did".

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

And many parents over value their kids skill level.

This leading to the "college scholarship" aspirations.

 

[NCCommish]

IMO it depends of the kids playing. Both my daughter played college volleyball. That was never my intention when they started. My oldest daughter was in 7th grade playing in a CYO volleyball league when I started getting calls at my home from club teams and HS Catholic school coaches about her. Then my younger one by one year started getting the same and it snowballed into HS ball, then spring club ball and national travel volleyball all over the country. Every year I asked them "Are you having fun and do you want to keep this pace up?" They loved it and actually enjoyed working out and doing all the summer camps at colleges. I never wanted them to play just for me like many kids do.

That being said I saw first hand many girls who were great athletes but pushed so hard by their parents that they quit the game. I know 2 that had full scholarships at Big Ten schools that quit playing before their freshman year. Many others that just burned out from almost year round schedule.

The only advice I would give every parent who has a child involved is to closely monitor their kids. Highly competitive kids should play higher levels of the sport if they choose Kids that just like playing but do not have much interest in all the training should play rec league type of sports. The parents should be able to tell what kind of league their child belongs in.

I'd like this a million times if I could.My son has turned down all-stars every year he's played as well as multiple invites to travel ball teams. I even had one travel team that was so hell-bent on getting Chris to play, the coach offered to 'take care' of the fees. Every time, my son told them the same thing: 'No thanks, July and August are when I go to mom-mom and pop-pop's to fish and swim (my parents live, literally, 500 yards from the water)'.

That's pretty friggin cool, Chris. Kudos!

My mother in law (not the one that lives at the beach) once asked him, "why don't you try all stars just once to see if you like it". His response, "I already know I'm good, I don't need to be on an all star team to prove it". We had a discussion about humility after that.I asked him is he regretted not playing this year since the team won states and went to NY to play in a big tournament. His response, "Nah, we caught a bunch of flounder and crabs this weekend. I guarantee we ate better than they did".

Sounds like a good kid, congrats.

 

[NCCommish]

Travel ball by and large is a soul sucking money grab. I have seen kid after kid quit altogether after spending every minute in a baseball uniform. And there are no full rides for baseball. They don't get the kind of scholarship pool to do that. Kids get partials at best. Travel coaches love to lay on the scholarship BS thick while you write the check. I know guys that quit regular jobs because they made so much running travel teams.

 

[Politician Spock]

Also, there may be a few things in life worse than T-ball, but I can't think of too many. That truly is the bottom of the barrell for youth sports.

Worst thing I ever saw was 4 and 5 year olds playing soccer. It's just a big mob of kids moving around the field and somewhere in the middle of it is a soccer ball.

Yeah, but the clock is moving and the action is at least, well....action. Have you done T-ball yet? If not, a primer.

- There are no outs. Repeat, no outs. Even if by some miracle or act of nature, the first baseman fields a hit ball and steps on the bag in advance of the runner, he/she is SAFE and remains on the bag.

- Everybody on the team bats each inning. 10 players? 10 at bats. 12 players? 12 at bats, etc.

- The player swings at the ball on the Tee until he/she hits it. You ever watch blind people try and hit a pinada? It's a lot like that, only worse.

- There's no clock. There's no 'hurry up'. In the immortal words of Fudge in Higher Learning: "It's over when it's over, dude".

My boys are 12 and 10 now. Yes t-ball is exactly what you describe. The big difference is despite how ridiculous the rules of t-ball are, the kids get a chance to do the fundamentals of baseball, which are to hit, catch, run and throw. 5 years old playing soccer don't actually learn anything about playing soccer. The ball is set on the field and the mob moves it around for an hour.

Your league sounds bad. Kids from K-2 around here play 4v4. They kick, they dribble, they play a little defense. They are learning a lot about playing soccer.

I agree.

 

[randall146]

My son turned down an offer to play u11 at the top soccer club in the area this year and instead stayed with his club from last year. The coaches from the bigger club put the full court press on all weekend until I made very clear his decision was final. They made no bones about their opinion that it should be my decision, not his. I was surprised when several of our friends also said, "you made a mistake" as though it was my job to force him to play for this club he didn't like. I was a little disappointed, but completely support his decision to stay with his friends and have fun playing at this age.

Sounds like saying no was the best choice for your kid, though I actually agree with the coaches that it should be the parents' decision, not the kid's. Kids have no idea what's in their best interest long term (whether that means he should or shouldn't play travel, or practice their instrument, or hang out with a certain crowd, or take advanced level classes).

 

[parrot]

Travel ball by and large is a soul sucking money grab. I have seen kid after kid quit altogether after spending every minute in a baseball uniform. And there are no full rides for baseball. They don't get the kind of scholarship pool to do that. Kids get partials at best. Travel coaches love to lay on the scholarship BS thick while you write the check. I know guys that quit regular jobs because they made so much running travel teams.

Same with softball. Our good friends have a daughter who played "college exposure" level ball for 3 years. They spent 10s of thousands on it over the years. She ended up getting a partial scholarship of a couple thousand a year. They would have been money way ahead just putting the money they spent in account for her.

 

[NCCommish]

My son turned down an offer to play u11 at the top soccer club in the area this year and instead stayed with his club from last year. The coaches from the bigger club put the full court press on all weekend until I made very clear his decision was final. They made no bones about their opinion that it should be my decision, not his. I was surprised when several of our friends also said, "you made a mistake" as though it was my job to force him to play for this club he didn't like. I was a little disappointed, but completely support his decision to stay with his friends and have fun playing at this age.

Sounds like saying no was the best choice for your kid, though I actually agree with the coaches that it should be the parents' decision, not the kid's. Kids have no idea what's in their best interest long term (whether that means he should or shouldn't play travel, or practice their instrument, or hang out with a certain crowd, or take advanced level classes).

Kids know what they want to play and when they want to play it. Forcing them makes you one of those parents. Don't be them.

 

[randall146]

My son turned down an offer to play u11 at the top soccer club in the area this year and instead stayed with his club from last year. The coaches from the bigger club put the full court press on all weekend until I made very clear his decision was final. They made no bones about their opinion that it should be my decision, not his. I was surprised when several of our friends also said, "you made a mistake" as though it was my job to force him to play for this club he didn't like. I was a little disappointed, but completely support his decision to stay with his friends and have fun playing at this age.

Sounds like saying no was the best choice for your kid, though I actually agree with the coaches that it should be the parents' decision, not the kid's. Kids have no idea what's in their best interest long term (whether that means he should or shouldn't play travel, or practice their instrument, or hang out with a certain crowd, or take advanced level classes).

Kids know what they want to play and when they want to play it. Forcing them makes you one of those parents. Don't be them.

my point was more nuanced than that. I'm not saying make the kid play even if he doesn't want to. I'm saying parents should make decisions based on their kids short and long term well being. For example, if a kid was struggling in school because he was playing baseball 4 nights during the week, it's up to the parent to put the sports brakes on, despite the kid wanting to keep playing.

If a kid didn't want to do swim team because he was afraid to dive, but you knew he'd have a blast, it's up to the parent to convince him to do it even though he doesn't want too.

 

[NCCommish]

My son turned down an offer to play u11 at the top soccer club in the area this year and instead stayed with his club from last year. The coaches from the bigger club put the full court press on all weekend until I made very clear his decision was final. They made no bones about their opinion that it should be my decision, not his. I was surprised when several of our friends also said, "you made a mistake" as though it was my job to force him to play for this club he didn't like. I was a little disappointed, but completely support his decision to stay with his friends and have fun playing at this age.

Sounds like saying no was the best choice for your kid, though I actually agree with the coaches that it should be the parents' decision, not the kid's. Kids have no idea what's in their best interest long term (whether that means he should or shouldn't play travel, or practice their instrument, or hang out with a certain crowd, or take advanced level classes).

Kids know what they want to play and when they want to play it. Forcing them makes you one of those parents. Don't be them.

my point was more nuanced than that. I'm not saying make the kid play even if he doesn't want to. I'm saying parents should make decisions based on their kids short and long term well being. For example, if a kid was struggling in school because he was playing baseball 4 nights during the week, it's up to the parent to put the sports brakes on, despite the kid wanting to keep playing.

If a kid didn't want to do swim team because he was afraid to dive, but you knew he'd have a blast, it's up to the parent to convince him to do it even though he doesn't want too.

I agree on the cutting back bit not the cajole/brow beat into participating bit.

 

[Rove!]

I have absolutely no issue with 1) up to a certain level. It should be all about learning and letting everybody have fun. Just because you don't keep score doesn't make it any less competitive.

 

[Sabertooth]

My wife and I were so glad when our girls both decided to get out of softball at age 8 and 9 respectively. Whew.

 

[Hawks64]

I hear people ranting all the time about the following two things, roughly in equal proportion:

1) Youth sports is no longer competitive. Parents are afraid to let their kids fail. Every kid is a special flower these days that needs to be coddled. Whether it's every player getting trophies, the worst players getting equal playing time, mercy rules, or even not keeping score at all, kids are no longer experiencing the highs and lows of competition, of winning and losing. Instead, all these parents care about is making little Johnny feel like he's a winner, even when he strikes out 15 times in a row, or can't make a free throw to save his life. The wussification of America continues, and all these wussified parents are destroying the competitive spirit and drive to succeed.

For us this is our Park District sports

2) Youth sports is too competitive. Parents are hypercompetitive and all they care about is that little Johnny and his team win at all costs. Whether it's screaming at coaches and umps during the game, making their kids play a single sport year round, paying thousands of dollars for trainers and individual instruction, parents are too damn competitive and sucking the fun out of youth sports. It's no longer about having a good time and going out for pizza after the game, win or lose. Now it's about winning the league, making it to select ball or a traveling team. It's about parents spending an hour after every game lecturing their kids on how they could have played better. It's about practicing drills endlessly in the back yard, rather than just having a catch with your dad. Parents are living vicariously through their kids, are too freaking competitive, and are burning out their kids on what used to be a fun game.

So which is the greater issue? Which is happening with more frequency? Which is more damaging to our kids?

This is the majority of club teams in our area.

 

[Sabertooth]

You know what really pisses me off though is the pan handling and fund raising so little Suzy to go to ___________ ( regionals, sectional, states...whatever). I don't fund raise so my kid can go skiing in the winter. It's pathetic.

 

[randall146]

My son turned down an offer to play u11 at the top soccer club in the area this year and instead stayed with his club from last year. The coaches from the bigger club put the full court press on all weekend until I made very clear his decision was final. They made no bones about their opinion that it should be my decision, not his. I was surprised when several of our friends also said, "you made a mistake" as though it was my job to force him to play for this club he didn't like. I was a little disappointed, but completely support his decision to stay with his friends and have fun playing at this age.

Sounds like saying no was the best choice for your kid, though I actually agree with the coaches that it should be the parents' decision, not the kid's. Kids have no idea what's in their best interest long term (whether that means he should or shouldn't play travel, or practice their instrument, or hang out with a certain crowd, or take advanced level classes).

Kids know what they want to play and when they want to play it. Forcing them makes you one of those parents. Don't be them.

my point was more nuanced than that. I'm not saying make the kid play even if he doesn't want to. I'm saying parents should make decisions based on their kids short and long term well being. For example, if a kid was struggling in school because he was playing baseball 4 nights during the week, it's up to the parent to put the sports brakes on, despite the kid wanting to keep playing.

If a kid didn't want to do swim team because he was afraid to dive, but you knew he'd have a blast, it's up to the parent to convince him to do it even though he doesn't want too.

I agree on the cutting back bit not the cajole/brow beat into participating bit.

Some kids need a challenge to learn their own potential, conquer a fear, etc. The swim team example is my 9 year old this summer. I made him do it. He loves it now, gets up nice and early to do it, and is getting great exercise. He's not particularly fast, btw, and neither he or I care.

 

[Brony]

My daughter was begged by Jimmy Carter to play soccer for the U.S. national super cup team at age 8. She passed so that she can devote time to her basement oncology program for Jesus. I know that curing cancer will be nice and all but I couldn't help watch the Women's World Cup and wonder "what if?"

 

[matuski]

I have to go #2.

 

[Rove!]

I have to go #2.

You can do that and post here at the same time...

 

[Don't Noonan]

My son just turned 9 in March and I have been coaching him the past 4 years in recreational baseball in both the spring and fall. We were approached a few years ago for him to try out for a club baseball team but we declined. My reasoning was I didn't want my son to get burnt out on baseball and more importantly hurt his arm from playing to much. I also wanted him to be able to play other sports and not just focus on baseball. I pitched professionally for 7 years in the Seattle Mariners organization and made it on the 40 man roster my last few years in AAA. I didn't play year round baseball as a kid so I don't think it is necessary.

However, he and his friends have developed very well and are ready for the challenge for club tournaments. I spoke to a few assistant coaches and we decided to form our own club team so that we can control how long the season is. We are playing in 7 tournaments this fall starting on September and ending the first week of December. We will then shut it down for the winter to allow kids to play other winter sports. In the spring, we will probably go back to recreational little league baseball. This allows him to get club experience and also keeps him from playing year round.

 

[acarey50]

My son just turned 9 in March and I have been coaching him the past 4 years in recreational baseball in both the spring and fall. We were approached a few years ago for him to try out for a club baseball team but we declined. My reasoning was I didn't want my son to get burnt out on baseball and more importantly hurt his arm from playing to much. I also wanted him to be able to play other sports and not just focus on baseball. I pitched professionally for 7 years in the Seattle Mariners organization and made it on the 40 man roster my last few years in AAA. I didn't play year round baseball as a kid so I don't think it is necessary.

However, he and his friends have developed very well and are ready for the challenge for club tournaments. I spoke to a few assistant coaches and we decided to form our own club team so that we can control how long the season is. We are playing in 7 tournaments this fall starting on September and ending the first week of December. We will then shut it down for the winter to allow kids to play other winter sports. In the spring, we will probably go back to recreational little league baseball. This allows him to get club experience and also keeps him from playing year round.

Sounds like a great idea.

I'll likely be doing something similar for my son who turns 11 in October, only this will be for basketball. We'll play in a club level league which will run late November thru early March, shut it down for a couple months, then likely with the majority of this team enter a few tournaments during the summer. Most of the kids on the team play club soccer and a lot play baseball, so this gives them plenty of time to enjoy those other sports, not burn out on basketball, but still play at a level that will challenge them.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

Regarding scholarships, by the time my son was 10 we knew that there was no such thing as a full ride in baseball, and I think if your kid is playing on a more competitive level, you probably learn the same thing early on. I'm not saying that travel ball isn't money grab, but at the same time most parents shouldn't be so naive as to not recognize what's going on. What hit me early on in the travel sports experience was the experiences themselves; from the simple act of traveling to places within the state that we wouldn't otherwise see, to the longer trips which culminated in Cooperstown for me and Disneyworld for my son, I decided early on that we were investing in experiences and memories as well as giving him the chance to go as far as his abilities could take him, so to me it was money well spent, as in addition to all the experiences and memories, he has fallen in with a great group of other kids that he has played with AND against over the years, and many could turn into great lifelong friendships.

Now, my son is entering his junior year in HS and is playing on a 'showcase' team, which is actually our first experience with the "moneygrab" aspect, but as before, I know exactly what we're paying for and I'm still not looking for a financial return on my investment but rather a chance for him to continue on this arc in his life until it reaches whatever end it comes to. At this point, if he gets to play ball in college, that will just be icing on the cake, and even if he doesn't, I won't regret one dollar that we've spent along the way.

 

[General Malaise]

My son just turned 9 in March and I have been coaching him the past 4 years in recreational baseball in both the spring and fall. We were approached a few years ago for him to try out for a club baseball team but we declined. My reasoning was I didn't want my son to get burnt out on baseball and more importantly hurt his arm from playing to much. I also wanted him to be able to play other sports and not just focus on baseball. I pitched professionally for 7 years in the Seattle Mariners organization and made it on the 40 man roster my last few years in AAA. I didn't play year round baseball as a kid so I don't think it is necessary.

However, he and his friends have developed very well and are ready for the challenge for club tournaments. I spoke to a few assistant coaches and we decided to form our own club team so that we can control how long the season is. We are playing in 7 tournaments this fall starting on September and ending the first week of December. We will then shut it down for the winter to allow kids to play other winter sports. In the spring, we will probably go back to recreational little league baseball. This allows him to get club experience and also keeps him from playing year round.

Nice!

So if you're a Ducks fan, assuming you graduated from Oregon (I'm a fan and didn't attend, so I get it) where did you play college ball?

 

[sbonomo]

IMO it depends of the kids playing. Both my daughter played college volleyball. That was never my intention when they started. My oldest daughter was in 7th grade playing in a CYO volleyball league when I started getting calls at my home from club teams and HS Catholic school coaches about her. Then my younger one by one year started getting the same and it snowballed into HS ball, then spring club ball and national travel volleyball all over the country. Every year I asked them "Are you having fun and do you want to keep this pace up?" They loved it and actually enjoyed working out and doing all the summer camps at colleges. I never wanted them to play just for me like many kids do.

That being said I saw first hand many girls who were great athletes but pushed so hard by their parents that they quit the game. I know 2 that had full scholarships at Big Ten schools that quit playing before their freshman year. Many others that just burned out from almost year round schedule.

The only advice I would give every parent who has a child involved is to closely monitor their kids. Highly competitive kids should play higher levels of the sport if they choose Kids that just like playing but do not have much interest in all the training should play rec league type of sports. The parents should be able to tell what kind of league their child belongs in.

I'd like this a million times if I could.

My son has turned down all-stars every year he's played as well as multiple invites to travel ball teams. I even had one travel team that was so hell-bent on getting Chris to play, the coach offered to 'take care' of the fees. Every time, my son told them the same thing: 'No thanks, July and August are when I go to mom-mom and pop-pop's to fish and swim (my parents live, literally, 500 yards from the water)'.

And you know what? If he still loves the sport, he will still have plenty of time to practice/train and get really good at it. Missing those "opportunities" will not hinder his development at all. Also, he will be making memories with family and developing a better sense of priorities. Good for you for realizing that and not pushing him into it.

I reffed a girls HS basketball camp this Summer and the best player was a Freshman. The word is that she has never been on a travel/elite team. She was dominating girls who were high quality seniors and all she has ever done is play for her school and in local leagues. She is a D-1 player right now and has 4 years to get better. Her secret? Her dad is a coach and she spends time in the gym practicing and doing drills. If your kid wants to be a great player, that is a much better approach than teaming up on some thrown together team to play in a tournament 100 miles away.

Playing on those teams doesn't do anything. Sure a kid needs to play some to improve, but not at the expense of good practice time and quality of life. There will be plenty of time to play games.

you think you are exaggerating a bit here....

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

Regarding scholarships, by the time my son was 10 we knew that there was no such thing as a full ride in baseball, and I think if your kid is playing on a more competitive level, you probably learn the same thing early on. I'm not saying that travel ball isn't money grab, but at the same time most parents shouldn't be so naive as to not recognize what's going on. What hit me early on in the travel sports experience was the experiences themselves; from the simple act of traveling to places within the state that we wouldn't otherwise see, to the longer trips which culminated in Cooperstown for me and Disneyworld for my son, I decided early on that we were investing in experiences and memories as well as giving him the chance to go as far as his abilities could take him, so to me it was money well spent, as in addition to all the experiences and memories, he has fallen in with a great group of other kids that he has played with AND against over the years, and many could turn into great lifelong friendships.

Now, my son is entering his junior year in HS and is playing on a 'showcase' team, which is actually our first experience with the "moneygrab" aspect, but as before, I know exactly what we're paying for and I'm still not looking for a financial return on my investment but rather a chance for him to continue on this arc in his life until it reaches whatever end it comes to. At this point, if he gets to play ball in college, that will just be icing on the cake, and even if he doesn't, I won't regret one dollar that we've spent along the way.

Well put. I have 5 kids, but only one who wanted to go the travel baseball route. What I think is the BIG money grab is all of these local college "showcases" where you pay $100 to get evaluated (along with 100+ other kids) in front of "scouts" and "college recruiters". Most of these are a complete joke and a way for the college to help fund their baseball program. The problem is sorting the decent camps from the money grabs. Essentially, if your kid has college aspirations just get them registered through NAIA and NCAA clearinghouse - and keep their grades up. Getting a spot on a college team is not difficult if you are not overestimating your kid's ability and your kid has the grades/test scores to go a long with their talent. The problem is everyone thinks their kid is D1 talent - when in reality, most positions attainable are in D2 or D3.

 

[Don't Noonan]

My son just turned 9 in March and I have been coaching him the past 4 years in recreational baseball in both the spring and fall. We were approached a few years ago for him to try out for a club baseball team but we declined. My reasoning was I didn't want my son to get burnt out on baseball and more importantly hurt his arm from playing to much. I also wanted him to be able to play other sports and not just focus on baseball. I pitched professionally for 7 years in the Seattle Mariners organization and made it on the 40 man roster my last few years in AAA. I didn't play year round baseball as a kid so I don't think it is necessary.

However, he and his friends have developed very well and are ready for the challenge for club tournaments. I spoke to a few assistant coaches and we decided to form our own club team so that we can control how long the season is. We are playing in 7 tournaments this fall starting on September and ending the first week of December. We will then shut it down for the winter to allow kids to play other winter sports. In the spring, we will probably go back to recreational little league baseball. This allows him to get club experience and also keeps him from playing year round.

Nice!

So if you're a Ducks fan, assuming you graduated from Oregon (I'm a fan and didn't attend, so I get it) where did you play college ball?

I grew up in Eugene but played college baseball at Portland State University back when they had a baseball team and were in the Pac 12 north.

 

[belljr]

And many parents over value their kids skill level.

This leading to the "college scholarship" aspirations.

This will sound look at me but its not meant to be. I have no grand illusions of scholarships. I just hope she sticks with it and can play in hs. I try to not to push too hard but she has talent. The 2 10u travel coaches from last year emailed me about her playing and I was dead set against it. But it was nice too know where other people thought of her. Just more of ok I'm not "wrong" thinking she could play

 

[Ray Karpis]

It's really both, and it's why many sports are splitting in two - rec vs. travel ball. The split isn't 100% a bad thing - it let's players and parents who just want to have fun and experience a sport do that. If I had to pick #2 is the worst, because many parents have in their head that just because little Johnny is coordinated at 10 and one of the better players while he might not make the pros, he can at least get a college scholarship. Hence the private lessons, the lectures, the burn out, the Tommy John surgeries, etc. John Smoltz said so much in his Hall of Fame speech yesterday. These sports, especially baseball, are not meant to be played year round by young kids.

This is right on. So many parents are fixated on making sure their kid has the best instruction and plays against the best competition, so the kid can better develop as a player. What's driving that? It has to be more than just wanting the kid to excel in youth sports. I really do think a big number are motivated by this notion that their kid is going to play college ball (or beyond), and they would be doing a disservice to the kid if they didn't give him every opportunity to develop his talent...regardless of the cost or time required.

It's insane to basically plan your family's entire existence around some vague dream that your 10-year-old might get a college scholarship to play baseball (they do realize baseball scholarships are not full rides, right?).

Look, I'm really into youth baseball...I've coached for many years, league commissioner, all-star tournaments, etc., and I have two boys that are good. I can see how easy it would be to get sucked into the private instruction, every weekend tournaments, etc....basically letting kids baseball take over our family. But in the end, I don't really care whether they ever play baseball past Little League. It just doesn't matter that much, and I'm not going to invest an inordinate amount of time and money into making sure they have every advantage to try to get to an elite level. If they're good enough and stay interested in it, it'll work itself out.

 

[Ray Karpis]

My son just turned 9 in March and I have been coaching him the past 4 years in recreational baseball in both the spring and fall. We were approached a few years ago for him to try out for a club baseball team but we declined. My reasoning was I didn't want my son to get burnt out on baseball and more importantly hurt his arm from playing to much. I also wanted him to be able to play other sports and not just focus on baseball. I pitched professionally for 7 years in the Seattle Mariners organization and made it on the 40 man roster my last few years in AAA. I didn't play year round baseball as a kid so I don't think it is necessary.

However, he and his friends have developed very well and are ready for the challenge for club tournaments. I spoke to a few assistant coaches and we decided to form our own club team so that we can control how long the season is. We are playing in 7 tournaments this fall starting on September and ending the first week of December. We will then shut it down for the winter to allow kids to play other winter sports. In the spring, we will probably go back to recreational little league baseball. This allows him to get club experience and also keeps him from playing year round.

That seems like a ton of baseball for the fall.

 

[DCThunder]

I haven't read the entire thread, but do kids ever just get together on their own and play sports of any kind without it being organized by adults? Do Johnny and Billy and Jose and Mustafa ever play 2 on 2 hoops in somebody's driveway or play some variety of baseball or wiffleball?

That's how kids learned to play and love sports back when dinosaurs roamed the land...

 

[Don't Noonan]

My son just turned 9 in March and I have been coaching him the past 4 years in recreational baseball in both the spring and fall. We were approached a few years ago for him to try out for a club baseball team but we declined. My reasoning was I didn't want my son to get burnt out on baseball and more importantly hurt his arm from playing to much. I also wanted him to be able to play other sports and not just focus on baseball. I pitched professionally for 7 years in the Seattle Mariners organization and made it on the 40 man roster my last few years in AAA. I didn't play year round baseball as a kid so I don't think it is necessary.

However, he and his friends have developed very well and are ready for the challenge for club tournaments. I spoke to a few assistant coaches and we decided to form our own club team so that we can control how long the season is. We are playing in 7 tournaments this fall starting on September and ending the first week of December. We will then shut it down for the winter to allow kids to play other winter sports. In the spring, we will probably go back to recreational little league baseball. This allows him to get club experience and also keeps him from playing year round.

That seems like a ton of baseball for the fall.

We had been playing in a fall recreational league for the past 4 or 5 years which ended in early November so this will be a month longer

 

[Rick James]

My son will be playing on his first "select" type team this fall. He will be playing on a basketball team in a fairly competitive league. My good friend, who is a HS girls basketball coach, is putting the team together and will be coaching them. His approach is fundamentals and hard work. He is also the funniest guy I know, so the kids will have fun, but learn a lot.

I'm curious to see how my son handles this, but after three years of rec leagues, he is ready for some increased competition. His baseball league this season was exceptionally boring to him with no keeping score, nobody advancing extra bases, strict run limits, etc. He has been the best player on his last few teams this year (LOOK AT ME!!!) by virtue of being the oldest/biggest, and he really needs a challenge. I think this league will be good for him.

Unfortunately, I'm going to miss most of the games as the league plays on Friday nights when I'll be reffing HS football.

I guess the real question is - can your son take a WNBA player 1 v 1?

 

[PIK95]

I haven't read the entire thread, but do kids ever just get together on their own and play sports of any kind without it being organized by adults? Do Johnny and Billy and Jose and Mustafa ever play 2 on 2 hoops in somebody's driveway or play some variety of baseball or wiffleball?

That's how kids learned to play and love sports back when dinosaurs roamed the land...

I set up soccer nets so that the 8-12 kids can play pickup games on our fields just for fun. Ironically a kid names Mustafa played this week for the first time. It was run by the kids. Good times.

 

[snellman]

I haven't read the entire thread, but do kids ever just get together on their own and play sports of any kind without it being organized by adults? Do Johnny and Billy and Jose and Mustafa ever play 2 on 2 hoops in somebody's driveway or play some variety of baseball or wiffleball?

That's how kids learned to play and love sports back when dinosaurs roamed the land...

You don't see that anymore because of IMO, 1) Parents have their kids in so many organized activities there is no time to just be a kid anymore. 2) Parents are so afraid of the "big bad abductor" that they won't let their kids roam free to go find kids to play a game.

 

[roadkill1292]

I haven't read the entire thread, but do kids ever just get together on their own and play sports of any kind without it being organized by adults? Do Johnny and Billy and Jose and Mustafa ever play 2 on 2 hoops in somebody's driveway or play some variety of baseball or wiffleball?

That's how kids learned to play and love sports back when dinosaurs roamed the land...

I set up soccer nets so that the 8-12 kids can play pickup games on our fields just for fun. Ironically a kid names Mustafa played this week for the first time. It was run by the kids. Good times.

That's encouraging to hear. I've also read about some communities which make their fields available evenings and off seasons and even have volunteers who will drive kids to the fields for some unsupervised play time.

That was pretty much all we had when I was a kid. And we had to chase velociraptors off the fields first.

 

[acarey50]

I haven't read the entire thread, but do kids ever just get together on their own and play sports of any kind without it being organized by adults? Do Johnny and Billy and Jose and Mustafa ever play 2 on 2 hoops in somebody's driveway or play some variety of baseball or wiffleball?

That's how kids learned to play and love sports back when dinosaurs roamed the land...

My son will play some version of basketball in our backyard with his buddies when they are around.

The hard part around here is that the cities are very strict on field use - it's a money grab (though I do understand their liability concerns to a point). I understand needing a permit to run an organized practice, even though it sucks when a ranger will come and kick you off an unused field for it.

But by city rule, I could not head to the park with the neighborhood kids and play a game of touch or flag football or soccer, as anything with more than 5 or 6 people or that looks too organized requires a permit.

Now, we still do it, it just sucks that I can be cited/kicked off and made to look like a bad guy in front of the kids because I'm going out and having some fun with them and in some cases marking off a field for them to play on with cones, etc.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I haven't read the entire thread, but do kids ever just get together on their own and play sports of any kind without it being organized by adults? Do Johnny and Billy and Jose and Mustafa ever play 2 on 2 hoops in somebody's driveway or play some variety of baseball or wiffleball?

That's how kids learned to play and love sports back when dinosaurs roamed the land...

My son will play some version of basketball in our backyard with his buddies when they are around.

The hard part around here is that the cities are very strict on field use - it's a money grab (though I do understand their liability concerns to a point). I understand needing a permit to run an organized practice, even though it sucks when a ranger will come and kick you off an unused field for it.

But by city rule, I could not head to the park with the neighborhood kids and play a game of touch or flag football or soccer, as anything with more than 5 or 6 people or that looks too organized requires a permit.

Now, we still do it, it just sucks that I can be cited/kicked off and made to look like a bad guy in front of the kids because I'm going out and having some fun with them and in some cases marking off a field for them to play on with cones, etc.

If you're there, that's not what DCThunder is talking about.

I don't think my two daughters have ever played anything resembling a pickup game in their lives. My older daughter used to play "knockout" at recess but that's the closest approximation I can think of.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I would say that the second is more of a problem.

As others have noted, there are more splits happening in terms of competition levels. So kids who don't want to be super-competitive can find their outlets. And kids who do have theirs, too. I don't think that anyone is really hurt by being in a less competitive league. I would suspect that those with more "competitive juices", as it were, are naturally inclined that way and/or can have that nurtured in other ways.

On the other hand, kids who don't have it in them probably can be hurt by being in an excessively competitive league. And there are also kids who might like it, but can be pushed too hard.

Really, most of the problems have to do with the parents' interests, especially when they put them ahead of the kids'. Edit: which is not just on the hyper-competitive side, but also on the anti-competitive side.

 

[General Malaise]

I haven't read the entire thread, but do kids ever just get together on their own and play sports of any kind without it being organized by adults? Do Johnny and Billy and Jose and Mustafa ever play 2 on 2 hoops in somebody's driveway or play some variety of baseball or wiffleball?

That's how kids learned to play and love sports back when dinosaurs roamed the land...

My 11 year old son plays hoops with the kids in the neighborhood all the time. We've got a hoop in our driveway and I'm always asked to move the cars so he can play with his friends. They'll play anything from 1-1 to 21 to HORSE. He also plays football games at recess with his buddies, but I don't think he'll be able to do that in 6th grade...

They also play 500 all the time with the football, but that's not really a game of football. Regardless, we have to drag him in for dinner. ldschool:

My 12 year old son could do more outside. He lives behind his computer, but is on the swim team and likes to ride his bike. But he as zero interest in hoops or football. :(

 

[belljr]

500?

 

[Long Ball Larry]

500?

oh, come on.

 

[General Malaise]

500?

oh, come on.

Maybe it's a west coast thing.

One person is the QB. He throws the ball to a group of receivers who battle to catch it. While the ball is in the air, he shouts out a number. Person that catches it gets the score. First one to 500 wins. Maybe not as cool as Super Mario, but it's something to pass the time. They let me QB a lot and I have to say, it's kinda fun.