Youth team building - basketball (1 Viewer)

[SpurrierisisGod]

I coach a 4th grade basketball team. I truly believe we have the best team in the league. We stated off 3-0 based strictly on talent. It never really felt like we really played a complete game though. I thought it would work itself out as we played more together.

We are now 4-3 and I feel like I am in danger of losing this team.10 kids on the team. Strong 7 man rotation with 3 so - so players. I have 1 or 2 that truly have the potential to go very far with basketball (1 is so far beyond all the other kids, i dont even know how to help him improve). This is not about playing time. You show up to practice and give me effort, you play.

Practices are fantastic. We run motion offense and I emphasize decision making and creativity. I don't run set plays. We move the ball in practice, find open lanes, rebound, play patient. Then game time comes. Every kid out there thinks he has to do it all and we are lucky to string 2 passes together before a shot. It feels like no one trusts anyone.

I love the competitive spirit and athleticism of this team. What I need are some ideas how to improve team chemistry. Keep in mind I have 2 1 hour practices a week. We don't need help shooting, passing, rebounding etc. I want to hear what the fifa has that may be fun/interesting/different to get these kids to believe in each other.

oh and before the criticism about coaching to win/it's all fun remarks, let me say I am the only coach in 4th grade that teaches man to man before zone as "experts" suggest and I teach sound fundamentals. Every other team plays/coaches to win, I.e., doesn't sub, plays strictly zone, runs up scores.

 

[Patriotsfatboy1]

Teach them the right way to set a screen. If they do it correctly, then they are going to be more open than the guy they are screening for.

If they are not passing to an open guy, pull them from the game.

Is this a recreational or travel/tryout team?

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

School team. We practice screens. They freeze up in games. Hard to screen against packed in zones.

I've yanked a few during games to prove the point. Doesn't seem to help. My son is a prime example of the problem. I've got no problem benching him and today he may have played 10 out of 24 minutes despite being the 2nd or 3rd best player we have. Feels like he has to do It all.

I think a lot of it comes from the fact we have had 3 teams in the past with 7 or 8 on each team. Now we have 2 teams of 10. 3 or 4 of these kids (my son included) have typically been 1st option or best player on previous teams. They are not adjusting well to the added help they have.

 

[Abraham]

The last four games - are the other teams more talented or are they playing different defenses the kids don't understand? Zone can be really hard to beat at a young age because you still think dribbling is essential, for example.

 

[ffjunk]

School team. We practice screens. They freeze up in games. Hard to screen against packed in zones.

I've yanked a few during games to prove the point. Doesn't seem to help. My son is a prime example of the problem. I've got no problem benching him and today he may have played 10 out of 24 minutes despite being the 2nd or 3rd best player we have. Feels like he has to do It all.

I think a lot of it comes from the fact we have had 3 teams in the past with 7 or 8 on each team. Now we have 2 teams of 10. 3 or 4 of these kids (my son included) have typically been 1st option or best player on previous teams. They are not adjusting well to the added help they have.

You are over thinking this. IT'S 4TH GRADE. Teach them some basic offensive plays for both man to man defense and zone. Shouldn't be too hard.

 

[Patriotsfatboy1]

If they are packing in the zone, I go high post with a 1-3-1 offense and teach them that there is 1 ball and 5 players. Moving without the ball is the most important skill to have. I find that type of zone offense forces the defense to honor the 10-12 footers and you can really attack the glass.

In triple threat on offense, dribbling is your 3rd option after shoot and pass. Have them learn this now.

Do you trap and press on defense? If not, you should. Great way to fast break and get good looks.

This is not a quick fix and you needs lots of patience with young kids like that.

 

[Politician Spock]

I feel like I am in danger of losing this team.

I lost my cell phone once. It sucks.

 

[Abraham]

Press and fast break is the best way to even any talent discrepancy. A good press will destroy any 4th grade team they play.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

Talent - wise we are one of the top 2 teams. One them has 2 phenomenal players that are hard to stop. Top to bottom no other team comes close.

We press some (zone and man to man). For the most part, teams can't handle it aside from a break or 2 where some of my lower rotation gets out of position.

for example, today. Opposing team only scored free throw after half time when I started pressing. I stress movement, ball reversal, little dribbling. When we get down, like today, everyone thinks they have to be the superstar. We average 25 points a game and lost 14-13. It was 9-6 at half. Movement stopped. No backcuts. No ball fakes. Triple threat disappeared. I want these kids to learn to depend on each other. Instead they are doing the opposite and freaking out on offense. I used all my timeouts just to tell them to settle down. Be calm. Use your screens, etc.

Poster above may be right. These kids seem to want structure. Almost like they would rather me call set plays instead of free movment. I am open to changing philosophy mid stream.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

If they are packing in the zone, I go high post with a 1-3-1 offense and teach them that there is 1 ball and 5 players. Moving without the ball is the most important skill to have. I find that type of zone offense forces the defense to honor the 10-12 footers and you can really attack the glass.

In triple threat on offense, dribbling is your 3rd option after shoot and pass. Have them learn this now.

Do you trap and press on defense? If not, you should. Great way to fast break and get good looks.

This is not a quick fix and you needs lots of patience with young kids like that.

I am not looking for a quick fix really. 1st place is out of reach for the regular season. We have one game left then the tourney. Playing for seeding at this point.

I need something to help this team understand that they ha e 4 teammates to help them when they are in the game. Like I said, they practice very well. They understand the system. They hear me say it all the time. It's games when all that goes out the window.

I need something different to prove to them that they need each other.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

Press and fast break is the best way to even any talent discrepancy. A good press will destroy any 4th grade team they play.

press is there for sure. Fast break is awesome. These other teams have figured that out and scouted us and get back on defense quick. When we get stopped and have to run half court offense is when it breaks down.

We scored 14 today. 2 free throws made and 10 off fast break/steals. One pretty play with ball movement and pass low for a basket.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

I'm almost thinking of doing that game where you fall back and the person behind you catches you. I swear it's something like that that this team needs. Almost a confidence or trust issue.

 

[Abraham]

Not splitting hairs (actually, maybe I am) but if the other team knows to get back on defense to stop your break then either your kids are really slow or the other team is settling for long shots.

I would seriously spend the whole practice doing 3 on 2 on 1 and outlet passes. Based on what you've written the press/break is working. Doubling down on that is a lot easier than putting in a structured offense. A lot.

 

[Ilov80s]

Press and fast break is the best way to even any talent discrepancy. A good press will destroy any 4th grade team they play.

Our school coaches really pushed the press and traps hard. We learned and practiced that more than anything. 4th-8th grade we just destroyed everyone. I remember erasing 15 point deficits in 3 minutes by just forcing TO after TO and getting easy layups. Some poor teams were barely able to get the ball past half court. It helped we were deep and talented, but if I coached that age again, I would play extremely aggressive.

 

[ffjunk]

Talent - wise we are one of the top 2 teams. One them has 2 phenomenal players that are hard to stop. Top to bottom no other team comes close.

We press some (zone and man to man). For the most part, teams can't handle it aside from a break or 2 where some of my lower rotation gets out of position.

for example, today. Opposing team only scored free throw after half time when I started pressing. I stress movement, ball reversal, little dribbling. When we get down, like today, everyone thinks they have to be the superstar. We average 25 points a game and lost 14-13. It was 9-6 at half. Movement stopped. No backcuts. No ball fakes. Triple threat disappeared. I want these kids to learn to depend on each other. Instead they are doing the opposite and freaking out on offense. I used all my timeouts just to tell them to settle down. Be calm. Use your screens, etc.

Poster above may be right. These kids seem to want structure. Almost like they would rather me call set plays instead of free movment. I am open to changing philosophy mid stream.

They don't want structure, they NEED it. Give them just a couple of very basic plays including the pick and roll. Let them name the play usually with their favorite college team name. They will remember the plays easier that way. Do drills with 1 on offense vs. 3 on defense and show them that they will fail. Then reverse it with 3 on offense and show them how passing it gives them an easier shot proving you can't do it alone.

You are also being too hard on yourself. Watch the kids after a loss. They are only 4th grade. Shortly after the games their only thoughts are if they are going to get to go to McDonalds, getting to play their video games or going to a friends house. Kids deal with losses much better than adults.

 

[Ilov80s]

Press and fast break is the best way to even any talent discrepancy. A good press will destroy any 4th grade team they play.

press is there for sure. Fast break is awesome. These other teams have figured that out and scouted us and get back on defense quick. When we get stopped and have to run half court offense is when it breaks down. We scored 14 today. 2 free throws made and 10 off fast break/steals. One pretty play with ball movement and pass low for a basket.

Do you have anyone that can do any effective work in the post? I know it's young for that but there are always a few kids that are abnormally large that can really change the game with their size.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

Ok. Kind of hard to reply to multiple posts.

my kids take losses hard. Of the 2 school teams, I got the talent and drive kids. The other coach got the "smart kids". Not unusual for my top 5 or 6 to be shedding tears after a loss.

We play Super aggressive. Too aggressive at times. I mean going for steals and getting beat. Other teams seem to get really easy baskets because of that so I have scaled down the press/denial and tried to focus on solid Halfcourt defense with pressure mixed in. The real difference is when I rotate my 3 border line players in. Hard to go all pressure when more than one of those is in.

I will add a play or 2. I like the 1-3-1 offensive suggestion.

I do have a post presence. 2 actually. 1 fouled out early today. He's a good help defender and got some tough calls against him.

 

[bushdocda]

Sounds like you might some plays to get force some collaboration out of the players.

 

[Ilov80s]

Agreed with the guys that said add a few basic plays. I think the problem at that age is the kids get too excited/panic during the game and the reaction is either to "hide" or to try to do too much. You might be giving them too much freedom to expect them to control their emotions and figure out how to develop an offensive flow. That ability will develop more when you start to run plays in games successfully. They will see what works and learn how to naturally make it apart of their game.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

Agreed with the guys that said add a few basic plays. I think the problem at that age is the kids get too excited/panic during the game and the reaction is either to "hide" or to try to do too much. You might be giving them too much freedom to expect them to control their emotions and figure out how to develop an offensive flow. That ability will develop more when you start to run plays in games successfully. They will see what works and learn how to naturally make it apart of their game.

that's this best way to describe e what's going on and makes sense. I'm going to see if I can get in a play or 2 this week.

 

[belljr]

so all your 9 year olds are having trouble focusing for a full game?

id make them run

 

[sho nuff]

You are dealing with 9 and 10 year olds.

Feel thankful they listen enough in practice to run any sort of set motion offense or anything other than a few screens here and there.

 

[Patriotsfatboy1]

I would give them a set and a few options. They will not get to more than the third option, so don't try to put in a full play.

 

[BlueDemon]

What you don't want to hear, but here goes it's 4th grade. I have coached youth ball for 20 years and have ref for another 10 . I can't stress how important fundamentals need to be coached. This is all you should work on , triple threat, head up, slide defense, v cuts, boxing out, etc. stop coaching to win , kids forget wins and loses, but in 5 years when these kids are impressing their high school coaches because someone took the time to develope them is so much more satisfying. If you need help read some books on teaching fundamental basketball, good luck

 

[ShaHBucks]

I need something different to prove to them that they need each other.

It's called the bench lol. One thing you can do in practice is to make the teams uneven numbers wise. Have the 5 on offense run the motion vs 6+ players with the extras trapping the ball. You have no choice but to move the ball to look for open shots.

Just a suggestion outside of the game, have them stop watching the NBA so much. If they are getting their game from someone like Melo for example then that's what they will think basketball is. Suggest some college games, or even the woman's games. They have the structure you want them to learn visually unlike the NBA outside of a handful of teams.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

Thanks for the ideas guys.

I think some may have misunderstood so let me clarify a bit (which I should have done in the beginning).

1 hour practice. We do:

10 minutes of hand coordination (finger taps, around the waist & head, Powe dribbles, triple threat with some pivoting mixed in) then layups. We then break into groups and one does rebounding and the other does dribbling/passing then switch. Lasts about 25 minutes. We then come together and work on defense and ball movement usually a game of keep away. This is about 15 minutes. Then free throws.

trust me. Fundamentals are covered. I need something fu /different to get them to play together.

 

[Abraham]

Have they ever done three on two on one? It's fun and incorporates dribbling , passing, defense, rebounding, running, and good shot selection.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

Have they ever done three on two on one? It's fun and incorporates dribbling , passing, defense, rebounding, running, and good shot selection.

that's one of those things I always mean to do and forget. Or get wrapped up in something else. I'll make sure to do that this week.

As referenced above, I am probably over thinking it.

 

[jomar]

Thanks for the ideas guys.

I think some may have misunderstood so let me clarify a bit (which I should have done in the beginning).

1 hour practice. We do:

10 minutes of hand coordination (finger taps, around the waist & head, Powe dribbles, triple threat with some pivoting mixed in) then layups. We then break into groups and one does rebounding and the other does dribbling/passing then switch. Lasts about 25 minutes. We then come together and work on defense and ball movement usually a game of keep away. This is about 15 minutes. Then free throws.

trust me. Fundamentals are covered. I need something fu /different to get them to play together.

Is this a travel team?

 

[Abraham]

Have they ever done three on two on one? It's fun and incorporates dribbling , passing, defense, rebounding, running, and good shot selection.

that's one of those things I always mean to do and forget. Or get wrapped up in something else. I'll make sure to do that this week.As referenced above, I am probably over thinking it.

That's a great drill for any age. Three man weave sucks because it doesn't have any real application.

2 on 2 is a great way to teach the pick n roll.

 

[Yo Mama]

Offenses with lots of passing/catching can be tough for some 4th graders. Do more on ball screens, particularly for your best player. Use simpler plays designed to get shots up and then rebound like crazy.

 

[Patriotsfatboy1]

Offenses with lots of passing/catching can be tough for some 4th graders. Do more on ball screens, particularly for your best player. Use simpler plays designed to get shots up and then rebound like crazy.

The problem is that he said that teams pack in the zone, which is very common at that age. Unless you can shoot the 3 to open things up, you have to move the ball. I like to force the defense to defend the high post and wing by bringing up some of the down low guys and then I attack the baseline.

There is a huge tendency for kids to stand around against a zone. You need to first force them to move by having a "play" where you tell each of them where their first 2 movements are going to be and so that they don't run into each other. Nothing complex. I would also recommend that you utilize flashes and cuts that can be used against both the zone and man defenses.

Two examples - when the ball goes down low, you have the 5 drop from the high post to the ball side block. That move and the associated sealing off of the defense is applicable against both man and zone.

When the ball goes low and the 5 is in the low block, the weak side wing can flash to the high post and get a really good look. I work on those cuts, passes and shots during drills. Your drills should be a precursor to putting in a play. Work on moves that are part of the offense and not just having everyone work on moves from spots where they will never get the ball.

 

[sho nuff]

What you don't want to hear, but here goes it's 4th grade. I have coached youth ball for 20 years and have ref for another 10 . I can't stress how important fundamentals need to be coached. This is all you should work on , triple threat, head up, slide defense, v cuts, boxing out, etc. stop coaching to win , kids forget wins and loses, but in 5 years when these kids are impressing their high school coaches because someone took the time to develope them is so much more satisfying. If you need help read some books on teaching fundamental basketball, good luck

I sort of help coach my son's team mostly 3rd and 4th graders.

I work with my son mostly on dribbling, passing, boxing out, and moving his feet on defense. Once he is picking up some of that I do work more on shooting form here and there. But its still at the point he needs to just get it to the basket any way he can.

 

[sho nuff]

Have they ever done three on two on one? It's fun and incorporates dribbling , passing, defense, rebounding, running, and good shot selection.

that's one of those things I always mean to do and forget. Or get wrapped up in something else. I'll make sure to do that this week.As referenced above, I am probably over thinking it.

That's a great drill for any age. Three man weave sucks because it doesn't have any real application.

2 on 2 is a great way to teach the pick n roll.

Yeah...kills me this year and last year in this league my son is in. The coaches are pretty much given practice formats for the year.

2nd practice both year they are trying to run 3 man weave.

These kids could barely dribble or pass. It goes terribly every single time.

 

[BigJim®]

I think this is a tough age to coach but you might consider whether you are causing your players to freeze up due to fear of being benched. I've seen a lot of coaching styles in my son's league (also 4th grade) and I think some coaches who yell a lot from the bench get less from their players. Maybe you should try using a normal rotation where all players have routine bench time, and coach them up while they are sitting on the bench on things you saw that they can improve upon, or make sure they notice good things you are seeing from on court players. I really like the coach on my son's team. First practice he said 'we're not running set plays, we're going to use fundementals and have fun.' My son's team played the animated coach type yesterday and it turned my stomach seeing him yell "what are you doing?!?" across the floor and similar remarks. You could just see the dejection and fear of screwing up written all over their faces.

One aside on that coach. I gave the coach a piece of my mind during the game (I was next to him running the scoreboard) and curious if anyone thinks I was out of line. My son's team was up by 8 points with 30 seconds to go and he yells onto the court for his players to "foul him! foul him!" thinking in his mind his team is way over on fouls and his team will get the ball back on a missed free throw. Clearly a decent strategy, but these kids are way too young to understand this nuance of the game, or how to follow a directive like that. As the best player on son's team is dribbling down the court as a fast pace, he gets pushed hard from behind and his momentum caused a head first spill out. Very lucky he wasn't hurt. I just thought that was a crazy risk to take seeking an impossible come back with 4th graders.

 

[Patriotsfatboy1]

I think this is a tough age to coach but you might consider whether you are causing your players to freeze up due to fear of being benched. I've seen a lot of coaching styles in my son's league (also 4th grade) and I think some coaches who yell a lot from the bench get less from their players. Maybe you should try using a normal rotation where all players have routine bench time, and coach them up while they are sitting on the bench on things you saw that they can improve upon, or make sure they notice good things you are seeing from on court players. I really like the coach on my son's team. First practice he said 'we're not running set plays, we're going to use fundementals and have fun.' My son's team played the animated coach type yesterday and it turned my stomach seeing him yell "what are you doing?!?" across the floor and similar remarks. You could just see the dejection and fear of screwing up written all over their faces.

One aside on that coach. I gave the coach a piece of my mind during the game (I was next to him running the scoreboard) and curious if anyone thinks I was out of line. My son's team was up by 8 points with 30 seconds to go and he yells onto the court for his players to "foul him! foul him!" thinking in his mind his team is way over on fouls and his team will get the ball back on a missed free throw. Clearly a decent strategy, but these kids are way too young to understand this nuance of the game, or how to follow a directive like that. As the best player on son's team is dribbling down the court as a fast pace, he gets pushed hard from behind and his momentum caused a head first spill out. Very lucky he wasn't hurt. I just thought that was a crazy risk to take seeking an impossible come back with 4th graders.

A couple of points.

1. Yelling is not a bad thing. Kids are far away and can't always here. WHAT you yell is important. It should not be demeaning and should keep things light.

2. When you bench a kid, it should not be to have them sit in the corner. It should be because they did not do as you asked and you sit them next to you and explain it again as to what is and what is not expected. Repetition is the key. It takes them about 1000 times of doing something before it becomes a habit.

3. If I am down by 8 with 30 seconds, I am fouling too. You should always be teaching the right way to do something even if not all of the kids get it. With that said, you have to teach them what it means when you tell them to foul. It is not a 2 handed push in the back and there is a teaching moment that can be had.

4. If you gave the coach a piece of your mind, I am not sure if you have all of the background. Maybe he was already going to explain to the kid that you can't do that. A coach does not control everything that a kid does, especially from season to season. I get new kids every season who know nothing and have never been taught the right way. I can't correct it before it happens, so there are times when a kid does something stupid and I need to address it AFTER the fact.

5. Games, practices, warm-ups and before games are all opportunities to teach kids things. They are sponges.

 

[BigJim®]

I think this is a tough age to coach but you might consider whether you are causing your players to freeze up due to fear of being benched. I've seen a lot of coaching styles in my son's league (also 4th grade) and I think some coaches who yell a lot from the bench get less from their players. Maybe you should try using a normal rotation where all players have routine bench time, and coach them up while they are sitting on the bench on things you saw that they can improve upon, or make sure they notice good things you are seeing from on court players. I really like the coach on my son's team. First practice he said 'we're not running set plays, we're going to use fundementals and have fun.' My son's team played the animated coach type yesterday and it turned my stomach seeing him yell "what are you doing?!?" across the floor and similar remarks. You could just see the dejection and fear of screwing up written all over their faces.

One aside on that coach. I gave the coach a piece of my mind during the game (I was next to him running the scoreboard) and curious if anyone thinks I was out of line. My son's team was up by 8 points with 30 seconds to go and he yells onto the court for his players to "foul him! foul him!" thinking in his mind his team is way over on fouls and his team will get the ball back on a missed free throw. Clearly a decent strategy, but these kids are way too young to understand this nuance of the game, or how to follow a directive like that. As the best player on son's team is dribbling down the court as a fast pace, he gets pushed hard from behind and his momentum caused a head first spill out. Very lucky he wasn't hurt. I just thought that was a crazy risk to take seeking an impossible come back with 4th graders.

3. If I am down by 8 with 30 seconds, I am fouling too. You should always be teaching the right way to do something even if not all of the kids get it. With that said, you have to teach them what it means when you tell them to foul. It is not a 2 handed push in the back and there is a teaching moment that can be had.

4. If you gave the coach a piece of your mind, I am not sure if you have all of the background. Maybe he was already going to explain to the kid that you can't do that. A coach does not control everything that a kid does, especially from season to season. I get new kids every season who know nothing and have never been taught the right way. I can't correct it before it happens, so there are times when a kid does something stupid and I need to address it AFTER the fact.

Ridiculous.

 

[Abraham]

What's ridiculous?

 

[BigJim®]

What's ridiculous?

1. Caring so much about 4th grade wins/losses that you put other 4th graders at risk of significant injury.

2. Expecting 4th graders to comprehend the foul directive/limits on the fly.

3. Saying a parent should have waited for this coach to use his teachable moment "Oh no Johnny, I didn't mean to assault that player when I was screaming at you to foul him... see here's how this situation works...."

 

[Patriotsfatboy1]

What's ridiculous?

1. Caring so much about 4th grade wins/losses that you put other 4th graders at risk of significant injury.

2. Expecting 4th graders to comprehend the foul directive/limits on the fly.

3. Saying a parent should have waited for this coach to use his teachable moment "Oh no Johnny, I didn't mean to assault that player when I was screaming at you to foul him... see here's how this situation works...."

1. How is asking a kid to foul putting a kid at risk of significant injury? I asked him to go for a steal and if he doesn't get it, make sure that he hits him across the arm enough so that the ref calls it. This is not about wins and losses. It is about teaching the kid the right way to play the game. Same as setting a screen. If the kid moves on the screen and throws his shoulder into the other kid, is that a matter of the coach caring too much about wins and losses?

2. How do you know that he did not tell his kids EXACTLY what he wanted them to do in the last time out, last practice or in a prior game?

3. While I know that you love your boy, when things like this happen, you want to blame someone. Here's a tip. If your kid plays sports, they might catch an elbow or be fouled hard on a play. Don't think that you can protect them from those things. If the coach had been clear in his instructions and it happened anyway, what exactly are you expecting to gain by yelling at the coach?

 

[ffjunk]

I think this is a tough age to coach but you might consider whether you are causing your players to freeze up due to fear of being benched. I've seen a lot of coaching styles in my son's league (also 4th grade) and I think some coaches who yell a lot from the bench get less from their players. Maybe you should try using a normal rotation where all players have routine bench time, and coach them up while they are sitting on the bench on things you saw that they can improve upon, or make sure they notice good things you are seeing from on court players. I really like the coach on my son's team. First practice he said 'we're not running set plays, we're going to use fundementals and have fun.' My son's team played the animated coach type yesterday and it turned my stomach seeing him yell "what are you doing?!?" across the floor and similar remarks. You could just see the dejection and fear of screwing up written all over their faces.

One aside on that coach. I gave the coach a piece of my mind during the game (I was next to him running the scoreboard) and curious if anyone thinks I was out of line. My son's team was up by 8 points with 30 seconds to go and he yells onto the court for his players to "foul him! foul him!" thinking in his mind his team is way over on fouls and his team will get the ball back on a missed free throw. Clearly a decent strategy, but these kids are way too young to understand this nuance of the game, or how to follow a directive like that. As the best player on son's team is dribbling down the court as a fast pace, he gets pushed hard from behind and his momentum caused a head first spill out. Very lucky he wasn't hurt. I just thought that was a crazy risk to take seeking an impossible come back with 4th graders.

Curious as to the score at that point. Usually 4th grade is low scoring. The example a few posts back the final score was 14-13. My point is if a team is only scoring 15-20 pts a game, they will not score 8 in 30 seconds. I don't know why coaches insist on fouling then. Maybe it's a never give up attitude but not sure how many 4th graders know why they are fouling.

 

[Patriotsfatboy1]

I think this is a tough age to coach but you might consider whether you are causing your players to freeze up due to fear of being benched. I've seen a lot of coaching styles in my son's league (also 4th grade) and I think some coaches who yell a lot from the bench get less from their players. Maybe you should try using a normal rotation where all players have routine bench time, and coach them up while they are sitting on the bench on things you saw that they can improve upon, or make sure they notice good things you are seeing from on court players. I really like the coach on my son's team. First practice he said 'we're not running set plays, we're going to use fundementals and have fun.' My son's team played the animated coach type yesterday and it turned my stomach seeing him yell "what are you doing?!?" across the floor and similar remarks. You could just see the dejection and fear of screwing up written all over their faces.

One aside on that coach. I gave the coach a piece of my mind during the game (I was next to him running the scoreboard) and curious if anyone thinks I was out of line. My son's team was up by 8 points with 30 seconds to go and he yells onto the court for his players to "foul him! foul him!" thinking in his mind his team is way over on fouls and his team will get the ball back on a missed free throw. Clearly a decent strategy, but these kids are way too young to understand this nuance of the game, or how to follow a directive like that. As the best player on son's team is dribbling down the court as a fast pace, he gets pushed hard from behind and his momentum caused a head first spill out. Very lucky he wasn't hurt. I just thought that was a crazy risk to take seeking an impossible come back with 4th graders.

Curious as to the score at that point. Usually 4th grade is low scoring. The example a few posts back the final score was 14-13. My point is if a team is only scoring 15-20 pts a game, they will not score 8 in 30 seconds. I don't know why coaches insist on fouling then. Maybe it's a never give up attitude but not sure how many 4th graders know why they are fouling.

I have had teams score more than 8 points even in a low scoring game in the last minute of a half or game. Helter skelter basketball.

Do you just give up? When I am down by 10 in the last 30 seconds, I am not fouling, but I can see doing it down 8. You also might not know when the pressing/fouling started. It could have started down 6 with over a minute and the team just scored to put them up 8.

Again, all of these situations are teaching moments. Are you really going to practice this situational stuff in that 1 hour practice that you get every once in a while? No, so you teach it now.

I would definitely love to find out how many of the people who get mad at coaches actually volunteer themselves. We get all of the same people doing all of the work and the rest of the people yell from the stands and 2nd guess.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

No wonder our kids are so screwed up. This whole thread is ridiculous. Sounds like none of these kids are having any fun.

 

[ffjunk]

I think this is a tough age to coach but you might consider whether you are causing your players to freeze up due to fear of being benched. I've seen a lot of coaching styles in my son's league (also 4th grade) and I think some coaches who yell a lot from the bench get less from their players. Maybe you should try using a normal rotation where all players have routine bench time, and coach them up while they are sitting on the bench on things you saw that they can improve upon, or make sure they notice good things you are seeing from on court players. I really like the coach on my son's team. First practice he said 'we're not running set plays, we're going to use fundementals and have fun.' My son's team played the animated coach type yesterday and it turned my stomach seeing him yell "what are you doing?!?" across the floor and similar remarks. You could just see the dejection and fear of screwing up written all over their faces.

One aside on that coach. I gave the coach a piece of my mind during the game (I was next to him running the scoreboard) and curious if anyone thinks I was out of line. My son's team was up by 8 points with 30 seconds to go and he yells onto the court for his players to "foul him! foul him!" thinking in his mind his team is way over on fouls and his team will get the ball back on a missed free throw. Clearly a decent strategy, but these kids are way too young to understand this nuance of the game, or how to follow a directive like that. As the best player on son's team is dribbling down the court as a fast pace, he gets pushed hard from behind and his momentum caused a head first spill out. Very lucky he wasn't hurt. I just thought that was a crazy risk to take seeking an impossible come back with 4th graders.

Curious as to the score at that point. Usually 4th grade is low scoring. The example a few posts back the final score was 14-13. My point is if a team is only scoring 15-20 pts a game, they will not score 8 in 30 seconds. I don't know why coaches insist on fouling then. Maybe it's a never give up attitude but not sure how many 4th graders know why they are fouling.

I have had teams score more than 8 points even in a low scoring game in the last minute of a half or game. Helter skelter basketball.

Do you just give up? When I am down by 10 in the last 30 seconds, I am not fouling, but I can see doing it down 8. You also might not know when the pressing/fouling started. It could have started down 6 with over a minute and the team just scored to put them up 8.

Again, all of these situations are teaching moments. Are you really going to practice this situational stuff in that 1 hour practice that you get every once in a while? No, so you teach it now.

I would definitely love to find out how many of the people who get mad at coaches actually volunteer themselves. We get all of the same people doing all of the work and the rest of the people yell from the stands and 2nd guess.

Going off his quote so I assume that's when it started. His issue is the foul was a push from behind causing the kid to go sprawling head first. That should be considered flagrant and not going for th eball resulting in the team getting the ball back.

But you are missing the point. It's 4th grade basketball. I know your teams, which score 8 points in 30 seconds, have all D1 players on them and are going to the NBA. Most of the kids are just there to have fun. Let them.

 

[sho nuff]

I would agree with most kids at 4th grade...fouling at that point won't likely be understood the way we undestand it.

Its one thing if this a travel type team and these kids are all pretty good.

 

[Patriotsfatboy1]

I think this is a tough age to coach but you might consider whether you are causing your players to freeze up due to fear of being benched. I've seen a lot of coaching styles in my son's league (also 4th grade) and I think some coaches who yell a lot from the bench get less from their players. Maybe you should try using a normal rotation where all players have routine bench time, and coach them up while they are sitting on the bench on things you saw that they can improve upon, or make sure they notice good things you are seeing from on court players. I really like the coach on my son's team. First practice he said 'we're not running set plays, we're going to use fundementals and have fun.' My son's team played the animated coach type yesterday and it turned my stomach seeing him yell "what are you doing?!?" across the floor and similar remarks. You could just see the dejection and fear of screwing up written all over their faces.

One aside on that coach. I gave the coach a piece of my mind during the game (I was next to him running the scoreboard) and curious if anyone thinks I was out of line. My son's team was up by 8 points with 30 seconds to go and he yells onto the court for his players to "foul him! foul him!" thinking in his mind his team is way over on fouls and his team will get the ball back on a missed free throw. Clearly a decent strategy, but these kids are way too young to understand this nuance of the game, or how to follow a directive like that. As the best player on son's team is dribbling down the court as a fast pace, he gets pushed hard from behind and his momentum caused a head first spill out. Very lucky he wasn't hurt. I just thought that was a crazy risk to take seeking an impossible come back with 4th graders.

Curious as to the score at that point. Usually 4th grade is low scoring. The example a few posts back the final score was 14-13. My point is if a team is only scoring 15-20 pts a game, they will not score 8 in 30 seconds. I don't know why coaches insist on fouling then. Maybe it's a never give up attitude but not sure how many 4th graders know why they are fouling.

I have had teams score more than 8 points even in a low scoring game in the last minute of a half or game. Helter skelter basketball.

Do you just give up? When I am down by 10 in the last 30 seconds, I am not fouling, but I can see doing it down 8. You also might not know when the pressing/fouling started. It could have started down 6 with over a minute and the team just scored to put them up 8.

Again, all of these situations are teaching moments. Are you really going to practice this situational stuff in that 1 hour practice that you get every once in a while? No, so you teach it now.

I would definitely love to find out how many of the people who get mad at coaches actually volunteer themselves. We get all of the same people doing all of the work and the rest of the people yell from the stands and 2nd guess.

Going off his quote so I assume that's when it started. His issue is the foul was a push from behind causing the kid to go sprawling head first. That should be considered flagrant and not going for th eball resulting in the team getting the ball back.

But you are missing the point. It's 4th grade basketball. I know your teams, which score 8 points in 30 seconds, have all D1 players on them and are going to the NBA. Most of the kids are just there to have fun. Let them.

You are going off of the parent of the kid who got fouled. The referees call the game, the coaches coach. I agree that, if the kid gave him a 2 hander in the back, it should be flagrant foul (2 shots and ball). If it were my kid who fouled on that, I would have pulled him from the game and explained it to him. Either way, the parent has no business giving the coach crap until he says whether it is dealt with.

My kids are not great players at all. It doesn't mean that they can't steal the ball and make a layup.

As far as having fun, where does it say that you are either competitive or you want to have fun. Not sure about your kids, but even my crappy players (my kid is one of those) have more fun when they are playing well. When what they have worked on in practice is being used successfully in the game.

Just throwing the ball out there and giving everyone trophies is fine if you don't want them to learn a damn thing. All of the people asking for that will be the same ones who say that their coach doesn't teach them anything.

 

[ffjunk]

I think this is a tough age to coach but you might consider whether you are causing your players to freeze up due to fear of being benched. I've seen a lot of coaching styles in my son's league (also 4th grade) and I think some coaches who yell a lot from the bench get less from their players. Maybe you should try using a normal rotation where all players have routine bench time, and coach them up while they are sitting on the bench on things you saw that they can improve upon, or make sure they notice good things you are seeing from on court players. I really like the coach on my son's team. First practice he said 'we're not running set plays, we're going to use fundementals and have fun.' My son's team played the animated coach type yesterday and it turned my stomach seeing him yell "what are you doing?!?" across the floor and similar remarks. You could just see the dejection and fear of screwing up written all over their faces.

One aside on that coach. I gave the coach a piece of my mind during the game (I was next to him running the scoreboard) and curious if anyone thinks I was out of line. My son's team was up by 8 points with 30 seconds to go and he yells onto the court for his players to "foul him! foul him!" thinking in his mind his team is way over on fouls and his team will get the ball back on a missed free throw. Clearly a decent strategy, but these kids are way too young to understand this nuance of the game, or how to follow a directive like that. As the best player on son's team is dribbling down the court as a fast pace, he gets pushed hard from behind and his momentum caused a head first spill out. Very lucky he wasn't hurt. I just thought that was a crazy risk to take seeking an impossible come back with 4th graders.

Curious as to the score at that point. Usually 4th grade is low scoring. The example a few posts back the final score was 14-13. My point is if a team is only scoring 15-20 pts a game, they will not score 8 in 30 seconds. I don't know why coaches insist on fouling then. Maybe it's a never give up attitude but not sure how many 4th graders know why they are fouling.

I have had teams score more than 8 points even in a low scoring game in the last minute of a half or game. Helter skelter basketball.

Do you just give up? When I am down by 10 in the last 30 seconds, I am not fouling, but I can see doing it down 8. You also might not know when the pressing/fouling started. It could have started down 6 with over a minute and the team just scored to put them up 8.

Again, all of these situations are teaching moments. Are you really going to practice this situational stuff in that 1 hour practice that you get every once in a while? No, so you teach it now.

I would definitely love to find out how many of the people who get mad at coaches actually volunteer themselves. We get all of the same people doing all of the work and the rest of the people yell from the stands and 2nd guess.

Going off his quote so I assume that's when it started. His issue is the foul was a push from behind causing the kid to go sprawling head first. That should be considered flagrant and not going for th eball resulting in the team getting the ball back.

But you are missing the point. It's 4th grade basketball. I know your teams, which score 8 points in 30 seconds, have all D1 players on them and are going to the NBA. Most of the kids are just there to have fun. Let them.

You are going off of the parent of the kid who got fouled. The referees call the game, the coaches coach. I agree that, if the kid gave him a 2 hander in the back, it should be flagrant foul (2 shots and ball). If it were my kid who fouled on that, I would have pulled him from the game and explained it to him. Either way, the parent has no business giving the coach crap until he says whether it is dealt with.

My kids are not great players at all. It doesn't mean that they can't steal the ball and make a layup.

As far as having fun, where does it say that you are either competitive or you want to have fun. Not sure about your kids, but even my crappy players (my kid is one of those) have more fun when they are playing well. When what they have worked on in practice is being used successfully in the game.

Just throwing the ball out there and giving everyone trophies is fine if you don't want them to learn a damn thing. All of the people asking for that will be the same ones who say that their coach doesn't teach them anything.

The bold line above is my point. Most 4th grade kids don't know why they are fouling or how to foul. Again it's 4th grade.

Not saying everyone should get trophies and smile and all the other BS. Parents should know what kind of league they are putting their kids in. Travel vs town teams are extremely different. I also think that's part of the problem these days with AAU teams popping up all over. Everyone thinks their kid is going pro. 4th grade is supposed to be about teaching basketball and having fun. Period.

 

[Pipes]

Real simple half court play to run is put your 2 & 3 in each corner by the three point line. Your 4 between the right elbow and 3 point line and your 5 in the same spot on the left. Make sure these 2 guys can shoot. Have one of these guys set a ball screen on the 1's guy as he drives to the basket. The first time you do this you'll likely free him up for a layup or short jumper. The second time likely both defenders collapse on the 1 and him can kick it back to the screener for an elbow jumper. Once you run that a few times then and screeners roll to the hoop instead of spotting up. Also out of that same formation have the 5 go down to the corner and set a screen on the 3s guy. The 3 then comes up and picks the 1s defender. Typically both defenders follow the 3 and the 5 is open for a short jumper. The 1 can also take it to the hoop or kick it back to the 3 for a jumper. The timing is a little tougher on this one.

I coach 6 the graders and have had a lot of success with this though we strictly play and face man.

 

[Patriotsfatboy1]

I think this is a tough age to coach but you might consider whether you are causing your players to freeze up due to fear of being benched. I've seen a lot of coaching styles in my son's league (also 4th grade) and I think some coaches who yell a lot from the bench get less from their players. Maybe you should try using a normal rotation where all players have routine bench time, and coach them up while they are sitting on the bench on things you saw that they can improve upon, or make sure they notice good things you are seeing from on court players. I really like the coach on my son's team. First practice he said 'we're not running set plays, we're going to use fundementals and have fun.' My son's team played the animated coach type yesterday and it turned my stomach seeing him yell "what are you doing?!?" across the floor and similar remarks. You could just see the dejection and fear of screwing up written all over their faces.

One aside on that coach. I gave the coach a piece of my mind during the game (I was next to him running the scoreboard) and curious if anyone thinks I was out of line. My son's team was up by 8 points with 30 seconds to go and he yells onto the court for his players to "foul him! foul him!" thinking in his mind his team is way over on fouls and his team will get the ball back on a missed free throw. Clearly a decent strategy, but these kids are way too young to understand this nuance of the game, or how to follow a directive like that. As the best player on son's team is dribbling down the court as a fast pace, he gets pushed hard from behind and his momentum caused a head first spill out. Very lucky he wasn't hurt. I just thought that was a crazy risk to take seeking an impossible come back with 4th graders.

Curious as to the score at that point. Usually 4th grade is low scoring. The example a few posts back the final score was 14-13. My point is if a team is only scoring 15-20 pts a game, they will not score 8 in 30 seconds. I don't know why coaches insist on fouling then. Maybe it's a never give up attitude but not sure how many 4th graders know why they are fouling.

I have had teams score more than 8 points even in a low scoring game in the last minute of a half or game. Helter skelter basketball.

Do you just give up? When I am down by 10 in the last 30 seconds, I am not fouling, but I can see doing it down 8. You also might not know when the pressing/fouling started. It could have started down 6 with over a minute and the team just scored to put them up 8.

Again, all of these situations are teaching moments. Are you really going to practice this situational stuff in that 1 hour practice that you get every once in a while? No, so you teach it now.

I would definitely love to find out how many of the people who get mad at coaches actually volunteer themselves. We get all of the same people doing all of the work and the rest of the people yell from the stands and 2nd guess.

Going off his quote so I assume that's when it started. His issue is the foul was a push from behind causing the kid to go sprawling head first. That should be considered flagrant and not going for th eball resulting in the team getting the ball back.

But you are missing the point. It's 4th grade basketball. I know your teams, which score 8 points in 30 seconds, have all D1 players on them and are going to the NBA. Most of the kids are just there to have fun. Let them.

You are going off of the parent of the kid who got fouled. The referees call the game, the coaches coach. I agree that, if the kid gave him a 2 hander in the back, it should be flagrant foul (2 shots and ball). If it were my kid who fouled on that, I would have pulled him from the game and explained it to him. Either way, the parent has no business giving the coach crap until he says whether it is dealt with.

My kids are not great players at all. It doesn't mean that they can't steal the ball and make a layup.

As far as having fun, where does it say that you are either competitive or you want to have fun. Not sure about your kids, but even my crappy players (my kid is one of those) have more fun when they are playing well. When what they have worked on in practice is being used successfully in the game.

Just throwing the ball out there and giving everyone trophies is fine if you don't want them to learn a damn thing. All of the people asking for that will be the same ones who say that their coach doesn't teach them anything.

The bold line above is my point. Most 4th grade kids don't know why they are fouling or how to foul. Again it's 4th grade.

Not saying everyone should get trophies and smile and all the other BS. Parents should know what kind of league they are putting their kids in. Travel vs town teams are extremely different. I also think that's part of the problem these days with AAU teams popping up all over. Everyone thinks their kid is going pro. 4th grade is supposed to be about teaching basketball and having fun. Period.

I agree that things are too competitive in many situations. For the first part, at what point do they learn why they are fouling and how to foul correctly? I have had some kids who could do it at 4th grade and others who can't do it in 10th.

I agree that 4th grade should be about teaching basketball and having fun. The question is how much you can realistically teach them and what they can actually do.

Bottom line is if you don't agree with how it is done, volunteer your time and do it the "right" way.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I coach my son's 5th grade basketball team and lots of advice in this thread is useless to me because of the league rules.

Press? Nope. Illegal.

Zone? Nope Illegal.

Bench them? Ha, only at the halfway point of each qtr and at qtr break and only if he has met the minimum playing time rule, which is half the game. Translation, you cant bench anybody when you have 10 people on your team. They rotate in and out no matter what.

I cant even stand up during the game due to the "seat belt rule".

In a lot of ways I am happy for these rules. They force me to do what every 4th-5th grade coach should do. Focus on player development. Skip the gimmicky plays. Rotate people into multiple positions and teach all players all the skills. Kids change so much during these years. My worst player last year is my 2nd best player this year.