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I'll repeat: they added the underrated (in light of the last 1.5 seasons) Antonio Bryant and Battle is emerging. Johnson is getting healthy and a very, very good TE will be available with their 2nd pick.VD is not a foregone conclusion in this scenario. They'd be crazy to not take that offer.
Both were #1 picks.....both struggled mightily their rookie year...both showed improvement at the end of their rookie year.Biggest difference I see (outside of their last names
) is the quality of players around them. While Eli had Amani Toomer, Tiki Barber, Jeremy Shockey, and later Plaxico Burress.........Alex Smith had Jason McAddley, Arnaz Battle, Brandon Lloyd, Hicks/Barlow/Gore and Terry Jones. Not one of those players could have started on the Giants.
Sure, if he wants to get fired...Broncos get a better WR AND the #5 pick?
I'd have no problem with that trade if the Packers don't believe they'll be able to land a sure-fire stud with the fifth pick (and unless they take Vernon Davis they probably won't get one although I do like Hawk). I'm not a big Lelie fan by any stretch and while he's not as good as Walker obviously he's a HUGE upgrade over Ferguson and he's more talented IMO than Gardner as well. More importantly, adding a second first-round pick enables the Packers to further address the massive talent issues that confront the team by adding another top-level player on the first day.
22-32 (2005)22 Mark Clayton Ravens WR Oklahoma23 Fabian Washington Raiders DB Nebraska24 Aaron Rodgers Packers QB California25 Jason Campbell Redskins QB Auburn26 Chris Spencer Seahawks C Mississippi27 Roddy White Falcons WR Alabama-Birmingham28 Luis Castillo Chargers DT Northwestern29 Marlin Jackson Colts DB Michigan30 Heath Miller Steelers TE Virginia31 Mike Patterson Eagles DT USC32 Logan Mankins Patriots G Fresno State22-32 (2004)22 J.P. Losman Bills QB Tulane23 Marcus Tubbs Seahawks DT Texas24 Steven Jackson Rams RB Oregon State25 Ahmad Carroll Packers DB Arkansas26 Chris Perry Bengals RB Michigan27 Jason Babin Texans DE Western Michigan28 Chris Gamble Panthers DB Ohio State29 Michael Jenkins Falcons WR Ohio State30 Kevin Jones Lions RB Virginia Tech31 Rashaun Woods 49ers WR Oklahoma State32 Ben Watson Patriots TE Georgia22-32 (2003)22 Rex Grossman Bears QB Florida23 Willis McGahee Bills RB Miami (FL)24 Dallas Clark Colts TE Iowa25 William Joseph Giants DT Miami (FL)26 Kwame Harris 49ers T Stanford27 Larry Johnson Chiefs RB Penn State28 Andre Woolfolk Titans DB Oklahoma29 Nick Barnett Packers LB Oregon State30 Sammy Davis Chargers DB Texas A&M31 Nnamdi Asomugha Raiders DB California32 Tyler Brayton Raiders DE Colorado
Both were #1 picks.....both struggled mightily their rookie year...both showed improvement at the end of their rookie year.Biggest difference I see (outside of their last names
So what I think you meant to say is that Alex Smith's supporting cast has a long way to go to be decent.
Alex certainly didn't look great, but he had a lot of help. Always playing catch up, no real quality starters anywhere on offense to take the pressure off, a below average o-line coupled with a bottom ranked D spells disaster for any QB. Do you really think that any QB would have had success in that situation? The real question is what Alex would have done with the Giants offensive personnel.
In 2005, San Francisco's offense and defense were both rated #30 of 32 in points allowed, and #32 of 32 in yardage allowed. Their defense allowed 800 more passing yards than the #31 team in that category, despite the fact that the Niners were behind in every game. So while the offense was certainly putrid, the defense was just as bad. I think two mid-first-round picks are a lot more likely to help this team than a tight end, especially when they have a tight end who was #4 in receiving yardage in 2004, and then injured in 2005.
Not to mention they lost their best defender in the off-season... Someone who could've come back and contributed quite a bit this year.On offense, they've at least held serve.
Now you're thinking like a guy trying to build a contender.
Correct me if I'm wrong too, but isn't EJ more of a pass first option TE? I think if they did this trade it'd be in their best interest to either draft Pope with one of the two aquired picks and address the defense with the other, if they want a pass catching TE first, or take two defenders in the first round and give a look towards someone like Anthony Fasano (homer pick) who is more of a jack-of-all-trades TE to compliment someone like EJ on the other side of the formation.Hes more of a get injured first TE. The 49ers shouldnt make any choices based on his presence on the team.
Michael Huff or Winston Justice. AJ Hawk or Mario Williams if they fall.
Since when is that a fact? He'll never stay healthy for an entire 16 game season so he shouldn't be considered for SF's long-term plans. As far as a TE turning a team around - does Antonio Gates ring a bell? That's how good Davis looks and he would be the go-to receiver that Smith needs. I'm not totally against the thought of the trade since the 49ers need help all over the field, but I wouldn't do it because Davis doesn't look like an impact player.Now you're thinking like a guy trying to build a contender.
Hes more of a get injured first TE. The 49ers shouldnt make any choices based on his presence on the team.
If the Niners don't take Vernon Davis at #6, they're not going to narrow their sights on a TE later in the 1st or even in the 2nd; they'll draft BPA because they have needs EVERYWHERE. I think the argument becomes is Davis (or any other player at #6) enough of a stud to turn down 2 later 1st round picks and stay at #6. Some really good arguments made on both sides. Doc Oc said the 49ers would take "Michael Huff or Winston Justice. AJ Hawk or Mario Williams if they fall." Of those guys, the only one that MIGHT make me turn down #15 and #22 would be Mario. In fact, if I'm Nolan and this Denver offer comes available, the only guys I stand pat and consider taking with #6 are Bush, Mario, and Davis. If they're gone, I'm taking the trade.
When was I talking about EJ specifically? I wasn't. I don't see why you felt the need to bold one sentence of a big paragraph and take issue with my agreeing with his statements in general because of the sentence.But to touch on EJ... When healthy, he can certainly be a difference maker. The 9ers can afford to take a calculated risk there. At least they can look at him and say "we have an xx% chance of getting good production from our TE spot this year". They can't do that at several other positions and need to build there. I think they should've taken a calculated risk at QB with Rattay last year and passed on Alex Smith as well.
I singled that out since it was the one part I didn't agree with.I understand the need to make a calculated risk but EJ isn't worth it IMO. He's just not a guy whose body can handle the abuse of the NFL. Some guys are like that and he's not someone they can rely on.
We can go back a few thread where we already talked about this.The fact the 49ers led the NFL in 3 and outs, 2nd worst in TOP, and often left the D in horrible position--and the injury bug that depleted the secondary--hurt the D stats.
And EJ--he's missed 2 of the last 3 years. GReat player, but I just don't think you can count on him. If he's back, count it as a bonus. Also, he is in the last year of his contract, FWIW.VD = playmaker, a guy DC's will have to scheme for. You see any other guys on the offense teams have to worry about?
You were wrong the last time we talked about it, too.The Niners D gave up 7.69 yards per passing attempt. Only one other team was even over 7.0 ypa. Yards per attempt has nothing to do with time of posession; in fact, you would expect low time of posession to go along with bad defensive rushing stats, not bad defensive passing stats.
This is in most cases alot WORSE and alot LONGER of a problem than an ACL.
well, sort of..another part of it,and what I meant about the last names, is that Archie Manning played for a number of years in the NFL, and from a very early age, both Peyton and Eli were taught things from him, a pro...I don't know when Alex Smith got interested in football, but I doubt he was being groomed to be an NFL player since birth like both Manning's were. it was and has been ingrained in their heads that they will be pro QB's some day..thats my point about the last name: they both had a Archie Manning to learn from,at a very early age..Smith didn't have that kind of tutoring..Lofa Tatupu had it..Chris Simms had it..I definitely think there is an advantage to growing up as the son of an NFL player, in terms of football knowledge..it's like the difference between going to Harvard or attending Morris Community College here in NJ..Both were #1 picks.....both struggled mightily their rookie year...both showed improvement at the end of their rookie year.Biggest difference I see (outside of their last names
So what I think you meant to say is that Alex Smith's supporting cast has a long way to go to be decent.
As Andy has said,the supporting cast in SF isn't all that bad,actually! the WR's are
