nerangers
Footballguy
What will you give me for him then???The only thing he will probably be running from this year is the law.
isgruntledVickOwner:
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Vick Indicted ! ? (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Stealthycat
- Start date
isgruntledVickOwner:
LHUCKS
Footballguy
If these allegations are accurate I think he's a disgrace...not sure where you pulled that out of your ### from.
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Well for me this is a no win situation for the NFL.
1. If they suspend Mike Vick this is his 1st time being in trouble with the Law. Plus there is a history on Vicks side. The Jamal Lewis case he was not suspended until after he was convicted on Fed Charges. So the NFL already has a history of how they have handled the situation in the past. And that was not to do anything till a person was convicted. So far no one has tested the power of Roger Goodell so we do not really know if what he is trying to do will really stand on a appeal. And I am willing to bet that Vick will appeal if he is suspended. And for everyone saying the NFLPA would not stand by Vick they were going to stand by Pacman?
2. If they don't suspend Mike Vick, then what it "could" open the door for Pacman/Henry/Tank to come back and say what Vick did was far worse than anything that they have done. I am not sure if they can still appeal or if this would open the door for it? Plus lets face it if Mike Vick does play, how do you think Fans will treat him and such?
1. If they suspend Mike Vick this is his 1st time being in trouble with the Law. Plus there is a history on Vicks side. The Jamal Lewis case he was not suspended until after he was convicted on Fed Charges. So the NFL already has a history of how they have handled the situation in the past. And that was not to do anything till a person was convicted. So far no one has tested the power of Roger Goodell so we do not really know if what he is trying to do will really stand on a appeal. And I am willing to bet that Vick will appeal if he is suspended. And for everyone saying the NFLPA would not stand by Vick they were going to stand by Pacman?
2. If they don't suspend Mike Vick, then what it "could" open the door for Pacman/Henry/Tank to come back and say what Vick did was far worse than anything that they have done. I am not sure if they can still appeal or if this would open the door for it? Plus lets face it if Mike Vick does play, how do you think Fans will treat him and such?
The plan to bring in Brian Brohm continues. With Joey H running the show in 2007, they won;t have to trade up too far to get Brohm in the 2008 draft.
too bad for Vick there is a new sheriff running the NFL
Wow. This is the biggest load of chickenpoop I've read in a long while. For dozens of posts you defended Vick causing major flame wars and personally forcing threads to be locked. Now you're claiming that you were just kidding?!?!?!Were you also kidding about banning yourself from FBG if you were wrong, because I was looking forward to that.
twistd
Footballguy
One of the biggest problems here is perception. Vick would have been better off getting caught beating up homeless guys than being connected with dog fighting. People imagine their family dog being viciously mauled, and killed by a pit bull. If you see video footage of dog fighting it is brutal. This does nothing good for the image of the NFL to have one of their star players connected with it. I'm very curious to see what Goodell does about this.
Sorry but that applies to criminal court.Vick has already done enough to bring much shame on the league which will justify a suspension.He's toast in the NFL.
BoltzNBrew
Footballguy
east2west
Footballguy
It's just plain hard for me to believe that Vick was in no way involved in this dog fighting, if only it was to place bets. He has the dog kennel, and it was his house for crying out loud. No matter if you visit the place once a year, are you telling me he didn’t know what was happening? Not to mention the eye witness accounts of him dropping bets and watching the fights.
It's really just mind boggling that a man with so much money and fame would be involved with such craziness. If I had the kind of money he has I believe I could find tons of other (legal) activities to enjoy, and heck if you like betting, then go to Vegas.
It's really just mind boggling that a man with so much money and fame would be involved with such craziness. If I had the kind of money he has I believe I could find tons of other (legal) activities to enjoy, and heck if you like betting, then go to Vegas.
hephner
Footballguy
I know this is a long thread, but I posted the majority of this article way back on page 1, post #49 .Still doesn't seem very cut and dry. As the article stated, and Yudkin expounded upon, this clause is inserted in every player contract, but it doesn't really define "conduct reasonably judged by Club to adversely affect or reflect on Club". This could be quite a mess between the NFL commissioner's office, the Falcons, and the NFLPA. Really difficult to predict if and how the Falcons could recoup any of the cap hit or bonus.
hephner
Footballguy
I don't think it's weak. Conspiracy to transport dogs used in dog-fighting carries the same penalty as transporting dogs used in dog-fighting. There's no federal crime against just dog-fighting, which is why the transporting bit is in there. That's what makes it federal.This is a real charge.
Famous athletes aren't a protected class, so that wouldn't be all that legally significant. He'd be better off claiming he's receiving unfair treatment because he's a male, or because he's black, or something along those lines.
Dirty Weasel
Footballguy
I know I ranted earlier in this post, but let me explain why Vick has no chance of playing in 2007. There have been reports that his large contract may be a reason why ATL keeps him and lets him play. ATL simply can't afford to keep him, for ATL will lose well over $22M in other areas by letting him remain. People mention Jamal Lewis as someone who played a season while waiting to be convicted. Update folks - drugs are an "accepted" form of illegal activity in the court of public opinion. Had Jamal been accused of selling those same drugs to kindergarten kids, do you think he would've played the season? There are some crimes that are just so bad in people's minds, that the best Public Relations people in the world can't defend. Cruelty to animals is one of them, a few notches below child molestation. Think of it this way - if Vick was previously an owner of a daycare, then the feds had discovered a kiddie snuff ring at Vick's property, would anyone be saying, "innocent until proven guilty"?
There are just some crimes that people are guilty until proven innocent. This is one of them.
There are just some crimes that people are guilty until proven innocent. This is one of them.
What labor law would the NFL be violating?Vick would be suspended under the terms of the collective bargaining agreement. Under that agreement, Goodell can suspend a player if there is evidence that the player engaged in conduct detrimental to the public confidence in the game of professional football. Goodell just has to give the player a chance to appeal from the suspension. If Vick can't show he's innocent on his appeal, that's his tough luck. Even if he's later acquitted in court.Labor law...one of the biggest fields of law in the U.S.Please explain what liability issues they have.
phthalatemagic
Footballguy
Something tells me they won't have the same lawyer.
chris1969
Footballguy
I'm really waiting for a lawyer to step in here, but it sounds like most people don't understand that the worst is yet to come. Local DA's always indict on the worst charge and add as many charges as they can hoping to plea bargain. Fed's tend to only indict on the charge that they know they can win and take advantage of the long delay to trial to indict on more charges. Even if this charge is the only thing that they can get Vick on, it will be applied per dog, so I see a minimum of 20 years in jail, probably closer to 60 years in jail. As far as Goodell goes, he cares more about the league image more than who's guilty and who's not guilty. I don't see him going out of his way to give a break to a self-described team leader that has flipped off the fans, gave a woman an STD under an alias and got his pot-bottle discovered by underpaid airport screeners. When he says he has no idea what happens on his property when he's paying all the bills, I don't think Goodell is going to do the same thing as Atlanta has been doing and say "Gee Mike, we love you anyway, even if it screws the team and league image because even though you cant throw worth a crap you can run really good and we like selling seats on smoke and mirrors and blaming all your problems on a bad supporting cast.."
ramsfan
Footballguy
Not good for Ron,
his name is all over this indictment.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...17072vick1.html
his name is all over this indictment.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...17072vick1.html
CA_7
Footballguy
I believe that article refers to actions on the field of play only.I posted this earlier:
http://www.nflpa.org/RulesAndRegs/ConductPolicy.aspx
In summary, at this point Vick is subject to counseling/evaluation by the league and players can only be suspended for the following:
- Failure to cooperate with said evaluation
- Convicted or admitting to criminal activity
- Failure to report an arrest or criminal charge (one of the things that got Pacman suspended)
- Violent activity in the workplace
None of these apply to Vick (yet). Therefore the league will not suspend him until one of them happens.
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Slingblade
Footballguy
I can't wait to see this scumbag behind bars.
I think 5 years at minimum is fair.
I think 5 years at minimum is fair.
Yeah, I'm kinda surprised at all the outrage people show Vick compared to other stuff that goes in the world. For example, recently there was the absolute, worst nightmare of a gang rape that occured in Florida:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070707/ap_on_...PDk95eWwdlH2ocA
The perps poured various household cleansers into their eyes afterwards. Yet not much press about it. Perhaps because they are poor. Perhaps because it was so disturbing. Yet people get much more outraged over animals.
BTW, I think child molestation is as bad as it gets and animal cruelty is no where near as bad.
Slingblade
Footballguy
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
What you want? A cookie?
BigJim®
Footballguy
ESPN couldn't be bigger boobs on this story. One hour after Clayton published that Goodell "must" wait to suspend Vick and that the Falcon's standing by Vick is the short term solution, I see Len Pasquarelli is now reporting that Arthur Blank is facing a "test of loyalty" over this situation. Shameless. Jason Cole of yahoo! sports has now reported that Goodell will suspend Vick. I guess we'll just have to hold our breaths and see which is real reporting.
Pygmy Marmoset
Footballguy
I love the title of this thread.
Holy crap!?!? Vick was indicted?!?! Who saw this coming?!?!?!?!?!?!
Holy crap!?!? Vick was indicted?!?! Who saw this coming?!?!?!?!?!?!
chris1969
Footballguy
I agree but the personalities of the scumbags are pretty much the same.
but this is a FF forum why would you post something like this and think we would not care about these people? I have no idea why this post was made.
Hold on . . .You are right that the section of the CBA I linked to covers only conduct on the field, and that there is a separate policy for off-field conduct.
But the page at NFLPA.org is not the policy. It appears to be only a summary of it. As you can see from this page (the errata sheet), the actual policy is many pages, and contains the phrase "final disciplinary action," which the NFLPA.org page does not.
I am trying to get the actual policy . . .
Scratch that. That is the policy. I got it using my super-secret media contacts in PDF form (attached), and it is the same. (I didn't read the whole title of the errata sheet very carefully.)
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NoFBinLA
Moderator
I would say.... both.The problem is (and I have no issue with him cleaning up the league, especially given some of the utter ######ed moves the past year) he needs to defend his policy against all comers. And frankly, it's harder to do that when the scale slides. It's fine to say don't violate the conduct policy - but what does that mean? Did Chambers violate the policy with his arrest (allowing for the fact he tested negative, he was still arrested)? And how do you scale the violation vs punishment?I'm not saying it should be set in stone, nor am I saying the job isn't tough. But it would be easier if there were less than vague parameters.And it all comes down to how he reacts to Vick. He was swift in several earlier cases. There were differences to be sure. But the Commish's office was pretty quick to react.While Vick doesn't have the rap sheet PacMan and the others have, a Fed indictment is pretty friggin serious and is a serious black eye to the league. Even if he didn't know (yes I said that with a straight face) dogfighting went on there, he was warned he would be held accountable by the Sheriff. So even if he's innocent legally, he may not be in the eyes of the Commish's office.And I'm merely saying that had the Commish set down some solid and defined rules or guidelines, his forthcoming decision might hold up to the scrutiny it will receive a little more easily. For a not quite apropos example: I have a five year old. He has a wide range of allowances we grant him in terms of what he can and cannot do. But he knows a) exactly which lines he cannot cross and b) the weight of punishment for each infraction, which are more serious than others and what accumulated offenses will bring him.By setting those parameters up - but not being completely set in stone or nailed down specific (the difference between 'don't hit your brother' vs 'don't hit your brother with a hammer', which is more serious but also leaves room for debate - 'I didn't use a hammer, I used a rock?') - I have given him guidelines so that even at 5, he knows where the lines are.And while Vick ain't my 5 year old and dogfighting is more serious than drawing on the wall, the idea is the same in my opinion. Any rules you lay down - at work, at home in life - should be clear, even if they need to be wide ranging and all encompassing.Saying 'don't misbehave' isn't near as effective, or easily defensible, as saying it and following it with 'this is what I mean by misbehave'.But hey, any effort is a good effort to turn around some deplorable behavior before the NFL becomes the WWE. I'm just saying that a well worded doctrine of guidelines would be easier to back if the NFLPA chose to fight a suspension than 'don't embarrass us'.Just my .02.
If Goodell can't get Vick under the Player Conduct Policy, maybe he can get him under the Gambling Policy:
trader jake
Footballguy
Professionally, the gambling angle is going to end up biting Vick more than the dogs.
Not only is it real, but much easier to prove than him actually transporting the dogs himself. Conspiracy means there are others involved, and that Vick was a party to the transport. What is the line that at least one party is "cooperating" with the authorities?
David Yudkin
Footballguy
It states in the Personal Conduct Policy that Maurile posted that a player needs to be convicted or plead guilty to a charge in the Disposition of the Criminal Proceding section at the top of page two.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Well I didn't see much of it on ESPN or NFLN or the Shark Pool but it was all over the news every time I looked. Take this in context. We are not discussing non footbal related stuff here. If an NFL player or associate was involved in the rape/assault then you can e sure it will be all over here. Apples and oranges.
Satchel's Cat
Footballguy
mad sweeney
Footballguy
A lawyer interviewed on the Total Access said that the conspiracy issue could affect his playing time. As 2 of the 3 indicted players are not NFL players and they will be tried simultaneously due to the conspiracy, that their right to a speedy trial may interfere with Vick's 07 season. The other 2 have little interest in trying to delay any court action until January.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Don't you think if Vick offered to pay their legal fees that maybe they would agree to go at his pace?A lawyer interviewed on the Total Access said that the conspiracy issue could affect his playing time. As 2 of the 3 indicted players are not NFL players and they will be tried simultaneously due to the conspiracy, that their right to a speedy trial may interfere with Vick's 07 season. The other 2 have little interest in trying to delay any court action until January.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Only if he's not convicted of a felony here. Then, yes, the gambling angle will be a problem. Otherwise, if he's convicted of a felony, me thinks that's going to take a much bigger bite out of Vick's career.But, let's face it, he's in a big heap o' doo right now as it is just with the indictment.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I couldn't possibly have any idea. And that's even assuming that the Feds would even capitulate to the lawyer's requests to postpone things to suit his football schedule. This is the feds, not the locals, they go at the pace they want.Don't you think if Vick offered to pay their legal fees that maybe they would agree to go at his pace?A lawyer interviewed on the Total Access said that the conspiracy issue could affect his playing time. As 2 of the 3 indicted players are not NFL players and they will be tried simultaneously due to the conspiracy, that their right to a speedy trial may interfere with Vick's 07 season. The other 2 have little interest in trying to delay any court action until January.Not only is it real, but much easier to prove than him actually transporting the dogs himself. Conspiracy means there are others involved, and that Vick was a party to the transport. What is the line that at least one party is "cooperating" with the authorities?
I would not be at all suprised if Vick's career is over, permanently. When the feds get involved this is real bad for Vick. If convited, there is no way that Goddell lets a human being this dispicable wear the NFL logo. Even if he is allowed to play, what franchise is going to want to alienate a huge section of their fan base for an overrated QB. I think many of you are really underestimating the casual fan's interest in the game and how critical that is to a team's financial success. The vast majority of fans will be absolutely outraged if he came and played for their team. He is not that great of a QB and would be devastating to a team's image. All of this is of course discounting the fact that he could spend at least the next few years in jail.
Of course maybe he won't be convicted. I would like nothing better than to believe that he wasn't involved, but it is getting harder and harder with this new information.
Of course maybe he won't be convicted. I would like nothing better than to believe that he wasn't involved, but it is getting harder and harder with this new information.
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CalBear
Footballguy
Well, at least Vick didn't rape a woman and pour household cleansers into her eyes! Let's give him a good citizenship medal! He's certainly a much more honorable character than a typical child molester!
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Leonard Little killed someone, he's still playing. As despicable as the dog fighting biz is, robbing a family of their mother is worse.
mdog1967
Footballguy
Both of you quit being candy asses, I usually agree with the Innocent until proven guilty, but it aint going to matter, Vick aint playing this season, adjust your Cheat sheets fellas. You dynasty nuts better have a second QB on your roster. :Xvery
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mdog1967
Footballguy
mdog1967
Footballguy
This is Footballguys, everything revolves around evaluating talent and projections. God bless Dodds and Yudkin but they are smokin somin if they think the NFL wants to put up with any more Vick BS. Go back to work fellas and adjust your damn projections for christ sakes and wake up, respectfully of course.
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