Philip Rivers Thread

[Dynasty 9]

Rivers never won a Super Bowl. But, he was the quarterback on the best team in the NFL one year. And, nobody seems to blame Rivers for the playoff loss.

What If Marlon McCree Never Fumbles

[Anarchy99 6,154]

9 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

You might not think so, but playing the AFC championship game 6 days after tearing his ACL is definitely a signature moment that epitomizes his toughness, one of his strongest traits.

Rivers has a stronger NFL resume than Warren Moon, and Marino and Fouts are reasonable comps. None of those three won a Super Bowl or had winning postseason records.

Rivers wasn't as good as Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, or Brees, all of whom are arguably among the top 10 QBs of all time, but he doesn't have to be as good or better than them to be HOF worthy. He happened to play in the golden era of QB play in the history of the league to date. IMO he was better than Roethlisberger, though I know that doesn't fit the popular narrative, because the Steelers had more team success with Roethlisberger. Mahomes isn't truly a contemporary for Rivers, so I don't think he is particularly relevant to the conversation.

I generally shy away from comparing players from different generations. If your argument was to compare Moon, Marino, and Fouts because none of them won a SB, so be it.

I definitely would put Marino in a different class than Rivers. Rivers JUST passed Marino in passing yards this season . . . and he retired 22 years ago . . . nearly 10,000 passing yards ahead of Elway in career passing yards (who was 2nd). Marino led the league in passing yardage 5 times, passing TD 3 times, was a first team All Pro 3 times, and won 16 more games than Rivers did in almost the same number of games played.

I realize it isn't Rivers fault that he played with some of the greatest QBs to ever lace 'em up. And we can't hold it against Marino that a lot of the other QBs in the league at the time were pretty meh. IMO, Marino performed better vs. his peers than Rivers did vs. his peers.

That being said, Rivers still deserves a spot in the HOF. IIRC, there was a stretch where in 14 of 15 seasons the AFC was represented in the SB by Manning, Brady, or Roethlisberger (with Flacco being the only exception). That was something we may never see happen again.

[ffmail4me 823]

regarding HOF he seems like he's the Art Monk of QBs (but without the 3 SB rings) He will get in, but it may take a while. 

[Anarchy99 6,154]

I forgot to mention that a lot of the Chargers issues had nothing to do with Rivers. In 2010, the Chargers had the #1 ranked offense AND the #1 ranked defense . . . and only won 9 games and missed the playoffs. 

In 15 years as a starter, Rivers led his teams to Top 10 rankings in points scored 9 times and Top 10 rankings in yardage 9 times. We can discuss and debate why his teams did not have more success.

[Just Win Baby 2,611]

2 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

I forgot to mention that a lot of the Chargers issues had nothing to do with Rivers. In 2010, the Chargers had the #1 ranked offense AND the #1 ranked defense . . . and only won 9 games and missed the playoffs. 

In 15 years as a starter, Rivers led his teams to Top 10 rankings in points scored 9 times and Top 10 rankings in yardage 9 times. We can discuss and debate why his teams did not have more success.

That's easy, though I'm not sure HOF voters will take it into account:

• Bottom of NFL level ownership - there was a reason the Mannings refused to have Eli play for the franchise
• Poor front office, heavily influenced by nepotism, with 7 Spanos family members in front office positions, including John Spanos as Director of Football Operations
• Rivers has had the least compelling collection of head coaches of any QB who is in the HOF or will receive strong consideration for it - since he became the Chargers starter in 2006:
  • Marty (1) - 2006
  • Norv (6) - 2007-2012
  • McCoy (4) - 2013-2016
  • Lynn (3) - 2017-2019
  • Reich (1) - 2020 [Colts]

Edited January 20 by Just Win Baby

[IHEARTFF 1,115]

He’s a HOFer for sure imo. Hard to blame him for being alive at the same time as all time greats Brady, Manning, Rodgers. Compare him to Eli and Ben and Ryan and Brees. He looks pretty good. The Chargers are an awful organization that should be drug out to the street and shot. 

[crushedspirit 122]

5 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

I generally shy away from comparing players from different generations. If your argument was to compare Moon, Marino, and Fouts because none of them won a SB, so be it.

I definitely would put Marino in a different class than Rivers. Rivers JUST passed Marino in passing yards this season . . . and he retired 22 years ago . . . nearly 10,000 passing yards ahead of Elway in career passing yards (who was 2nd). Marino led the league in passing yardage 5 times, passing TD 3 times, was a first team All Pro 3 times, and won 16 more games than Rivers did in almost the same number of games played.

I realize it isn't Rivers fault that he played with some of the greatest QBs to ever lace 'em up. And we can't hold it against Marino that a lot of the other QBs in the league at the time were pretty meh. IMO, Marino performed better vs. his peers than Rivers did vs. his peers.

That being said, Rivers still deserves a spot in the HOF. IIRC, there was a stretch where in 14 of 15 seasons the AFC was represented in the SB by Manning, Brady, or Roethlisberger (with Flacco being the only exception). That was something we may never see happen again.

Marino put up some mind numbing numbers in an era when QBs were open season, receivers were routinely mugged before they could run a route, and nobody would dare catch anything across the middle of the field for fear of their head being knocked into another galaxy. That '84 season is the greatest season ever by a QB. Not only did he throw for over 450 more yards than the closest competitor, he threw for 16 more TDs. In '86, he throws for 600 more yards than the next, and 19 more TDs. 

When people compare numbers from different eras, they have to consider what were the rules of engagement, and how was the game played at that time. I grew up watching the NFL since the 80's, and have seen how the rule changes have provided offensive numbers to be accumulated in less restrictive ways over the years, especially this current era. Having said all that, Rivers might not look the part of a HOF QB to some, but he passed the ultimate test of playing at a high level for a long time, which is something I believe plays a big role in who gets selected.

[Sam Quentin 256]

He probably belongs, but I don’t ever remember that other teams feared playing against him so much...

[need2know 6,320]

Compiled a bunch of stats but man he couldn't win anything in the playoffs.   Ever.   

I wouldn't put him in the hall but they have guys in there with way less stats. those guys actually won meaningful games though.   

I always think of two things when I think of rivers.  How he always had the ball in  close game at the end and how he usually came up short

[need2know 6,320]

23 minutes ago, Sam Quentin said:

He probably belongs, but I don’t ever remember that other teams feared playing against him so much...

Thats because he sucks

[simey 7,896]

1 hour ago, need2know said:

Compiled a bunch of stats but man he couldn't win anything in the playoffs.   Ever.   

I wouldn't put him in the hall but they have guys in there with way less stats. those guys actually won meaningful games though.   

So you are saying the five playoff games he and his teammates (football is a team sport) won weren't meaningful? Philip led his team to an AFC Championship game. That wasn't meaningful? He played in that AFC Championship game with a torn ACL and meniscus. He tore them in the previous game. He had several teammates that were also hurt in the AFC Championship game such as LT, Gates, Neal, Hardwick, and Merriman. Philip has always been tough as nails.

Edited January 21 by simey

[need2know 6,320]

7 minutes ago, simey said:

So you are saying the five playoff games he and his teammates (football is a team sport) won weren't meaningful? Philip led his team to an AFC Championship game. That wasn't meaningful? He played in that AFC Championship game with a torn ACL and meniscus. He tore them in the previous game. He had several teammates that were also hurt in the AFC Championship game such as LT, Gates, Neal, Hardwick, and Merriman. Philip has always been tough as nails.

Tough?   Sure.

We are talking about what he won.  His legacy.   His right for the hall of fame.

His teams were stacked a bunch of years. He lost a bunch of games that were winnable.   Brees would have won more of those games.  Hell a bunch of other top 15 qbs would have won those games. 5 playoff wins in 17 years on stacked teams the majority of those years?   Thats not impressive.   Is he a good qb?  Sure.   Is he great?   Not a chance.

[simey 7,896]

2 minutes ago, need2know said:

Tough?   Sure.

We are talking about what he won.  His legacy.   His right for the hall of fame.

You said, "he couldn't win anything in the playoffs. Ever."  That isn't true.  You also said he didn't win any meaningful games. That also isn't true.  

[need2know 6,320]

5 minutes ago, simey said:

You said, "he couldn't win anything in the playoffs. Ever."  That isn't true.  You also said he didn't win any meaningful games. That also isn't true

 5–7 record in the playoffs and never made a Super Bowl appearance

Edited January 21 by need2know

[SoBeDad 2,291]

He had a future HOF TE in Antonio Gates. And Keenan Allen for several years. Vincent Jackson was good. He had some decent receivers.

[Faust 5,260]

Should Philip Rivers make the Hall of Fame? NFL experts debate his legacy with Chargers, plus the Colts' future at quarterback

[bostonfred 30,551]

His first year eligible for the hall of fame will have Brees (the guy he was drafted to replace) going in on the first ballot. 

His second year eligible will have Brady. 

His third year eligible may well have Rodgers. 

I don't know if it matters to voters but I would not cast a vote for him to go to the hall of fame the same year as someone who was absurdly better in every way like those 3. 

I still think he eventually gets in, but longevity works against players sometimes and rivers didn't exactly go out with a bang. 

[Just Win Baby 2,611]

27 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

His first year eligible for the hall of fame will have Brees (the guy he was drafted to replace) going in on the first ballot. 

His second year eligible will have Brady. 

His third year eligible may well have Rodgers. 

I don't know if it matters to voters but I would not cast a vote for him to go to the hall of fame the same year as someone who was absurdly better in every way like those 3. 

I still think he eventually gets in, but longevity works against players sometimes and rivers didn't exactly go out with a bang. 

I agree he won't get in as part of a class with Brees, Brady, or Rogers. But you are making an assumption about Brady (that he retires after 2021) and possibly Rogers (that he retires after 2022). I doubt both of those things will happen.

But it doesn't matter. IMO it's a matter of when, not if.

As for how he went out, he led the Colts to 11 wins and a close playoff loss to the #2 seed, which could end up in the Super Bowl. Sure, he didn't go out with a season like Brady; not many do. He didn't go out after a Super Bowl win; not many do.  

[habsfan 424]

For players that spark a conversation, it's often more about what various people think should be enough to get a player in rather than what actually does get a player in. I'd be pretty surprised if he doesn't get in.

[humpback 1,138]

31 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

I agree he won't get in as part of a class with Brees, Brady, or Rogers. But you are making an assumption about Brady (that he retires after 2021) and possibly Rogers (that he retires after 2022). I doubt both of those things will happen.

But it doesn't matter. IMO it's a matter of when, not if.

As for how he went out, he led the Colts to 11 wins and a close playoff loss to the #2 seed, which could end up in the Super Bowl. Sure, he didn't go out with a season like Brady; not many do. He didn't go out after a Super Bowl win; not many do.  

When it comes time to vote for the HOF I doubt anyone is going to factor in "he had a close playoff loss to the #2 seed" (who may or may not advance to the Super Bowl) for his last game. I'm guessing he's referring to his mediocre final few seasons of his career, not his mediocre final game.

Rivers started off great, but he's been a ~.500 QB for the last 2, 6, all the way to the final 11 years of his career. His post season numbers weren't good, he never led his team to a Super Bowl appearance and only once making it to the conference championship game. There was only a short window of his career where he was considered one of the best QBs in the league, he made several pro bowls but never an all-pro, and he added nothing in the running game.

He is seemingly a stand up guy, was as durable as they come and most NFL QBs would gladly trade careers, but IMO he belongs in the "Hall of Very Good" not the HOF. That said, he'll very likely get in during a year when there aren't stronger QB candidates on the ballot.

[Just Win Baby 2,611]

Ran across this in an article at the Athletic. There have been 10 QBs who started at least 12 postseason games since 2000. They have combined for 80 postseason losses over that span, and Rivers has 7 of those.

Looking at the average team DEF/ST EPA in those playoff losses, Rivers' teams had the second worst average (-10.8). Only Rodgers (-16.8) got less from his defense and special teams.