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He was in there to milk the game. He got some passes (although a LB was there to blow it up both times). So it's looking better for Ingram owners. But it's a definite ugly RBBC situation. Thomas got a goal line carry and Sproles keeps showing he deserves more touches.

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Pierre Thomas runs better than ingram

Ingram owner and I agree with this....for now. I didn't draft him as a starter and I can afford to be patient. Things change quickly in the NFL.
I don't see this at all. Thomas is a tough runner but Ingram runs with more burst, better vision, and elusiveness IMO. Its still early and I think Ingram is going to separate himself. Thomas is more comfortable obviously in passing downs and is a decent receiver, but Ingram I bet will grow into that role too.
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He was in there to milk the game. He got some passes (although a LB was there to blow it up both times). So it's looking better for Ingram owners. But it's a definite ugly RBBC situation. Thomas got a goal line carry and Sproles keeps showing he deserves more touches.

This bugs me more than anything. Ingram's value clearly lies in TD's, and everyone was touting him as THE redzone back (at least on 1st & 2nd down). If Thomas gets carries inside the 5 this year Ingram is no more than a flex play at best.
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I thought he looked very good with the carries he got. Saints got down early which took him out of the game. When Saints play with a lead they will feed him the ball much more I think. Plus, he may get more involved in the passing game which will allow him to stay in the game more. I wouldn't write him off as a bust yet.

3rd week in a row ive heard this
This... Amazing how every week is against a top defense as well. Funny how this was supposed to be a break out week (and I guess it was a break out week as Ingram hit his ceiling this week), however, now, people are even saying they faced a top defense this week (lol). I still have hope for him but don't get yourself fooled, this will not be be a Clinton Portis break out year. Denver did not have 2 (better) RB's on their roster at the time. Not saying Thomas and Sproles will be better long-term, but both will be better this year, and they both have looked much better YTD.Just way too many carries to go around on a pass-first offense (where Ingram is yet to get positive yardage -- congrats (i guess) if you have him in PPR. Edited by GreenNGold
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I thought he looked very good with the carries he got. Saints got down early which took him out of the game. When Saints play with a lead they will feed him the ball much more I think. Plus, he may get more involved in the passing game which will allow him to stay in the game more. I wouldn't write him off as a bust yet.

3rd week in a row ive heard this
This... Amazing how every week is against a top defense as well. Funny how this was a break out week, now it is a top defense week. I still have hope for him but don't get yourself fooled, this will note be a Clinton Portis break out year. Denver did not have 2 (better) RB's on their roster at the time. Not saying Thomas and Sproles will be better long-term, but both will be better this year.
The Saints just didn't run that much. Ingram had 9 carries to Pierre's 7. It turned into the Brees show b/c it was a shootout.
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I thought he looked very good with the carries he got. Saints got down early which took him out of the game. When Saints play with a lead they will feed him the ball much more I think. Plus, he may get more involved in the passing game which will allow him to stay in the game more. I wouldn't write him off as a bust yet.

3rd week in a row ive heard this
This... Amazing how every week is against a top defense as well. Funny how this was a break out week, now it is a top defense week. I still have hope for him but don't get yourself fooled, this will note be a Clinton Portis break out year. Denver did not have 2 (better) RB's on their roster at the time. Not saying Thomas and Sproles will be better long-term, but both will be better this year.
The Saints just didn't run that much. Ingram had 9 carries to Pierre's 7. It turned into the Brees show b/c it was a shootout.
This is normal, and to be expected, and it is not going to change.
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New Orleans is not committed to running the ball, it's really that simple. Until they sep rotating their backs every other play and give them 2-3 drives in a row to do something I don't thing will improve beyond a little here and a little there...no fluidity in the running game.

Yep, they are like the Patriots in this regard. Ingram really just seems like a bad fit for the Saints.I do think he is a good back who could be producing for a team that likes to ground and pound.
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Pierre Thomas runs better than ingram

Ingram owner and I agree with this....for now. I didn't draft him as a starter and I can afford to be patient. Things change quickly in the NFL.
it doesnt matter how pierre looks or even how ingram looks. the coaching staff is heavily committed and will do everything in their power to prop up ingram. buy buy buy.
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Pierre Thomas runs better than ingram

Ingram owner and I agree with this....for now. I didn't draft him as a starter and I can afford to be patient. Things change quickly in the NFL.
it doesnt matter how pierre looks or even how ingram looks. the coaching staff is heavily committed and will do everything in their power to prop up ingram. buy buy buy.
Wow.
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Pierre Thomas runs better than ingram

Ingram owner and I agree with this....for now. I didn't draft him as a starter and I can afford to be patient. Things change quickly in the NFL.
it doesnt matter how pierre looks or even how ingram looks. the coaching staff is heavily committed and will do everything in their power to prop up ingram. buy buy buy.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
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I read were Ivory is running well and they fully expect him to be full go when he comes off the PUP list, wonder how that will break up the running game. Ivory was a rookie last year but didn't really run like one when given the chance.

Video reminders:

Short one:

Long one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmYPj9a_bF8

If he comes back to this form, he will still be the best runner on the Saints, regardless of draft position.

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The way I see it is if the Saints wouldnt be playing from behind Ingram would have much more opportunities. I own him also and I am hanging on until a better option comes along. I dont need him because I own Sproles also. The Saints need to jump out on top by 10-14 and feed this beast the ball. Sproles is the guy to get us the 1st down when we are playing from behind.

Also Ingram slipped on an easy 5-10yd TD run, otherwise he would have had 2 scores.

Edited by saintsfan1977
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New Orleans is not committed to running the ball, it's really that simple. Until they sep rotating their backs every other play and give them 2-3 drives in a row to do something I don't thing will improve beyond a little here and a little there...no fluidity in the running game.

Yep, they are like the Patriots in this regard. Ingram really just seems like a bad fit for the Saints.I do think he is a good back who could be producing for a team that likes to ground and pound.
Which makes their decision to trade up for this guy all the more curious :shrug:
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I read were Ivory is running well and they fully expect him to be full go when he comes off the PUP list, wonder how that will break up the running game. Ivory was a rookie last year but didn't really run like one when given the chance. Video reminders:Short one:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VegZv616YxwLong one:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmYPj9a_bF8If he comes back to this form, he will still be the best runner on the Saints, regardless of draft position.

I think the Saints could probably trade A RB for defensive help.
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I read were Ivory is running well and they fully expect him to be full go when he comes off the PUP list, wonder how that will break up the running game. Ivory was a rookie last year but didn't really run like one when given the chance. Video reminders:Short one:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VegZv616YxwLong one:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmYPj9a_bF8If he comes back to this form, he will still be the best runner on the Saints, regardless of draft position.

oh please give me a break
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Two things working against Ingram for 2011:

1. Sproles emergence. I don't think anyone expected him to be so good. But he's explosive and is playing like the Saints always hoped Reggie Bush would.

2. Porous defense. The Saints couldn't stop Green Bay and they couldn't stop Houston. They have to get this defense fixed. If they are involved in shoot-outs all year, don't expect Ingram to have a great year.

There is no getting around it, the case for Ingram to get big numbers in 2011 is looking more bleak by the minute. From a sheer talent standpoint, though, I would still be a buyer. He's just simply too talented and the opportunities will come. I also think at some point they will turn to him in the gameplan and he'll show what he has.

This is a great opportunity to get him in dynasty, and he should be a major target in that format. In re-draft leagues, I'd hold, and bench if you have better options until he becomes a bigger part of the gameplan.

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As an aside, if Chris Ivory is close to returning, I wonder if trading Pierre becomes a viable option? He really is unnecessary and I'm sure a team like Detroit or Arizona would love to have him. Of course, the Saints probably don't want to trade him to a conference team. They could trade him to the Chiefs, but are the Chiefs really going to do anything other than play for the number 1 pick?

Much like last year in Buffalo, Lynch leaving in a trade opened the door for bigtime playing time for Fred Jackson. I wonder if a trade of Pierre is in the works or a possibility.

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The sad thing is, if I started him, I win.

How many touches does he need to be effective? I think 18. But more than that, however, is what type of touches they are. They need to come during a ball possession drive, when they are ahead. Because the defense stinks right now, they have had basically no opportunities like that. I'm just not sure they will in the near future, either.

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The Bills were going nowhere last season and it made no sense to keep Lynch, Jackson and Spiller. The Saints are a Super Bowl contender so having quality depth at RB is vital. Plus Ivory isn't exactly durable. Neither is Thomas for that matter. I don't see the Saints trading any of their RBs.

I started him yesterday and he came through. I'm a happy Ingram owner today. :) I'm also encouraged as I said before by the fact he got involved in the passing game. The plays went nowhere but if they keep running screens or quick outs to Ingram he'll get a chance to bust one. Everyone in this offense has a chance to put up big plays. So getting Ingram more involved in the passing game is a very positive development in my opinion.

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Just for the record, Chris Ivory was not put on the PUP list, he was put on IR. He iis not playing at all this season.So Chris Ivory will have no effect on Ingram or any other Saint RB this year.

incorrecthttp://whodatdish.com/2011/09/20/chris-ivory-is-ready-for-his-return-to-new-orleans-saints/
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As an aside, if Chris Ivory is close to returning, I wonder if trading Pierre becomes a viable option? He really is unnecessary and I'm sure a team like Detroit or Arizona would love to have him. Of course, the Saints probably don't want to trade him to a conference team. They could trade him to the Chiefs, but are the Chiefs really going to do anything other than play for the number 1 pick? Much like last year in Buffalo, Lynch leaving in a trade opened the door for bigtime playing time for Fred Jackson. I wonder if a trade of Pierre is in the works or a possibility.

Ivory is one dimensional as a RB. what pierre, ingram and sproles can add to the passing game makes ivory less than useful. i think there is a chance pierre gets traded but it's pretty slim. did bell make it back onto the practice squad?
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Two things working against Ingram for 2011:

1. Sproles emergence. I don't think anyone expected him to be so good. But he's explosive and is playing like the Saints always hoped Reggie Bush would.

2. Porous defense. The Saints couldn't stop Green Bay and they couldn't stop Houston. They have to get this defense fixed. If they are involved in shoot-outs all year, don't expect Ingram to have a great year.

getting lit up by two of the best offenses in the league isn't anything to be ashamed of. that said, i think the playcalling would be different if the saints were playing with a lead early in the game. they haven't had the wind at their back in the first quarter in a game this season.

ETA - the saints defense seemed to make adjustments in the second half in both the GB and Houston games. it will get better for them. they had one of the better defenses, statistically, last year and i have no reason to expect anything different by season's end.

Edited by saintfool
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Two things working against Ingram for 2011:

1. Sproles emergence. I don't think anyone expected him to be so good. But he's explosive and is playing like the Saints always hoped Reggie Bush would.

2. Porous defense. The Saints couldn't stop Green Bay and they couldn't stop Houston. They have to get this defense fixed. If they are involved in shoot-outs all year, don't expect Ingram to have a great year.

getting lit up by two of the best offenses in the league isn't anything to be ashamed of. that said, i think the playcalling would be different if the saints were playing with a lead early in the game. they haven't had the wind at their back in the first quarter in a game this season.
This.
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Two things working against Ingram for 2011:

1. Sproles emergence. I don't think anyone expected him to be so good. But he's explosive and is playing like the Saints always hoped Reggie Bush would.

2. Porous defense. The Saints couldn't stop Green Bay and they couldn't stop Houston. They have to get this defense fixed. If they are involved in shoot-outs all year, don't expect Ingram to have a great year.

getting lit up by two of the best offenses in the league isn't anything to be ashamed of. that said, i think the playcalling would be different if the saints were playing with a lead early in the game. they haven't had the wind at their back in the first quarter in a game this season.
This.
Yep, look at the next 6 weeks for NO:

@JAX (16)

@CAR (23)

@TB (24)

vsIND (20)

@STL (16)

vsTB

The number in parentheses is the most points each team has scored in a game thus far. TB is probably the only team I would not expect NO to have a double digit lead against by halftime. This schedule looks great for Ingram, he will get 15+ touches each game almost certainly, and he'll be in my lineup every week injury notwithstanding.

That TD run looked like vintage Bama Ingram. Glad he finally got some passes thrown his way as well so defenses cant just say ZOMG INGRAM IS IN THEY WILLZ B RUNNING DA FOOSBALL

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I still feel pretty good about the guy.

Started him as my #3 back in a flex league yesterday, and based off what I saw, going to continue to start him over a soon-to-be-healthy Dez White and James Starks.

He was still given the opportunities you want him to be given yesterday, and hit paydirt once, and as mentioned above, almost did so a second time, but for a slip. The slip is of course a good-news/bad-news thing, but given his high draft pick, he's not going to have that held against him.

All of this continues to tell me he's going to get a ton of red zone work over the course of the season, and as the Saints spend a huge amount of time in that particular area of the field, I still see double digit TD's over the course of the year. Wouldn't be shocked to see him average a score a game from here on out.

Not really sure why all the negative nellyism. More and more, he looks like what we thought he'd look like. A reliable plodder who's going to be the first option near the goal line. I'm still buying.

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I was high on Ingram before the season, I was still high on him after week 1, and even week 2. I'm no longer high on him. It's obvious the Saints have no interest in establishing the run. For the people that think once the Saints get in games where they can control the clock with the lead they'll start feeding Ingram, I disagree. I think they're just as likely to use the short passing game as they are to run in those games. I'm sure Ingram will have one or two 15-20 point weeks but only sprinkled in with a bunch of 12-15 touch games for 60 to 70 yards. His prospects will live and die by the touchdown and that's not something you want for a RB2. I'd consider him a solid RB3 here on out. I'm a big fan of his game but it's obvious he won't get the opportunity to produce on a consistent basis. This would obviously change with a Thomas or even Sproles injury.

Edited by shnikies
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New Orleans is not committed to running the ball, it's really that simple. Until they sep rotating their backs every other play and give them 2-3 drives in a row to do something I don't thing will improve beyond a little here and a little there...no fluidity in the running game.

Yep, they are like the Patriots in this regard. Ingram really just seems like a bad fit for the Saints.I do think he is a good back who could be producing for a team that likes to ground and pound.
Which makes their decision to trade up for this guy all the more curious :shrug:
I agree. made no sense. would of made more sense to grab someone for the defense.
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I was high on Ingram before the season, I was still high on him after week 1, and even week 2. I'm no longer high on him. It's obvious the Saints have no interest in establishing the run. For the people that think once the Saints get in games where they can control the clock with the lead they'll start feeding Ingram, I disagree.

I disagree. I dont see why you were high on him after 2 weeks and now his best game, in a shootout, makes you think otherwise. They have a cakewalk the next 6 weeks where the Saints should be up comfortably in most of the games. I dont think the Saints will run 3 times and punt when theyre up 10-14 points, but I do think Ingram will get considerably more work when games are going like that. If we are at week 8-9 and Ingram is still just 50-60yds and a TD 1 out of every 3 games, I'll agree with you, but I think his touches and TD opps will increase noticeably over the next month and a half. Edited by Kenny Powers
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I was high on Ingram before the season, I was still high on him after week 1, and even week 2. I'm no longer high on him. It's obvious the Saints have no interest in establishing the run. For the people that think once the Saints get in games where they can control the clock with the lead they'll start feeding Ingram, I disagree.

I disagree. I dont see why you were high on him after 2 weeks and now his best game, in a shootout, makes you think otherwise. They have a cakewalk the next 6 weeks where the Saints should be up comfortably in most of the games. I dont think the Saints will run 3 times and punt when theyre up 10-14 points, but I do think Ingram will get considerably more work when games are going like that.

If we are at week 8-9 and Ingram is still just 50-60yds and a TD 1 out of every 3 games, I'll agree with you, but I think his touches and TD opps will increase noticeably over the next month and a half.

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I was high on Ingram before the season, I was still high on him after week 1, and even week 2. I'm no longer high on him. It's obvious the Saints have no interest in establishing the run. For the people that think once the Saints get in games where they can control the clock with the lead they'll start feeding Ingram, I disagree.

I disagree. I dont see why you were high on him after 2 weeks and now his best game, in a shootout, makes you think otherwise. They have a cakewalk the next 6 weeks where the Saints should be up comfortably in most of the games. I dont think the Saints will run 3 times and punt when theyre up 10-14 points, but I do think Ingram will get considerably more work when games are going like that. If we are at week 8-9 and Ingram is still just 50-60yds and a TD 1 out of every 3 games, I'll agree with you, but I think his touches and TD opps will increase noticeably over the next month and a half.
The problem is, there is way too much projected upside to Ingram's value to have rated him as a 2-4 round pick on draft day. It's not just FBGs, there were a ton of all-in's on Ingram in early September. And, barring injury, his upside isn't RB1 upside, it tops out at more like mid-high RB2 upside. This could easily go down as a Slaton-like bust, and all you can do is hold on and pray because his value is hovering around Brandon Jacobs-level. :) One of my more frustrating holds in years! Curse these enigmatic rookie RBs on draft day!
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I was high on Ingram before the season, I was still high on him after week 1, and even week 2. I'm no longer high on him. It's obvious the Saints have no interest in establishing the run. For the people that think once the Saints get in games where they can control the clock with the lead they'll start feeding Ingram, I disagree.

I disagree. I dont see why you were high on him after 2 weeks and now his best game, in a shootout, makes you think otherwise. They have a cakewalk the next 6 weeks where the Saints should be up comfortably in most of the games. I dont think the Saints will run 3 times and punt when theyre up 10-14 points, but I do think Ingram will get considerably more work when games are going like that. If we are at week 8-9 and Ingram is still just 50-60yds and a TD 1 out of every 3 games, I'll agree with you, but I think his touches and TD opps will increase noticeably over the next month and a half.
I still do think this could happen as well. I am not down on Ingrams talent and I think he has a future in New Orleans, but they are gonna have to change their style of play or use Ingram more in the passing game.
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Anyone angry at FBG for going out on a limb and maybe being somewhat or even very wrong about Ingram, has to relax and take perspective. Even the best don't go 100% on calls. And this call is far from over. Time and the laws of attrition are still on Ingram's side, even for this year.

Remember, we all play for those last few weeks when it really counts. Give it at least until then before you curse and moan about FBG's call on Ingram. If he is a featured RB for the Saints come fantasy playoff time, he could win leagues for people this year. All that needs to happen is for one of Sproles or Thomas to be phased out or hurt by then. Let it play out before casting judgment. And even if FBG is proven wrong, oh well. Talk to the shirt.

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I am one of the few in this thread that is a recent buyer of Ingram. I gave Ingram for Starks, straight up. Obviously pretty similar offenses in that the QBs love to spread the ball around. However, Starks is limited to sharing carries with Grant and Kuhn/Rodgers get the goal line carries. Ingram, at least, was brought in to be the lead back this year or why even take a first round pick at RB, so I see his production going up as he gets more familiar with the offense and players around him.

I think people are jumping the gun a little too quick on Ingram, and IMO, is a great buy low if you can get him for a good price. I think he will be a decent flex for the rest of the year, with upside of jumping into the top 20-25 RBs by year end.

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I want to temper the enthusiasm just a bit. As an Ingram owner I've watched all three of the NO games and Ingram is on the field for only about 1/3 of the offensive snaps. The good news is he has been getting the goal line duty and had a TD last week.

The one thing we haven't seen is the Saints with a significant lead, but something tells me that the Saints will keep an even ratio between Pierre and Ingram even then, just with more of them and less Sproles. So even best case, I think you're only looking at about 40% of the offensive snaps (they split 80%, Sproles with 20%).

33-40% of the snaps is not conducive to big production. TDs are his only saving grace until either one of the other two gets hurt or Ingram outperforms Thomas between the 20s and earns a bigger share.

Edited by LawFitz
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