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Mark Ingram (1 Viewer)

'GreenNGold said:
'ConnSKINS26 said:
'GreenNGold said:
'ConnSKINS26 said:
'GreenNGold said:
Yes, I watched the game did you? Yes, Ingram looked ok in mop-up duty. The only time he gets any carries is when the Saints are up by 40+ points. Not exactly the type of player I would feel comfortable starting on my fantasy team.What do you possibly see in him to still be so high on him?
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None of this makes him untalented. I care about talent. Situations change and evolve. He's scored as a RB2/RB3 4 out of the last 5 weeks. That's fine production for someone who got Ingram where they should have. If its NOT fine production for where YOU drafted him, that's your fault. It makes him a bust for YOU, unless you found a way to only use him as a RB2/3/Flex type. Which you should have by now.
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But looking from a fantasy perspective, he has absolutely luckboxed his way into RB2/RB3 territory each of the 4 out the last 5 weeks. There is zero reason to see that continuing. 10-12 points is his absolute ceiling, with his floor easily right around 0.
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How has be lucked into his production? You produce what you produce. Its not like he's getting fluke plays that you should exclude from the data.
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Yes, you produce what you produce, but he has been extremely fortunate to get 3 TD's the last previous 3 weeks (prior to this week), and the only reason he got any yardage tonight was because the saints got such a big lead.While he has been able to manage around 10 points per week, that is his absolute ceiling, and it takes a fortunate turn of events to get him to 10 points. Not something you can reliably count on.
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I think this is an understandable point of view, but I don't necessarily agree. Doing anything 3 weeks in a row, pretty much by definition, makes it NOT a fluke. His re-draft value was always going to be tied to his TD's. So I don't think its fair to then say "oh but without the TD's three weeks in a row he'd be useless." Especially since the very week that he doesn't score a TD (which was purely the result of his coach effectively using him as a decoy), he puts up 10+ points anyways.I've reliably counted on that 10+ points for 4-5 weeks now, and its worked fine for me in my flex when I needed it. I accept that that's what Ingram is right now. I just also happen to believe that that's not ALL he can be.
 
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'Kenny Powers said:
Hopefully they give Ingram 10+ touches in the 2nd half since this game is already over. If they do that, he would probably have a decent game.
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If Ingram doesnt get hurt, he easily puts up 120+ rushing tonight. He finally got "somewhat" consistent touches on a couple drives, and looked good. The fact the he gets injured on his best run of the season is just :wall: I guess we'll find out in the next day or 2 what his status is. I already traded him in 1 league, as long as he could play next week, I'll trade him tomorrow in my other league. Ingy def has the talent, he just doesnt get the touches in this offense. Sproles is making the Chargers look like kids who didnt know how to play with their toys.

 
'Luke Skywalker said:
'GreenNGold said:
Yes, you produce what you produce, but he has been extremely fortunate to get 3 TD's the last previous 3 weeks (prior to this week), and the only reason he got any yardage tonight was because the saints got such a big lead.
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This is a much more reasonable take. :thumbup:
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Not really. How many TD opportunities has been screwed out of? I can think of at least 5 or 6 times where he could have gotten the ball inside the 2 and they've given it to Collins or thrown it.
 
There was a ton of talk about "bust" for McCoy as a rookie. Ingram looked pretty good to me last night, and I think it's a big mistake to read too much into how a coach utilizes a rookie on an obviously STACKED team.

A redraft disapointment for sure, but might be a great buy-low time in dynasty.

 
Personally, I didn't draft him high, so I don't have a ton of interest in the bust discussions. Every time I've needed to play him as an RB3/flex, he's scored 9-10 points. I'll take it. :shrug:

 
'Reepicheep said:
Personally, I didn't draft him high, so I don't have a ton of interest in the bust discussions. Every time I've needed to play him as an RB3/flex, he's scored 9-10 points. I'll take it. :shrug:
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:goodposting: If you need Ingram to be a RB2 then he's going to disappoint you. It's simply not happening and there are no indications presently it's going to happen anytime soon. But if you're starting him as a RB3 he's gotten it done four out of the past five games. Even last night he topped 10 points in PPR leagues despite not scoring. That's solid RB3 production. It's Week 7 folks and where you drafted a guy means absolutely nothing. It's all about what level of production he can provide and what you need on your roster. When healthy, Ingram has proven to be a rock-solid RB3. Is that sensational or even what many people anticipated? No it's not. But it's hardly awful. Now if you need RB2 production from him or are anticipating that, I think you need to re-assess your expectations. The only concern I have about Ingram going forward is the heel injury. At this point, I think I have a pretty good feel for what type of production he's going to deliver each week. He's a RB3 and I'm fine with that. It isn't what I thought I'd be getting from him but at least he's been providing that level of value.
 
'renesauz said:
There was a ton of talk about "bust" for McCoy as a rookie. Ingram looked pretty good to me last night, and I think it's a big mistake to read too much into how a coach utilizes a rookie on an obviously STACKED team.A redraft disapointment for sure, but might be a great buy-low time in dynasty.
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I traded LaGarrette Blount, Ben Tate, Delone Carter, and a 2012 3rd round pick (likely mid) for him and Ryan Torain before this weekend if that might put some perspective on where his value might be right now in dynasty.Of course, a person would probably need to see probably ten or so trades to really get a sense of a player's general value since player value can vary wildly from person to person.
 
'TidesofWar said:
As an Alabama season ticket holder, I can say that I am completely baffled by the Saints re Ingram.

I think MI is better than Richardson, and Mark was very effective cathing the ball on checkdowns.

The Saints traded UP to get him.

But Mark is a rythymn runner, and getting one carry and then 5-10 snaps before the next one reduces his potential value.

I think instead of #####ing about Mark, people need to start asking why the Saints give up what they did to draft him, and then not give him a legit opportunity to succeed.

Ingram in Washington, Denver, Miami, and in several other situations would be money for owners
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I think there are a few things happening at once:1) Though getting a playbook in April, Ingram did not get enough physical reps to have had the entire offense down cold by opening day. That was obvious by the limited packages the Saints were using him in. Not much Ingram or the team could've done about this -- Ingram got some shorts-&-T-shirts reps during the Brees-led players' minicamp, but that wasn't enough.

2) Darren Sproles has, so far, exceeded expectations by a ton. There's no way that the Saints knew ahead of time that Sproles would be their most effective backfield weapon through seven games -- he was brought in as a change-of-pace guy with the ability to start in an emergency. The FFB world was understandably caught by surprise, as well. It's important to remember, too, that Sproles was not on the team when Ingram was drafted -- the plan on draft day was to go into the season with Thomas and Ingram sharing time.

3) To answer more directly TOW's concerns, I will speculate that Sean Payton was badly shell-shocked by the 2010 season and the ridiculous number of RB injuries the team sustained. Whatever RBBC tendencies Payton had in the past, they are all the more locked in now by what happened in 2010. Payton could have a clone of 2002-2006 Ladanian Tomlinson on the team, and he'd still limit LT2 to 180 touches on the season. To "keep him fresh".

 
'Doug B said:
'ConnSKINS26 said:
'Doug B said:
'renesauz said:
There was a ton of talk about "bust" for McCoy as a rookie ...
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Remember when a lot of people thought Rashard Mendenhall couldn't play?
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I still think this. He's so overrated.
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Okay, but we're playing fantasy football here. No one has to be Jim Brown or Barry Sanders to be fantasy relevant.
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Oh, okay. Sure, he'll put up numbers most of the time. But I'm more of a dynasty player than anything, and I look for talent above all. And I just don't think Mendenhall's all that talented.
 
'Smarge said:
When they drafted Ingram, they didn't have Sproles and they couldn't trust that Thomas would be healthy.
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:goodposting:These are lynchpin facts to understanding what Payton had in mind when Ingram was drafted.
 
'ConnSKINS26 said:
Oh, okay. Sure, he'll put up numbers most of the time. But I'm more of a dynasty player than anything, and I look for talent above all. And I just don't think Mendenhall's all that talented.
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Consider also Ray Rice -- he was not special as a rookie.
 
'Doug B said:
'ConnSKINS26 said:
Oh, okay. Sure, he'll put up numbers most of the time. But I'm more of a dynasty player than anything, and I look for talent above all. And I just don't think Mendenhall's all that talented.
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Consider also Ray Rice -- he was not special as a rookie.
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He wasn't "special" as a rookie, production-wise, but I thought he was a special talent. Mendenhall isn't, and has never tricked anyone into thinking he was. He's in a decent situation and produces. Which is good year-to-year in fantasy...until you hit that year where his lack of special talent finally shows. Like this year.
 
'urbanhack said:
'Luke Skywalker said:
'GreenNGold said:
Yes, you produce what you produce, but he has been extremely fortunate to get 3 TD's the last previous 3 weeks (prior to this week), and the only reason he got any yardage tonight was because the saints got such a big lead.
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This is a much more reasonable take. :thumbup:
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Not really. How many TD opportunities has been screwed out of? I can think of at least 5 or 6 times where he could have gotten the ball inside the 2 and they've given it to Collins or thrown it.
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He is not getting screwed out of TD opportunities, as he is not entitled to the opportunities to begin with. You might want him to be a featured goalline back, but he is not, and will not be going forward. He might get some goalline touches, but the Saints have shown they are going to spread the ball around on the goalline a lot, so Ingram's goalline opportunities are going to be few and far between going forward. I don't see any reason for that to change because what they are currently doing is working.
 
I think Ingram is talented/special, and will perform in the right situations. But it has become obvious those opportunities will be few and far between this season.

To me he is still a hold in dynasty or keeper. In redraft this definitely has burned us all but not worth trading away for nothing.

What is amazing is how little hate you see here about Chris Johnson. Johnson was as sure fire FIRST rounder who has burned everyone who owns or drafted him! I know a ton of his owners are already out of the playoff hunt.

 
i see some talent there. not jaw-dropping, but could be a really good RB in the right system.

i just don't think Payton knew what he was getting when they signed Sproles. Thomas is staying healthy, lots of mouths to feed. his opportunities will remain limited.

 
'joffer said:
i see some talent there. not jaw-dropping, but could be a really good RB in the right system.i just don't think Payton knew what he was getting when they signed Sproles. Thomas is staying healthy, lots of mouths to feed. his opportunities will remain limited.
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:goodposting:
 
'joffer said:
i see some talent there. not jaw-dropping, but could be a really good RB in the right system.

i just don't think Payton knew what he was getting when they signed Sproles. Thomas is staying healthy, lots of mouths to feed. his opportunities will remain limited.
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Kind of hard to imagine the Saints would have give up so much to get Ingram if they knew they were going to get Sproles, and get so much production out of him.
 
'GreenNGold said:
'urbanhack said:
'Luke Skywalker said:
'GreenNGold said:
Yes, you produce what you produce, but he has been extremely fortunate to get 3 TD's the last previous 3 weeks (prior to this week), and the only reason he got any yardage tonight was because the saints got such a big lead.
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This is a much more reasonable take. :thumbup:
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Not really. How many TD opportunities has been screwed out of? I can think of at least 5 or 6 times where he could have gotten the ball inside the 2 and they've given it to Collins or thrown it.
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He is not getting screwed out of TD opportunities, as he is not entitled to the opportunities to begin with. You might want him to be a featured goalline back, but he is not, and will not be going forward. He might get some goalline touches, but the Saints have shown they are going to spread the ball around on the goalline a lot, so Ingram's goalline opportunities are going to be few and far between going forward. I don't see any reason for that to change because what they are currently doing is working.
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the reason we all thought he would get goal-line TDs is Payton said that Ingram was going to be the goal-line back after week 1. someone asked him why they went to Ingram and he said "Mark is our goal-line back." no one expected Jed Collins to have taken 3 TDs from the 1 yard line while Ingram has 1. If he had gotten Collins 3, he would be averaging 10.4 PPG in my league to be right around #20 RB. just some rotten luck at the goalline has kept him from meeting expectations points wise despite having a much smaller role than we all expected
 
What's a bruised heel project out in terms of losing any playing time? Is Ingram a candidate to sit a game or two? If he sits next week, he's pretty much droppable to me. I don't see him as an everyweek starter anymore. I know it sounds cold, but my patience even with an injured player is running short. I'd rather have a few key starters and load up on lotto tickets than a bye week filler type like Ingram. Any news on Ingram is appreciated.

 
'Raiderfan32904 said:
I'd rather have a few key starters and load up on lotto tickets
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Assuming the injury isn't serious (I haven't heard any updates since last night), I think Ingram qualifies as a potential lotto ticket. Keep in mind Thomas hasn't proven to be very durable and Sproles is getting a larger workload than he's ever had before. It's tough to predict injuries but it wouldn't be a surprise if Thomas got hurt. If either Thomas or Sproles gets hurt and Ingram is healthy he could be huge in this offense. That's certainly true if Sproles gets hurt. I understand that people are frustrated that Ingram isn't doing more but if the idea is to keep guys around who have lotto-type potential I think he definitely qualifies.
 
'packersfan said:
'Raiderfan32904 said:
I'd rather have a few key starters and load up on lotto tickets
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Assuming the injury isn't serious (I haven't heard any updates since last night), I think Ingram qualifies as a potential lotto ticket. Keep in mind Thomas hasn't proven to be very durable and Sproles is getting a larger workload than he's ever had before. It's tough to predict injuries but it wouldn't be a surprise if Thomas got hurt. If either Thomas or Sproles gets hurt and Ingram is healthy he could be huge in this offense. That's certainly true if Sproles gets hurt. I understand that people are frustrated that Ingram isn't doing more but if the idea is to keep guys around who have lotto-type potential I think he definitely qualifies.
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Seriously, who is out there on the wire that can even come close to Ingrams current production + upside?
 
'Raiderfan32904 said:
What's a bruised heel project out in terms of losing any playing time? Is Ingram a candidate to sit a game or two?
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Payton is one who is very careful about injuries -- he never rushes anyone back. I want to see what happens in practice this week, but with the facts as they are currently:I think Ingram sits out against the Rams.
 
'Doug B said:
'Raiderfan32904 said:
What's a bruised heel project out in terms of losing any playing time? Is Ingram a candidate to sit a game or two?
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Payton is one who is very careful about injuries -- he never rushes anyone back. I want to see what happens in practice this week, but with the facts as they are currently:I think Ingram sits out against the Rams.
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That'd be my guess too. They don't need him offensively at the moment and they definitely shouldn't need him against the Rams.
 
I agree. I see a week off or a short yardage only use.

Of course they may just bring him for his role as Colins decoy at the goal line :-)

 
I haven't looked, but is Sproles really getting more work than last year? He really doesn't have that many carries, he's just doing a heck of a lot with every single one of them.

 
'Reepicheep said:
'packersfan said:
'Raiderfan32904 said:
I'd rather have a few key starters and load up on lotto tickets
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Assuming the injury isn't serious (I haven't heard any updates since last night), I think Ingram qualifies as a potential lotto ticket. Keep in mind Thomas hasn't proven to be very durable and Sproles is getting a larger workload than he's ever had before. It's tough to predict injuries but it wouldn't be a surprise if Thomas got hurt. If either Thomas or Sproles gets hurt and Ingram is healthy he could be huge in this offense. That's certainly true if Sproles gets hurt. I understand that people are frustrated that Ingram isn't doing more but if the idea is to keep guys around who have lotto-type potential I think he definitely qualifies.
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Seriously, who is out there on the wire that can even come close to Ingrams current production + upside?
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From what we saw last year...I'd say Ivory can match his production.What do people think about Ivory's prospects, anyway? He'll probably be suiting up this week, won't he?

 
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Interesting note I saw on ESPN about Ingram's game last night and relates back to the post I made last night about how well he played:

"every time the Saints gave him the ball or threw him a pass, he gained at least 4 yards and/or picked up a first down."

 
'Doug B said:
'Astangi said:
What do people think about Ivory's prospects, anyway? He'll probably be suiting up this week, won't he?
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I think this all depends on Ingram's availability this week. The Saints likely won't list four tailbacks as gameday actives.
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Payton said today Ingram's injury will impact whether Ivory is activated. Based on what he said, my guess is if Ingram is able to play Ivory will stay on PUP.
 
'packersfan said:
Interesting note I saw on ESPN about Ingram's game last night and relates back to the post I made last night about how well he played:"every time the Saints gave him the ball or threw him a pass, he gained at least 4 yards and/or picked up a first down."
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I think four yards and a cloud of dust (or in this case a cloud of recycled tire jiblets) is exactly what the Saints wanted when they drafted Ingram. At some point every team needs that dynamic in their offense.
 
'Luke Skywalker said:
'packersfan said:
Interesting note I saw on ESPN about Ingram's game last night and relates back to the post I made last night about how well he played:"every time the Saints gave him the ball or threw him a pass, he gained at least 4 yards and/or picked up a first down."
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I think four yards and a cloud of dust (or in this case a cloud of recycled tire jiblets) is exactly what the Saints wanted when they drafted Ingram. At some point every team needs that dynamic in their offense.
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I'm going to make a crazy guess and assume you missed the point.
 
'packersfan said:
'Luke Skywalker said:
'packersfan said:
Interesting note I saw on ESPN about Ingram's game last night and relates back to the post I made last night about how well he played:"every time the Saints gave him the ball or threw him a pass, he gained at least 4 yards and/or picked up a first down."
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I think four yards and a cloud of dust (or in this case a cloud of recycled tire jiblets) is exactly what the Saints wanted when they drafted Ingram. At some point every team needs that dynamic in their offense.
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I'm going to make a crazy guess and assume you missed the point.
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No, I'm pretty sure I got it. Don't know why you would think otherwise?
 
Disheartening to see everyone on the Saints offense score a TD except Ingram, but so it goes...this just isn't a great fantasy situation for him right now, but the guy is obviously talented. I drafted him as a RB3 and he's produced like one...still think he has some upside if Sproles/Thomas get hurt

 
I think most people in this thread are wrong even though they're on opposite sides of the argument. One side is saying Ingram isn't a bust in fantasy or real football and the other side is saying he is. You're both wrong. He's a bust in fantasy and is looking very promising as an NFL running back. He was drafted around RB20 in most drafts and it'd be hard to consider him a top 30 back going forward, that makes him a bust in fantasy. He isn't getting the opportunity to put up stats but when he does get the ball he has looked solid by picking up yards after contact and falling forward for additional yards. They haven't been using him in play action probably because he needs to work on pass pro and that has hurt him in getting lanes to run through. This thread has gotten out of control and should probably be locked since nobody has added a single intelligent post in a long time.

 
'shnikies said:
it'd be hard to consider him a top 30 back going forward
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I disagree. He's RB29 in my PPR league and has topped nine points in four of the past five games (topping 10 points three times, including last night). I think he's definitely a Top 30 RB going forward barring injury. The question is whether he can achieve a higher status. At the present time it doesn't appear that will be possible unless Sproles and/or Thomas get hurt.
 
Do you guys that think he is a great bye week fill in also feel the same about Deangelo Williams or Pierre Thomas? Those are the players ranked right ahead and below Ingram in my PPR league.

 
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This thread has deteriorated in typical Cess Pool fashion. So much iPersonality garbage here, everyone should be on a season-long time out.

 
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