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I wouldn't call it an exercise. There just seems to be a lot of hysteria.
For the record: Sandusky is a vile piece of garbage who deserves to die. Curley, McQueary, Schultz and probably Spanier are all child rape enablers and child rapist protectors and accomplices to child rape and should be in jail. And so is Paterno. Does that make you feel like the outrage is better placed? Now stop trying to defend Paterno--it is sickening.
only if sandusky bought the kids dinner before
I can't see it happening. I think they'd be afraid of losing too much alumni money.
everybody is outraged against Sandusky. how much can you talk about him when everybody thinks he's an evil monster who should be punished and possibly put to death?Curley looks like the main culprit in the cover up given that he didn't investigate and told other people that there was basically nothing to see here. Nobody has even considered defending him so what is there to talk about?McQ is taking tons of heat in this thread for not intervening, for calling his dad and not the police, and for sticking around for 9 years while basically working alongside a child rapist who shared the facilities and continued to bring young boys around. Not many people defending him.JoePa is being defended by a lot of people, here or elsewhere though. That's what becomes the focus of the discussion when you have people on two sides arguing with each other. He's not the main bad guy here. He's just the guy in the middle who did a little but not enough. Trying to figure out how much he knew, what he should have done differently, etc. is where most people differ right now.
This will never happen.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$Will never happen.
I was wondering what the potential repercussions against PSU could be. This is way worse than a few players getting some tattoos.But it's not like any of the players on the current team had anything to do with events when they were in elementary school. Not sure how you penalize the current crop of players. I would guess that PSU could lose millions of dollars of government educational funding.By the time this all plays out and is investigated, reported, and decided there will likely be yet another generation of players that went through the system.Maybe ship Penn State over to the Big East. They are dying to get some new teams.
leeroy is having a hard time accepting that paterno turned a blind eye. he is wondering if perhaps paterno was told that it was investigated throroughly, and that nothing of a sexual nature really happened. leeroy is in no way implying or trying to deceptively explain why child rape enabling is ok, but you already know that.
Are there allegations that ANYONE involved with Second Mile (besides the obvious Sandusky) was aware or enabling this?
I guess I've just been assuming the bolded part. Is it even under serious dispute?
I disagree. Leeroy is willfully ignoring the facts and deceptively twisting them to argue that Paterno is not a child rape enabler when that is exactly what he is based on his own testimony to the grand jury and later inaction. He keeps saying we dont know who said what to who, when Paterno himself testified he was told about the sexual abuse. That is deceptive.
None of the people you listed are posting in this thread, so taking out your anger at them on posters is misplaced and silly. This thread and this board would be a better place if you toned it down. I can only speak for myself of course, but I would bet that a lot of other people here agree with me.
If the BoT determines that there is more to lose by continuing the program than to gain, it will. We're not there yet.
For me, the more interesting question is what else may have been covered up during Paterno's tenure at Penn State.It's absolutely conjecture on my part, but IF horrific acts by a coach could be covered up for parts of two decades, then what else may have been successfully hidden from the public.Please don't think I'm rooting for this to happen. It's just something I think is in the natural progression of thought on this matter. For those not geographically familiar with Penn State, it's a small college town with a media presence far smaller than many major college football programs. In other words, it's not located in settings similar to Miami or Southern Cal.Again, pure conjecture, but food for thought.
They may as well. No self-respecting parent would ever send their boy to play football at that school now.
How about a good tar and feathering?
You're joking right? Unwarranted attention? Dude, Paterno enabled the entire situation. He turned a blind eye and allowed it to go on right under his nose. I'd go as far as to say that Paterno has perjured himself by leaving out vital information when he supposedly told a higher authority. Paterno should be arrested and I really think the hammer will come down on him as well shortly. His morals are completely shattered as he protected his friend, instead of innocent kids. Paterno's legacy is now in the gutter and it's written in stone. The Big 10 championship trophy, currently named the Stagg-Paterno Championship Trophy, will have to be renamed. What a disgrace he is.
agreed.. and the leverage could be he brought in donors with deep pockets and a fetish for boys..
:(
I can only take out my anger at defenders of child rape enablers where they defend the child rape enablers. And that is in this thread. Sorry.
I don't know about the government funding, but there are almost certainly tens of millions of dollars that will be handed to victims after civil cases. It could conceivably reach hundreds of millions of dollars if victims continue to come forward. I have no idea how much a settlement would be for just one victim in a case like this.
this is very possible and scary because Sandusky could unleash whatever that is (assuming it exists) when everyone starts telling exactly what they knew about himIt's like this is the Hindenburg and we've just seen the first outbreak of flames, but the whole thing could go up at any time.
AND that a lot of people actually knew what was going on.agreed.. and the leverage could be he brought in donors with deep pockets and a fetish for boys..
I was thinking the Big 10 might drop them too. Depending on how it plays out, negative sentiment towards Penn State over this might prompt the conference and maybe the NCAA to make a business decision. Perhaps to show that a football program isn't more valuable than children's lives. The irony, is the NCAA probably wouldn't shut them down unless they felt the loss of Penn State would be less costly than the loss of fan base.
But what leverage is serious enough to cover for child rape? It seems you're not believing the simple "They just wanted to save the reputation of Penn State and Penn State football" reasoning? I don't think recruiting violations are really any more serious than that, mainly because recruiting violations would mostly just be a shot to their reputation. OK, so there's also some financial implications, but none of that is even remotely more serious than covering child rape.So, if we don't buy that "reputation" is necessarily a believable reason to cover this up, the theory has to be something much, much, much bigger and would have to involve those involved in the cover up.
reminds me of the Hostel movies- only for peds not killers..AND that a lot of people actually knew what was going on.agreed.. and the leverage could be he brought in donors with deep pockets and a fetish for boys..
This is ripping me up thinking about this.. :( Although it seems from your post that you don't really know what the word "enabler" means, I don't really know enough about all of the facts of the case to call you out there, so I wont.I do, however, know enough from the facts of this thread to know that you clearly don't know what the word "defender" means.
Apparetnly most schools accept funding from the federal Department of Education, and those school have to agree to certain terms and conditions. One of those is reporting known criminal activity to federal authories and also reporting on incidents involving children at risk. The DOE has announced it will be conducting its own investigation as to what was known and what was reported, and if found to be non-compliant PSU runs the risk of losing millions of dollars.
The FFA: Where you can't ask a question without being labeled a "defender".
That's not what I am doing at all.
Sandusky is the lowest form of scum on earth. He will get what he deserves in prison.McQueary is a coward. He should be fired and if they can find something to charge him with, brought up on charges. At the absolute minimum, he should never hold a position where he is responsible for the safety of children for the rest of his life.Curly and the other admin guy are despicable human beings. I think they're only facing 7 years for their charges? They deserve more.Maybe the "disproportionate" vitriol on Paterno is that there are people defending him. No one is defending the rest. There's not a lot to discuss after the above statements are made.
I get what you're saying and that it COULD happen...but I'm saying it won't. Students would destroy that campus, which is wrong, but it's what would happen. There's a reason PSU has a 100,000+ capacity stadium and it's always full. Football is such a part of Penn State, and while that is part of the problem that caused this in the first place, it's also a big part of why Penn State is what it is today. To each their own opinion, but I'd be flat out shocked if this happened...of course I'm shocked at this too...so...
Something called the Clery Rule or Act or something like that.
Like I said, whistle blower laws protect whistle blowing. They don't protect all of a whistle blower's actions. These guys have performance plans and performance standards just like most of us do in our jobs. It wouldn't surprise me if there's language in them about "providing a safe work environment" or something like that. That's fairly typical of anyone in a leadership/management role.
Maybe some definitions would help:Enabler: to make possible or easy (see Joe Paterno).Defender: to maintain by argument, evidence; to support (an argument, theory) in the face of criticism (see Leeroy Jenkins)
If it turns out that Sandusky's retirement was due to the 1998 incident, then Joe has no excuse for not doing more on the 2002 incident.
I think there's a big difference between a cover up and this.Cover up means exactly what you're saying BUT the administration is disgusted by this. They kick him out. They have leverage over him, obviously. They say do all of the following or we go straight to the police. Instead, he:-- was given access to the facilities-- was flown to bowl games-- given emeritus status-- allowed to bring children with him to all of the above-- given official e-mail addresses, offices, etc.There's no reason a "cover up" has to involve all of those things. The first step in a good cover up is covering all of your tracks. That means kicking Sandusky out.I find it hard to believe the conversation didn't at one point turn to:Jerry, we are thinking about going to the cops. But this looks bad, so instead, we're just going to evict you from Penn State.Jerry then says, "go F yourself, I've got THIS. If you want to go to the cops, I go with this. I'm not leaving Penn State."Saving the reputation of Penn State and Penn State football is fine, but if they are going to do that, they evict him. The fact that they didn't is telling.
Sure it is. You keep claiming we dont know what Paterno knew or was told in 2002 when he has testified under oath about what he was told and we know. You are trying to muddy the waters and essentially arguing that maybe Joe didnt know enough to do the right thing, or that he might have been told there was no wrongdoing by the AD so his inaction is excusable. That is vile bull. Paterno knew what happened, we know because he testified to it under oath, and he did nothing regardless of what he was told by Curley or Schultz or anyone else.
