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WR Josh Gordon, KC (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Matt Waldman
- Start date
False Start
Footballguy
According to NFLN, a new drug policy has been reached, it is breaking news on their screen.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Starting again? He never stopped. O/U on the next time he pisses hot? I'll take December of this year...
In dynasty, you're a stone cold fool if you're not trying like crazy to sell high the instant an official announcement is made about him playing this year.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
there is a pretty big banner at NFL.com that the agreement has been reached
Yeah agreement reached they said on NFL Network and they will announce today.. 10 games official they said for Josh . back week 12 and he is allowed at the facility and at team meetings so he can be updated on everything and ready to go and they can keep an eye on him. . he also quit his car dealership job. . Welker back this week.
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Alonzo Mosely
Footballguy
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
Maybe being a car salesman for a month scared him enough for him to realize that he needs to make some lifestyle changes in order to keep making mad cash by simply running fast and catching a ball. I guess I'm a stone cold fool, because I have him in a dynasty and it would take a LOT in trade to pry him out of my hands. WR#1 potential, so I'll gladly hold until proven wrong.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Gordon has failed a minimum of five drug screens in the past four years. We know he is still hanging around people holding drugs. But let me guess: this time, he finally just gets it, right?
If it were up to me, the NFL wouldn't test for recreational drugs at all. But they do, and Gordon's extensive history suggests that it's probably only a matter of time. The speeding / weed and DUI incidents happening while his suspension was pending, as well as his statement after losing the appeal don't exactly scream "changed man" to me. YMMV.
Re: his FF value, redraft-wise, if you got him as a cheap / free flyer and he ends up giving you a handful of quality starts, then well done. But in dynasty, he's never been close to that cheap. We had this exact same discussion this offseason; Gordon was valued at an equivalent level to guys like AJ Green and Dez Bryant, players with equal ability and a fraction of the risk. If you held or invested in Gordon in January at those prices, the instant news of the failed test hit, you took a massive loss. News of some type of amnesty is pretty likely to cause another burst of optimism, which should drive Gordon's value back up (although likely never back into top-5 startup range). If you bet on Gordon staying clean, again, then it's pretty likely that you're missing the final realistic sell high window. If / when he smokes another doober, his value going to crater for good, like Justin Blackmon's did after his pot arrest. Could he play the rest of his career without further incident? Sure he could. But the chances of, say, an Antonio Brown doing so are much, much higher. Let someone else roll the dice by making a huge investment in Josh Gordon.
simey
Footballguy
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Being a car salesman for a month is going to teach him something that getting kicked out of two colleges and multiple NFL suspensions and corresponding loss of pay didn't? If anything, being allowed back into the league this year would seem to reinforce his "I can do whatever the eff I want" mindset.
I'm not saying that he should be cut or anything. But there are a ton of wildly (overly) optimistic Gordon fans out there (this thread is exhibit A) who are seeing this as "he's finally out of the woods completely" or some such nonsense. Find one in your league and extract that WR1 value while dishing off the HUGE risk. You'll be happy in December. Or March. Or next September. Or whenever the urge to burn hits Gordon again.
joey
Footballguy
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Everything is a bargaining chip in a negotiation. The PA obviously got no retro application of rules that worsen existing penalties.
He failed for Cough syrup, second hand pot smoke and having a couple of beers and driving (inexcusable, but something I'd bet 80+% of folks posting on theses boards have done before).
I think he'll be fine
Football Menace
Footballguy
Does the 2 games he missed count towards the 10?
Apple Jack
Footballguy
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
I'm not banking on a change from Gordon (thought it is possible), but the NFL is clearly chilling out on it's anti-marijuana campaign. The penalties are lessened, the drug test limits are relaxed. I wouldn't be surprised if they test less frequently. This is a good development for his long-term stock.
That said, as a new Gordon owner, if he gets through the last six weeks of this season clean and puts up big numbers, he's a candidate to sell high for sure.
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Mainly because I'm not a d-bag who needs to challenge random internet strangers to bets to make up for having a small crank. If you want to discuss FF, have at it. If not, please just get banned again ASAP. TIA.
It's somewhat rare for anything to be retroactive.
But if some stuff is going to be retroactive, it's the stuff that becomes less harsh under the new policy. They're not going to make something retroactive that's more harsh.
Does it concern anyone that the NFL/NFLPA didn't mention Gordon in their press release?
Press Release
Press Release
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
I think the main point of the question was to see how strongly you felt about him getting popped again "by December". That seems like a pretty strong prediction that borders on hyperbole, and I along with the OP who asked the question were curious if you actually believed that. FWIW, I think there's a pretty low probability that he fails a test again by December, and I think it's pretty ridiculous to suggest that. Sorry if I offended you.
RichInOrlando
Footballguy
It appears that the agreement that's been reached is on the PED policy, not the drug policy.
They may be close on the drug policy, but it's apparently not done yet.
Good point. I didn't read that right.
With all the reports contradicting each other the last few weeks, I was worried that something had changed with Gordon.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
IMO it's hugely likely that he does indeed continue to struggle with drug issues. As far as exactly when the next incident happens, I don't really see a ton of value or relevance in speculating on that. He's averaging one failed test (just counting the ones we know about 100%) every 7 - 8 months currently, dating back to when he started getting tested upon entering college, so considering he failed on this past March, December seems like a reasonable place to put the O/U.Peyton Marino said:
Looking at him from a dynasty standpoint, an individual failed test, the timing of the next one, if or how many games he plays this year, etc don't really move the needle on the value of this player over decade of his remaining NFL career. The issue there is the chances of him continuing to use and washing out completely, which is the course that Justin Blackmon appears to be on.
Personally, the new policy isn't a huge game changer for Gordon's value IMO. If he can't put down the bong, he's going to get nailed again, regardless of the slight change in the threshold. And he's obviously in whatever the most advanced stage of the new program is already.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
FlapJacks said:
If you actually believe that it was cough syrup and 2nd hand smoke, then I have some oceanfront property here in Indiana to sell you. Come on guy, no one can possibly be that naive.
The General
Footballguy
12 team league with small bench and I'll hold him.
At the very least I should be able to trade him for someone better than waiver wire players as it gets closer to week 12.
Ofcourse he is a hold. Jamal Charles is out 6+ weeks and that would put his return around when Gordon is back and no one in there right mind would drop Jamal. and Gordon was the #1 WR last year like Jamal was the #1 Rb so there almost equal in value. If you cant hold him due to bench size etc then you trade him for something you need.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
If it was second hand smoke, it was from a clown car with everybody doubled-up in laps, each smoking their own joints with the windows rolled up, driving Josh to his test. That's almost as ridiculous as both Gordon and his doctor not knowing that codeine is on the banned substances list when he's in Stage II of the league's drug program and among a culture where sizzurp is the refreshment du jour.
And accidentally failing those tests might be a worse indicator than if they were from partying.
And accidentally failing those tests might be a worse indicator than if they were from partying.
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Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Gordon's mom ain't even buying those excuses. Evidently some of his FF owners are a different story.
VaTerp
Footballguy
Looks like new policy has been officially agreed to. Curiously no mention of Gordon in this ESPN blurb:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11542076/nfl-union-ok-new-performance-enhancing-drug-policy-human-growth-hormone-testing
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11542076/nfl-union-ok-new-performance-enhancing-drug-policy-human-growth-hormone-testing
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Call me crazy but it's possible imo. NFL limit was so absurdly low that a closed car with a couple people smoking could trigger a positive. NFL had their positive set at 1/10 of what the Olympics tests for.
Gordon's mom ain't even buying those excuses. Evidently some of his FF owners are a different story.
bulger2holt
Footballguy
With all the injuries and BYE weeks coming up, it's going to get difficult holding him (12 team with 6 bench spots)
wasted space 25
Footballguy
I already know everyone is gonna jump on me and say "prove it" but Gordon is appealing this suspension. He is trying to get this thing reduced even more. I know someone in his agency and thats what they are working on now. Go ahead and start questioning me fellas.
That's the PED policy, not the drug policy; the drug policy has not been officially agreed to as far as we know.
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2999292
Gordon's mom ain't even buying those excuses. Evidently some of his FF owners are a different story.
VaTerp
Footballguy
Thanks for the clarification. Multi-tasking and didn't look beyond searching for Gordon's name.
elshagon
Footballguy
I thought he already appealed and lost? Or can he now appeal the new reduced suspension? I think he should appeal, he has a good case.
Not to start this debate all over again, but:Call me crazy but it's possible imo. NFL limit was so absurdly low that a closed car with a couple people smoking could trigger a positive. NFL had their positive set at 1/10 of what the Olympics tests for.
Gordon's mom ain't even buying those excuses. Evidently some of his FF owners are a different story.
let's stipulate that it WAS second-hand smoke. For Gordon to have tested positive, he would (per your own post) had to have been in a closed car with several people smoking, for an extended period of time. IF Gordon was able to abstain (which is doubtful based on his history), he should have known better than to be in that situation. Being around someone when they light up is one thing; sitting for hours in an enclosed space while they partake of a substance that could cost you millions of dollars is another. (He's lucky that it's ONLY going to cost him about $90K).
So, even if he didn't actually smoke the weed (which is very doubtful), he still did something that he knew he shouldn't have, and put his job at risk. He/you can blame the low threshold all you want, but he has no one to blame but himself.
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no surprise there
My question is will the new CBA give them new grounds for appeal (i.e. challenging the science) or allow a disinterested party as arbitrator ?
I seriously doubt this is true, but if it is, he's going to fail.
As has already been noted in this thread; he went through the appeals process. I highly doubt the new policy will include a loophole that will allow for a 2nd appeal.
As has also been previously noted in this thread, he has NO legal basis for a lawsuit, either.
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wasted space 25
Footballguy
I guess we'll defer to your expertise on labor law and collective bargaining agreements.
Just out of curiosity, where did you go to law school?
