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Tannehill's upside (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter yankdog
- Start date
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Tannehill is killing Matt Ryan. Not even close at this point.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I wrote this in another thread
"Tannehill has prospered like a gold speculator in California during 1848. The play call is literally throw it short flat to Landry and then tell Jarvis to treat it like a punt return from that point on. That guy is breaking tackles at an alarming rate for a WR. Eventually all that contact is going to catch up with him but enjoy it now. The formula forTannehill is obvious, short high percentage throws to potential playmakers who can turn it up field or make guys miss. With all that good vibe last week and confidence I kept praying they would turn Tannehill loose on a couple long balls, Kenny Stills finished the day with ZERO catches and I don’t think he was targeted once. How many of these 25 completions he broke the NFL record with, how many of them were over 20 yards in the air? I doubt any. I’m happy he is competent on short passes and can make plays with his legs, all good stuff. But he still has limitations and do not be fooled into thinking Tannehill is a game changer because he surely isn’t right now."
If all you are doing is sifting over stats and not watching the actual games he appears to be doing well in, you're doing yourself a major disservice. He still cannot connect on the long ball or any pass over about 15-20 yards down the field.
"Tannehill has prospered like a gold speculator in California during 1848. The play call is literally throw it short flat to Landry and then tell Jarvis to treat it like a punt return from that point on. That guy is breaking tackles at an alarming rate for a WR. Eventually all that contact is going to catch up with him but enjoy it now. The formula forTannehill is obvious, short high percentage throws to potential playmakers who can turn it up field or make guys miss. With all that good vibe last week and confidence I kept praying they would turn Tannehill loose on a couple long balls, Kenny Stills finished the day with ZERO catches and I don’t think he was targeted once. How many of these 25 completions he broke the NFL record with, how many of them were over 20 yards in the air? I doubt any. I’m happy he is competent on short passes and can make plays with his legs, all good stuff. But he still has limitations and do not be fooled into thinking Tannehill is a game changer because he surely isn’t right now."
If all you are doing is sifting over stats and not watching the actual games he appears to be doing well in, you're doing yourself a major disservice. He still cannot connect on the long ball or any pass over about 15-20 yards down the field.
Todem
Footballguy
His pocket presence is still below average. And without that he will never become an upper tier QB.
It just will never happen. And I don't believe it is something that can be coached as much as having "it". QB's with great pocket presence is what separates most of them with everything else being equal (arm strength, accuracy etc).
It just will never happen. And I don't believe it is something that can be coached as much as having "it". QB's with great pocket presence is what separates most of them with everything else being equal (arm strength, accuracy etc).
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Good enough to keep us from drafting a replacement, and for us to commit a huge portion of our salary cap to...not good enough to take us to the promised land. Will keep Miami mired in mediocrity for a long time. Probably the same for fantasy teams.
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
If nothing else, the fact that Tannehill can still, without irony, be considered an "above-average" starting QB* with all his limitations ought to give everyone a deep appreciation of just how difficult it is to play the position at a superstar level in today's NFL.
* - If you disagree with this, go ahead and name me 16 other NFL QBs you'd rather have under center for your team.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Brady, Ben, Dalton, Flacco, Luck, Carr, Rivers, Romo, EManning, Rodgers, Brees, Newton, Ryan, Wilson, Palmer
I got him 16th
matttyl
Footballguy
In terms of real NFL, I don't think I can.
In terms of fantasy redraft, I can. In terms of dynasty fantasy, it's close.
jbradford787
Footballguy
Having Tannehill and Ryan in dynasty is hurting me. Seriously considering trying to trade one of them for Tyrod Taylor during his bye week.
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
I'm sure it was a rough day to be a Dolphins fan.
I'd encourage you to look at the career arcs of Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Rich Gannon and Philip Rivers.
Tannehill has his flaws right now. He also just started his 55th game in the NFL last night. Just to give you a few points of reference, here's where some other QBs were in their career at that point.
-Drew Brees was still with San Diego. They decided at the end of that season to offer Brees an incentive based deal. He chose to go to the Saints.
-Tom Brady had won titles already, but was widely viewed as a game manager. It wasn't until his 97th start that he became a fantasy football monster.
-Ben Roethlisberger also had won a title but was also viewed as mostly a game manager type. He was viewed as a fringe QB1 or solid QB 2 until he broke out as a fantasy player last year. He started his 144th game at the start of last year.
-Philip Rivers led the league in TDs the year that he made his 55th start. In the two years leading up to that he'd thrown for a little over 3000 yards passing per and 22 and 21 TDs.
NFL QB is the most difficult position to play in all of sports. Tannehill is good enough at this point to be an average QB in the league. As such, he's going to get a lot more starts. Its possible he levels off here and sort of becomes a Joe Flacco/Matt Ryan type. (two years ago, I would have included Big Ben with Flacco and Ryan). Its also possible the next coaching staff stabilizes the train wreck thats' been the Dolphins the last few years, and makes him a far better player than he is today.
Personally, I think it would really help too if the front office stopped going the mercenary route for the WR position. Aaron Rodgers to Jordy Nelson didn't happen in one training camp. Hopefully he can start counting on the Parker/Landry combo as soon as next year.
Todem
Footballguy
I don't disagree with your post at all. Sucks my team has an average QB and not an upper tier guy.
Because this is a QB/WR league only now with the touch/flag football rules in place. Without a highly competent QB your freaking toast to win and go deep in the post season. Imagine Andrew Luck on the Dolphins instead of that dumpster fire in Indy.
He would be having a career year IMO. Miami has a lot of good talent up and down the lineup:
Miller - who be even better with defenses having to respect an Andrew Luck
Landry - would be great where ever he plays.
Matthews (who continues to be ignored)
Jordan - Luck would hit him in the seam at will.
Parker (who IMO will become a viable red zone stud)
Stills - who would flourish with luck throwing him the rock see Drew Brees
There is plenty of talent
Tannehill is average let's be honest.
I love his moxie, his preparation, he has great command of the huddle. He has all the intangibles. But the physical talent of throwing the ball downfield consistently (he does make some great throws but then makes some hideous ones too often) and his lack of a natural knack of pocket awareness and great footwork in the pocket (which is critical to be an elite QB) is what will alway hold him back.
But we are stuck with him for the foreseeable future. I am behind him and really hope he can develop some more because he is still a developing QB (he was a WR most of his career). He is trying to learn the hardest position in football at the highest level.
It's never been done.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I don't know anyone besides Aaron Rodgers who throws a prettier rollout pass than Tannehill. That one to Cameron in the red zone, rolling to his left was absolutely perfect.
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
I mean for your real-life NFL squad. And in that context, he's right there in the 12-16 range with guys like Flacco, Eli, Ryan, maybe Bridgewater / Bortles / Carr if you're feeling lucky?
He's an $18M-a-year guy not because he's 90% as good as A-Rod or Brees, but because what's the alternative? Supply and demand can be a real ##### sometimes.
Todem
Footballguy
They had pocket presence though....developed pocket awareness and the uncanny ability to step up to the side or out of harms way and deliver the football quickly.
If he became a Joe Flacco Matt Ryan type I would take that. He is no where near them because those guys are far better pure passers. I wish I could agree with your assement, but I have watched every single game of Tanny's career.
It's just not happening on a consistent basis to think we have a true franchise QB who can win games at the highest level of pressure and the playoffs. I just do not see anything that tells me it will happen after 3 going on now 4 seasons.
I want him to be the man....badly. But he is no where in the league of Big Ben, Brees, Brady, Warner Ryan or even Flacco. Even in those guys infancy they showed things I have never seen Tanny show at all. Accuracy, great command of the pocket and the ability to get the ball out quickly. He has not shown that at the level you need to be a very good QB in the NFL.
Not close.
You gotta understand. I had the privilege of watching Marino's entire career (and in person till 1997 when I gave my seats up in disgust of Jimmy Johnson's buffoonery of handcuffing Marino to handing it off 40 times a game to crap talent for the sake of running the ball 3 yards a pop) I see nothing that tells me the Dolphins are any closer to getting a QB of his caliber...let alone Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco's caliber in Tannehill.
Is he competent? Yes. can he run the offense? Of course. Will he win games? Yes. Will he lead us deep in the post season?
mmmmmmmm don't think so.
Todem
Footballguy
Yeah he makes some great throws on the run. But you need to be able to be a great pocket passer to win in the NFL. And have the footwork (Rodgers, Big Ben for example as some of the best) to keep plays alive.
lod01
Footballguy
Same formula for a lot of teams in the NFL. See Andy Dalton. Has never won a playoff game. See Carson Palmer. Has never won a playoff game.You can't let them go because you are far worse off without them but they just can't get over the hump and the bottomfeeders in the NFL like the Texans, 49ers, Browns & Bills would die to have either of these 2 guys.
Todem
Footballguy
Agreed. Like I said we are stuck with him. So I hope for the best.
But I do not have homer rose colored glasses and try talking myself into thinking we are winning and AFC crown let alone an AFC east title.....no way. He is not good enough at this point.
Hope he can be......all we can do is hope.
But I still think you draft a QB every year....I don't care what round. But keep drafting them. And if a blue chip QB falls into your lap.....the hell with it. You draft them.
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Agreed, that play was sweet. But I watched each of the Dolphins last two games (last week's in person), and that was one of the few times where he actually did that. For whatever reason, they're really not taking advantage of his mobility. It's all quick hits to Landry and Matthews, with an occasional deep shot to Stills. I understand they want to make the most of their WR's strengths, but why doesn't the same logic apply to Tannehill?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The sad part is, that's the going rate for an average to slightly above average QB in today's game. As bad as Tannehill is, what are the other options?
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Papa John's
Footballguy
Watching Lazor from the sidelines yesterday and looking at the play calls in the 1st half, I can't help but think he wanted this. I know these gigs are hard to get in the NFL, but he seemed as if he had given up on Tannehill from the sidelines and was just hanging him out there (way too much passing and they were only down 7 and then 14).
That article doesn't make a lot of sense. Who cares what the interim coaching staff thinks? Everyone knows they'll be gone in a few weeks.
Also, what is his actual contract situation? They don't actually owe him $96M, right? That's just the big number that gets tossed out to the press. How much is actually guaranteed?
Todem
Footballguy
OVer 46-50MM of it if I am correct.
Huge amount of money. He hit the lotto. He is so average......it's disgusting the money this stiff commanded.
He is a stiff. No two ways about it. Zero pocket presence = BUST.
He is a bust. I have seen more than enough to come to that conclusion. And to think all those teams that passed up on Robert Wilson (us included). Dear lord. Never stop drafting QB's (Derrick Carr was there for us) while they are in their rookie contract.
Never.
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Todem
Footballguy
Van Dyman
Footballguy
Todem
Footballguy
Van Dyman
Footballguy
Todem
Footballguy
Here's a rundown of his contract. I don't agree with the rotocomments above yours
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/ryan-tannehill/
He's a fine looking QB. He as close to a perfect game as a QB can have in week 7. (to avoid typing I'm gonna call it perfect from here on)
If you look at PFR, any of his three games with 100+ QB rating are fine if not very good.
He has some stinkers. He had a bad run four games around that perfect one where he threw more INTs than TDs.
He's upped his game. He's close to an automatic 2 TDs per game only missing 3 times.
(I don't count last week's "we are going to run a ton and barely pass" game. He didn't even get 20 attempts and the interim coach's determination to establish a run mentality doesn't at all suit his performance)
They haven't given him a solid run game but one that's good here N there. That doesn't make any QBs job easier. They had that issue with their line last year and while that's settled down, they could improve.
I think their team offense is pretty average and two TDs per game isn't bad at all, actually pretty decent.
The four or five stinkers need to be broken down and coached up and all that.
This is his fourth year. Ignoring the contract, I think people want the whole offense to be better not just him and he takes the brunt of it.
He lost his cool amidst that bad run and looked like a goner but he's gathered himself well, especially with that perfect game.
4 games of more than 100 yards is not good. Games of 15 and 12 yards rushing should force a coach to replace his whole OL and RB and maybe FB. 42, 59, 70, and 74 are nothing to write home about.
I totally understand why Campbell did what he did last week. Tannehill fans gotta see the forest for the trees. I don't expect he'll be the predominantly run-oriented ever again but he needed to whip them OL into shape. I get that they're excited to get the rookie WR back and when the passing production isn't their it upsets them, but ultimately what they truly want is a balanced O that wins.
If Campbell keeps the job, last week's game is going to be discussed a lot and may have built something. Time will tell.
I don't think they have any major issue in the passing game and either love their receiving corps or am impressed with their bright future each week.
Everyone here insists their RBs are quality and seems to have a favorite so if I roll with that, well then they had better consider replacing their OL coach and every single lineman because the bottom-line is that run game is no good.
I don't think Tannehill is Marino like and can handle no run game and be some stud. I do think he could be their guy, likely will be, if they have a balanced O.
The contract as you see is excessively high. The cap went up considerably and should continue to. I'm not sure how it will look in a couple years as most every QB is overpaid but I'm inclined to think it's still too high. I think this is going to be a spilled milk situation that won't be undone. He'll hold the cards like Bradford and others and they won't cut him to free up space nor will he cave and renegotiate. I often notice people considering him not a good player bringing up his contract and strongly feel ya gotta separate the two.
Todem
Footballguy
With all due respect. Grimes wife is a total whack job and pure cancer.
However. Tannehill is dreadful and took 3 steps back this season. He simply is not a franchise QB but this team felt the need to give him a lucrative extension before this season was even over. Another in a long line of total whiffs by this organization. It's sad because in the summer he looked so sharp, but as I have said...I want to see it in the regular season at NFL game speed. He failed miserably.
It was a disgusting performance yesterday by this team. They have mailed it in save for Oliver Vernon, and Jarvis Landry. Even Lamar Miller is done. He is leaving here no doubt. This ownership and front office are a travesty to long time Fins fans.
It's a sad sad state of affairs here. I can't even get my son into this team. All he has seen is pure garbage with the Dolphins.
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Perfect hire for him
Need something significant on the defensive side so he doesn't have to put up 30 points to win
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
This is an amazing story.
Here's to hoping for a little stability for him for the next few years. 2016 will be his fourth OC in five years.
Positives going into 2016.
-Gase has gotten great results from both Jay Cutler and a late career Peyton Manning.
-Landry has asserted himself as a very good chain moving slot WR.
-Parker will be coming into his 2nd year hopefully fully healthy. IMO Parker has the tools and skill set to be a difference making WR1. He also offers a high point ability that should really help Tannehill out with his deep ball. Tannehill never had that with Wallace, and IMO that had a lot to do with his deep ball accuracy issues.
Wait... so Philbin blamed Tannehill for the team's shortcomings, yet had him throw the ball 40 times a game while ignoring the running game?
I don't buy it.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Philbin wanted to draft Carr in the 1st, that's a fact. He was overrode obviously but I think it is important and should be shuffled into the back of your info section on the guy.
