NCCommish
Footballguy
Was Norman on the team when Julio went off in our one loss last year? Pretty sure he was.
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****The 2019 Carolina Panthers Thread**** We Rhule At Losing (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter BassNBrew
- Start date
The Commish
Footballguy
Didn't get to watch....WTF happened?
stratocatter
Footballguy
Last year, was the week post ODB Jr when the whole country was all over the Panthers and Norman. He definitely sucked in that game, was not his normal aggressive self. I think historically he did well against Jones.I seem to remember Luke messing something up on Jone's TD last year but it *was* last year, I may be fuzzy on that. Let's see what happens the rest of the year I guess. I know I shuddered looking at Worley out there today.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Jayrok
Footballguy
Matt Ryan threw for 200 yards and 3 TDs to people not named Julio Jones yesterday. It isn't just losing Norman and his ability to cover. We lost all the veterans back there. No one knows where to be at times and it won't matter how good the front line is if the backfield is constantly out of position.
Jayrok
Footballguy
We have a real problem this year. We can't defend in the secondary and we can't protect Cam. Although, Cam should not have taken that hit at the goal line. He slowed up like he was going to walk in, then bam. wtf? Get in the end zone already and you won't take that hit. Now you're in concussion protocol.
Dwight Freeney looked like he was in his prime against Remmers. Spin move - wiff - Cam on the ground.
Could be a long season.
Dwight Freeney looked like he was in his prime against Remmers. Spin move - wiff - Cam on the ground.
Could be a long season.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Our Dline has been AWOL this season. KK sure isn't playing like a 15 million dollar man. Johnson has been invisible. Ealy hasn't done much either. We have a serious problem on both lines.
We need to stop.acting like we have one of the best O-line in the league and change the play calling to reflect our inability to stop.the rush.
As far as no experience. How long has Coleman been in the league? How about Boston? Bene? I could go on. There are two rookies and both have played pretty well considring that fact. In fact Bradberry has looked like the real deal and Worley is coming along.
We have problems. But they are all over the place. It isnt on one position group it's on all of them.
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Jayrok
Footballguy
The front 7 has given up some rush yardage, but they haven't been awful against the run. The backfield has been torched and it's been way too easy. Way too much cushion to wideouts where a 5 yard down and out or curl in is always available. I agree that Bradberry and hopefully Worley (doubts on him) will develop nicely.
Who said we have the best O-line in the league? Those guys are in the lower end of the league in rush blocking and pass protection.
Bene is our best cover guy. Boston is decent against the run but can't cover anyone and Coleman is more effective when he blitzes, which leaves more holes back there. You can go on with experience in the defensive backfield? How much further could you go? Bene and Boston are in their 3rd year. That isn't a lot of experience. Coleman, McClain and Colin Jones are the only ones back there with more than 2 years experience.
We have problems on both sides of the ball. O-line (no run game or protection) and defensive backfield are the biggest problems, imo. Our D-line isn't getting sacks.. that is true, but I believe it has more to do with QBs getting rid of the ball quickly due to wide open receivers down field. Better coverage will open up more sacks. But when the QB constantly has an open TE or RB out in the flats or across the middle all alone (which was all day yesterday), there's not much danger of being sacked. Matt Ryan had an open slant any time he wanted yesterday.
Jayrok
Footballguy
The most valuable player on the field so far has been Andy Lee. Three punts downed inside the 2 yard line yesterday. One led to a defensive TD on a nice play by Thomas Davis. Another led to a 98 yard TD drive by ATL. The 3rd was too close to halftime and ATL took a knee at the 1 to end the half.
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Super Bowl hangover is real. They sure as hell don't seem like the same team as last year in any way. I was at the Vikings game (4 rows from the field, thanks protesters!) and watching the offense on the bench was like watching a team losing 48-0, except we were winning until the 3rd quarter. So many mental mistakes that cost us. Block in the back, missed FG, punt coverage for crap and being in FG range right before the half and trying to get a TD instead of just extending the lead (two deep drops, 1 sack and 1 INT).
Also, the Norman crap is just plain stupid. The first 3 weeks, Bradberry was rated as highly as Norman. We are still 1-2 with Norman, period. The CBs aren't how we lost to Denver and Minnesota. Maybe he helps a bit yesterday, but honestly, the Falcons were scoring at will. Kind of like how Pittsburgh burned everyone on the Redskins besides Norman. Our offense also didn't score a TD until the 3rd quarter. It was 34-10 with a defensive TD.
The biggest problem IMHO is the offense. I don't know if Cam just needs some time off after Denver and Minnesota, but we aren't right. We should have been 3-0 (could have easily been up 23-2 on Minnesota at half time) going into this game. Falcons just blew us out of the water with a craptastic D.
Also, the Norman crap is just plain stupid. The first 3 weeks, Bradberry was rated as highly as Norman. We are still 1-2 with Norman, period. The CBs aren't how we lost to Denver and Minnesota. Maybe he helps a bit yesterday, but honestly, the Falcons were scoring at will. Kind of like how Pittsburgh burned everyone on the Redskins besides Norman. Our offense also didn't score a TD until the 3rd quarter. It was 34-10 with a defensive TD.
The biggest problem IMHO is the offense. I don't know if Cam just needs some time off after Denver and Minnesota, but we aren't right. We should have been 3-0 (could have easily been up 23-2 on Minnesota at half time) going into this game. Falcons just blew us out of the water with a craptastic D.
The crap I have read on that Carolina Huddle site would make you think it was a Falcons board. Everything from firing Gettleman to Norman is god. We should still be 3-1 right now. I knew the secondary would have its warts some weeks, but they were playing fantastic. Seems like every week we've found a new way to suck.
It we are going to limp along, I hope we get at least a good draft pick. If we win the next few, we are still in the hunt. Atlanta will lose to Denver and it we beat them at home, that evens the records (ignoring the rest). We aren't out of the playoffs quite yet.
Jayrok
Footballguy
That's true, stat-wise. We faced a rookie in Siemian, Bradford with a new offense, and Gabbert. I mentioned a couple of weeks ago questioning what's going to happen against passing teams/QBs like Ryan and Brees twice each. Ryan has 500 yds in his first game. I'm even nervous about facing Jameis Winston two times.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Well, I'm not praising Norman and I know we'd be 1-3 with him as well. And I certainly don't want to fire anyone. That's ridiculous.
I agree with NCCommish in that we have no decent pass rushing DE. Ealy needs to step up there. Without DE pressure, teams are double teaming KK.
Denver will beat ATL and we'll beat them next time at home. We just need to get better (obviously!).
Jayrok
Footballguy
Cam doesn't seem himself. I imagine a lot of it is he is being heavily pressured about every time he drops back. But he's missing throws too. And I wish he had the hunger/drive of Luke. He should have never taken that hit on the 2 pt conversion.
He doesn't. He's missing short reads and we continue to throw deep. I was at a baseball tournament so I never even watched the game (saw score updates and decided against getting mad). What I did see was the play by play a couple times. I remember seeing 3rd and 2 and an incomplete deep to Corey Brown. Just made me even more frustrated. We have these huge receivers/TEs and we sure don't seem to take advantage of them in short 1st down situations. Felt like I saw it a zillion times during the Minnesota game as well. Always going deep when we just need a first down. The series to close the half against Minnesota was a perfect example. This is how it played out.
1st and 10 on Minnesota 43 - We've got a couple timeouts left and well over 1 minute on the clock - Play to Tolbert (I think it was a run) for 7 yards
2nd and 3 on Minnesota 36 - 50ish seconds left, 1 timeout left - We are now in FG range, just need to get a bit closer, but plenty of time. Nope, let's go deep. What happens, 12 yard sack.
3rd and 15 on Minnesota 48 - Clock runs down, out of FG range. Let's just heave it up and voila, interception.
End result, we are up 10-8, no moral victory to at worst go in up 13-8 with a little momentum. Vikings now have even more momentum.
I don't know if this is all Shula or Cam, but the effing deep drops on situations where we can run and/or pass for an easy keep the drive alive play is ridiculous.
Oh, forgot the 2pt conversion. WTF was that. Every other QB in the league runs that in and/or dives into the end zone and doesn't get hit. Why did he slow down and let himself get hit? Same thing happened last year when he hot dogged it into the end zone and got crushed. He still scored, but it was an unnecessary hit as if he thought no one was going to bother him. He's got to know by now that people are going to hit him as much as they can and he can't be stupid and give them more opportunities to do so. If he's making a play, can't avoid it, but GD it, just score and celebrate after you get up.
I'm thinking he should have already signed the deal. Unless he has some sort of awakening, he cost himself some $$$. If he's a top 5 DT, he fights through double teams and still gets some pressure, enough to help the DEs. We have basically the same DEs. Jared Allen wasn't a big pressure guy last year. Maybe Ealy has regressed a bit, but our DTs were the reason our DEs got pressure, not the other way around.
Anyway, we are just sucking all over the place at this point. They need to regroup and unfortunately, because we (and the refs) gave away a win at Denver and at home against Minnesota, the loss yesterday is huge. If Minnesota wins tonight, we are effectively 4 games behind the NFC leader and 3 games behind the NFC South leader based on head to head tie-breakers. That's not good.
Jayrok
Footballguy
I know he wasn't showboating but it looked like he honestly thought he could waltz across the line. He didn't see the guy bearing down on him. Then after the hit, Cam thought he might not have broken the plane so he contorts himself to reach for the line with the ball. Just all totally unnecessary. He got a taunting call earlier in the first half on a little first down run. He takes a hit, gets up and flips the ball to the guy then does his first down salute thing. Flag and 15 yards later, we're further into our own territory than when the play started.
Jayrok
Footballguy
I told my wife "watch this" one time. 3rd and 4 or so. Side camera view shows both wideouts and slot receiver streaking down field. Everyone 30 yards down field and Cam standing there in a collapsed pocket. No one to dump it off to.. no one in the flat. It's so frustrating.
It makes no sense. We know our tackles can't handle the best pass rushers. First half against Denver and Minnesota (aside from the penalties and missed FG), we gave up 2 sacks to arguably the best two defensive fronts and 1 of those was the safety where Cam held it forever. If you remember in the Denver game they spotlighted how good Remmers was on Miller and how we used formations and short drops to help him. We scored 17 against a D that hasn't given up 30 since 2014. Then, we inexplicably go away from it.
I think Cam and Shula have gotten drawn into the great passer rating against pressure and not adjusted for all the sacks and that that doesn't work when the D is good enough to turn pressure into a sack. Pretty sure sacks aren't reflected in passer rating.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Jayrok
Footballguy
Agreed. That may be part of the reason he's always up against the play clock. "Taking care of business" is an attitude I wish he had. Celebrate and have fun with the kids after a TD.
Neofight
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
My team source tells me it was because Bene is still not in shape. He admitted as much after the game. It's been a problem since he came back and the team was tired of it. They don't feel he was putting in the work he needed to.
I honestly don't get this. It's not like he got repeatedly burned by some rookie WR. Julio is one of the best if not arguably the best, when healthy. The secondary is rough enough as it is.
Doesn't seem like a shark move, up to their standards of being in shape or not.
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Jayrok
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
Well I think it is combined with the fact that although not all those catches were strictly on Bene there were several that Bene was out of position on in a zone defense. As we witnessed that is a real bad thing. Also the fact that they waited until today shows it wasn't an easy decision. It is odd and I do think Bene has a ton of talent. But he does seem slower since that injury and if they think Sanchez can play the nickel you get a lot of speed on the field and a player with a knack for takeaways. This team needs to get more of those. So get the youngsters the reps and get faster in the backfield. It did work last time. Still if I were going to do this I would have at least waited for Bradberry to be back at 100 first.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Absolutely. This guy was the best slot corner in the NFL last year prior to get injured. He was a huge reason for our defensive performance on 3rd down last year. So for me I got to give a playmaker a chance. But then again we don't know how much this had been discussed. As I said there were reports in training camp about his conditioning but it was written off to rehab. This seems more like a last straw thing.
FUBAR
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
The rules on practice squad may have precluded that. There are a lot of rules on eligibility based on playing time, time in the league, etc.
Still have to release a player on the 53 to get them on practice squad. They may try to do that.
Odd move, but I read somewhere that 200+ of the 300 were on Bene and he gave up on that 75 yarder when we still had a chance to tie. Sounded like it was a tough call. I wish we hadn't released Lou Young. I know he was a hot head during practice but he looked to be making plays and maybe when he's playing other teams that would be a nice spark.
Also, I think you are a year off on the PFF rankings. I don't have a subscription there so I can't check but I thought he was highly rated in 2014 but near the bottom of slot receivers last year.
Dont forget he was the guy who completely ignored the FB on that 30 yard TD against Denver. I think it was a tough call but I think the coaches were not happy about his lack of effort. Not just being out of shape but kind of giving up against Julio.
NCCommish
Footballguy
I could be misremembering but as I recall he was one of the best slots on third down last year. Regardless that was then. If you are talking about the screen that was on TD. He is supposed to take that guy back to the QB and he let him go. TD has taken the responsibility for that play.
Is Young the one who got into all those fights with Funchess?
Different play. Bene was right in he hole when the FB for Denver ran for the 30 yard TD. That screen was CJ Anderson and that was on TD, he tried to run by Anderson and didn't realize it was designed to be a dump off he did. I remember TD saying he should have bull rushed. This was the play I was talking about: http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/08/watch-broncos-andy-janovichs-28-yard-touchdown-run-vs-panthers/
Yep on Young, he kept getting into scuffles but he kept getting INTs too. Norman got in a fight with Cam last year, didn't affect his play. Not saying Young was close to Norman, but I was hoping he would make it.
After tonight, I don't think we are long for the playoffs this year. With the west coast swings and having to play the Chiefs, Cardinals and Seattle, I'm not optimistic that we'll fix what is wrong. Let's fire up the 2017 thread and start discussing draft thoughts. I'm thinking 6-10 and pick 8.
1st round: Dalvin Cook RB/Cam Robinson OT
2nd round: Roderick Johnson OT/Nick Chubb RB
3rd round + 3rd round comp: 2 DEs
4th+: Big RB to replace Tolbert (someone who could actually make a block)/TE to replace Dickson (someone who could actually contribute on O)
1st round: Dalvin Cook RB/Cam Robinson OT
2nd round: Roderick Johnson OT/Nick Chubb RB
3rd round + 3rd round comp: 2 DEs
4th+: Big RB to replace Tolbert (someone who could actually make a block)/TE to replace Dickson (someone who could actually contribute on O)
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Such a fine line between winning and losing in the NFL. We could set the record for biggest fall off in a year.
Really bad coaching last night. Gifted Tampa that last FG by taking timeouts for them.
One thing is clear, the struggle to get plays off is clearly on Cam. DA seemed to get the team to the LOS with 20 seconds left on the play clock.
Really bad coaching last night. Gifted Tampa that last FG by taking timeouts for them.
One thing is clear, the struggle to get plays off is clearly on Cam. DA seemed to get the team to the LOS with 20 seconds left on the play clock.
