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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory


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Once the council blew Sam's idea of a democracy out of the water......the idea that one of the legitimate heirs of the Seven Kingdoms was to become King made the most sense.  To that, you have Sweet Robin (Eyrie), Bran (North), and Tyrion( West).  Gendry was a bastard legitmized by Dany...that doesn't count. There were no male heirs to the Iron Islands.  There were no heirs to The Reach.  There was no direct heir to Dorne.  The Riverlands aren't one of the Seven Kingdom( eliminating Edmure).

Tyrion isn't going to be King after the #### he pulled.

Sweet Robin.....noone wanted him anyway.

Bran......... sure he's a cripple. But he's a Stark and most people don't know how badly he checked out.  The reasons were stupid (this king has stories)......but Bran as the King isn't bad.  

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3 hours ago, bostonfred said:

There were five stark children plus Theon and Jon

Robb, the oldest, charged into battle but died because he chose himself over his honor. 

Rickon died because of theon

Theon was caught between two families and chose the wrong one, paid a steep price for betraying the stark family, almost died saving sansa then actually died saving bran

Sansa wanted to be queen then found out the hard way that it was horrible, but ultimately rules the north

Arya never wanted to be queen or part of any royal family, she wanted to learn how to fight. From the first episode, bran couldn't hit the target with an arrow and arya did. She avenged robb and saved the world and then when she was presented with an opportunity to be with gendry she said no and went out to explore the world on her own terms

Jon wanted to be a ranger, then he got to know the wildlings. He saved the night's watch from the wildlings, saved the wildlings from the night king, saved winterfell from ramsay and saved westeros from dany even though it cost him the throne. He went back to exactly where he wanted to be. 

Bran appeared to have had everything taken from him be the lannisters and ultimately became the wisest or at least most knowledgeable and he was the rightful heir. 

All of them had fully fleshed out arcs that made sense. They may have been rushed or you might not have wanted the ending you got but they all ended up exactly where they should have

Wow, that’s a long winded way of saying they all got somewhere. When did I ever say anything about the final position? I’m very well aware of what happened. I think you missed my point earlier. Bran ended up king, great. That still doesn’t answer why they just basically just wrapped up all that build up of John’s background into a who cares. The Night King destroys the wall at the end of the 7th season and is central to the entire story starting with the first scene. What do we get in last season? A dimly lit battle where somehow all the key folks live, the Dothraki and Unsullied armies appear to be wiped out only to find out they were just hiding for the next episode and about 1 minute of screen time where it all gets wrapped up in a bow so we can get in another quick battle and get to the really important last small council.

The rushing ruined the story telling. Feel free to keep trying to make it seem like they did a great job but the last season was universally panned. Look at ratings like rotten tomatoes. I’m not sure why that’s so hard to get. Some of the story arcs just ended or were forced to get to that ending. I don’t care as much about the end point but the last season was nowhere on the same level as the prior 7. I know there were issues with the 6th and 7th but they had some great parts and enough that I still really enjoyed them. 

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2 hours ago, Thunderlips said:

Once the council blew Sam's idea of a democracy out of the water......the idea that one of the legitimate heirs of the Seven Kingdoms was to become King made the most sense.  To that, you have Sweet Robin (Eyrie), Bran (North), and Tyrion( West).  Gendry was a bastard legitmized by Dany...that doesn't count. There were no male heirs to the Iron Islands.  There were no heirs to The Reach.  There was no direct heir to Dorne.  The Riverlands aren't one of the Seven Kingdom( eliminating Edmure).

Tyrion isn't going to be King after the #### he pulled.

Sweet Robin.....noone wanted him anyway.

Bran......... sure he's a cripple. But he's a Stark and most people don't know how badly he checked out.  The reasons were stupid (this king has stories)......but Bran as the King isn't bad.  

I’m not sure how my critique of them cutting off story lines became a John should be king over Bran. It was more of a hey there’s no way to give it the treatment it deserved so let’s just do a great Tyrion speech since everyone loved his trial (I did). Saves time and we can get to our Netflix money. It was like they just tried to ignore it. Same with the WWs. One battle scene and be done with it.

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7 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Wow, that’s a long winded way of saying they all got somewhere. When did I ever say anything about the final position? I’m very well aware of what happened. I think you missed my point earlier. Bran ended up king, great. That still doesn’t answer why they just basically just wrapped up all that build up of John’s background into a who cares. The Night King destroys the wall at the end of the 7th season and is central to the entire story starting with the first scene. What do we get in last season? A dimly lit battle where somehow all the key folks live, the Dothraki and Unsullied armies appear to be wiped out only to find out they were just hiding for the next episode and about 1 minute of screen time where it all gets wrapped up in a bow so we can get in another quick battle and get to the really important last small council.

The rushing ruined the story telling. Feel free to keep trying to make it seem like they did a great job but the last season was universally panned. Look at ratings like rotten tomatoes. I’m not sure why that’s so hard to get. Some of the story arcs just ended or were forced to get to that ending. I don’t care as much about the end point but the last season was nowhere on the same level as the prior 7. I know there were issues with the 6th and 7th but they had some great parts and enough that I still really enjoyed them. 

Fwiw...fred's been pretty clear he agrees the last season was rushed. His points above we're about disagreeing about the story arcs for the stark kids being unresolved.

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33 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

Fwiw...fred's been pretty clear he agrees the last season was rushed. His points above we're about disagreeing about the story arcs for the stark kids being unresolved.

Right and I think I’ve been pretty clear that I’m not complaining about the end point. I never said something was unresolved. One of my examples, Dany blowing up the city, was basically done to get Tyrion and John on board with killing her. Same with making sure Jamie got back to Cersei so that miraculously they died in rubble but were exposed enough to be found by Tyrion again. I’m ok that Dany went mad but it was the pace and doing things that didn’t make sense to get her there in 1 episode. Buried in there is Euron being the magic man to create the baddest ships ever built in a fortnight, killing a dragon and capturing Missandei. Another example of trying to wrap things up in again a fortnight.

I’ll stop complaining but I would have been fine with every result if we didn’t have the rush and TWD type sloppiness like Danny’s army just magically being alive after being wiped out or Dany forgetting about the Iron Fleet so that she loses a dragon.

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1 hour ago, stbugs said:

I’ll stop complaining but I would have been fine with every result if we didn’t have the rush and TWD type sloppiness like Danny’s army just magically being alive after being wiped out or Dany forgetting about the Iron Fleet so that she loses a dragon.

Right, I think that's what most people were saying. 

Take the ending of the movie Seven.  If instead of the cat and mouse and the build to the deserted location at the end where Brad Pitt's character flips out after finding out "what's in the box", they could have had Kevin Spacey just show up at Brad Pitt's apartment earlier in the movie, kill his wife and be like "kill me, wrath boy!"  I mean, at some level it's the same ending, but your complaint about it wouldn't be the result, it would be how stupidly the movie got there.

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25 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Just watched the battle where the dead stormed the castle.  Thought it was an awesome episode. 

Not entirely sure where Arya came from to jump 5 feet and land on the Night King, but all in all a damn good episode.  

Are the 20 main characters the only people still left alive?

A lot of people still alive but the armies were definitely crushed.  In the minutes right after the night king dies, you see the dead collapse but also some of the living armies that were losing make it out alive. 

Here's a couple older scenes that help with the arya thing

https://youtu.be/9bI6h_9K4s0 - I knew I'd seen that move before

https://youtu.be/DPJ399yxdJU - how did you sneak up on me

You can go back to season 1 and see her sneak up on someone in winterfell in the exact same spot, too. This is a very rewatchable show, especially the first 4 seasons. 

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On 9/18/2020 at 4:32 PM, Thunderlips said:

I can't defend the pact of the show at the end. I'm not going to even try. It shouldn't have been 6 episodes...or if it were...it should have been 2 hour long episodes.  I wonder though if that matters when one goes back and binge watches it.

Winter coming wasn't rushed aside though.  It was a build up from the prologue of the first episode of S1.  There had to be an ending to it.......besides that, it was never the central focus of the realm.  It was secondary story to the actual "Game of Thrones". 

I like where Jon ended up to. He grew somewhat as a character.....and I think the optimal path in life for him would have been if he "stayed in the cave" with Ygritte......but in the end, a man of the North (because he was a Stark to the core) ended up in the True North.  That's perfect.  

Well said.

I get some of the criticism of the last season and agree with much of it, but this idea that the White Walkers story ended too fast is bunk.  Everything built to a showdown between the Night King and the Army of the Dead against the living, which we got.  The living won.  I guess some wanted the Night King to kill everyone in the North (that battle only had two legit ways of ending: the Night King kills everyone in the North and moves South to go after them, or the living kill the Night King and win the war) and then go South and kill everyone there, too.  Yeah, that would have been a real fun finish, all of the living wiped out and the Night King sitting on the Iron Throne. :lol:

As for Jon, yep, that was the perfect ending for him.  Zero quibbles about that at all.

Edited by Ghost Rider
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1 hour ago, ghostguy123 said:

About to watch the series finale.

So far so great.  The final season has been awesome.  Is the finale so awful it ruins the entire 8 seasons or something?

IF you've been o.k. with the rest of the season, you'll probably be o.k. with the last episode.

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On 9/19/2020 at 12:25 PM, Sinn Fein said:

But the Targaryens lost the throne, and any hereditary rights.

Robert Baratheon took the throne.

Then Cersei Lannister took the throne.

Since Cersie's children all died before her, and her older sibling died with her, then Cersie's younger brother would have been next in line - All Hail King Tyrion!

And Tyrion wanted it to be Bran.  So it does kind of make sense.  They just botched the delivery in its entirety from Season 5 on (other than Season 6).

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6 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Gods. Kings. Fire. Blood.

 

@HouseOfDragon is coming to HBO Max in 2022.

 

Prequel - set 200 years before GOT - rise of the Targaryens

Trailer


all the things you loved about Game of Thrones!, but without all that great writing done by the fat old guy!

 

 

Personally I can’t wait. 

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8 minutes ago, Capella said:


all the things you loved about Game of Thrones!, but without all that great writing done by the fat old guy!

 

 

Personally I can’t wait. 

 

I'll wait for the book!@

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42 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Gods. Kings. Fire. Blood.

 

@HouseOfDragon is coming to HBO Max in 2022.

 

Prequel - set 200 years before GOT - rise of the Targaryens

Trailer

 

That is not the Rise of the Targaryens.  This would be 100+ years into their reign.  I would have rather seen something with Blood Raven or the Conquest than what this is supposedly based on.

So, HBO is calling the ending of Game of Thrones the Fall of the Throne now?  

I am not excited for this at all.  Which is disappointing, because had the producers not given up on the last few seasons of Thrones, I would be all over this.  Will I watch?  Maybe eventually?

 

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7 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

 

That is not the Rise of the Targaryens.  This would be 100+ years into their reign.  I would have rather seen something with Blood Raven or the Conquest than what this is supposedly based on.

So, HBO is calling the ending of Game of Thrones the Fall of the Throne now?  

I am not excited for this at all.  Which is disappointing, because had the producers not given up on the last few seasons of Thrones, I would be all over this.  Will I watch?  Maybe eventually?

 

This has different showrunners, doesn't it?

 

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1 minute ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

 

Yes.  I am just talking about the good will that was wasted by D&D.

Gotcha. If D&D were still involved, I'd have very little confidence this could be good. But I'm willing to take a wait-and-see approach here. I think the source material is tricky and can be easily flubbed, but has a chance.

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39 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

 

So, HBO is calling the ending of Game of Thrones the Fall of the Throne now?  

 

 

My immediate reaction was this is a reference to Robert's rebellion - the fall of the Targs.  I guess it could be either.

Regardless, of course I'm in.  I've been burned so many times by the formula -- high production costs + terrible writing = crap show -- but will never learn from it.

 

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2 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

I'm so in, have you seen the #### being produced these days? Even if you #### this up it will still be better than most anything on TV today.

huh. there's some pretty solid tv out there on TV today.

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I loved the Lord of the Ring movies, watched them all and even liked the ending.  For some reason, I just could not force myself to watch the Hobbit movies.  I felt like my time in Middle Earth was done.

I loved Game of Thrones up until that final season.  I won't reopen the debate here but the final season (to me) was rushed and ended up in some places that I think "the old fat guy" will correct if he ends up finishing the story.  If I couldn't go back to Middle Earth liking how they ended that franchise, I don't think I'll venture back here with a bad taste still in my mouth.  Who knows though, if it gets good reviews perhaps I'll get sucked back in.

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I’m in but it will be treated like any other show that I give a chance, as basically a clean slate. They squandered all the GoT investment I had, so this show will have to stand on its own merits and come out of the gate strong with some good writing and acting.

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Kind of odd, to me, that folks could have thoroughly enjoyed the show for 6 years or whatever and be so totally repulsed by it now because of how it ended. It wasn’t a great ending, probably was bad, but didn’t ruin the rest of the show for me and certainly won’t stop me from watching another series.  

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1 minute ago, Capella said:

Kind of odd, to me, that folks could have thoroughly enjoyed the show for 6 years or whatever and be so totally repulsed by it now because of how it ended. It wasn’t a great ending, probably was bad, but didn’t ruin the rest of the show for me and certainly won’t stop me from watching another series.  

 

Because it rendered much of the prior story as pointless.

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Just now, Leeroy Jenkins said:

 

Because it rendered much of the prior story as pointless.

How? I rewatched it and it was still very enjoyable. I’m not going to let 60 very good episodes be ruined by 3-4 ones. 

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3 minutes ago, Corporation said:

I loved the Lord of the Ring movies, watched them all and even liked the ending.  For some reason, I just could not force myself to watch the Hobbit movies.  I felt like my time in Middle Earth was done.

I loved Game of Thrones up until that final season.  I won't reopen the debate here but the final season (to me) was rushed and ended up in some places that I think "the old fat guy" will correct if he ends up finishing the story.  If I couldn't go back to Middle Earth liking how they ended that franchise, I don't think I'll venture back here with a bad taste still in my mouth.  Who knows though, if it gets good reviews perhaps I'll get sucked back in.

You didn’t miss anything with the Hobbit movies. The first was okay, the 2nd had some good parts but started to show cracks in the foundation, and the 3rd was an abomination. I only wish I had known about all their production problems and studio interference and budget issues that plagued the making of the Hobbit trilogy before I saw them. I would have kept my expectations much lower.

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6 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

huh. there's some pretty solid tv out there on TV today.

There is.   I think what jades my opinion a tad is that people gush over TV now, or say we are living in the golden age for TV.   Quantity?  sure.   Quality?  Nah.      As much as I love shows like The Expanse, Atypical, etc..  there is nothing out there that I've seen that touches stuff like BB, The Wire, S1-S4 of GOT, etc..    Mostly it's just background fodder for me that I never seem to have a great desire to finish.    

I am not the most avid show watcher around these parts, so I will fully admit that I might be missing some great TV.  

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4 minutes ago, Capella said:

How? I rewatched it and it was still very enjoyable. I’m not going to let 60 very good episodes be ruined by 3-4 ones. 

There is where we differ.  I think it was far more than just 3-4 bad episodes.   IMO I have it reversed and Season 5 on had 4-6 great episodes but the rest was meh.    I think there is a distinct difference in quality between S1-S4 and S5-S8.   

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13 minutes ago, Buckna said:

I’m in but it will be treated like any other show that I give a chance, as basically a clean slate. They squandered all the GoT investment I had, so this show will have to stand on its own merits and come out of the gate strong with some good writing and acting.

 

This is kind of where I'm at.

Its not logical to immediately hate it just because of how the two morons botched the GOT ending. They're gone and not coming back. But they dont have Martin's writing to build off of here, so that's a strike against them. And I have a feeling this is gonna be a lot of "OMG!!! DRAGONS!!!!!1111" that the masses ate up and not nearly as much of the character development  (with some big OMG moments mixed in....with proper build up) that made the early seasons of the first show great.

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9 minutes ago, TLEF316 said:

 

This is kind of where I'm at.

Its not logical to immediately hate it just because of how the two morons botched the GOT ending. They're gone and not coming back. But they dont have Martin's writing to build off of here, so that's a strike against them. And I have a feeling this is gonna be a lot of "OMG!!! DRAGONS!!!!!1111" that the masses ate up and not nearly as much of the character development  (with some big OMG moments mixed in....with proper build up) that made the early seasons of the first show great.

 

Does Martin have any role in this?  I think some parts of this story is addressed in ASOIF. There's a backstory there.

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It appears I posted in this thread sometime but had mostly avoided it for years as I didn't watch much of the TV show.  Loved the books and was just hoping and praying Martin would do something but I've given up.  I have HBO now and I'm going to go back and watch the whole thing.  It appears there's a lot of complaints about the final season(s) but that won't sway me - I'm still happy I watched Lost through the end.  Wish me luck.

Edited by AAABatteries
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19 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

It appears I posted in this thread sometime but had mostly avoided it for years as I didn't watch much of the TV show.  Loved the books and was just hoping and praying Martin would do something but I've given up.  I have HBO now and I'm going to go back and watch the whole thing.  It appears there's a lot of complaints about the final season(s) but that won't sway me - I'm still happy I watched Lost through the end.  Wish me luck.

Despite the ending it's a good watch. Even the ending. 

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44 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

There is where we differ.  I think it was far more than just 3-4 bad episodes.   IMO I have it reversed and Season 5 on had 4-6 great episodes but the rest was meh.    I think there is a distinct difference in quality between S1-S4 and S5-S8.   

Yea I guess. I pretty much enjoyed it all. I get people being disappointed with the last season but I really liked it all until that. Different strokes and all that. 

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24 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

It appears I posted in this thread sometime but had mostly avoided it for years as I didn't watch much of the TV show.  Loved the books and was just hoping and praying Martin would do something but I've given up.  I have HBO now and I'm going to go back and watch the whole thing.  It appears there's a lot of complaints about the final season(s) but that won't sway me - I'm still happy I watched Lost through the end.  Wish me luck.

envious- have fun!

writing tails off a bit coinciding with leaving the source material, which makes some of the later seasons drop from the really high heights of the earlier ones. still a great show and fun to watch.

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26 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

 

Does Martin have any role in this?  I think some parts of this story is addressed in ASOIF. There's a backstory there.

I think he’s only tangentially involved with the show as a producer but this is based on one of his prequel stories/histories books that came out a few years ago. HBO commissioned like 5 different series with different settings and time periods, nixed a couple at the pilot writing stage and then killed a few others along the way until which show idea was left that they felt had the strongest chance. Even then, I think they reshot the pilot on this one (which is not unusual, first GoT had cast changes and a reshot pilot too and tons of other successful shows.)

Cast looks strong, Matt Smith in particular standing out.

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36 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

 

Does Martin have any role in this?  I think some parts of this story is addressed in ASOIF. There's a backstory there.

 

There are also broad strokes in the World of Ice and Fire book and the one just about the Targs.  Both were supposed to read like history books really (I have not read them).

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1 hour ago, Corporation said:

I loved the Lord of the Ring movies, watched them all and even liked the ending.  For some reason, I just could not force myself to watch the Hobbit movies.  I felt like my time in Middle Earth was done.

We got to the part where the party was trapped by goblins in a cave exactly halfway through the first movie.  We never did go back.

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So, what exactly is the point of this show going to be?  We know what the history holds for this world.  This sort of feels like it could be a redemption arc for Daenerys and the prior show-runners - where we learn that all the Targaryens were capable of madness.... so it wasn't really her fault...

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1 hour ago, CletiusMaximus said:

 

Does Martin have any role in this?  I think some parts of this story is addressed in ASOIF. There's a backstory there.

 

He wrote a book on the backstory for the Targ dynasty, but it was more like an encyclopedia than a novel.  A lot of the dialog people loved and got hooked on from the first few seasons of the show was lifted almost verbatim out of his books.  So this show won't have the benefit of that detailed, prewritten material to draw from.

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19 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

So, what exactly is the point of this show going to be?  We know what the history holds for this world.  This sort of feels like it could be a redemption arc for Daenerys and the prior show-runners - where we learn that all the Targaryens were capable of madness.... so it wasn't really her fault...

 

We pretty much knew this already though.  Book readers for sure, but I think that point was driven home pretty well in the show if I recall - Targaryens are a spicy bunch, prone to madness, love firey death and destruction.

 

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1 minute ago, CletiusMaximus said:

 

We pretty much knew this already though.  Book readers for sure, but I think that point was driven home pretty well in the show if I recall - Targaryens are a spicy bunch, prone to madness, love firey death and destruction.

 

 

Yeah - but everyone was still mad that Daenerys turned heel - even when you could point out all the steps along the way where she was showing signs...

 

I will watch this - but not sure I understand the point of a story that took place in a world 200 years prior to the world we know - unless it ties into the future world somehow.

 

Is Bran going to be in the show - or some version of him?

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

There is where we differ.  I think it was far more than just 3-4 bad episodes.   IMO I have it reversed and Season 5 on had 4-6 great episodes but the rest was meh.    I think there is a distinct difference in quality between S1-S4 and S5-S8.   

 

We all seem to agree the quality tailed off toward the end.  Like BDK's Prince of Darkness era, I act like Season 8 didn't exist.  

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