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The personal filing would be wrapped up in the same filing with the LLC. It is likely he has credit card debt and possibly even Phenom's business loans that he personally signed for if he was a gambler in debt. Additionally, he would be a fool to not file personal bankruptcy, because it would open him up to civil disputes from the 1000's of people he just ticked off.
Please stop, you have no clue what you're talking about. A class action lawsuit will be for everyone who paid money to Phenoms this year they will not seek out only the prize winners.Read my next comment...I've basically written off this thing in my mind, and whatever I get I get.Do you really think chargebacks will diminish a settlement pool? If you do I have a great FF team I want to sell you on a site called Phenoms. Even if there is a settlement pool it will go to everyone, not just the winners...so look for your $5 check in about 3 years.I was getting to you...
I actually have one of my leagues that is in the same situation. Realistically, at 1-4 start, how would the outcome have changed? How many 1-4 starting teams end up making the playoffs in this format?
Look, everyone can come up with a hundred different variables in this. I've seen guys in Omega leagues who were eliminated in week 11 talking about doing chargebacks and getting their $ back....why? You lost the dang thing 4 weeks before the announcement hit.
We can come with 1,000 different variables and rationalizations. At the end of the day, we're all likely going to get screwed. I just don't think it's ethical that guys are trying to dilute what may be an already miniscule settlement pool for people who were legitimately hosed, by charging back for leagues to recover funds where they received the service, played the league for the full year and finished out of the $. Unless they somehow pay those funds to the prize winners of the leagues.
The bankruptcy claims will be made by the creditors, not the players. The prize winners are the creditors. Players are the customers.
To be honest, this is a pretty grey area and under the bankruptcy laws this may not be the case.
Oh, if I was gonna bet on that, I would bet he doesn't either. Because of the system, not because of what he hasn't done.
There are 20 pages in this thread on whether or not Mike will have criminal charges. Some think it is a sure thing, I do not believe he will be held criminally liable.
Hey, I get it that you're extremely butt hurt over this and I'm not because I don't have a dog in the fight (e.g., I wasn't an idiot and didn't get raped by this guy by giving away money blindly) so I'll concede I didn't post and do a line-by-line of my thoughts with explicit counter points to statements. I admit, I often expect people to be able to read between the lines and understand the sentiment of the entire statement and not get hung up on point A- sub-paragraph 1.23d of every word typed and, in general, not to get so technical about every little thing.FatUncleJerryBuss said:
Well if that extra 400K went towards his salary, the IRS might have something to say about that, unless all of his filings are in order.
Good analogy and it underscores a lot about what people are upset about here in that, bottom line, just like many foolish companies do with their Board and elected officials, THEY MADE A MISTAKE AND TRUSTED THE WRONG PERSON. That is the source of the problem. That is what happened here. It isn't the first time it happened and it won't be the last but, like you say, when you look around, you don't see a lot of these guys have significant legal issues arise out of doing nothing more than being trusted when they shouldn't have been, went unchecked, and took money at other's expense. It happens every day.
That has nothing at all to do with 'how our democracy is setup'. Stick to the football talk and don't bring in things you clearly don't understand.
I don't think it's that simple. Sure, he had the right to do whatever with the percent he took as his fee and whatever loans and credit he got.
If this was indeed fraud, then everyone is a victim, so you should just cool it with the misdirected anger. The money lost is equal to the money put in (entry fees) if there never was a chance to win anything. The prize money for 1st place is not an "economic loss" because it was never yours. It was never going to be anybody's, so trying to claim that money just comes off a crass.
Right. Who's going to put, or attempt to put him there?
No, you are guilty of being an uneducated investor, uneducated meaning you didn't do your homework and kick the rocks on a guy you gave money to that you didn't know.
The court will decide whether it was Phenom's intent to pay out the winnings. With a history of the company doing so, I wouldn't see why it would be different this year. I honestly believe it was not Mike's intent to defraud his customers. Otherwise, he would have just taken the money and ran. Why send any type of communication that would only stir controversy? You take the money and run. And get as far away from the crime scene as possible.
Yes, you are right. Can't wait to rent Bad Lieutenant though, looks like a fantastic movie.
It is football talk in that it relates directly to the Phenoms incident. Sorry you disagree with the CEO pay thing...I am comfortable in my position.
Very good question. Federal law doesn't classify fantasy sports as gambling, but not sure about state law.
No, we've already come to the conclusion that they are all screwed. Question is whether or not he will eventually be screwed as well.
Not completely true. There are federal exceptions which allow certain types of fantasy sports activities, but they must meet certain guidelines. Different courts in different states interpret these same laws very different, some allowing this type of activity and others not. Also some states have made up additional rules. Not cut and dry by any means.
I agree...very similar to what the CEO's did when the stock market crashed, filed Bankruptcy then walked away with million dollar bonuses.
Actually, Im not emotional about it and not looking for safety in numbers.
I found this...not sure what to make of it except that they are very anti gambling
It's muddy for sure.
You know he had a gambling addiction? And you also think he blew $400k+ on it? That's quite a leap.
if you really want to muddy it up some more, he wasn't selling Fantasy Football, he was selling a facilitation service to bring Fantasy Football Players together........
my thoughts too.
doesn't paul carchian run league safe or own it or something? he's on the radio up here all the time, has a weekly four hour fantasy show on a state wide radio station (and he was before leaguesafe came around). Seems like he would have a lot more to lose than this guy.
It's known that he was a big gambler, he was very open about it on his twitter account. It's not uncommon for someone to get into a hole and pull money from other places thinking they can get out of it, only to get in deeper.
You're an #######. Everyone who played Phenoms knowingly accepted the risk associated with entrusting their money to another individual. That doesn't mean that when they are defrauded by that individual we don't have the right to be upset or to try to take legal action to recover that money. Nobody is suggesting that there weren't risks, and nobody is suggesting that this outcome wasn't a possibility from the start. People are just trying to recover what is rightfully theirs. To have you act like we are all fools is really in poor taste, especially when some people posting here have lost thousands of dollars.Chemical X said:
As a loser of the single $100 league that I played in, I think it's pretty clear that the "right" thing to do if I were refunded any money would be to send it to the winners of my league. They aren't at fault for Mike's actions, the league would not have played out any differently if Mike didn't steal the money. They won my money fair and square, and I wouldn't feel right keeping any money refunded to me.
