The Iguana
Footballguy
I have this problem too but I relate it to getting older more than any particular exercise!
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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (13 Viewers)
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
OK, I mainly suggested that since you described the pain as "mild". For me, mild pains arise all the time. It's not something to make me stop running. It's more something that I will monitor and perhaps try to figure out some stretches or work on some imbalances that might help. I've also had a lot of injuries over the years that seem to get better a handful of miles into a run when I've fully loosened up. I know it's harder to figure this out when you're a less frequent runner and may only go for a mile or two for the whole run.
I was wondering if you might be being overly cautious. Honestly, I don't know. Without question, that can be a difficult assessment to make.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Ego sucks in running.
Knowing that my easy runs were in the mid to low 9's (and could still run comfortably in the 8's) when I was in better shape, I've stubbornly tried to run on the lower end of that with runs in the 9:30-9:40 range. And I've continued to struggle even at that speed. But no way am I going to run even slower than that when I know I should be able to run faster.
Well, I finally told my ego to just chill out and run as slow as it takes to keep it easy. First 3 miles today all around 10:00 and it just felt so much better. It's crazy how even the 20-30 second difference matters so much even at that pace for me. I want to say it's embarrassing but it's not, at all, because it's just where I am now and I've been an idiot the entire last week trying to be in a spot where I'm not.
Anyway, first run I've enjoyed in a while. On top of that, my legs just haven't felt right all week. Lower legs just feeling stiff and aching for runs and feeling tight afterward. Combination of weight gain with time off and decreased stretching along with obvious lack of running. Today, the legs finally felt good and loose from the start and finally have that good feeling when I'm done. Still a long ways to go and nothing that exciting, but it's just a reminder of how strong you have to be mentally, even with simple stuff like easy runs for miles, in order to succeed and improve. Looking at where I am now, I'm a little more impressed with my recent 15K race pace and finish.
Major snowfall predicted for tonight here so you might actually see a real snow run from me this weekend!!
Knowing that my easy runs were in the mid to low 9's (and could still run comfortably in the 8's) when I was in better shape, I've stubbornly tried to run on the lower end of that with runs in the 9:30-9:40 range. And I've continued to struggle even at that speed. But no way am I going to run even slower than that when I know I should be able to run faster.
Well, I finally told my ego to just chill out and run as slow as it takes to keep it easy. First 3 miles today all around 10:00 and it just felt so much better. It's crazy how even the 20-30 second difference matters so much even at that pace for me. I want to say it's embarrassing but it's not, at all, because it's just where I am now and I've been an idiot the entire last week trying to be in a spot where I'm not.
Anyway, first run I've enjoyed in a while. On top of that, my legs just haven't felt right all week. Lower legs just feeling stiff and aching for runs and feeling tight afterward. Combination of weight gain with time off and decreased stretching along with obvious lack of running. Today, the legs finally felt good and loose from the start and finally have that good feeling when I'm done. Still a long ways to go and nothing that exciting, but it's just a reminder of how strong you have to be mentally, even with simple stuff like easy runs for miles, in order to succeed and improve. Looking at where I am now, I'm a little more impressed with my recent 15K race pace and finish.
Major snowfall predicted for tonight here so you might actually see a real snow run from me this weekend!!
gruecd
Footballguy
Good. Let me know if you have any connections for tickets.Heck yeah.
My uncle who lives in Wausau is probably going to come down also, so I will definitely be cooking and tailgating.
gruecd
Footballguy
I like them, if only because they help break up the monotony.
Had absolutely no problem with the workout, by the way. Has to be a good sign this early in the training cycle.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Yeah, you kept at it pretty well between cycles so you should be able to build on your success from last year!
Are you going to run that indoor half marathon at Pettit?
ChiefD
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
It's intriguing, and I could probably get a free entry, but that's a recovery week for me, and I'm only scheduled for 11 that day. So I'd say it's probably unlikely.
JAA
Footballguy
Odd - While looking at my strava this morning I noticed someone from my FFA club biked the same Zwift route that someone from my local bike club rode. I was wondering if the knew each other IRL and preferred not to try and figure it out. I need to make sure those worlds don’t collide. 
JAA
Footballguy
Awesome work. There is so much mental in this it’s crazy. Our bodies want to be lazy, frankly we have evolved to be lazy. Our minds have been thought that food is scarce, there is no medicine and we need to conserve. In this day in age that isn’t longer true. However, we are fighting evolution.gianmarco said:
When I get into those ruts like you have deceived above, the ego ruts, I try to change things up. Like if I’m focusing on longer distance and lower intensity to now insert some shorter distance and higher intensity. I find that helps my mind to clear and change its focus.
I know you guys have your running plans, but when I bring these mental things up to my coach, he is all about changing it up. He focuses a lot on the metal health making sure it’s still enjoyable.
Good luck
tri-man 47
Footballguy
I like this routine: Mrs. Tri and I planned to spend the day helping son and DIL with a few tasks around their house and to spend some time with our two grandsons. So I left at 8 am and ran to their place, which is 13+ miles mostly due west of us. Much of the run is on paved/gravel trail. 30 degrees, so rather cool, but the slight east wind was behind me, and the start of a light snowfall after a couple miles led to a quiet, peaceful run. Early afternoon, when the three-month old was due for a good nap, they assigned me the chore of chilling out with him. So I spent 90 minutes snuggling with little grand-Tri, napping myself for an hour of it and resting from the run.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
That is awesome.I like this routine: Mrs. Tri and I planned to spend the day helping son and DIL with a few tasks around their house and to spend some time with our two grandsons. So I left at 8 am and ran to their place, which is 13+ miles mostly due west of us. Much of the run is on paved/gravel trail. 30 degrees, so rather cool, but the slight east wind was behind me, and the start of a light snowfall after a couple miles led to a quiet, peaceful run. Early afternoon, when the three-month old was due for a good nap, they assigned me the chore of chilling out with him. So I spent 90 minutes snuggling with little grand-Tri, napping myself for an hour of it and resting from the run.
gianmarco
Footballguy
You can run here and snuggle with my 3 year old anytime you want.I like this routine: Mrs. Tri and I planned to spend the day helping son and DIL with a few tasks around their house and to spend some time with our two grandsons. So I left at 8 am and ran to their place, which is 13+ miles mostly due west of us. Much of the run is on paved/gravel trail. 30 degrees, so rather cool, but the slight east wind was behind me, and the start of a light snowfall after a couple miles led to a quiet, peaceful run. Early afternoon, when the three-month old was due for a good nap, they assigned me the chore of chilling out with him. So I spent 90 minutes snuggling with little grand-Tri, napping myself for an hour of it and resting from the run.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Lol, Jesus....
So the joke was initially going to be that he could also snuggle with me instead. And then I just took it out as I figured that'd be too much. And after taking that back out, I didn't realize how much worse that came out without it.
Yikes.
No, you cannot snuggle with my kids, you perverts. But I'm still game.
Ok, I'll just stop now.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Just messing with you GB. I think you and Tri-man should snuggle like Ross and Joey did on Friends. Post pics please.
gruecd
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
Sooooo....friend of mine just asked if I'd like to pace 3:35 at Green Bay on May 19. It's tempting, especially since I was already planning on being up there to cheer for my neighbors and possibly my wife (if she decides to actually run). Plus this race has some significance to me. It was my first-ever marathon way back in 2004 and my first BQ (2007). The last time I ran it was 2010, so it's been a minute.
The only thing holding me back is that I'm running back-to-back marathons in early spring (Carmel on 3/30 and then Boston on 4/15), and then I'm doing Ice Age Trail 50K with a buddy of mine on 5/11. It'll be my buddy's first-ever ultramarathon, so I definitely won't be racing, and I imagine there will be lots of hiking/walking, but still.....50K is 50K. It'll be a lot of time on my feet.
Bottom line, I'm not sure about pacing the marathon 7 days later. I've done it before, running 3:03 at the Erie Marathon back in 2014 and then pacing 3:35 at Fox Cities a week later, and I'm probably in better shape now.
I told her that I'd let her know in a day or two. Thoughts?
The only thing holding me back is that I'm running back-to-back marathons in early spring (Carmel on 3/30 and then Boston on 4/15), and then I'm doing Ice Age Trail 50K with a buddy of mine on 5/11. It'll be my buddy's first-ever ultramarathon, so I definitely won't be racing, and I imagine there will be lots of hiking/walking, but still.....50K is 50K. It'll be a lot of time on my feet.
Bottom line, I'm not sure about pacing the marathon 7 days later. I've done it before, running 3:03 at the Erie Marathon back in 2014 and then pacing 3:35 at Fox Cities a week later, and I'm probably in better shape now.
I told her that I'd let her know in a day or two. Thoughts?
gruecd
Footballguy
Unrelated...in a situation like this where you're an official entrant but you're not racing, would it be a ##### move to slice the timing chip off the back of one's bib?
JShare87
Footballguy
That sounds crazy, but you’re the only one that knows your body. If you think you can do it, do it.
Zasada
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I decided to stick with the Carmel, Indiana marathon March 30 instead of choosing an earlier one. Hopefully I can stay in a good groove until then.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
If you do this you might end up with an official DNF on Ultrasignup. That will be figured in when voters consider their ballots for 2019 Ultrarunner of the Year. There go all your shoe, hydration, lube, and sweat towel sponsorship opportunities. No free entries and travel stipends to European races. YouTube views will plummet. Instagram trolls will be relentless. That marathon cheater guy might even start investigating you. You’ll end up wandering along a trail, squishing in your shoes, mumbling to yourself and anyone else who will listen about what could have been.
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gruecd
Footballguy
tri-man 47
Footballguy
I think it's a rather bad idea ...too risky, and too much pressure hanging over you on the three big runs preceding GB.gruecd said:
And if you don't want the "bad" 50K time on your record, why not just register under a slight variation of your name? (E.g., just use the C ...or use BMF Gxxxxxx). Unless you've already registered. It would be a rather xxxx move.
---
And @gianmarco, I took your snuggle comment as a purely innocent quip. Now if we were talking foot massages ...
JAA
Footballguy
So ive been trying this nose-and-mouf BMF breathing. Its definitely harder to do at slower pace. I still need to practice as it seems its easy for me to slip into the diaphragm breathing instead of belly. Gonna be a while for me, good thing I have like 7 more months until my A race.
PS - it kinda sux that I I have different breathing in swimming obviously. It would be a lot easier to be consistent across all disciplines.
PS - it kinda sux that I I have different breathing in swimming obviously. It would be a lot easier to be consistent across all disciplines.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Been on a roll lately.
W of 12/17 - only 24 miles, but done at a net 7:25 pace and lifted 3x.
W of 12/24 - 37 miles on just 5 days of running, 8 mi @ 7:02 pace one day, deload week so only lifted twice. Still more than I expected given our xmas schedule.
W of 12/31 - up to 42 miles, but screwed up my schedule and only lifted twice - weight room closed early the 3rd day and I didn't check ahead of time. The 10 miles @ 7:13 pace new year's day was a nice surprise.
W of 1/7 - back down to 36 miles, but my best (overall) week in a long time. Best strength week since summer 2017, 8 miles @ 6:40 pace Tuesday, and 9 miles yesterday on snow/mud covered trails - net 8:24 pace and 7:50something the final 5. As a comp I raced a 10K here 3 years ago in similar conditions and also barely held under 8 min pace but never came anywhere near racing effort yesterday. Probably progressed to about 80% tempo miles 5 and 6 then mostly held it there - at least as well as you can on trails.
---
Weather forecast is telling me this is probably a cutback week running, so I'm gonna focus on strength and see if I can progress even further from last week's peak. Overall, ahead of schedule and if I maintain I may fast track my planned March/April cut and start it in February instead. But I also get an unseasonably warm December/January has played a role and that's about to change.
W of 12/17 - only 24 miles, but done at a net 7:25 pace and lifted 3x.
W of 12/24 - 37 miles on just 5 days of running, 8 mi @ 7:02 pace one day, deload week so only lifted twice. Still more than I expected given our xmas schedule.
W of 12/31 - up to 42 miles, but screwed up my schedule and only lifted twice - weight room closed early the 3rd day and I didn't check ahead of time. The 10 miles @ 7:13 pace new year's day was a nice surprise.
W of 1/7 - back down to 36 miles, but my best (overall) week in a long time. Best strength week since summer 2017, 8 miles @ 6:40 pace Tuesday, and 9 miles yesterday on snow/mud covered trails - net 8:24 pace and 7:50something the final 5. As a comp I raced a 10K here 3 years ago in similar conditions and also barely held under 8 min pace but never came anywhere near racing effort yesterday. Probably progressed to about 80% tempo miles 5 and 6 then mostly held it there - at least as well as you can on trails.
---
Weather forecast is telling me this is probably a cutback week running, so I'm gonna focus on strength and see if I can progress even further from last week's peak. Overall, ahead of schedule and if I maintain I may fast track my planned March/April cut and start it in February instead. But I also get an unseasonably warm December/January has played a role and that's about to change.
gianmarco
Footballguy
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Brony
Footballguy
sorry for delay - long weekend in NYC focusing on bars, not on running or FFA.
I worked with my PT on changing the form over time. I spent a lot of time just working on the motion of driving knees up in a standing position. The initial focus was on quickly getting foot off ground while focusing the foot motion where, for example, my right heel would trace the line of my left leg. Second exercise was working on balance and leaning forward and getting comfortable with the idea of falling forward. Third exercise was leaning forward and then right at point of falling I would lift left or right leg quickly off ground. I did some running in place while held with a rubber exercise band around a door frame. I don't remember that helping that much.
Once running though, focus is just on moving the foot up along the path of the opposite leg. The knee action is simply an outcome of that. Speed is then a function of how much you lean forward. You can do more of a running in place motion to keep paces manageable. Cadence shouldn't change much. At least, that is the concept. I've found that to really take advantage of the lean and gravity concept, I'm going pretty fast for me (both cadence and min/mile).
JAA
Footballguy
This came up when I watched the 100 link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpClwXjDqro
Entertaining ...
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Well, that was disappointing.JAA said:
ChiefD
Footballguy
So.....looks like this weekend will force me inside for the first time in my running career. Sunday morning we are supposed to be in the negative digits with snow on the ground and it will simply not be safe for me to run 10 miles outside.
I have a local community center where I can buy a day pass, so I think that is the plan. So would you rather:
a. Run 10 miles on a treadmill
b. Run 100 laps of a .10 mile indoor track
I'm leaning toward b at this point, if only for the fact I can look around and see other people. Might make it less mind-numbing.
I have a local community center where I can buy a day pass, so I think that is the plan. So would you rather:
a. Run 10 miles on a treadmill
b. Run 100 laps of a .10 mile indoor track
I'm leaning toward b at this point, if only for the fact I can look around and see other people. Might make it less mind-numbing.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
It depends if you are the kind of person that can watch youtube videos, TV shows, or movies on the treadmill. I am, so I would actually choose "a".
Any longer than 10 miles though and I would probably switch to an audiobook and choose "b". But a ~200m track is pretty short and you might get tired of always turning left/right.
MAC_32
Footballguy
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
C. Get the 10 miler in on the roads before the weekend (assuming the weather isn’t as bad until then).
I moved my LR from Sunday to Monday last week because of weather.
The Iguana
Footballguy
Good question. I've been running on a treadmill a lot lately. Have done it before, never been a huge fan but getting used to it now, a little. There are some things I more or less like about it but would completely prefer to be out on the road. I've actually looked at a couple of options for running on an indoor track instead but haven't tried it yet. I recall running a couple of indoor track meets back in high school and running the 2 mile on a tiny track where you were basically always running through a corner pretty much sucked.
I actually have found running on the treadmill at the Y where I can look around - either people watch or bounce between a couple of TV screens - to not be too unbearable. I haven't tried to do 10 miles - usually do about 5 +/-. I'd like to try running on the indoor track but the one at my local Y isn't really a track - basically a path around the basketball courts but usually people have gear in the way so running isn't really feasible. There is another one that is a bit more of a drive but haven't ventured there yet.
I actually have found running on the treadmill at the Y where I can look around - either people watch or bounce between a couple of TV screens - to not be too unbearable. I haven't tried to do 10 miles - usually do about 5 +/-. I'd like to try running on the indoor track but the one at my local Y isn't really a track - basically a path around the basketball courts but usually people have gear in the way so running isn't really feasible. There is another one that is a bit more of a drive but haven't ventured there yet.
MAC_32
Footballguy
As badly as I ####ed up early January marathon training last year, I couldn't have gotten back on track had I stuck to the weekend long run schedule. If mother nature said no then I listened - half of my Jan/Feb long runs were sometime during the week.
Brony
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
Been feeling the same about the indoor bike lately. Would prefer to be on the road but with darkness and chill, that's just not in the cards right now. Really enjoying working on power, I have a ways to go but I'll take it for now.
Zwift guys - do you know if I can hook up the tour de France with zwift? I'm enjoying doing my own thing but zwift looks fun.
Think I answered my own question:
The following is a list of trainers and devices that are not supported:
Tour de France Bike - Doesn't transmit wattage.
Pretty sure that's why the dude sold it.
I like it anyway.
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ChiefD
Footballguy
Yeah, this was a thought as well. The problem is I have to do 5 Friday, 6 Saturday, and 10 Sunday. We are supposed to get a cold rain here starting after work on Friday, followed by 3-5" of snow starting about midnight. So my 6 miler is dicey as well. But that one would be similar to my 6 miler last Saturday that was done in 6" of fallen snow.
Tomorrow is my rest day, so that may be the 10 miler. But man, I really want to stick to the progression of this Hanson plan as much as possible. And a 10 miler sandwiched between two speed workouts is probably not a good idea.
Too much thinking. Ugh.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Are you off work Monday? Could always do the 10 then.Yeah, this was a thought as well. The problem is I have to do 5 Friday, 6 Saturday, and 10 Sunday. We are supposed to get a cold rain here starting after work on Friday, followed by 3-5" of snow starting about midnight. So my 6 miler is dicey as well. But that one would be similar to my 6 miler last Saturday that was done in 6" of fallen snow.
Tomorrow is my rest day, so that may be the 10 miler. But man, I really want to stick to the progression of this Hanson plan as much as possible. And a 10 miler sandwiched between two speed workouts is probably not a good idea.
Too much thinking. Ugh.
ChiefD
Footballguy
This one would happen after my son's 8am OUTDOOR hockey game.
Maybe I should run around the rink for an hour and a half (actually not a bad idea)
ChiefD
Footballguy
ChiefD
Footballguy
I guess one option is to do an easy run tomorrow. Normally a rest day, so maybe 6 miles. That would be my Saturday run.
Do my Friday 5 miler in the rain, which should be no big deal. And then do my 10 miler in the snow Saturday morning when the temps are still in the 20's. That is manageable.
Then Sunday is my rest day in front of the fire getting loaded before the Chiefs playoff game.
Do my Friday 5 miler in the rain, which should be no big deal. And then do my 10 miler in the snow Saturday morning when the temps are still in the 20's. That is manageable.
Then Sunday is my rest day in front of the fire getting loaded before the Chiefs playoff game.
MAC_32
Footballguy
But what you're describing is why I never went further than utilizing hanson concepts - if i could stick with it, cool. But the every other day structure just isn't feasible in winter unless you're willing to go inside. As I've made it painfully obvious in here I avoid doing that at all costs. That's why I bounced between sorta hanson, kinda higdon, and just winging it.
I wouldn't be as excited about this if I were marathon training, but I hope I can get out and run in this storm. We're supposed to get clobbered. I think more effort is required for 3 miles in this sorta stuff than most hard weekday runs amidst marathon training.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Assuming GPS wouldn't work inside, I'd pick the treadmill. I'd surely forget how many laps I'd done.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Yeah, my legs are in a way different place right now.
My 800m repeats today will not be on a snow covered track but rather a half mile stretch in front of my kids school that is not real flat. Should be entertaining.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
We have snow and then cold this weekend so I'll probably have to do a long run on the treadmill. I'm actually a bit excited internally debating how I might want to pace it.
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