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Dynasty & Redraft: RB Derrick Henry, Titans


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Oh hell no I ain’t reading that 

there is no presser on Saturday. There are usually guessers on ff sites- because that's what we want them to do- but don't leap like it's news.  Jim Wyatt will absolutely have ya covered here. He

Derrick Henry going 99 yards while stiff-arming people into the sun weeks after everyone who drafted him cut him, traded him or vowed never to start him again is the most Derrick Henry thing ever.

@ShanePHallam

You can see why Derrick Henry always falls forward, that is a fast load to tackle. He may not be super agile, but impossible to tackle.
 
@ShanePHallam
 
I can understand the knocks on Henry, but I still really like him. One on one, he will win with power AND speed.
 
@ShanePHallam
Derrick Henry’s thickness is what hurts his change of direction ability. He carries it well, but could be so dangerous a tad lighter too
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18 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

He should be a linebacker

Not sure how true this is. But rumor in Gainesville is that Henry wanted to go to UF, but Muschamp recruited him as a LB. Henry refused to switch positions, and thus another Bama Heisman RB is born.

It also adds more fire to how terrible Muschamp was.

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Not sure why anyone' opinion of Henry changes much...the numbers seem to confirm what we largely knew...really big guy with straightline speed who might not change directions and/or start and stop that well.  your hope for excellence is that henry so much dude that he is tough for defenses to handle

Edited by coolnerd
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8 minutes ago, coolnerd said:

Not sure why anyone' opinion of Henry changes much...the numbers seem to confirm what we largely knew...really big guy with straightline speed who might not change directions and/or start and stop that well.  your hope for excellence is that henry so much dude that he is tough for defenses to handle

That's how you miss on the next David Johnson and over draft the next bust like Melvin Gordon. I know it's not popular on here but there is some merit to seeing what's under the hood.

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Just now, Milkman said:

That's how you miss on the next David Johnson and over draft the next bust like Melvin Gordon. I know it's not popular on here but there is some merit to seeing what's under the hood.

I spoke specifically on Henry's numbers (checking the hood)...you are adding the part about ignoring the combine on your own. 

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12 minutes ago, coolnerd said:
13 minutes ago, coolnerd said:

I spoke specifically on Henry's numbers (checking the hood)...you are adding the part about ignoring the combine on your own. 

I spoke specifically on Henry's numbers (checking the hood)...you are adding the part about ignoring the combine on your own. 

Fair enough it seemed like you were alluding to that when I first read it but after rereading it I see what you meant. If he had put up jumps like Elliot he would have dropped significantly. He needs to cut some weight before his pro-day.

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25 minutes ago, Milkman said:

That's how you miss on the next David Johnson and over draft the next bust like Melvin Gordon. I know it's not popular on here but there is some merit to seeing what's under the hood.

Quoting for posterity.  The book is not written on either of these players.

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1 hour ago, coolnerd said:

Not sure why anyone' opinion of Henry changes much...the numbers seem to confirm what we largely knew...really big guy with straightline speed who might not change directions and/or start and stop that well.  your hope for excellence is that henry so much dude that he is tough for defenses to handle

Agree. I woke up today thinking his closest comp was Brandon Jacobs and I'll got bed tonight thinking his closest comp is Brandon Jacobs.

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7 minutes ago, Borden said:

As in good Brandon Jacobs or bad?

Both.

There are slight differences in the two. Jacobs was actually bigger and faster, Henry is a little more laterally elusive to me,  but all in all very similar to me.

Jacobs was a good RB, like Henry a nightmare to bring down, had a healthy YPC and was a big time goal line runner. That's the good part and I think Henry can do all of those things.

I think Henry is a two down back like Jacobs which is a major negative to me and I also think due to his size and immense workload I don't like his chances of staying healthy or being productive over the long haul, not consistently anyway.

 

 

 

 

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ESPN's Mark Dominik, the former general manager of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, believes Alabama RB Derrick Henry will go in the first round regardless of what happens at the Combine in Indianapolis.

 

The 6-foot-3 1/2, 247-pound jackhammer rumbled for 2,219 yards and 28 touchdowns to lead the Crimson Tide to the championship last season. He was the heaviest of all runners who checked into the Combine. Bleacher Report thinks that a Trent Richardson association may end up hurting Henry. We disagree with that. Henry may go later than casual fans assume he should, but that's because a back of his skills is a perfect fit for some clubs (old-school, grinding scheme with a complimentary Tiki Barber-like shifty, receiving-type RB also on the roster) and an awful fit for others (bad line, no complimentary back, a scheme that asks him to stretch laterally or dance around in the backfield, etc.). Henry would be at home in the top half of Round 2, but he may just sneak into the first stanza yet. But only if a perfect situation presents itself or a team, assuming that doesn't matter, makes a Richardson-esque mistake by miscasting Henry.
 
 
Feb 26 - 12:45 PM

 

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NFL Media analyst Bucky Brooks compares Alabama RB Derrick Henry to Eddie George.

 

"Big-bodied ball carrier with outstanding straight-line speed and burst," Brooks wrote. "Henry is a high-volume runner ideally suited to plow between the tackles as a "one-cut" back in a zone-based scheme. ... If Henry lands with right squad (a team that features a power-gap or zone-based scheme), the 'Bama product could quickly develop into the NFL's ultimate hammer in the backfield." The Denver Broncos, Minnesota Vikings and Dallas Cowboys run schemes that would suit Henry, he continued. Fit is important here because of Henry's limitations. "For all of Henry's positive attributes as a runner, he needs a bit of a runway to be an effective weapon in the backfield," Brooks wrote. "He lacks the 'pitter-pat' and lateral quickness to create in the hole, which makes it essential for him to play behind a solid offensive line."
 
 
Source: NFL.com 
Feb 26 - 12:02 PM

 

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4 hours ago, Milkman said:

Fair enough it seemed like you were alluding to that when I first read it but after rereading it I see what you meant. If he had put up jumps like Elliot he would have dropped significantly. He needs to cut some weight before his pro-day.

:thumbup:

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1 hour ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Of course that's not the comp. The idea is that being a two down back isn't a death knell.

I agree I just think it's a lot  lot harder to hit on them but that's my opinion,  and like I said earlier when I comped Henry to Jacobs that was not meant as some kind of insult, Jacobs for sure had use. More than anything I was just trying to say that Henry is who I thought he was, today was not some kind of game changer.

 

 

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I think Henry ends up a cross between a faster Chuck Muncie and a stronger and faster Franco Harris. I don't buy the Jacobs comb and I really think you need to go back further to get a more accurate comp as I think Henry could end up as a 8,000 to 10,000 yd back for his career.  

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9 hours ago, menobrown said:

Both.

There are slight differences in the two. Jacobs was actually bigger and faster, Henry is a little more laterally elusive to me,  but all in all very similar to me.

Jacobs was a good RB, like Henry a nightmare to bring down, had a healthy YPC and was a big time goal line runner. That's the good part and I think Henry can do all of those things.

I think Henry is a two down back like Jacobs which is a major negative to me and I also think due to his size and immense workload I don't like his chances of staying healthy or being productive over the long haul, not consistently anyway.

 

 

 

 

This is my take as well. I think another potential comp is Steven Jackson.  Jackson was 6'2, 240, ran a 4.45, 37 in vertical and was built similarly. In fact, he's closer to Jackson than he is to Jacobs in terms of size.  However, I don't think Henry has the receiving chops that Jackson had nor do I think he's as powerful/violent runner that Jackson was. I also don't think he possesses quite the same lateral agility and acceleration that Jackson had.

 

Jackson was an animal and truly a physical specimen and elite talent. I think Henry could be close to him as a runner but will be limited in reaching that status due to his receiving ability.  

 

For your viewing pleasure: 

 

Edited by gianmarco
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16 hours ago, menobrown said:

Both.

There are slight differences in the two. Jacobs was actually bigger and faster, Henry is a little more laterally elusive to me,  but all in all very similar to me.

Jacobs was a good RB, like Henry a nightmare to bring down, had a healthy YPC and was a big time goal line runner. That's the good part and I think Henry can do all of those things.

I think Henry is a two down back like Jacobs which is a major negative to me and I also think due to his size and immense workload I don't like his chances of staying healthy or being productive over the long haul, not consistently anyway.

 

FWIW Jacobs' Giants led the NFL in rushing when they used him in the first, big Ward in the 2nd, both in the 3rd, and fresh Bradshaw in the 4th.

Jacobs, by himself, couldn't really hold up a full game. He did at times and looked dead tired. Ward was about the same. The rest was quite significant with them.

Bam Morris had a short career which did include a peak where people thought he was unstoppable but a few games later he wore down too.

The Chiefs have had some well-known big RBs. They seem faster and with better vision than Henry, but just the same they wore down quick.

One of my faves to watch, Alstott, also wore down quick.

There's a real lot of precedent and I'm struggling to think of a big back that lasted. Jim Brown was nine years, Earl Campbell nine too but five top ones.

I would be anxious to ride the Henry train in dynasty but also leery he won't hold up as long as other backs. 

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7 hours ago, gianmarco said:

This is my take as well. I think another potential comp is Steven Jackson.  Jackson was 6'2, 240, ran a 4.45, 37 in vertical and was built similarly. In fact, he's closer to Jackson than he is to Jacobs in terms of size.  However, I don't think Henry has the receiving chops that Jackson had nor do I think he's as powerful/violent runner that Jackson was. I also don't think he possesses quite the same lateral agility and acceleration that Jackson had.

 

Jackson was an animal and truly a physical specimen and elite talent. I think Henry could be close to him as a runner but will be limited in reaching that status due to his receiving ability.  

I think Jackson is top of the line athleticism, maybe Jim Brown is the only more athletic big back. (If Ricky is a big back, then I'd put Jax third)

I don't see this in Henry highlights, definitely see more Bam Morris and Jacobs.

I think if he was Jackson-ish he'd be a top pick. I don't think his NFL team is going to have him catching screens to use any moves to beat someone one on one. He's more steam-roller less wiggle.

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Brandon Jacobs might be a size comparison, but his college stats were non existent and he was a 4th round pick.  It's a lazy comparison.  We don't say that anyone 5'9" 210 who runs a 4.45 is going to have the exact same career. 

 

The optimistic comp for Henry isn't Jacobs - who had good stretches but wasn't as talented as Henry - it's Eddie George, who also won the Heisman.   

 

And while I agree that wearing down can be an issue for big backs,  you can't ding Henry because Jacobs got tired with too many carries.   Look at the season Henry just put up, and against quality competition.   He can carry the load for as long as his body will allow.   

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11 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

And while I agree that wearing down can be an issue for big backs,  you can't ding Henry because Jacobs got tired with too many carries.   Look at the season Henry just put up, and against quality competition.   He can carry the load for as long as his body will allow.   

That was selective. I mentioned Chiefs backs, Brown, Earl, Alstott, Bam, and Ward. I didn't make it cause and effect with Jacobs getting tired so Henry will.

Currently, I guess Arian Foster has a similar BMI and big frame. Shorter but 6-0 232. People consider him very questionable or "with issues" heading into 2016. He only has 4-5 peak years the other two years are not noteworthy at all. 

Do you disagree with this sentiment " I would be anxious to ride the Henry train in dynasty but also leery he won't hold up as long as other backs. "?

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3 minutes ago, pecorino said:

I can't help but think of all the other highly touted RBs who put up crazy numbers behind monster offensive lines but flamed out or just fully busted in the NFL. Have not seen data on this but the anecdotal data leads me to be skeptical on Henry.

Yeah I agree with this and was skeptical before the combine "but" Henry should have put those fears to rest with his combine performance. He just showed he's above average athletically almost across the board. Sure his 3 cone was bad but he was never going to make people miss much in the NFL. He's going to wear teams down. One cut and go.

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Fox Sports' Peter Schrager reported that Alabama RB Derrick Henry' "blew everyone away" at the Combine and now has a chance to go in Rd. 1.

 

Schrager believes that the marketplace will dictate this one. And that running back marketplace is so thin that "Doug Martin and/or Lamar Miller [may] fetch $7 mil [plus]," he wrote. The 6-foot-3, 247-pound Henry put on a Combine show for the ages. He posted a positively stupid 4.54 second 40-yard dash as well as an impressive broad jump (10-foot-10) and vertical leap (37 inches). Henry isn't out of the woods yet, though. He's a one-tricky, full-steam-ahead pony who doesn't have much wiggle in him. That profile bore out at the Combine, where Henry was a high-speed freight train on the track and stiffer than Ted Cruz in the three-cone drill, managing a 7.20 second showing that was bested by Northwestern FB Dan Vitale and similar to UCLA C Jake Brendel and Oregon T Tyler Johnstone.
 
 
Feb 29 - 2:21 PM

 

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On 2/26/2016 at 0:45 PM, Milkman said:

LOL Yea because 230+ pounds is small.

Your point, if I understand it correctly, is if he loses 15 lbs he'll be quicker, or his lateral agility will get better.  

My point is that if he's at his 100% most powerful at 250 - and you want him to come down to 95%, the incremental increase to his lateral quickness or agility will not be worth the 5% he lost from power.  

He's not going to ever going to be a Barry Sanders type.  Let him be the Okoye type and do what he does well.  If you know anything about him as a prospect you know that the knock on him was never "he's not fast," it was lacking the lateral movement and "moves" other backs have had.  He's not going to learn those or get good enough for them to matter at this stage in his career.  

Edited by -CE-
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On 2/28/2016 at 8:25 AM, pecorino said:

I can't help but think of all the other highly touted RBs who put up crazy numbers behind monster offensive lines but flamed out or just fully busted in the NFL. Have not seen data on this but the anecdotal data leads me to be skeptical on Henry.

 

Alabama O-line in 2015 was not as good as year's past.  They didn't use a FB and ran out of shotgun or pistol a lot more.

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1 hour ago, -CE- said:

Your point, if I understand it correctly, is if he loses 15 lbs he'll be quicker, or his lateral agility will get better.  

My point is that if he's at his 100% most powerful at 250 - and you want him to come down to 95%, the incremental increase to his lateral quickness or agility will not be worth the 5% he lost from power.  

He's not going to ever going to be a Barry Sanders type.  Let him be the Okoye type and do what he does well.  If you know anything about him as a prospect you know that the knock on him was never "he's not fast," it was lacking the lateral movement and "moves" other backs have had.  He's not going to learn those or get good enough for them to matter at this stage in his career.  

It's not a zero sum game. Losing this % of weight doesn't necessarily mean he's going to lose this % of power. 

Edited by Milkman
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