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WR Tyrell Williams, DET - 9.22.21 - Concussion - Unlikely To Play Week 3 (3 Viewers)

Milkman said:
Yes. He needs to get away from Rivers and the Chargers. They have ruined him pretty much. He'll blow up wherever he goes. 
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LMAO. The Chargers are the franchise that gave him - a UDFA - a shot. Rivers is the QB that put him on the map. Despite the fact that he doesn't run good routes, makes bad reads/decisions, and doesn't play up to his physical talent.

Milkman said:
ShamrockPride said:
I just think Rivers hates him lol. And Rivers is the type of QB that once he finds a guy he loves (Allen) he really latches onto them, more than most QBs. Ty dropped a few passes of his (some of them TDs) in their first few games together, and that was enough for Rivers to say "alright, this isn't my guy."
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Rivers has Hated Williams for years...…..He makes a lot of decisions before the snap. I've seen some many plays where Tyrell was running wide open and Rivers forced it into triple coverage to Allen instead of throwing it to Tyrell Williams. He will do great somewhere else...….The Chargers organization has miss used a ton of talent...…..they are a joke.
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LMFAO. "Many plays where Rivers forced it into triple coverage instead of throwing to Tyrell, who was wide open." Post some examples. Even if you don't have links, I have NFL Game Pass and can go in and find whatever plays you reference. Seriously, name one play. I'll wait.

What's that? You can't name one play? That's what I figured. You have been posting nonsense in the Shark Pool for years about Rivers not throwing to open players. Your previous favorite was Ladarius Green, who, that's right, doesn't play in the NFL any more.

:rolleyes:  

ShamrockPride said:
Gonna be a nice dyno stash when he signs as a starter somewhere else next season.
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Good luck with that. He better sign with a team with an elite passing offense and a hole at WR2 if you think he is going to improve his fantasy prospects. Can you name any such teams?

 
Milkman said:
Rivers has Hated Williams for years...…..He makes a lot of decisions before the snap. I've seen some many plays where Tyrell was running wide open and Rivers forced it into triple coverage to Allen instead of throwing it to Tyrell Williams. He will do great somewhere else...….The Chargers organization has miss used a ton of talent...…..they are a joke. 
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No, you really haven't.

 
Sorry to hurt your feelings guys. You're right I have been talking about this for years. I posted an example with Green and Williams before. Green has an even better case. He's not in the NFL anymore because of health reasons but he walked right into Pittsburgh and instantly he was better because Big Ben throws to open players. 

Rivers is a solid but limited QB. Super accurate but a lot of times he knows who he's throwing to pre-snap. 

When Williams gets out of there I think he'll do better. Of course he could go to a worse situation......or I could be wrong. Time will tell. 

 
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Milkman said:
Sorry to hurt your feelings guys. You're right I have been talking about this for years. I posted an example with Green and Williams before. Green has an even better case. He's not in the NFL anymore because of health reasons but he walked right into Pittsburgh and instantly he was better because Big Ben throws to open players. 

Rivers is a solid but limited QB. Super accurate but a lot of times he knows who he's throwing to pre-snap. 

When Williams gets out of there I think he'll do better. Of course he could go to a worse situation......or I could be wrong. Time will tell. 
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Green was not better in PIT. 

Yes, sometimes Rivers knows where he wants to throw pre-snap, because he knows the routes and his read progression and reads the defense, which tells him where he should go. Every great veteran QB does this.

But your take on this is that Rivers frequently makes bad reads or fails to see and target open players. It further implies that he and the coaching staff fail to see this on film and make adjustments, despite the fact that you - @Milkman at FBG - can supposedly see this.

That stance is absurd and undermines your credibility. 

If Williams moves on this offseason, his best case is to sign as a WR2. Depending on where, that could be better or worse for him - possible difference in his target pecking order, change in offense, change in QB play. 

 
Just Win Baby said:
Good luck with that. He better sign with a team with an elite passing offense and a hole at WR2 if you think he is going to improve his fantasy prospects. Can you name any such teams?
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I agree with pretty much all you've said in this thread, however I do think he's got a decent shot to improve his fantasy prospects in free agency. Even though he's a starter right now, he's on a 16 game pace for 61 targets. That's unstartable in most formats. While you are correct that it doesn't seem like there are a lot of spots right now with a vacancy at WR2, there could be some teams looking for an outside receiver for 2019. Just as a thought exercise I'll glance at the standings and mention the teams which might be interested:

  • New England - it's super annoying how people are always hoping for New England any time someone is a free agent and with Brady's questionable deep ball, I don't think this would be a great landing spot for him, but Hogan and Gordon will be free agents so they will be looking for an outside WR. Of note, Edelman will have 1 year left, but will be 33.
  • Miami - they will have likely moved on from Parker by next season. Not sure if they'll bring back a 34 year old Amendola. 
  • Jets - they already have a bunch of WR2s on their team, but I don't know how long they'll all be around. I think Enunwa, Pryor, and Kearse are all FAs after this season.
  • Buffalo - has the weakest WR corps in the NFL.
  • Baltimore - I think John Brown is on a 1-year deal; Tyrell could fill that role well.
  • Cleveland - will they be content with Higgins and Callaway on the outside?
  • Indy - this might be the most appealing WR2 job of them all so far, but depends on how they value Cain. 
  • Oakland - will they trade Cooper and/or bring back a 34 year old Jordy?
  • Washington - Doctson and Richardson... I don't know that either of them are better than Tyrell.
  • Dallas - kind of like the Jets, they have a lot of WR2 types. Would not be an exciting landing spot, but maybe he could do better than 61 targets there.
  • Philly - could use an outside receiver opposite of Alshon, but not an appealing landing spot.
  • NYG - with Shepard largely in the slot, they are starting Latimer outisde. Like Philly - the job is open, but not appealing.
  • Green Bay - looks like Allison might be the guy, but you never know.
  • SF - probably sticking with Goodwin and Pettis, but those guys are crazy with their money.
  • Arizona - they have 3 slot WRs and 0 outside receivers right now. 
I think at least 10 of those landing spots are realistic and represent a similar or greater target load. He will be an appealing free agent. 27 years old, 6'3", 4.48 speed, former 1000 yard receiver. 

That being said, he'll be competing with rookies and other free agents. I don't like his odds of being a fantasy WR3 in 2019, but it is certainly possible if he gets a good break on his free agency landing spot. 

 
Just Win Baby said:
Green was not better in PIT. 

Yes, sometimes Rivers knows where he wants to throw pre-snap, because he knows the routes and his read progression and reads the defense, which tells him where he should go. Every great veteran QB does this.

But your take on this is that Rivers frequently makes bad reads or fails to see and target open players. It further implies that he and the coaching staff fail to see this on film and make adjustments, despite the fact that you - @Milkman at FBG - can supposedly see this.

That stance is absurd and undermines your credibility. 

If Williams moves on this offseason, his best case is to sign as a WR2. Depending on where, that could be better or worse for him - possible difference in his target pecking order, change in offense, change in QB play. 
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Green was on pace for a top 5ish TE finish in Pittsburgh if you prorate his numbers. This was inspite of him missing training camp. 

 
Milkman said:
Green was on pace for a top 5ish TE finish in Pittsburgh if you prorate his numbers. This was inspite of him missing training camp. 
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He had 18 receptions for 304 yards and 1 TD in 6 games - that prorates to 48 receptions for 810 yards and 2.6 TDs. Maybe that would have been top 5 that year but it's not all that great - and I'm not sure we can assume he would have maintained his 17 yards per catch average over a full season.

 
Milkman said:
Prorate his numbers over a season. What do they come out too?
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I don’t believe prorating 6 games to 16 is valid, particularly when the majority of his production in those 6 games occurred in just 2 games.

@Dr. Octopus posted the prorated stats, and they would have put him around TE14 if he sustained it all season. 

 
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ShamrockPride said:
"Awful player. Just a game where he found a few holes in the defense and managed to hang onto the ball."

-somebody in here  ;)
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Disagree…...we'll find out who's right next year since he's terrible there's no way the Chargers will resign him. Would love to see him in Pittsburgh......They've shown the Chargers how to use their discarded players before. 

 
He's in the old Malcom Floyd role...  Deep threat who goes boom and bust based on whether he can get behind the defense.  

It does seem like Tyrell has the talent to do more, but the Chargers offense is pretty stacked. 

 
This was a game where the rushing game was ineffective/getting bottled up, and without Gordon.

Is Williams a decent flex play in games where the Chargers are facing stout Run Ds or where game script tilts to pass?

Or are there simply too many offensive options for him to be reliable?

My sense is the latter given the boom/bust nature of his performance, but he'd be intriguing if the Chargers' usage of him was more predictable based on game plan/script.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
This was a game where the rushing game was ineffective/getting bottled up, and without Gordon.

Is Williams a decent flex play in games where the Chargers are facing stout Run Ds or where game script tilts to pass?

Or are there simply too many offensive options for him to be reliable?

My sense is the latter given the boom/bust nature of his performance, but he'd be intriguing if the Chargers' usage of him was more predictable based on game plan/script.
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2 games in a row with a long TD. It would've been 3 games, but Rivers underthrew him on a 48 yard pass in the Raider game that should've been a 98 yard TD.

 
SoBeDad said:
2 games in a row with a long TD. It would've been 3 games, but Rivers underthrew him on a 48 yard pass in the Raider game that should've been a 98 yard TD.
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The question is, do you see this as a continuing trend in terms of Rivers throwing a few bombs his way as he did the past few games?

More game script dependent?

Flukey and unpredictable performance?

Is this guy worth throwing in at flex knowing you may get a bust? Or is he becoming a more reliable downfield option? Targets seem really evenly spread. Saw 3.8 targets/game coming into this week, barely more than Gates, compared to Mike (4.3),  Melvin (7), and Allen (8.5)

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
The question is, do you see this as a continuing trend in terms of Rivers throwing a few bombs his way as he did the past few games?

More game script dependent?

Flukey and unpredictable performance?

Is this guy worth throwing in at flex knowing you may get a bust? Or is he becoming a more reliable downfield option? Targets seem really evenly spread. Saw 3.8 targets/game coming into this week, barely more than Gates, compared to Mike (4.3),  Melvin (7), and Allen (8.5)
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I thought Mike Williams would overtake Tyrell, but he doesn't have Tryell's speed. The 55 yard TD to Mike was bad coverage by the DB. Maybe having Mike and Allen opposite Tyrell has helped him get open deep. Because of his size, Mike was targeted (unsuccessfully) twice more in the end-zone. Maybe Tyrell will get one of those targets next game.

Tyrell has been very efficient on few targets - the last 3 weeks, starting today: 4/4, 3/4 and 3/3.  That efficiency on deep balls is hard to maintain. 

I sat Tyrell the last 2 games - I may start playing him after the bye.

 
SoBeDad said:
2 games in a row with a long TD. It would've been 3 games, but Rivers underthrew him on a 48 yard pass in the Raider game that should've been a 98 yard TD.
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Sure, and he also dropped a sure long TD in week 1 and failed to make a play on another possible TD. :shrug:  

Underthrows will happen sometimes; the nature of the deep ball is that it is typically less accurate than shorter passes. The thing Tyrell needs to do is avoid drops and make plays on contested balls. The past 2 weeks are very promising. If he gets open like that and makes plays without drops, he will continue to draw targets. But, that is the key question - will he? To date in his career, he has frequently flashed but has never been consistent.

He has the opportunity to make himself a lot of money if he plays well the rest of this season.

 
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Stompin' Tom Connors said:
The question is, do you see this as a continuing trend in terms of Rivers throwing a few bombs his way as he did the past few games?
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Well, his long TD today came because his defender bit on a Rivers shoulder fake on a shorter route while Tyrell was running past him on a go route. Had the defender done his job, it's hard to say if Tyrell would have gotten open, whether or not Rivers would have thrown that ball to him, and, if so, whether or not he would have made the play.

What I just described is not exactly game script dependent, it is dependent on decisions made by defenders.

 
Tyrell Williams hauled in 4-of-6 targets for 46 yards in the Chargers' Week 10 win over the Raiders.

It was not a big game for Williams, but his usage was promising on Sunday. The six targets are actually the most he has seen this season, and he has clearly vanquished Mike Williams in the battle for the No. 2 receiver job. He will face a tougher test next week in Denver, but Williams will remain the FLEX conversation.

Nov 11 - 7:11 PM
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The 2019 class of free agent wide receivers is pretty much abysmal.  Tyrell Williams may be the closest thing to a number 1 receiver. 

I'm curious to see what his contract looks like and where he ends up.

 
Chargers GM Tom Telesco suggested it may not be "realistic" to re-sign free agent Tyrell Williams.

Williams wants to get paid as a No. 1 receiver this offseason. With Mike Williams coming off a breakout year, it doesn't make sense for the Chargers to get in a bidding war for him. 26-year-old Williams if our fifth-ranked free-agent wideout.

Source: ESPN 

Feb 1 - 2:15 PM
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12 million for Tyrell Williams? He struggled as a #2 WR with a great QB and quality #1 taking coverage away. If I were a team looking for a WR, I'd scoff at that price, and take my chances with a day 2 rookie for 1/5th the price.

 
travdogg said:
12 million for Tyrell Williams? He struggled as a #2 WR with a great QB and quality #1 taking coverage away. If I were a team looking for a WR, I'd scoff at that price, and take my chances with a day 2 rookie for 1/5th the price.
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This year he did as well as the other #2 WR on SD, Mike Williams, who was a 1st round pick.  Is Mike Williams valued at a day 2 rookie?

As the #1 receiver in 2016, with primary coverage, he had 1,000yds + 7TD's

 
travdogg said:
12 million for Tyrell Williams? He struggled as a #2 WR with a great QB and quality #1 taking coverage away. If I were a team looking for a WR, I'd scoff at that price, and take my chances with a day 2 rookie for 1/5th the price.
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Yeah, WR pay is crazy.  Sammy Watkins got 16 million last year and hasn't done anything more than Williams in his career other than being the #3 overall pick in 2014.

 
djmich said:
This year he did as well as the other #2 WR on SD, Mike Williams, who was a 1st round pick.  Is Mike Williams valued at a day 2 rookie?

As the #1 receiver in 2016, with primary coverage, he had 1,000yds + 7TD's
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Mike Williams had double the TD's (10-5) and made several highlight reel catches, as essentially a rookie, and is still very much on the upswing, Tyrell Williams had a solid season 3 years ago. They aren't worth anywhere near the same amount. 

 
travdogg said:
Mike Williams had double the TD's (10-5) and made several highlight reel catches, as essentially a rookie, and is still very much on the upswing, Tyrell Williams had a solid season 3 years ago. They aren't worth anywhere near the same amount. 
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Never underestimate the effect of supply and demand. Another article just said Adam Humphries may get $10m.

 
travdogg said:
djmich said:
This year he did as well as the other #2 WR on SD, Mike Williams, who was a 1st round pick.  Is Mike Williams valued at a day 2 rookie?

As the #1 receiver in 2016, with primary coverage, he had 1,000yds + 7TD's
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Mike Williams had double the TD's (10-5) and made several highlight reel catches, as essentially a rookie, and is still very much on the upswing, Tyrell Williams had a solid season 3 years ago. They aren't worth anywhere near the same amount. 
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:goodposting:  

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Never underestimate the effect of supply and demand. Another article just said Adam Humphries may get $10m.
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The demand is the crazy part. At this rate teams might be better off just signing 2 full-time RB's or TE's and playing them both at the same time. 10 million for Tampa's 5th best catcher?

 
Lots of teams need a #1 WR. Ty put together a 1000 yard/7 TD (correct me if wrong on the TDs) in his first season as an emergency #1. No reason a few seasons later of development and a QB who doesn't lock onto 1 guy 24/7 like Phil, he can't expand on that season.

BMW will be a wasted 1st rounder as long as Keenan is there. Phil just looks for him way too much to get back the value BMW carries with a 1st round selection. Didn't make sense then. Even with Ty gone, still doesn't make sense now.

 
ShamrockPride said:
BMW will be a wasted 1st rounder as long as Keenan is there. Phil just looks for him way too much to get back the value BMW carries with a 1st round selection. Didn't make sense then. Even with Ty gone, still doesn't make sense now.
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As a Chargers fan, I didn't like the Mike Williams pick. However, there were two primary reasons for the pick:

  1. At the time of the pick, Allen had missed 25 of the team's past 34 games with 3 different injuries. The team wanted more WR talent to provide better insurance if Allen could not stay healthy going forward.
  2. In 2016, the team was just #22 in red zone TD percentage (51.2%) and wanted to improve that by adding a strong red zone target. In 2017, with MW limited due to injuries, they were even worse (#28, 46.2%). In 2018, with MW healthy, they were much better (#10, 64.2%), despite losing TE Henry for the entire season. MW was a big part of that improvement, with 8 red zone TDs.
In hindsight, it also helps the Chargers out this offseason. Had they drafted another position in 2017, they would probably feel much more compelled to try to keep Tyrell. But Tyrell will probably make at least twice as much as Mike Williams in 2019 and 2020, even though Mike is a better player.

So it has worked out pretty well for the Chargers, and I am certain they are very happy with the value they have gotten from picking him.

 
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The Las Vegas Review-Journal's Michael Gehlken believes the Raiders are "likely to make a serious run" at free agent Tyrell Williams.

The Raiders are one of the most receiver-needy teams out there, and Williams is considered the best one available in an extremely-weak free-agent class. Williams is big and fast at 6'4/205 and just turned 27 in February. Williams is very likely to command close to $10 million per year or more. The Raiders have also been the team most heavily linked to Antonio Brown, so they could do some serious retooling on offense to surround Derek Carr with more talent.

RELATED: 

Oakland Raiders

SOURCE: Las Vegas Review-Journal

Mar 2, 2019, 8:53 AM
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The Man With No Name said:
Where could he go and get more targets?
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I'd rather have him get a smaller piece of a big pie that a large piece of a tiny pie.  Oakland stinks, and has a bad QB and a bad old school coach.

Amari Cooper couldn't produce in Oakland and he is a lot better than Tyrell IMO. 

Larry Fitz lead his team with 112 targets but managed like 750 yards because the offense sucked so bad. 

I guess I think being the top target isn't all it's cracked up to be if the offense is putrid. Who knows who else they might bring in. 

 
CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora reports the Colts are in "strong pursuit" of free agent Tyrell Williams.

La Canfora echoes the Las Vegas Review-Journal's Michael Gehlken's report from last week, saying the Raiders are also courting Williams, who is expected to get $12 million-plus annually as a 27-year-old. GM Chris Ballard hasn't shown a big belief in building through free agency, and Williams is going to be expensive, but both coach Frank Reich and OC Nick Sirianni know Williams from their Chargers days. Indianapolis does need to do something out wide to take the burden off T.Y. Hilton.

RELATED: 

Indianapolis Colts

SOURCE: CBS Sports

Mar 6, 2019, 9:02 AM
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Colts do have the most salary cap space available and 6th most in 2020.  They have Hilton for 2 more years and Luck will probably be there a long time. He wouldn't be number one there now like he wants but could get the most $$$$ if they want him bad enough.  Not sure how it would be for Williams fantasy wise though with Hilton and the Te's heavily involved

 
The Man With No Name said:
Colts do have the most salary cap space available and 6th most in 2020.  They have Hilton for 2 more years and Luck will probably be there a long time. He wouldn't be number one there now like he wants but could get the most $$$$ if they want him bad enough.  Not sure how it would be for Williams fantasy wise though with Hilton and the Te's heavily involved
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Seems strange to me that the Colts would want him.  He basically does the same things Hilton does and it doesn't exactly fill other roles, but what do I know. 

 
Zyphros said:
Seems strange to me that the Colts would want him.  He basically does the same things Hilton does and it doesn't exactly fill other roles, but what do I know. 
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Yeah, some overlap there, but either way it would be a pretty big boost to his value.

 
voiceofunreason said:
FF Ninja said:
Yeah, some overlap there, but either way it would be a pretty big boost to his value.
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Sort of. Rivers has always been good for his wrs. A more likely scenario sees him out of the league in a couple years or a bench player.
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It would absolutely be a big boost for Tyrell. Three reasons:

  1. On the Chargers in 2018, he was the 4th target, despite TE Henry missing the entire season. For the Colts, his worst case would likely be the 3rd target behind Hilton and Ebron.
  2. In 2018, the Colts were #2 in the league with 644 passing attempts, while the Chargers were #24 with 512 attempts. Much bigger pie in Indy.
  3. He would move from one great QB to another great -- and younger -- QB.
Frankly, it's hard to imagine a better scenario for Tyrell than Indy.

 
travdogg said:
12 million for Tyrell Williams? He struggled as a #2 WR with a great QB and quality #1 taking coverage away. If I were a team looking for a WR, I'd scoff at that price, and take my chances with a day 2 rookie for 1/5th the price.
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A WR that struggled to be WR3 with a great QB and quality #1 taking coverage away got way more last year.

 
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matuski said:
A WR that struggled to be WR3 with a great QB and quality #1 taking coverage away got way more last year.
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Hopefully teams learned from that poor decision. I'm assuming you mean Paul Richardson, but last year's FA WR contracts were nuts, so you could mean Taylor Gabriel for all I know. Hell, if you were really stretching, you might be describing Sammy Watkins.

 
travdogg said:
Hopefully teams learned from that poor decision. I'm assuming you mean Paul Richardson, but last year's FA WR contracts were nuts, so you could mean Taylor Gabriel for all I know. Hell, if you were really stretching, you might be describing Sammy Watkins.
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Sammy Watkins

Last 3 years, there is zero argument on who has been the better WR.

 
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Indianapolis or San Fran would be big value boosts IMO.  I'm looking to sell the news when it hits, and I'm guessing this will be an early domino. 

 
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