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Mike Tomlin...is it time to go? (2 Viewers)

Godsbrother said:
Who do you want to replace him?
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Like I said, maybe we replace him with someone better and maybe with someone worse. But his performance over the past decade hasn't earned him the type of lack of accountability that the Steelers ownership continues to give him or a reputation of being a premier coach. He's not. Making the playoffs most years with a HOF quarterback isn't a tremendous accomplishment, and he's generally been a failure in the playoffs.

I'd like them to hire someone who'll run a tighter ship with more discipline and better in game management skills. But I'm not qualified to determine exactly who that would be.

 
Steelers4Life said:
Like I said, maybe we replace him with someone better and maybe with someone worse. But his performance over the past decade hasn't earned him the type of lack of accountability that the Steelers ownership continues to give him or a reputation of being a premier coach. He's not. Making the playoffs most years with a HOF quarterback isn't a tremendous accomplishment, and he's generally been a failure in the playoffs.

I'd like them to hire someone who'll run a tighter ship with more discipline and better in game management skills. But I'm not qualified to determine exactly who that would be.
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Fair enough but I disagree that Tomlin is not a one of the better coaches and I would bet the rest of the NFL shares that assessment.  The HOF quarterback played like crap for the most part of the losing streak at the end of the season and tossed 4 picks in the Browns loss.  Perhaps a better coach would have replaced him with Rudolph, Dobbs or Duck.

I am not suggesting that Tomlin isn't culpable nor am I opposed to replacing him and I certainly understand the frustration in the last couple of years.  If there is a better candidate out there then fire Tomlin and bring him in.

But we both know that isn't happening...

 
Godsbrother said:
Fair enough but I disagree that Tomlin is not a one of the better coaches and I would bet the rest of the NFL shares that assessment.  The HOF quarterback played like crap for the most part of the losing streak at the end of the season and tossed 4 picks in the Browns loss.  Perhaps a better coach would have replaced him with Rudolph, Dobbs or Duck.

I am not suggesting that Tomlin isn't culpable nor am I opposed to replacing him and I certainly understand the frustration in the last couple of years.  If there is a better candidate out there then fire Tomlin and bring him in.

But we both know that isn't happening...
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He won't be replaced, no matter what questions abound. But let's be frank about it, he won a SB with Cowher's team, and has ridden Cowher's HOF QB for years. It really is not that hard to obtain a great regular season run on the back of a HOF QB if we are to be honest. There are none of the 26 inductees that failed consistently to lead teams to great regular season records.

Part of me wants to see what he can put together without Ben.

 
crushedspirit said:
He won't be replaced, no matter what questions abound. But let's be frank about it, he won a SB with Cowher's team, and has ridden Cowher's HOF QB for years. It really is not that hard to obtain a great regular season run on the back of a HOF QB if we are to be honest. There are none of the 26 inductees that failed consistently to lead teams to great regular season records.

Part of me wants to see what he can put together without Ben.
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I can't stand the "he won a SB With Cowher's team" stuff.   I love Bill Cowher but he had his critics of not being able to win big games and disappointing in the playoffs too.

If Tomlin sucks so bad and it was Cowher's players that were responsible for 2008 then I can't figure out how Cowher didn't win more than a single SB.  I also don't get how Tomlin ever got to another SB and played in multiple AFC championship games without Bill Cowher's help.

By the way, I hate playing the "Tomlin lover" role cause I am not.  I have no problem with the Steelers moving on from Tomlin if they can find better.  The problem is that whenever I talk to my fellow Steelers fans they just want Tomlin fired and when you ask who they want instead the typical response is crickets.  I don't know how you can want to fire Tomlin without knowing who you might replace him with.

 
Foosball God said:
Have a good QB doesn't guarantee success, you all are seriously undervaluing Tomlin.
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Totally agree.  As a long-time Raider fan that was born and raised in Steeler country, I think Steeler fans are overreacting.   If the Steelers don’t win a SB, they consider the season a failure.  That’s not a bad thing or a knock on the fans or the team.  That is what happens when your team wins a lot.  Pittsburgh is one of the best run organizations in the NFL and Tomlin is a very good coach.   Someone should name 10 or even 5 better coaches in the NFL.  

The drafting by the Steelers always seems to be better than other teams as well.  If Tomlin is involved with that, he is easily one of the top 5 coaches.  

Steeler fans should enjoy their teams stability and expect to reach the playoffs again in 2021 just based on the defense, WR Corp, and organization.   

 
Godsbrother said:
I can't stand the "he won a SB With Cowher's team" stuff.   I love Bill Cowher but he had his critics of not being able to win big games and disappointing in the playoffs too.

If Tomlin sucks so bad and it was Cowher's players that were responsible for 2008 then I can't figure out how Cowher didn't win more than a single SB.  I also don't get how Tomlin ever got to another SB and played in multiple AFC championship games without Bill Cowher's help.

By the way, I hate playing the "Tomlin lover" role cause I am not.  I have no problem with the Steelers moving on from Tomlin if they can find better.  The problem is that whenever I talk to my fellow Steelers fans they just want Tomlin fired and when you ask who they want instead the typical response is crickets.  I don't know how you can want to fire Tomlin without knowing who you might replace him with.
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Did anyone really say Tomlin should be our next coach until they hired him?  The fans not knowing really isn't that big a deal to me as long as the front office knows.  

But I have never really been a fan of Tomlin.  Players love him, but he sucks as a game coach and if the head coach can't handle that duty it is a problem.

 
Godsbrother said:
I can't stand the "he won a SB With Cowher's team" stuff.   I love Bill Cowher but he had his critics of not being able to win big games and disappointing in the playoffs too.

If Tomlin sucks so bad and it was Cowher's players that were responsible for 2008 then I can't figure out how Cowher didn't win more than a single SB.  I also don't get how Tomlin ever got to another SB and played in multiple AFC championship games without Bill Cowher's help.

By the way, I hate playing the "Tomlin lover" role cause I am not.  I have no problem with the Steelers moving on from Tomlin if they can find better.  The problem is that whenever I talk to my fellow Steelers fans they just want Tomlin fired and when you ask who they want instead the typical response is crickets.  I don't know how you can want to fire Tomlin without knowing who you might replace him with.
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That's one way of looking at it.

Cowher likely would've won more Super Bowls had Ben come to the Steelers sooner or he hadn't stuck with Kordell for so long. If Cowher had an issue, it was showing too much loyalty to Kordell and never fixing the team's QB issues that always caused their downfall. But the team he left behind was awesome and only finished 8-8 the year before because of Ben's motorcycle accident. Beyond 2010, the team is 3-7 in the playoffs and none of the 3 teams the Steelers have beaten in the playoffs had a good QB. They've only beaten teams QBed by Matt Moore, Alex Smith, and AJ McCarron, and lost every other playoff game for a decade. No matter how you cut it, the Steelers have been awful in the playoffs for a decade now, and getting there with the level of talent they've had hasn't meant that much.

I'm not giving you crickets on who the Steelers should/would replace him with. I'm saying that there's no guarantee someone would be better, but I've seen enough of Tomlin-led teams fail in the playoffs that I'd like to see the team put a lot more pressure on him or conduct a search to find another leader.  I'm not a front office guy and I'm hardly qualified to name his replacement... I'm commenting specifically on what Tomlin has and has not brought to the table. 

And no, I don't expect the team to fire Tomlin.

 
Godsbrother said:
I can't stand the "he won a SB With Cowher's team" stuff.   I love Bill Cowher but he had his critics of not being able to win big games and disappointing in the playoffs too.

If Tomlin sucks so bad and it was Cowher's players that were responsible for 2008 then I can't figure out how Cowher didn't win more than a single SB.  I also don't get how Tomlin ever got to another SB and played in multiple AFC championship games without Bill Cowher's help.

By the way, I hate playing the "Tomlin lover" role cause I am not.  I have no problem with the Steelers moving on from Tomlin if they can find better.  The problem is that whenever I talk to my fellow Steelers fans they just want Tomlin fired and when you ask who they want instead the typical response is crickets.  I don't know how you can want to fire Tomlin without knowing who you might replace him with.
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Cowher never had a QB until Ben. What he did with what he had was already a feat upon itself. O'Donnell threw away a SB, then he went to further playoff appearances with Tomczak, Stewart, and Maddox. I can't even stop laughing right now.

In Ben's first two seasons, Cowher went to Conference final and won a SB. That says enough for me. If he had him sooner, who knows how much more success he would have had.

 
Anyways, I won't say he should go or not. What I do say is what I posted before,

It's one thing to lose in playoffs, it's another to lose last two allowing 45 and 48 points at home against Blake Bortles and Baker Mayfield led teams. Something is wrong with that picture, and it's up to the franchise to find out what it is, and fix it. The last four years has been a failure
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Now, if he's the guy to take them through these tough times, then so be it. Like I also said before, part of me wants to see what he does without Ben around. 

 
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crushedspirit said:
HOF QB is different than a good QB. Go through the 26 QB inductees and find me a regular season failure.
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Is he a HOF QB because of their sustained success?  Put Philip Rivers on the Steelers for his career instead of Ben, do you think there would be that significant of a drop off if any?

 
Foosball God said:
Is he a HOF QB because of their sustained success?  Put Philip Rivers on the Steelers for his career instead of Ben, do you think there would be that significant of a drop off if any?
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We can play the 'what if' game every year, with every player switching teams. You can only judge on what is seen and on paper.

 
I find these playoff stats amazing too. I know the game has changed over the years, but Noll and Cowher earned their trust and long tenures. Tomlin hasn't.

In the 2010's and 2020, entirely under Tomlin and with a HOF QB the entire time, the Steelers are 3-7 in the playoffs with 1 AFCC appearance, no impressive wins, and multiple really bad losses.

From 2006 to 2010, with largely an inherited roster, Tomlin was 5-2 in the playoffs with a Super Bowl win and a Super Bowl loss.

From 2000 to 2005, Cowher was 7-3 in the playoffs, 1-2 in the AFCC and won a Super Bowl. That includes a 5-1 record in Ben's first two seasons... if only he had come earlier, Cowher would have likely won more Super Bowls.

From 1991 to 2000, the Steelers under Cowher were 5-6 in the playoffs with 2 AFC Championship losses and 1 Super Bowl loss, all with a combination of O'Donnell, Tomczak, and Kordell.

Even in the 1980's, when the franchise was mostly led by Bubby Brister and Mark Malone, Chuck Noll's Steelers were 2-4 in the playoffs with one AFC Championship loss. Not a whole lot different than what Tomlin's teams have done the past decade with a HOF QB.

Is it a simplistic view? Sure. But it's a striking comparison when you're talking about the Steelers' loyalty to their head coaches.

 
crushedspirit said:
How so? I said based on what Cowher did in Ben's first two seasons with the same team.
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It was the same team?  No player turnover?  I'm not a Steelers buff so maybe there was very minimal turnover, but it is absolutely "what if" to imply that Cowher would have gotten the same or better results than Tomlin.

 
Foosball God said:
It was the same team?  No player turnover?  I'm not a Steelers buff so maybe there was very minimal turnover, but it is absolutely "what if" to imply that Cowher would have gotten the same or better results than Tomlin.
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It's all speculation and effort to downplay Tomlin's accomplishments.  Fans are frustrated and so am I.  If I felt the solution was to fire Tomlin and there was a good candidate then I would be all for it.  I'm just not there yet.

 
Foosball God said:
It was the same team?  No player turnover?  I'm not a Steelers buff so maybe there was very minimal turnover, but it is absolutely "what if" to imply that Cowher would have gotten the same or better results than Tomlin.
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All the pro bowl pieces were in place when Ben arrived 2004. Starks was added in 2004 with Parker, and then Miller in 2005. Extra pieces that helped, but the offensive mainstays were there in Ward, El, Plaxico, and Bettis, and anchored by Faneca and Hartings blocking. The D was already in place with all pro players like Farrior and Porter, and Troy P.

Maddux was the starter, and that is laughable. 

 
Godsbrother said:
It's all speculation and effort to downplay Tomlin's accomplishments.  Fans are frustrated and so am I.  If I felt the solution was to fire Tomlin and there was a good candidate then I would be all for it.  I'm just not there yet.
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His early accomplishments are indeed something to admire, but let's be real, he walked into a ready-to-win situation on a team that won the SB two years before. There was no overhaul required, as the team was already stacked. Cowher built that team, not Mike. So until Mike can build a team himself and succeed, yes, some questions will remain. 

Let him continue his team build and see what happens. 

 
crushedspirit said:
His early accomplishments are indeed something to admire, but let's be real, he walked into a ready-to-win situation on a team that won the SB two years before. There was no overhaul required, as the team was already stacked. Cowher built that team, not Mike. So until Mike can build a team himself and succeed, yes, some questions will remain. 

Let him continue his team build and see what happens. 
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Cowher left 14 years ago.  I am curious how many seasons it took to become Tomlin's team or do you still consider it Cowher's team until Ben retires?   

 
Godsbrother said:
Cowher left 14 years ago.  I am curious how many seasons it took to become Tomlin's team or do you still consider it Cowher's team until Ben retires?   
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Yes, he did leave 14 years ago. It's been Tomlin's team for a while now, both in terms of talent and in terms of discipline.

Tomlin had the success that his entire reputation is built on in his first couple years. He won a Super Bowl in year 2 and lost a Super Bowl in year 4. Since then, as the team has become more and more in his image, the results have slipped consistently and now they're without a playoff win and two brutal playoff losses in the past four years. Throw out last year if you want to because of Ben's injury... the results have still be lacking for 10 years. This isn't a one or two year blip.

If his entire coaching career was only the last decade, I doubt he'd still have a job in most organizations based on the lack of discipline and lacking on-field results. Multiple teams have won Super Bowls more recently than the Steelers and still have had the foresight to make coaching changes since. Tomlin is still the team's coach only because ownership values stability.

 
I am just curious that if Tomlin is canned and another coach would take over and win the Super Bowl in the next two seasons, would it be the new coaches team or Tomlin's?

Just having fun with you guys.  I am done with the discussion cause I keep repeating myself.

My position is that Tomlin is a pretty good coach that hasn't done well in the postseason lately.  You can either can stick by him and hope for better next year or start over with a new HC and hope it works out. 

I am pretty sure I know which way the Steelers are going to go.

 
crushedspirit said:
I consider 2016 somewhat successful, and that's Tomlin's team.
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The funny thing is that in the past decade, that team had the best results.

And that team was an 11-5 Wild Card team that beat Matt Moore in the Wild Card round and squeaked by an Alex Smith led Chiefs team in a game where they didn't score a TD. Then they got smoked again by the Patriots.

For a team with the talent the Steelers have had for the last 10 years, for that to be our best result in a decade is disgraceful.

 
Godsbrother said:
I am just curious that if Tomlin is canned and another coach would take over and win the Super Bowl in the next two seasons, would it be the new coaches team or Tomlin's?

Just having fun with you guys.  I am done with the discussion cause I keep repeating myself.

My position is that Tomlin is a pretty good coach that hasn't done well in the postseason lately.  You can either can stick by him and hope for better next year or start over with a new HC and hope it works out. 

I am pretty sure I know which way the Steelers are going to go.
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Lately?

10 years isn't "lately" anymore. It's over 2/3 of this coaching career and just about all of the time since his team had become his team.

And if another coach can come in and win with Tomlin's roster, that would emphasize the point about Tomlin's shortcomings as a head coach. A good coach can beat you with his players, and then take your players, make them better, and beat you again with your own players.  

The difference is that Cowher was winning in his final years with his roster, and Tomlin just kept it going. Tomlin isn't winning with this roster. And you're right, we're not going to find out because he's not going anywhere, and even in some alternate reality where he would, a new coach wouldn't be coming in with a HOF QB in his prime, that's for sure. 

 
Your a product of your environment so it is probably unfair for me to criticize Steeler fans for wanting change. But I will say if the Lion’s somehow ended up with Tomlin as their head coach it would be the happiest day of my life as a Detroit fan.

 
Tomlin is a good coach, but his lack of postseason success is glaring in the last 10 years.  In the last 10 seasons (2011-2020), the coaches with the most playoff wins are below (any coach still with the chance to win more this postseason has a + after their total in parenthesis): 

Bill Belichick – 16
Pete Carroll – 9
John Harbaugh - 7 (+)
Andy Reid – 5 (+)
Sean Payton - 5 (+)
Mike McCarthy – 5
Jim Harbaugh – 5
Gary Kubiak - 5
Tom Coughlin - 4
Doug Pederson - 4

Tomlin is not only not on the list, but he has the shame of being the only coach to lose a postseason game to a team QB'd by Tim Tebow, gave up 45 points at home to a team QB'd by Blake Bortles, and just lost a home playoff game where his team was down 28-0 in the 1st quarter.  

 
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Steelers4Life said:
Lately?

10 years isn't "lately" anymore. It's over 2/3 of this coaching career and just about all of the time since his team had become his team.

And if another coach can come in and win with Tomlin's roster, that would emphasize the point about Tomlin's shortcomings as a head coach. A good coach can beat you with his players, and then take your players, make them better, and beat you again with your own players.  

The difference is that Cowher was winning in his final years with his roster, and Tomlin just kept it going. Tomlin isn't winning with this roster. And you're right, we're not going to find out because he's not going anywhere, and even in some alternate reality where he would, a new coach wouldn't be coming in with a HOF QB in his prime, that's for sure. 
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Great point.  Everyone keeps bringing up Ben, but Tomlin has coached a plethora of star-studded players even after "Cowher's Team" left.  Unless you want to give a lot of credit to Tomlin for player personnel and draft evaluation (I'll give most of it to Colbert), he's had a stacked roster compared to most coaches and he's rarely exceeded expectations given that level of talent. 

And I don't want to re-hash how many times in his coaching career he's been blatantly outcoached from a technical standpoint, in the most crucial times, most notably the playoffs.

 
crushedspirit said:
He won't be replaced, no matter what questions abound. But let's be frank about it, he won a SB with Cowher's team, and has ridden Cowher's HOF QB for years. It really is not that hard to obtain a great regular season run on the back of a HOF QB if we are to be honest. There are none of the 26 inductees that failed consistently to lead teams to great regular season records.

Part of me wants to see what he can put together without Ben.
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:no:   Sonny Jurgensen's Redskins only had one winning record (7-5-2) during the seven years that he led them.

 
crushedspirit said:
All the pro bowl pieces were in place when Ben arrived 2004. Starks was added in 2004 with Parker, and then Miller in 2005. Extra pieces that helped, but the offensive mainstays were there in Ward, El, Plaxico, and Bettis, and anchored by Faneca and Hartings blocking. The D was already in place with all pro players like Farrior and Porter, and Troy P.

Maddux was the starter, and that is laughable. 
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Plaxico's only SB ring came with the Giants.

Neither El nor Bettis played in the Super Bowl against the Cardinals (Tomlin HC)

Super Bowl MVP Santonio Holmes wasn't on the Steelers team that beat Seattle (Cowher)

I think the only OL to play (or start) for both Super Bowl teams was Max Starks 

 
Yenrub said:
Plaxico's only SB ring came with the Giants.

Neither El nor Bettis played in the Super Bowl against the Cardinals (Tomlin HC)

Super Bowl MVP Santonio Holmes wasn't on the Steelers team that beat Seattle (Cowher)

I think the only OL to play (or start) for both Super Bowl teams was Max Starks 
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The question was about what Ben walked into in 2004 with Cowher.

Your scenario is about the SB team contributors from Cowher to Tomlin, (2006 and 2009)

Offense_Ben, Parker, Ward, Nate, Starks

Defense_Harrison, Farrior, Ike, Keisel, Townsend, Carter, Foote, Hampton, Troy P, Smith

Pretty much the entire D was Bill's. We already know the play Harrison made, and then Keisel sealed it with a fumble. 

In the 2011 SB loss you have Ben and Ward on offense. Defense has Harrison, Ike, Kiesel, Troy P, Farrior, and Hampton. In 2012 it really started to change, and by 2013 there was only Ike, Troy P, and Kiesel left. Basically, the D was set up for years with **** LeBeau running the show. Since that SB loss, well, the story is what you see, a Conference Final showing. Tomlin has had about 10 years to build the team and keep the winning ways on track. 

 
crushedspirit said:
The question was about what Ben walked into in 2004 with Cowher.

Your scenario is about the SB team contributors from Cowher to Tomlin, (2006 and 2009)

Offense_Ben, Parker, Ward, Nate, Starks

Defense_Harrison, Farrior, Ike, Keisel, Townsend, Carter, Foote, Hampton, Troy P, Smith

Pretty much the entire D was Bill's. We already know the play Harrison made, and then Keisel sealed it with a fumble. 

In the 2011 SB loss you have Ben and Ward on offense. Defense has Harrison, Ike, Kiesel, Troy P, Farrior, and Hampton. In 2012 it really started to change, and by 2013 there was only Ike, Troy P, and Kiesel left. Basically, the D was set up for years with **** LeBeau running the show. Since that SB loss, well, the story is what you see, a Conference Final showing. Tomlin has had about 10 years to build the team and keep the winning ways on track. 
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10 playoffs in Cowher’s 15 years – 1 SB win, 1 SB loss

9 playoffs in Tomlin’s 14 years – 1 SB win, 1 SB loss

The winning ways seems to be on track.

How much grocery shopping do Steelers head coaches typically do?

 
Yenrub said:
10 playoffs in Cowher’s 15 years – 1 SB win, 1 SB loss

9 playoffs in Tomlin’s 14 years – 1 SB win, 1 SB loss

The winning ways seems to be on track.

How much grocery shopping do Steelers head coaches typically do?
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Cowher went to a Conference final and won a SB in Ben's first two years. That was the original point being discussed. Any Steeler fan knows with the D Cowher built, all he needed was quality QB play, which Ben delivered. The QBs Cowher had before were laughable at best. Ben was the final piece to the puzzle, and Cowher only got to enjoy him for two seasons before the motorcycle accident derailed season three.

 
Yenrub said:
10 playoffs in Cowher’s 15 years – 1 SB win, 1 SB loss

9 playoffs in Tomlin’s 14 years – 1 SB win, 1 SB loss

The winning ways seems to be on track.

How much grocery shopping do Steelers head coaches typically do?
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It's not quite that simple.

Cowher did that mostly with the likes of Kordell, Tomczack, and O'Donnell at QB, which admittedly was partly his fault. His overall playoff record was still 12-9 and in his teams appeared in 4 AFC Championship games and 1 Super Bowl (losing all of them) before Ben was drafted. In his only 2 years with Ben as his QB, they were 5-1 in the playoffs and made an AFCC and won a Super Bowl. In Cowher's last year, Ben had his motorcycle accident.

In Tomlin's first 4 years, he was also successful in the playoffs with the same core of talent that Cowher was winning with. He was 5-2 in the playoffs with a Super Bowl win and loss.

Since then, Tomlin's teams have been a train wreck in the playoffs despite having Ben and a strong roster for basically the entire time.

There's no comparison to be made between Tomlin's success and Cowher's success. Cowher was 7-8 in the playoffs with Kordell, Tomczak, and O'Donnell at QB and 5-1 with Ben as a rookie and 2nd year QB. Tomlin is 8-9 in the playoffs despite having Ben the entire time, and 3-7 in the last decade since his inherited core of talent has been replaced.

 
This is the same kind of conversation that fans of the team would have about Cowher ("They're stale. Let's fire Cowher!" "Who'd we replace him with?  Oh, I dunno, maybe Norm Chow!") for practically his entire tenure with the team.

Tomlin isn't going anywhere, and if he was fired he'd be out of a job for about 10 minutes.  I am not a Tomlin apologist (nor was I for Cowher), but that's just not how the Rooney's operate.  They aren't firing the head coach the year they won 12 games and the division, regardless of what happened in the playoffs.

Conversely, Randy Fichtner shouldn't be buying any new real estate on the North Side.   I probably wouldn't get too comfy if I were the OL coach either.

That article rubs up against Butler's contract being up too, and I've openly questioned his ability to adjust in-game prior, but I seriously doubt they purge both the OC and the DC.  Particularly given the injuries they dealt with on the defensive side.

 
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I still shudder about O'Donnell making Brown famous on two game turning picks. Steelers would have beaten a team filled with all pro players and 6 future HOF inductees, if not for Neil. He set up Dallas at the 18 and 6 yard lines for two easy short field TDs. 

 
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5-ish Finkle said:
This is the same kind of conversation that fans of the team would have about Cowher ("They're stale. Let's fire Cowher!" "Who'd we replace him with?  Oh, I dunno, maybe Norm Chow!") for practically his entire tenure with the team.

Tomlin isn't going anywhere, and if he was fired he'd be out of a job for about 10 minutes.  I am not a Tomlin apologist (nor was I for Cowher), but that's just not how the Rooney's operate.  They aren't firing the head coach the year they won 12 games and the division, regardless of what happened in the playoffs.

Conversely, Randy Fichtner shouldn't be buying any new real estate on the North Side.   I probably wouldn't get too comfy if I were the OL coach either.

That article rubs up against Butler's contract being up too, and I've openly questioned his ability to adjust in-game prior, but I seriously doubt they purge both the OC and the DC.  Particularly given the injuries they dealt with on the defensive side.
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We all know coach Tomlin is not going anywhere. We just want things fixed, no matter how, and no matter who else needs to go. 

 
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Someone with no dog in this fight (Dolphin fan), but here is my perspective:

Its hard to evaluate any coach in the Brady era in the AFC when it comes to "Did they win a championship?" If your team made it to a game where they played New England or Actually won a championship in spite of the Pats being in their way, that's like winning in expert mode. Hell, the Dolphins won the AFC only once in the Brady era and that required him getting killed for that season and Pennington falling into their lap when NY went with the Favre experiment.

Second:  How fast do you think Tomlin gets rehired if he gets canned by the Steelers?  I'd say only Bill B, Andy Reid, and Sean Payton have more cache (maybe Carroll is about the same).

Finally: Tomlin is a leader of men. He keeps their drama out of the public eye (Antonio Brown, Lev Bell) and makes it work.  I think steeler fans would be dumb to let him go.  Let the Steelers use their pick this year on a QB, give big ben one more chance to run it back, and then start over.

IMHO

 
5-ish Finkle said:
This is the same kind of conversation that fans of the team would have about Cowher ("They're stale. Let's fire Cowher!" "Who'd we replace him with?  Oh, I dunno, maybe Norm Chow!") for practically his entire tenure with the team.

Tomlin isn't going anywhere, and if he was fired he'd be out of a job for about 10 minutes.  I am not a Tomlin apologist (nor was I for Cowher), but that's just not how the Rooney's operate.  They aren't firing the head coach the year they won 12 games and the division, regardless of what happened in the playoffs.

 
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Not exactly the same. I remember those conversations about Cowher, but they were always ridiculous and if he had a fault, he didn't address the QB position enough. Cowher made 4 AFC Championship games and a Super Bowl in his first 12 years as coach, but people were griping about not getting over the hump, but that's what happens when you take on guys like Brady and Elway in AFC Championships when your QB is Kordell or O'Donnell. But he BUILT what he had. He inherited a team from Noll that was a .500 team with only 1 playoff game in the previous 7 years.

No one expects the Steelers to fire Tomlin. But multiple teams have won Super Bowls more recently than the Steelers and still made coaching changes since, and in any other winning organization, a run of playoff failures like the Steelers have had in the past decade would've cost the coach his job. Whether another team would scoop him up is irrelevant, because he'd surely be better than what some teams have. But his reputation was built on his early success and press conferences, not his last 10 years.

 
Gatorman said:
Someone with no dog in this fight (Dolphin fan), but here is my perspective:

Its hard to evaluate any coach in the Brady era in the AFC when it comes to "Did they win a championship?" If your team made it to a game where they played New England or Actually won a championship in spite of the Pats being in their way, that's like winning in expert mode. Hell, the Dolphins won the AFC only once in the Brady era and that required him getting killed for that season and Pennington falling into their lap when NY went with the Favre experiment.
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Here's a list of the teams Tomlin's teams have lost to in the playoffs. Only once have they lost to Brady and the Patriots - in the AFCC in 2016 after they beat teams led by Matt Moore and AJ McCarron. Those were 2 of his 3 playoff wins since 2011.

David Garrard and the Jaguars

Aaron Rodgers in SBXLV

Tim Tebow and the Broncos

Joe Flacco and the Ravens

Peyton Manning and the Broncos

Blake Bortles and the Jaguars

Baker Mayfield and the Browns

They weren't limited by the Patriots. They were limited by consistently poor performances in the playoffs.

 
Steelers4Life said:
Here's a list of the teams Tomlin's teams have lost to in the playoffs. Only once have they lost to Brady and the Patriots - in the AFCC in 2016 after they beat teams led by Matt Moore and AJ McCarron. Those were 2 of his 3 playoff wins since 2011.

David Garrard and the Jaguars

Aaron Rodgers in SBXLV

Tim Tebow and the Broncos

Joe Flacco and the Ravens

Peyton Manning and the Broncos

Blake Bortles and the Jaguars

Baker Mayfield and the Browns

They weren't limited by the Patriots. They were limited by consistently poor performances in the playoffs.
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Fair enough but be careful what you wish for.  Dolphin fans were all happy to show shula the door (especially with Jimmy Johnson angling for the job) and it took, what, 20 years to get a good coach again?

 
Gatorman said:
Fair enough but be careful what you wish for.  Dolphin fans were all happy to show shula the door (especially with Jimmy Johnson angling for the job) and it took, what, 20 years to get a good coach again?
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True enough, but Jimmy did provide 3 out 4 seasons of playoff football. Miami can also look at what's happened since Marino retired. He brought them to the playoffs 10 of his 16 seasons. It's no coincidence only 4 playoff appearances in the last 21 seasons since, especially when you look at some of the QBs they have had to roll with. It all went downhill after they lost two HOF coaches and a HOF QB. 

P.S. Marino is still my favorite QB of all time. That '84 season is something I will always remember. People who missed it live will probably never truly understand what he did was even more amazing when you consider how football was won, and played during that era. The best season by a QB I have ever witnessed. 

 
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