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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Commanders Thread (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter dgreen
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DallasDMac
Footballguy
Never heard of him. Sorry, it's all I got.nittanylion said:
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
Terrible hire. Uninspired and depressing choice. For all the progress made this year, this is a clear setback.nittanylion said:
Let's start with the fact that this guy has been fired twice by the Panthers and had no other interest in this year's hiring cycle. He was rumored to get the job here the minute he was fired since Ron and him go way back. Hurney actually hired Ron and had his back when Richardson wanted to fire him early on in his coaching tenure. Everything about this move screams croneyism and him being brought in simply for Ron to further consolidate power in the front office. Hurney's draft evaluation chops are extremely suspect. His first round picks have been good, but everything else has been pretty terrible.
The ONLY way I see this hire being passable is if Hurney was brought in simply to lighten Ron's load on some GM matters but Hurney stays far away from the draft room and lets Kyle Smith and his team handle 100% of the draft. Sadly, what's most likely to happen is Smith ends up leaving Washington after being passed over and will further his success at some other team like so many that have left here before him.
This is just so typical of this franchise to mess with the one aspect of this dysfunctional organization that was actually successful. The last 3 drafts Smith and his team have conducted (since he has taken over for McCloughan) have been outstanding. Was he too inexperienced for the GM role? Considering he had great success and real talent in by far the most important aspect of the role (college scouting and the draft), I find this claim dubious. Cap management isn't rocket science, and besides, teams (including the Skins) have had specific people hired in this role anyway. Further, some of the other candidates the Skins interviewed had positions similar to Kyle in their respective organizations. The fact that Smith didn't even get an interview for the job, and someone who worked under him (that Ron of course brought over from Carolina) did is a joke.
Just because Hurney isn't Bruce Allen doesn't make this a good hire. That is way too low a bar and this team needs to aim higher.
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PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Yikes i don’t know anything about him. Sounds like we hired a yes man so Snyder can say we have a gm but really it’s him?
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
Not a yes man for Snyder, but one for Ron. This is appears to be a move so Ron can consolidate power in the front office. Gives him an ability to have a unified front when going to Danny Boy when needed. Which, of course I would rather have Ron in charge than Danny, but you need voices who are willing to give dissenting opinions in any front office structure.
For as refreshing as last season was, we shouldn’t lose perspective of the fact that at the end of the day we only won 7 games (and the 7th was against a team that was actively trying to lose). Seems a bit rushed to now give Ron the keys to the castle based on that performance. The guys who are capable of running the entire show successfully are few and far between. Basically it’s Coach Hoody in New England and that’s it.
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DallasDMac
Footballguy
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-washington-could-involved-deshaun-183953349.html
No idea how good of a source the Washington Wire is.
No idea how good of a source the Washington Wire is.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
So now the Skins are bringing in Martin Mayhew in addition to Hurney?!? Mayhew is known as the architect of the Detroit Lions dynasty and the guy who drafted Eric Ebron over Aaron Donald. So now we have two former failed GM retreads instead of one. This offseason is going from bad to worse rather quickly. Regarding my earlier comments on Hurney and how it relates to Kyle Smith, I’m guessing that bringing in Mayhew in addition to Hurney is probably unfortunately the nail in the coffin for Smith’s time here. I’m sure he’ll finish out the draft this year considering all of the work that has been done on it so far, but I fully expect him to end up leaving shortly after. He will probably resurface in SF, LA, or GB (where we let three good coaches walk out the door here) and flourish. This is definitely quite the reality check from the elation over a playoff appearance just a few weeks ago.
I hope for the best, but I can see this situation going off the rails rather quickly.
The only thing I wonder about Mayhew is if this makes us more likely to make a deal for Stafford. He drafted him while he was GM in Detroit. If he is able to bring us Stafford for a reasonable price I’ll be pleasantly surprised, but I doubt this will be the case.
I hope for the best, but I can see this situation going off the rails rather quickly.
The only thing I wonder about Mayhew is if this makes us more likely to make a deal for Stafford. He drafted him while he was GM in Detroit. If he is able to bring us Stafford for a reasonable price I’ll be pleasantly surprised, but I doubt this will be the case.
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simey
Footballguy
I doubt Hurney was brought in to be Ron's yes man. That is not how their relationship worked at Carolina. They respect one another and work well together. Marty's draft this past year for the Panthers gave them two really good rookies right away in Brown and Chinn, and Gross-Matos and Roy have shown good things. Give things a chance.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
I think it gets worse. I'd hate to lose (most of) these players but understand that is what it would likely take.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/5-players-washington-might-involve-044231441.html
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
You’re the first Panthers fan I’ve heard from that’s had any praise for the guy outside of his record with 1st round picks. Most are offering their condolences. His draft record is not good and he handed out some horrific contracts down there. It also appears that the power dynamic has shifted from their time in Carolina. Like Ron said in his initial presser, this team will have a “coach-centric” power structure. And here Ron is the one bringing Hurney in, not the other way around.
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PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
This is exactly why i don’t want to do this. I like Watson but we have good young talent and trading it all away is not a good thing.
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
I honestly think that’s a pretty terrible list. It’s all just speculation of course, but who in their right mind would trade for Landon Collins at this point? Curl is the better player than him and Landon has a huge cap number. Unless he is willing to transition to linebacker (which he has refused to do in the past) he’s not even needed next season.
I could definitely see one of the defensive tackles included, and I was speculating earlier it would be Allen since he’s first to come up for an extension. Wouldn’t be a bad move for us as I doubt we can resign all members of this front 4, and Ion Man and Settle should be able to fill in for Allen. We have depth there and I would make that deal for Watson.
I honestly don’t think the Skins have that realistic of a chance of getting Watson, but with the way the front office is now shaping up, I’m feeling less confident in their drafting abilities, so at this point I might be more willing to give up the picks.
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simey
Footballguy
Have there been a lot of Panthers fans in here saying bad things about Marty? His firing was pretty quiet in the Panthers thread. Bass did say he had a good draft. pantherclub would have celebrated had he been around, but he has a bizarre unhealthy hate for Marty. Anyway, Marty did much better his second time around with the Panthers. He learned from his mistakes the first time, although not all of that was his fault as Jerry Richardson was in agreement with him on some of the those big contracts. As I said, Hurney's 2020 draft gave the Panthers two really good rookies and some promising others.
Ron's first year in Washington hasn't been smooth sailing. He has had to deal with cancer, the name change of the team, Covid, QB problems, and sexual harassment and misconduct allegations against staff before him and the owner, which I bet he never thought he'd be having to deal with again after the Richardson scandal. Having a familiar person with experience that you trust and can get positive and constructive feedback from is much needed I would think, and Marty fits that bill. It doesn't mean Marty will be the main head guy in the War Room on draft day. Let things play out before believing the sky is falling.
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
Don’t know what the Panthers thread on here is saying, just relaying what I’ve heard from other Panther fans online and some that I know in the real world. This is somewhat reassuring though to hear that you think he’s gotten better and learned from some of his past mistakes. As I said earlier, my major beef with this was interfering with the status of the Skins scouting and draft department, as it’s the one part of the franchise that has had success the last few years. If Ron needs to bring in someone as a trusted advisor, I totally get it, but I was hoping that we didn’t rehaul the the front office. With the hiring of Mayhew now in addition to Hurney, this unfortunately appears to be the case. I’ll hope for the best, but as Skins fans we’ve seen things go sideways all too often.
That article is absurd. Here is the reasoning:
1. Since WFT is close, then should try to sign Watson.
2. To sign Watson, they should trade the very players that make them "close."
I hope to God football people in Washington are not thinking this way.
It terrifies me to think Dan Snyder MAY think this way.
The only player on that list I would be cool with trading at this point is Collins, due to the emergence of Kameron Kurl. Ionnitis *maybe" and move Settle up. But dealing Chase Young, Montez Sweat or Brandon Shref? That's just stupid thinking right there. I was honestly angry reading that piece.
I think Rivera promoted Kyle Smith last year. I hope hiring Hurney and Mayhew is more to lighted the workload for Rivera. Rivera is still on top of the org chart.
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Re: Hurney -- my hope is that he was brought in to do things like contracts and whatnot. Just because GMs are traditionally guys who run the draft, doesn't mean he'll be the main personell guy. My understanding is that's still Rivera basically Hurney is HIS sounding board and then the guy who will do all the contract crap and stuff like that. Rivera is coach so he can't do full time GM duties but he can still be the main one pulling the plug on personnel.
Maybe this is just what I hope but obviously I don't know. I'm also bummed over Kyle Smith.
In general, it kind of bums me out when new guys in charge just bring in all their old people. Rivera has brought in his old OC, his old GM, his old backup QBs, etc. I get that it's important to have people you know but it's also good to diversify as well, get some fresh blood and perspectives. But I do totally get why Rivera would like his known guys. It's his team now. He had a good first year so I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt until I get burned by that...
Maybe this is just what I hope but obviously I don't know. I'm also bummed over Kyle Smith.
In general, it kind of bums me out when new guys in charge just bring in all their old people. Rivera has brought in his old OC, his old GM, his old backup QBs, etc. I get that it's important to have people you know but it's also good to diversify as well, get some fresh blood and perspectives. But I do totally get why Rivera would like his known guys. It's his team now. He had a good first year so I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt until I get burned by that...
Kevrunner
Footballguy
I hope Washington stays out of the Watson sweepstakes. He’s a great QB but realistically how can you build a team that has a legit chance at winning a Super Bowl if you are paying a QB $40 million a year (Watson’s cap hit in 2022 and 2023) and are just an average team as of today? If Watson was a free agent, I can understand wanting to make a play for him, you can always restructure contracts, but to give up 1st round picks in addition to valuable players and then pay a ton in salary, it would be a big mistake.DallasDMac said:
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
From the “other show dropping” department, it looks like Kyle Smith will be leaving in light of the front office shakeup:
https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootball/.amp/news/whats-washington-football-team-exit-plan-for-key-exec?__twitter_impression=true
This was inevitable once Ron brought in both Hurney and Mayhew into the front office. Mayhew gets the GM title, Hurney basically in Smith’s old role. It’s being reported that Smith already has interest from the Rams, Niners, Packers, and Raiders. Three winning franchises led by talented young former Skins coaches that know Smith well and his talent for drafting. Meanwhile Hurney and Mayhew had no other reported interest from other teams in this hiring cycle.
I’m hoping for the best, but I still contend the team is going to end up greatly regretting this move. The retreads the Skins brought in have a combined 5 winning seasons out of 23 as front office executives. We’ll see what happens, but I think we’ve taken a step backwards with the moves so far this offseason.
https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootball/.amp/news/whats-washington-football-team-exit-plan-for-key-exec?__twitter_impression=true
This was inevitable once Ron brought in both Hurney and Mayhew into the front office. Mayhew gets the GM title, Hurney basically in Smith’s old role. It’s being reported that Smith already has interest from the Rams, Niners, Packers, and Raiders. Three winning franchises led by talented young former Skins coaches that know Smith well and his talent for drafting. Meanwhile Hurney and Mayhew had no other reported interest from other teams in this hiring cycle.
I’m hoping for the best, but I still contend the team is going to end up greatly regretting this move. The retreads the Skins brought in have a combined 5 winning seasons out of 23 as front office executives. We’ll see what happens, but I think we’ve taken a step backwards with the moves so far this offseason.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/hogshaven/status/1352806747388391427?s=12
“Ron Rivera is assembling a brain trust in Mayhew and Hurney for one primary goal this offseason: find a long-term answer at quarterback. Based on multiple things I’ve heard, they are preparing to take a huge swing at the big names that could be available.”
“While they may not have the firepower to pull it off, Mayhew and Hurney share one thing in common: both made the right call selecting a franchise quarterback (Stafford and Newton). This is the type of unique experience Ron wanted to add to the FO (which Kyle Smith lacked)”
“Ron Rivera is assembling a brain trust in Mayhew and Hurney for one primary goal this offseason: find a long-term answer at quarterback. Based on multiple things I’ve heard, they are preparing to take a huge swing at the big names that could be available.”
“While they may not have the firepower to pull it off, Mayhew and Hurney share one thing in common: both made the right call selecting a franchise quarterback (Stafford and Newton). This is the type of unique experience Ron wanted to add to the FO (which Kyle Smith lacked)”
That is a bummer. It looks like the drafts have been very solid that past few years and Smith gets a lot of credit for that.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I'm usually a "fix the OL and build your team through the draft" type of guy, but that said it would be silly not to at least take a run at Watson.
Keep in mind this is still the same ownership that signed off on the DeAndre Hopkins trade so if they think a relationship with a player in untenable they have proven they are willing to move on without getting full "market value" in return. And with the 2021 NFL salary cap not getting the usual bump of past seasons there will likely be a smaller market for Watson than in a normal year. On top of everything else Watson(due to his no-trade clause) also has some input into where he would eventually end up. That makes the pool even smaller. For instance if I were Watson and comparing the possibility of going to NYJ and WAS I'd much rather go to WAS no matter how many 1st rounders the Jets have available to give up. WAS with Watson and that DL has a chance to run the division for awhile instead of clawing with a young, surging BUF/MIA to make the playoffs every year. It doesn't make any sense to me to force yourself out of HOU because it's being run like a dumpster fire and allow yourself to be traded..... to the JETS!? Yeah, I can see HOU wanting to deal with the Jets because they have a bunch of picks but then Watson is going to a team with no good players and no picks to get any good players in the near future.
Yeah, SOMEONE will probably be willing to offer way too much for WAS to match to acquire Watson but at this time last season I would have said the exact same thing about Hopkins. Guys like Watson and Hopkins only come available so often. If Snyder ever wanted to change the subject from his off the field problems a splashy trade for Watson would certainly do it. With Watson in a declining division I'm not even sure those future 1st rounders would be all that high anyway.
Keep in mind this is still the same ownership that signed off on the DeAndre Hopkins trade so if they think a relationship with a player in untenable they have proven they are willing to move on without getting full "market value" in return. And with the 2021 NFL salary cap not getting the usual bump of past seasons there will likely be a smaller market for Watson than in a normal year. On top of everything else Watson(due to his no-trade clause) also has some input into where he would eventually end up. That makes the pool even smaller. For instance if I were Watson and comparing the possibility of going to NYJ and WAS I'd much rather go to WAS no matter how many 1st rounders the Jets have available to give up. WAS with Watson and that DL has a chance to run the division for awhile instead of clawing with a young, surging BUF/MIA to make the playoffs every year. It doesn't make any sense to me to force yourself out of HOU because it's being run like a dumpster fire and allow yourself to be traded..... to the JETS!? Yeah, I can see HOU wanting to deal with the Jets because they have a bunch of picks but then Watson is going to a team with no good players and no picks to get any good players in the near future.
Yeah, SOMEONE will probably be willing to offer way too much for WAS to match to acquire Watson but at this time last season I would have said the exact same thing about Hopkins. Guys like Watson and Hopkins only come available so often. If Snyder ever wanted to change the subject from his off the field problems a splashy trade for Watson would certainly do it. With Watson in a declining division I'm not even sure those future 1st rounders would be all that high anyway.
ffmail4me
Footballguy
That is a great point. With the QB play we had this year (and I'm not putting down Alex, it was a miracle he could walk) we STILL won the division. Adding Watson would make us a playoff team year in and year out with the defense and young talent we've got on this roster. I am fine with giving up multiple firsts to acquire a QB with his character and all pro talents.
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
This is not a surprise and I was thinking that these front office hires could be foreshadowing a big move for a QB. There is chatter that Ron and Smith didn't see eye to eye on some matters. Ron is even quoted in one of these pressers as needing to be "on the same page" when asked about his working relationship with Kyle. Reading between the lines here, it seems that Kyle and Ron might have had different thoughts on team building going forward. Kyle, given his job, would obviously favor building through the draft and keeping draft picks. Ron might have been more in willing to give up draft capital to improve the QB position. This is a tweet from Rivera's post season presser: "Ron Rivera says QB is "one of the most important things that we need to get done and get established" going forward." https://twitter.com/kylefstackpole/status/1348317571712430088
Once the team hired Mayhew my first thought was that they are going to attempt to trade for Stafford. Mayhew drafted him after all, and might still have the Detroit connections to possibly get an inside track on a deal. Watson is a much bigger and expensive fish obviously, but I wouldn't rule that out either. I just think ultimately they won't have the trade package to get it done, as a team like Miami could easily beat WFT's best offer.
As for that second quote about Hurney making "the right call selecting a franchise QB", that's a bit laughable as any team in the league needing a QB would have taken Cam in that draft. It's like giving Kyle Smith, Ron, etc. a ton of credit for drafting Chase Young. It's a great pick but a total no brainer move.
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
Lions actively looking to trade Stafford per Shefty:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30766102/detroit-lions-actively-seek-trade-qb-matthew-stafford-sources-say
Like I said a few hours ago, I fully expect the Skins to aggressively pursue him given that they just hired the man that drafted him as their GM. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he was brought in specifically with this purpose in mind and this was part of the pitch in the interviews. I’m betting he ends up under center for the WFT next season (and the Skins will probably overpay in compensation to acquire him).
Stafford will clearly want to go to a team where he has a chance to win. Just looking at the lay of the land at QB, it would appear that the Colts would be our main competition for his services. Gentlemen, start your engines. The offseason is about to be kicked into high gear.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30766102/detroit-lions-actively-seek-trade-qb-matthew-stafford-sources-say
Like I said a few hours ago, I fully expect the Skins to aggressively pursue him given that they just hired the man that drafted him as their GM. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he was brought in specifically with this purpose in mind and this was part of the pitch in the interviews. I’m betting he ends up under center for the WFT next season (and the Skins will probably overpay in compensation to acquire him).
Stafford will clearly want to go to a team where he has a chance to win. Just looking at the lay of the land at QB, it would appear that the Colts would be our main competition for his services. Gentlemen, start your engines. The offseason is about to be kicked into high gear.
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Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
The more I think about this, the more I think the Skins are the heavy favorites to land Stafford. I think ultimately this sweepstakes will come down to WFT and the Colts. I'd bet that WFT will ultimately get it done because they will be willing to overpay like they always do. Add in the fact that they just hired Mayhew as they their GM, and it was almost a given they were going to make a run at Stafford. With Mayhew and Rivera on the same page, you know they won't need to convince Danny Boy, who is always chasing shiny objects and wanting to make splashy moves. The only question is how much can Detroit shake down from the Skins. I'm assuming the #19 this year is probably already on the table. Probably an additional 2nd and/or 3rd will be in the package as well. The fact that QBs have been having such success in their late 30s recently enhances his market value and I think will result in him getting Detroit a nice haul.
All this being said, I would definitely be in favor of trading for Stafford, as some of us were floating this idea for months now. He’s been my preferred choice at QB this whole time. I’m just sure I’ll be disappointed when I see how much we overpay to acquire him.
All this being said, I would definitely be in favor of trading for Stafford, as some of us were floating this idea for months now. He’s been my preferred choice at QB this whole time. I’m just sure I’ll be disappointed when I see how much we overpay to acquire him.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Yup. If we can get him without trading away our foundation and a significant portion of our future then cool. Otherwise continue to build. We ain’t 1 qb away yet.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
I agree 100%. He's very good IMO. You get a reasonable 2 year contract. You can give DET the 1st rounder and DeRon Payne since Ioniddis and Settle can easily fill that spot. Gets you out of a future issue with re-signing DTs. And you have a lot of $s to sign free agents, do a new contract for Jonathan Allen, re-sign Scherff (don't love him, but think he's better than finding a FA RG). and build with your other picks in the draft. Easy to eat the dead cap for Alex Smith. And if Stafford plays well this year, they can lock him up for an extension next offseason. You simply can't go into a season with K. Allen and Heinicke and expect to be much more than an 8-8 team.
Only issue to me is with Stafford's $41M for 2 year contract, lots of teams are gonna be trying to get him.
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Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
I agree that given his reasonable contract, and so many teams always think they are close to making a deep playoff run (which in fairness is often the case in this league), there will be a lot of demand for him. I would gladly give up the #19 and a 3rd for him (we have an extra one due to the Trent trade), but I don't know if that would be enough to get it done. Might require additional picks, either of the later variety (4th and/or 5th) or earlier rounds. It really wouldn't take much to get a bidding war started, and you know this team historically tends to do stupid things in those situations under Snyder.
Your idea of moving Payne is interesting. I agree that it will be tough to retain all four of these linemen and we have depth there to fill a spot. Earlier I was proposing dealing Allen in a package in the unlikely option of a Watson trade. I personally like Payne's upside more than Allen, and given that he's under team control for longer, I would rather deal Allen than Payne. That being said though, in a trade for Stafford I don't know if I would be willing to give up either. We will have a smaller window with him to win now and I would take my chances with keeping the defense intact for at least this limited run. I would rather give up the additional picks in this case.
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
I don’t love it, as I would rather give up a 3rd this year (since we have multiple) instead of a 2nd next year, but I could live with this deal. With Stafford on the team and some expected upgrades at WR next year, a 10 win season should be within reach (assuming health of course). That would place that 2nd rounder in the 20s and a lot closer to the bottom of the 2nd round.
Ostro
Footballguy
Ok, I don't know if the Guise thread was deleted or what happened. But, it looks like the charges were dropped against Guice.
https://wtop.com/washington-football/2021/01/felony-charge-dropped-against-ex-nfl-player-derrius-guice/
https://wtop.com/washington-football/2021/01/felony-charge-dropped-against-ex-nfl-player-derrius-guice/
Ostro
Footballguy
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
Well, or they just chose not to prosecute for whatever reason. He still has the 4 misdemeanor charges. Good for him, I guess? I still think Ron made the right call here. Set the tone early that the era of knuckleheads is over. We’ll see if any other teams kick the tires on him. He’s always injured and RBs are a dime a dozen in this league. I always thought the hype on him was a bit out of control.
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Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
I haven’t seen it talked about here, but did anyone else see the Alex Smith 60 minutes interview a few weeks back? It’s available online. Nothing groundbreaking if you saw the E60 piece and we all know the story. But it was interesting in the fact that he doesn’t exactly sound like he’s thinking of retirement. This is a quote from the piece:
“This year has only emboldened for me that I can play at this level”
I think most of us here were hoping he would do the sensible thing and retire, as he’s got nothing left to prove at this point. He clearly can’t be depended on to play a 16 game season, and the Skins clearly need an upgrade at QB regardless (not to mention his cap hit is too high for such diminished play). What he has accomplished is amazing but this team needs to go in a different direction at this point. He might not be making it easy for Ron here, but Ron has to do the sensible thing and cut him if he refuses to retire.
“This year has only emboldened for me that I can play at this level”
I think most of us here were hoping he would do the sensible thing and retire, as he’s got nothing left to prove at this point. He clearly can’t be depended on to play a 16 game season, and the Skins clearly need an upgrade at QB regardless (not to mention his cap hit is too high for such diminished play). What he has accomplished is amazing but this team needs to go in a different direction at this point. He might not be making it easy for Ron here, but Ron has to do the sensible thing and cut him if he refuses to retire.
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dgreen
Footballguy
Yeah, assuming they can bring in a legit starting QB, he'll be cut. Can't pay him $20m+ to be a backup. And I just don't see him getting a starting gig elsewhere. I wonder if he's willing to sign for much less and be a backup somewhere.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
He wasn't that good when he played his best. 6 TDs and 8 INTs. QBR of 34.8. The teams he beat were CIN, DAL, SF, plus a PHI that was trying to lose and a PIT team off like 4 days rest on it's way to sucking.
He may play. But WAS is not the right spot for that to happen. He's as good as cut.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Yea i like smith and hope he retires and stays on staff but gotta cut him if he wants to stay.
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
I hear you and totally agree. I just hope Ron follows through and pulls the trigger if needed. One knock on Rivera I’ve heard from Panthers fans is he can sometimes be loyal to a fault. Kind of makes sense when you look at how many Panthers he brought over with him. The Davis signing was a mistake for example. But I think Ron will end up doing the right thing here and cut Smith if he doesn’t retire.
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DallasDMac
Footballguy
Any thoughts on Goff if he becomes available, as it seems he may given recent lack of support from team leadership? I don't follow him so have no idea what folks think of him.
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
Hard pass. The guy basically had McVay calling the plays into his headset like he was McVay’s Madden controller until Coach Hoody and the Pats wrecked them in the Super Bowl. If an offensive mind like McVay can’t win with him, we have no chance here. I would rather just roll into the season with just Allen and Hienicke than bringing Goff in. He is terrible and not worth the money.
dgreen
Footballguy
McVay and Goff are 42-20 together in the regular season. Why do you say McVay can’t win with him?
If he becomes available, he should be fairly cheap so I think he could be worth adding if they miss out on one of the top guys. I wouldn’t hand him the keys and say he’s the unquestioned starter, but he could be an upgrade and maybe worth a shot to see if he can return to his previous form.
nittanylion
Footballguy
I'm not skilled with quoting posts from other Threads, so I had to copy/paste this from the Goff Thread, courtesy of @Judge Smails, some time in late December:
"Plaschke from the LA Times absolutely shredded Goff today. 39 turnovers since 2019 most in the league. Called him “Jameis Winston West”. Ouch"
Hard pass, indeed. As I'm a glutton for punishment, I religiously follow the careers of every Coach and Player who leaves the WFTskins for greener, or otherwise, pastures. Sean McVay is young, and is very confident in himself (I'm not criticizing him for either characteristic) , but these things sometimes impede him from reaching his ceiling, but the guy is a proven offensive whiz kid, with a complex offense that he's dying to unlock, and Goff has proven to be an impediment to that goal. Most seasons under the McVay/Goff tandem, the Rams have been blessed with the ability to run the ball effectively, an above-average-to elite WR corps and are supported by and above-average-to-elite defense. That they've achieved the record they have with Goff under center has, much of the time, been in spite of Goff, rather than because of him. Just look at the game logs. Then go look at some game footage. The guy makes some incomprehensibly stupid decisions at times. Often, he does these things in situations where there are no mitigating factors. The salary cap #'s look like they'd be prohibitive to calling his acquisition a wise move, as well. I think the Rams would love it if Bruce was still calling the shots in the personnel department here. I can't imagine Goff producing much more than what the Allen/Heinecke tandem will be able to do with one more year in the scheme. I'd much rather stand pat at the position and fortify other positions of need that acquire a QB of Jared Goff's caliber, thank you very much.
While I'm at it, I'd like to reiterate something I brought up a page or two back: the 2021 Schedule. the 2021 'first place' schedule.
Home: Cowboys, Eagles, Giants, Buccaneers, Saints, Seahawks, Chiefs, Chargers
Away: Cowboys, Eagles, Giants, Falcons, Panthers, Packers, Broncos Raiders
In addition, various outlets are reporting that the proposed 2021 proposed 17-game schedule would have our extra game be against a first-place Team from an AFC Division, namely the AFC East Champion Buffalo Bills.
The WFTskins just finished playing a 4th place schedule, and finished a suspect 7-9. I have to say, the fanboy in me wants to look at things in a vacuum at times, and in this case, that means 'wow, we improved from 3-13 to 7-9 in our first season under Ron Rivera!' ...but, if we take off the rose-colored glasses and scrutinize the Season, it wasn't exactly a hard-charging 7-9, was it? ...and we backed into the playoffs courtesy of an undermanned Eagles Team that had us on the ropes before throwing in the towel in the second half. If NFL playoff berths were hypothetically based on merit, the Cardinals should have gotten a guaranteed berth, and the WFTskins should have had to face the Bears in a play-in game for the 7th Seed.
With the 2021 schedule they've been gifted with, courtesy of being NFC East Division Champions
, the WFTskins are more than a NFL starting-caliber QB away from a second consecutive Division Title, much less a playoff berth. That schedule is a freaking Murderer's Row. They absolutely need to address QB, but in addition, they need to upgrade from Peyton Barber, they need both a better #2 and #3 WR, they need better pass blocking on the O-Line, they need a playmaking 2-way LB, and a starting-caliber DB to even hope to take the field against the majority of those opponents, and compete, much less win. The Bucs game had it's moments, but it revealed a Team with plenty of flaws that still has plenty of work to do, and the 2021 slate is not exactly the type of crucible in which a team at their stage of development is conducive to being forged.
Looking at that absolutely brutal schedule from an analytics perspective, the realistic goal for 2021 should be to continue to build a proper NFL Roster, and compete well enough to achieve .500 vs the Division, and somehow manage to cobble 4-6 wins vs the remaining opponents for a 7-10 to 9-8 record, and likely not go to the playoffs. Then, playing a second-or-third-place schedule, with a much better, and deeper Roster, in 2022, starting a nice run of sustained success. I'd be really, really pleased with that outcome.
My take may be a pessimistic one, but I think my pessimism is well-placed. Despite the depressing diatribe, I'm cautiously optimistic about the direction the Team is headed in. Things feel good, and for the first time in, well...forever, it seems like. I just think there's a need to look at things for what they are, and not get ahead of ourselves. We seem to be headed in the right direction, but there's still plenty of work to do, and this isn't exactly the schedule which our Team, at this stage of it's development, should have unreasonable goals, or expectations.
"Plaschke from the LA Times absolutely shredded Goff today. 39 turnovers since 2019 most in the league. Called him “Jameis Winston West”. Ouch"
Hard pass, indeed. As I'm a glutton for punishment, I religiously follow the careers of every Coach and Player who leaves the WFTskins for greener, or otherwise, pastures. Sean McVay is young, and is very confident in himself (I'm not criticizing him for either characteristic) , but these things sometimes impede him from reaching his ceiling, but the guy is a proven offensive whiz kid, with a complex offense that he's dying to unlock, and Goff has proven to be an impediment to that goal. Most seasons under the McVay/Goff tandem, the Rams have been blessed with the ability to run the ball effectively, an above-average-to elite WR corps and are supported by and above-average-to-elite defense. That they've achieved the record they have with Goff under center has, much of the time, been in spite of Goff, rather than because of him. Just look at the game logs. Then go look at some game footage. The guy makes some incomprehensibly stupid decisions at times. Often, he does these things in situations where there are no mitigating factors. The salary cap #'s look like they'd be prohibitive to calling his acquisition a wise move, as well. I think the Rams would love it if Bruce was still calling the shots in the personnel department here. I can't imagine Goff producing much more than what the Allen/Heinecke tandem will be able to do with one more year in the scheme. I'd much rather stand pat at the position and fortify other positions of need that acquire a QB of Jared Goff's caliber, thank you very much.
While I'm at it, I'd like to reiterate something I brought up a page or two back: the 2021 Schedule. the 2021 'first place' schedule.
Home: Cowboys, Eagles, Giants, Buccaneers, Saints, Seahawks, Chiefs, Chargers
Away: Cowboys, Eagles, Giants, Falcons, Panthers, Packers, Broncos Raiders
In addition, various outlets are reporting that the proposed 2021 proposed 17-game schedule would have our extra game be against a first-place Team from an AFC Division, namely the AFC East Champion Buffalo Bills.
The WFTskins just finished playing a 4th place schedule, and finished a suspect 7-9. I have to say, the fanboy in me wants to look at things in a vacuum at times, and in this case, that means 'wow, we improved from 3-13 to 7-9 in our first season under Ron Rivera!' ...but, if we take off the rose-colored glasses and scrutinize the Season, it wasn't exactly a hard-charging 7-9, was it? ...and we backed into the playoffs courtesy of an undermanned Eagles Team that had us on the ropes before throwing in the towel in the second half. If NFL playoff berths were hypothetically based on merit, the Cardinals should have gotten a guaranteed berth, and the WFTskins should have had to face the Bears in a play-in game for the 7th Seed.
With the 2021 schedule they've been gifted with, courtesy of being NFC East Division Champions
, the WFTskins are more than a NFL starting-caliber QB away from a second consecutive Division Title, much less a playoff berth. That schedule is a freaking Murderer's Row. They absolutely need to address QB, but in addition, they need to upgrade from Peyton Barber, they need both a better #2 and #3 WR, they need better pass blocking on the O-Line, they need a playmaking 2-way LB, and a starting-caliber DB to even hope to take the field against the majority of those opponents, and compete, much less win. The Bucs game had it's moments, but it revealed a Team with plenty of flaws that still has plenty of work to do, and the 2021 slate is not exactly the type of crucible in which a team at their stage of development is conducive to being forged.Looking at that absolutely brutal schedule from an analytics perspective, the realistic goal for 2021 should be to continue to build a proper NFL Roster, and compete well enough to achieve .500 vs the Division, and somehow manage to cobble 4-6 wins vs the remaining opponents for a 7-10 to 9-8 record, and likely not go to the playoffs. Then, playing a second-or-third-place schedule, with a much better, and deeper Roster, in 2022, starting a nice run of sustained success. I'd be really, really pleased with that outcome.
My take may be a pessimistic one, but I think my pessimism is well-placed. Despite the depressing diatribe, I'm cautiously optimistic about the direction the Team is headed in. Things feel good, and for the first time in, well...forever, it seems like. I just think there's a need to look at things for what they are, and not get ahead of ourselves. We seem to be headed in the right direction, but there's still plenty of work to do, and this isn't exactly the schedule which our Team, at this stage of it's development, should have unreasonable goals, or expectations.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Vegas odds on landing spot for Stafford:
- Indianapolis Colts 3/1
- San Francisco 49ers 7/2
- Denver Broncos 9/2
- New England Patriots 5/1
- Washington 6/1
- Carolina Panthers 8/1
- Las Vegas Raiders 10/1
- Los Angeles Rams 11/1
- Houston Texans 12/1
- Dallas Cowboys 14/1
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NightStalkers
Footballguy
One thing about schedules. The rest of the division plays the same 14 games as WFT. The only games that are different are Green Bay and Seattle. The rest of the games are identical just home and away variance... The NFC East will play the NFC South, AFC West, and their normal division games for the other 14 games no matter where you finish...I'm not skilled with quoting posts from other Threads, so I had to copy/paste this from the Goff Thread, courtesy of @Judge Smails, some time in late December:
"Plaschke from the LA Times absolutely shredded Goff today. 39 turnovers since 2019 most in the league. Called him “Jameis Winston West”. Ouch"
Hard pass, indeed. As I'm a glutton for punishment, I religiously follow the careers of every Coach and Player who leaves the WFTskins for greener, or otherwise, pastures. Sean McVay is young, and is very confident in himself (I'm not criticizing him for either characteristic) , but these things sometimes impede him from reaching his ceiling, but the guy is a proven offensive whiz kid, with a complex offense that he's dying to unlock, and Goff has proven to be an impediment to that goal. Most seasons under the McVay/Goff tandem, the Rams have been blessed with the ability to run the ball effectively, an above-average-to elite WR corps and are supported by and above-average-to-elite defense. That they've achieved the record they have with Goff under center has, much of the time, been in spite of Goff, rather than because of him. Just look at the game logs. Then go look at some game footage. The guy makes some incomprehensibly stupid decisions at times. Often, he does these things in situations where there are no mitigating factors. The salary cap #'s look like they'd be prohibitive to calling his acquisition a wise move, as well. I think the Rams would love it if Bruce was still calling the shots in the personnel department here. I can't imagine Goff producing much more than what the Allen/Heinecke tandem will be able to do with one more year in the scheme. I'd much rather stand pat at the position and fortify other positions of need that acquire a QB of Jared Goff's caliber, thank you very much.
While I'm at it, I'd like to reiterate something I brought up a page or two back: the 2021 Schedule. the 2021 'first place' schedule.
Home: Cowboys, Eagles, Giants, Buccaneers, Saints, Seahawks, Chiefs, Chargers
Away: Cowboys, Eagles, Giants, Falcons, Panthers, Packers, Broncos Raiders
In addition, various outlets are reporting that the proposed 2021 proposed 17-game schedule would have our extra game be against a first-place Team from an AFC Division, namely the AFC East Champion Buffalo Bills.
The WFTskins just finished playing a 4th place schedule, and finished a suspect 7-9. I have to say, the fanboy in me wants to look at things in a vacuum at times, and in this case, that means 'wow, we improved from 3-13 to 7-9 in our first season under Ron Rivera!' ...but, if we take off the rose-colored glasses and scrutinize the Season, it wasn't exactly a hard-charging 7-9, was it? ...and we backed into the playoffs courtesy of an undermanned Eagles Team that had us on the ropes before throwing in the towel in the second half. If NFL playoff berths were hypothetically based on merit, the Cardinals should have gotten a guaranteed berth, and the WFTskins should have had to face the Bears in a play-in game for the 7th Seed.
With the 2021 schedule they've been gifted with, courtesy of being NFC East Division Champions
Looking at that absolutely brutal schedule from an analytics perspective, the realistic goal for 2021 should be to continue to build a proper NFL Roster, and compete well enough to achieve .500 vs the Division, and somehow manage to cobble 4-6 wins vs the remaining opponents for a 7-10 to 9-8 record, and likely not go to the playoffs. Then, playing a second-or-third-place schedule, with a much better, and deeper Roster, in 2022, starting a nice run of sustained success. I'd be really, really pleased with that outcome.
My take may be a pessimistic one, but I think my pessimism is well-placed. Despite the depressing diatribe, I'm cautiously optimistic about the direction the Team is headed in. Things feel good, and for the first time in, well...forever, it seems like. I just think there's a need to look at things for what they are, and not get ahead of ourselves. We seem to be headed in the right direction, but there's still plenty of work to do, and this isn't exactly the schedule which our Team, at this stage of it's development, should have unreasonable goals, or expectations.
dgreen
Footballguy
I thought I heard they’re going to 17 games next year with the additional game being against the same place finish in an AFC division. So they’ll get another first place AFC team. But, yes, to your point, it’s still largely the same schedule as the others in the division. It might matter. It might not.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Yes. I'm also surprised Dallas isn't slightly higher on the list. Jerry might want him just to keep Washington from getting him.
nittanylion
Footballguy
If the 17-game schedule moves forward (and at this point, given how much money the Owners lost via the C-19 crisis, I don't see how it doesn't), the plan appears to be for the NFC East to play the AFC East, place by place. The 1st place WFTskins will play the Bills, site to be determined.
The remaining NE/AE matchups: Giants v Dolphins, Cowboys v Patriots and Eagles v Jets.
If we look at UN-common opponents, it shakes out like this:
WFTskins: Packers, Seahawks, Bills
Giants: Bears, Rams, Dolphins
Cowboys: Vikings, Cardinals, Patriots
Eagles: Lions, 49'ers, Jets
Sans rose-colored glasses, it's not unlikely our boys post an 0-3 mark vs that slate no matter where the games are played. IMHO, the Giants and Cowboys could find 1 win from their group, and the Eagles, likely 2. I don't think any Team in our Division is going to be demonstrably better than the others, and it's not outside the realm of possibility that everyone goes roughly 7-7 vs common opponents, including 3-3 inside the Division. That could yield a 8-9 win 1st place finish. At that point, the Uncommon Opponent schedule starts carrying significant weight, and likely works against the B&G. Don't win the Division, don't get the auto-bid, and get thrown into the mix of 12 Teams competing for 3 WC berths. Assuming Brady doesn't retire, Packers and Bucs are auto-in 1-2. Don't like our odds coming out of a mix that includes 2 other Division mates, the Vikings, the Saints and the entire NFC West...and who knows if the Bears, Lions, Panthers and Falcons take the steps necessary to be in the hunt?
Cautious optimism that our boys are moving in the right direction. Absolutely making progress, but still a work in progress. One could argue that every NFCE Team is a work in progress. From where I see it, though, the B&G have more work to do than the other 3. I wouldn't at all view it as a regression if we posted a 7-8-9 win tally in 2021, as long as it was a fighting 7-8-9 wins vs a tougher schedule than 2020. Barring a stellar free agency, draft and growth (certainly all within the realm of possibility), I'll continue to see this Team's event horizon for sustained success hitting it's stride no earlier than 2022. If they consistently compete 2021 in a respectable manner, I will be quite happy with that outcome.
The remaining NE/AE matchups: Giants v Dolphins, Cowboys v Patriots and Eagles v Jets.
If we look at UN-common opponents, it shakes out like this:
WFTskins: Packers, Seahawks, Bills
Giants: Bears, Rams, Dolphins
Cowboys: Vikings, Cardinals, Patriots
Eagles: Lions, 49'ers, Jets
Sans rose-colored glasses, it's not unlikely our boys post an 0-3 mark vs that slate no matter where the games are played. IMHO, the Giants and Cowboys could find 1 win from their group, and the Eagles, likely 2. I don't think any Team in our Division is going to be demonstrably better than the others, and it's not outside the realm of possibility that everyone goes roughly 7-7 vs common opponents, including 3-3 inside the Division. That could yield a 8-9 win 1st place finish. At that point, the Uncommon Opponent schedule starts carrying significant weight, and likely works against the B&G. Don't win the Division, don't get the auto-bid, and get thrown into the mix of 12 Teams competing for 3 WC berths. Assuming Brady doesn't retire, Packers and Bucs are auto-in 1-2. Don't like our odds coming out of a mix that includes 2 other Division mates, the Vikings, the Saints and the entire NFC West...and who knows if the Bears, Lions, Panthers and Falcons take the steps necessary to be in the hunt?
Cautious optimism that our boys are moving in the right direction. Absolutely making progress, but still a work in progress. One could argue that every NFCE Team is a work in progress. From where I see it, though, the B&G have more work to do than the other 3. I wouldn't at all view it as a regression if we posted a 7-8-9 win tally in 2021, as long as it was a fighting 7-8-9 wins vs a tougher schedule than 2020. Barring a stellar free agency, draft and growth (certainly all within the realm of possibility), I'll continue to see this Team's event horizon for sustained success hitting it's stride no earlier than 2022. If they consistently compete 2021 in a respectable manner, I will be quite happy with that outcome.
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