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QB Deshaun Watson - dealing with a lingering minor injury


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29 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

Outside of the sheer number of accusations, the fact that he hasnt said anything in a week or so is telling to me.  If this was happening to me and it was false wouldnt you be in front of every news camera denying it?

No. His lawyer is almost certainly telling him to keep quiet. They’ll have a chance at a response. 

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10 hours ago, GregR said:

While it would be nice if Watson didn't do this stuff... count me in that I'm having a tough time envisioning a scenario he's hiring all of these different women for just a massage.

If I find someone who does a good job I stick with them. And if I tried this many people and they sucked I probably wouldn't keep reaching out via Instagram, etc.

I think this is EXACTLY what he was reaching out for. 🥺

 

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Certainly some odd things to this case(s), as mentioned by many and discussed extensively. 

However, one of the things that keeps getting mention that doesn't make sense to me is the "No Lawsuits Filed!" angle. Statistically, women who are victims of far worse abuse don't even come forward. This is (allegedly) a wealthy, powerful man acting inappropriately in a closed/controlled setting. These women would certainly know they have little chance at a single accusation AND would have to worry about destroying their own name/brand/business in the process. 

EDIT: Leaving original post, but I did mean "No Police Reports Filed!" as there are multiple lawsuits filed. (thanks kittenmittens!)

Edited by Flying Elvis
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1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

Well the Houston PD definitely received evidence and other materials yesterday.  A wealthy established lawyer like Buzbee would not mislead the public with one of his statements.  I'm shocked we haven't seen him announce that the items have been dropped off on Instagram.  Everyone reported that Buzbee plans to drop off the materials on Monday and nobody has reported that he did it from what I can find.  If he did drop it off and it contains damning evidence, how long would it normally take for Houston PD to respond?

PFT did a segment where they were saying it's normal for an NFL player to get daily massages, but NOT normal at all for them to use different masseuses.  Like many of us suggested here we wondered why you wouldn't just find one good one who knows how your body responds and keep them - especially during COVID.  That makes a lot of sense.

PFT also brought up that it is suspicious that none of these women are using a different lawyer and also agreed with what has been posted here about some of the items Buzbee said being thinly veiled BS.  Florio thought other lawyers would be all over this by now.  Where are all the other lawyers bringing these cases in a very competitive field?  He said it's likely in the best interest of some of the accusers to be using a different lawyer.

Another good point is that Watson's camp being quiet is completely destroying them in the court of public opinion.

I'd also point out that as the list of accusers grows, the chances that they all remain anonymous goes down, mathematically speaking.  Once one or two come forward and have a face I would assume that is really bad for Watson's PR battle here and shuts down any "the women might be fake" claims.

 

 

About them all using one lawyer: After the first lawsuit was filed, Buzzby basically asked for anyone who had similar experiences to contact him. That is why the plaintiffs are all represented by him, he is the one who asked them to come forward. Plus, I was listening to one attorney yesterday who said Buzzby's strategy is pretty apparent and could be very effective. If you read all of the lawsuits, they all sound very similar. Well, they are similar, but they are also written to sound that way so that Buzzby can convince a judge that there is an established pattern, and therefore, Buzzby can introduce other plaintiffs into each lawsuit. Without that each lawsuit is individual, and each lawsuit is hard to win because it is he said/she said and there is probably not enough evidence to win. But if a lawsuit has the support of 13 other plaintiffs who have filed lawsuits claiming almost the same thing that the original plaintiff is alleging, than all of a sudden, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that there is more than a 50% chance that the event actually happened the way the plaintiff says.

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1 minute ago, Flying Elvis said:

Certainly some odd things to this case(s), as mentioned by many and discussed extensively. 

However, one of the things that keeps getting mention that doesn't make sense to me is the "No Lawsuits Filed!" angle. Statistically, women who are victims of far worse abuse don't even come forward. This is (allegedly) a wealthy, powerful man acting inappropriately in a closed/controlled setting. These women would certainly know they have little chance at a single accusation AND would have to worry about destroying their own name/brand/business in the process. 

You mean the no criminal cases filed?

Yes, and would you really want to face the kind of questions you face from the opposing legal team just to serve justice?  I think many women do not.  It might be worth a large settlement, especially if they can remain anonymous, but not worth going through the turmoil of a criminal proceeding for a lot of reasons.

 

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Just now, dhockster said:

About them all using one lawyer: After the first lawsuit was filed, Buzzby basically asked for anyone who had similar experiences to contact him. That is why the plaintiffs are all represented by him, he is the one who asked them to come forward. Plus, I was listening to one attorney yesterday who said Buzzby's strategy is pretty apparent and could be very effective. If you read all of the lawsuits, they all sound very similar. Well, they are similar, but they are also written to sound that way so that Buzzby can convince a judge that there is an established pattern, and therefore, Buzzby can introduce other plaintiffs into each lawsuit. Without that each lawsuit is individual, and each lawsuit is hard to win because it is he said/she said and there is probably not enough evidence to win. But if a lawsuit has the support of 13 other plaintiffs who have filed lawsuits claiming almost the same thing that the original plaintiff is alleging, than all of a sudden, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that there is more than a 50% chance that the event actually happened the way the plaintiff says.

I get that angle, but Florio (a lawyer also, not sure what type) is suggesting that this is not normal.  I would think a different lawyer for a different victim could also reference these cases even though they are not represented by the same person?

 

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3 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

You mean the no criminal cases filed?

Yes, and would you really want to face the kind of questions you face from the opposing legal team just to serve justice?  I think many women do not.  It might be worth a large settlement, especially if they can remain anonymous, but not worth going through the turmoil of a criminal proceeding for a lot of reasons.

 

You are correct, I added an edit to my original post. I meant police reports/complaints/charges, not lawsuits. Thanks!

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1 hour ago, ghostguy123 said:

Why are people talking about a character change?

You guys dont know Deshaun Watson at all and never have

To be fair, most of us don’t, and never will, know the Dalai Lama, but should we discover his fetish for deep taint messages and surprise rollover ejax I think it would be fair to say a character change appeared to have taken place. 

Edited by satch
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1 minute ago, satch said:

To be fair, most of us don’t, and never will, know the Dalai Lama, but should we discover his fetish for deep taint messages and surprise rollover ejax I think we could safely assume a character change had taken place. 

It wouldn't be a change, it would be a reveal. 

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3 minutes ago, Apple Juice said:

It wouldn't be a change, it would be a reveal. 

This.

It's a shame it takes a bunch of people to come forward.  Had the first one come forward and "won" then maybe all the others wouldn't have had to go through it.

I certainly understand why people dont come forward though.  

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2 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

This.

It's a shame it takes a bunch of people to come forward.  Had the first one come forward and "won" then maybe all the others wouldn't have had to go through it.

I certainly understand why people dont come forward though.  

If that happened only one person would stand to get money from Watson.

Edited by JohnnyU
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2 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

If that happened only one person would stand to get money from Watson.

So with everything is out there, you're highly skeptical and are leaning towards these women being gold diggers. That's your position?

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5 minutes ago, Apple Juice said:

 

So with everything is out there, you're highly skeptical and are leaning towards these women being gold diggers. That's your position?

I don't have a position.  I'll just wait and see what comes out in the wash. To be honest, I would rather not know and just read a final blurb of what happened.  All of this stuff is so depressing.

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The 14th lawsuit filed against Deshaun Watson for sexual misconduct calls the Texans quarterback a "serial predator." 

The newest lawsuit against Watson, filed Monday night in Harris County, alleges Watson "assaulted and harassed Plaintiff by exposing himself to her and touching her with his penis." The suit was filed by a traveling massage therapist who said the incident happened in California. All of the lawsuits against Watson have similar disturbing allegations. While Watson's attorney has said the allegations against the quarterback are "meritless," the NFL is now looking into the allegations. If Watson faces criminal charges in the coming months, he could land on the Commissioner’s Exempt List and miss some or all of the 2021 season. 

SOURCE: ESPN.com 

Mar 23, 2021, 10:46 AM ET

 

 

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1 hour ago, Foosball God said:

Tiger Woods?

You don’t remember when his marriage fell apart & it came out that he’d had like 1,379 affairs?

Before that he had a squeaky clean reputation. 

Just making the point that maybe we don’t know what we thing we know about celebrity/athletes. 

ETA: oh, sorry - I brought up Tiger earlier, and because of the new truncated quote post feature i thought you were questioning that response, when really you were making the same point.  
 

so yes, we are in agreement 100%

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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2 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

You don’t remember when his marriage fell apart & it came out that he’d had like 1,379 affairs?

Before that he had a squeaky clean reputation. 

Just making the point that maybe we don’t know what we thing we know about celebrity/athletes. 

I liked it better when we didn't know so much about athletes. 

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

I liked it better when we didn't know so much about athletes. 

Never meet your heroes.

unless your hero is Billy F. Gibbons, because that man is as cool as the day is long. 

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32 minutes ago, dhockster said:

About them all using one lawyer: After the first lawsuit was filed, Buzzby basically asked for anyone who had similar experiences to contact him. That is why the plaintiffs are all represented by him, he is the one who asked them to come forward. Plus, I was listening to one attorney yesterday who said Buzzby's strategy is pretty apparent and could be very effective. If you read all of the lawsuits, they all sound very similar. Well, they are similar, but they are also written to sound that way so that Buzzby can convince a judge that there is an established pattern, and therefore, Buzzby can introduce other plaintiffs into each lawsuit. Without that each lawsuit is individual, and each lawsuit is hard to win because it is he said/she said and there is probably not enough evidence to win. But if a lawsuit has the support of 13 other plaintiffs who have filed lawsuits claiming almost the same thing that the original plaintiff is alleging, than all of a sudden, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that there is more than a 50% chance that the event actually happened the way the plaintiff says.

I don't think Buzzbee is a criminal attorney.

Civil trials are different but in a criminal case I would think the approach he took tainted some of the following accusers testimony because he publicly listed details of the original complaint before the other accusations.

What I'm trying to say is if he never listed the details of the first accusation and following accusations were similar it would be very damning for Watson. Now his attorney's can argue that the following accusations were made after the original accusation was made public and it's no coincidence they all now line up as mainly similar.

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3 minutes ago, menobrown said:

I don't think Buzzbee is a criminal attorney.

Civil trials are different but in a criminal case I would think the approach he took tainted some of the following accusers testimony because he publicly listed details of the original complaint before the other accusations.

What I'm trying to say is if he never listed the details of the first accusation and following accusations were similar it would be very damning for Watson. Now his attorney's can argue that the following accusations were made after the original accusation was made public and it's no coincidence they all now line up as mainly similar.

Fair point. Of course Watson's only defense in this case is that the plaintiffs are not credible, so using anything they can to support that they might not be credible only makes sense. If the majority of these women come off as credible under cross examination, whether in a deposition or a courtroom, Watson's team might seriously have to consider settling.

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8 minutes ago, dhockster said:

Fair point. Of course Watson's only defense in this case is that the plaintiffs are not credible, so using anything they can to support that they might not be credible only makes sense. If the majority of these women come off as credible under cross examination, whether in a deposition or a courtroom, Watson's team might seriously have to consider settling.

IMO the next steps are the most critical for both parties.

1. Reportedly the attorney for the women has asked for a grand jury to be convened. If a judge finds the evidence to be credible/compelling enough for that, it signals some trouble but not necessarily doomsday (cue famous quote about indicting a ham sandwich) 

2. Attorney has asked for police to open an investigation. If the police view attorney’s evidence / testimony & deem it credible, that’s probably game over for Watson. If they do not, this is still very much up in the air as to possible outcomes. 

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3 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Has anything come out from the Houston PD?  I would think they would make a statement that they are investigating if they received a bunch of damning evidence?  Maybe nobody in journalism has asked them...

 

I’m sure everyone has asked them - but I’m a high profile case they aren’t going to announce anything unless they’ve done their due diligence & determined that a crime has been committed & moreover, there’s enough evidence / credible testimony to pursue an investigation. 

Short of that, I doubt they say anything other than “no comment”. Even after it’s been opened you’re likely to hear, “we don’t comment on open investigations”

 

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13 minutes ago, dhockster said:

Fair point. Of course Watson's only defense in this case is that the plaintiffs are not credible,

or that they’re credible, but that there was consent. 

It’s skeezy, but a perfectly acceptable defense to say he hired / flew in amateur masseuses for a rub & tug. 

He might get a ticket for solicitation of prostitution, be put on probation & be required to attend some sort of “don’t engage in prostitution” classes, but that would likely be the end of it if he can prove the claim. 

I’m not saying this happened - I’m saying it’s an alternate defense, especially if one of them has his DNA (which I don’t discount at all) 
 

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Just now, Razors Edge said:

Yes. Is naivety and believing women as if we those of us who grew up with 5 sisters and a single mother dont know they just sit and make up stories, is that your position? lol

Is the better position just believing women without evidence cuz they say so when a lawyer begs people to contact him and make up stories? 

We don’t know if there’s evidence or not.
 

I play devil’s advocate in here a lot & have stated that your position is a possibility. However my default is not “accuse the accusers with certainty”.

it’s possible. It’s less likely than the truth being somewhere in the middle (solicitation, agreement, shakedown) or outright multiple assaults.

This will be somewhere on that spectrum, but as others have suggested, the idea that 13+ people can keep a conspiracy going without cracking seems pretty far fetched. 

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4 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Yes. Is naivety and believing women as if we those of us who grew up with 5 sisters and a single mother dont know they just sit and make up stories, is that your position? lol

Is the better position just believing women without evidence cuz they say so when a lawyer begs people to contact him and make up stories? 

 

:bag:

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18 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Has anything come out from the Houston PD?  I would think they would make a statement that they are investigating if they received a bunch of damning evidence?  Maybe nobody in journalism has asked them...

 

Found it - HPD says:

Quote

Late Monday afternoon, Houston police said they have not launched a criminal investigation into the claims, because a complainant has not come forward.

 

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8 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

This is what frustrates me, is after all we witnessed. I for one never thought people would like to hide a pandemic that was so obvious, but...it happened. 

no, it didn’t. No one hid a pandemic. Some conspiracy theorists convinced a lot of folks that it wasn’t real, or wasn’t as bad as it was. But the vast majority of the nation saw the pandemic for what it was. Especially when the body count started getting more significant. 

Quote

Start coming to reality that running cons to make a buck is the ultimate American 2021 thing. See game stop...

That was a great conspiracy, was it not? 
 

no, it was not. At all. It was widely known that huge brokerage firms manipulate the market all the time, shorting stocks, rallying stocks, tanking stocks - these were all well known practices. What happened with GME was a reddit forum got millions of individuals to purchase small amounts of the stock to rally the price, beating the everloving snot out of the 1-2 massive brokerage firms that shorted 120% of it.

They used the exact same technique as the brokerage firms use. Not at all a conspiracy - it all happened out in the open, posted to reddit forums & seeped to other social media. 

there’s nothing remotely analogous to the Watson situation.  

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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Just now, kittenmittens said:

To be fair, a certain nation state did try and caused it to be this bad.

That's not the topic at all here though.

Briefly, yes - until video spread like wildfire. I was seeing videos of [country] putting tanks in front of tunnels, blocking roads, and people dying in the streets like a zombie movie in December, 2+ months before it came here.

but point taken, and agreed - has f-all to do With Watson. Massive reach. 

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10 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Exactly, and with 14 accusations and no charges yet even today...if there was some, he would be arrested.

Reality folks, come to grips with it. They want a grand jury to benefit their rhetoric cuz normal folk believe 14 women if they say the same made up thing, see this thread for proof.

You somehow managed to divine the 100% opposite point than the one I was making. Weird. 

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And now you see why women are hesitant to come forward, you have 13 of them saying the same thing and still there is a not insignificant amount of people who assume they are just trying to hustle a buck from a poor hardworking millionaire.  To be clear everything should be vetted before Watson's career is impacted, but damn can you imagine how hard it is for the 1st woman to come forward is.  People calling you a whore, should have known better, etc.

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Charles Robinson @CharlesRobinson

A lot of questions about whether these lawsuits are a coordinated conspiracy against #Texans’ Deshaun Watson. Any answer to that is speculative. But the allegations are from 14 different women from 3 different states. If this is a conspiracy, I’d think litigation will unearth it.

https://twitter.com/charlesrobinson/status/1374380739597266951?s=21

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1 hour ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

or that they’re credible, but that there was consent. 

It’s skeezy, but a perfectly acceptable defense to say he hired / flew in amateur masseuses for a rub & tug. 

He might get a ticket for solicitation of prostitution, be put on probation & be required to attend some sort of “don’t engage in prostitution” classes, but that would likely be the end of it if he can prove the claim. 

I’m not saying this happened - I’m saying it’s an alternate defense, especially if one of them has his DNA (which I don’t discount at all) 
 

I am assuming right now that all of the 14 woman massaged Desean one time except for the woman who agreed to massage him a second time but didn't know it was Desean she was massaging the second time. That assumption may not be correct but it is what I am believing right now. If that is true, than if all of them were consensual, wouldn't he have asked to use them again and wouldn't at least some them agreed because they were fine with it the first time? Again, not proof of anything but what seems reasonable based on what we think we know right now. Isn't speculation fun?

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1 hour ago, Flying Elvis said:

EDIT: Leaving original post, but I did mean "No Police Reports Filed!" as there are multiple lawsuits filed. (thanks kittenmittens!)

I'd normally be dubious about that as well but I think even if 90% of what he is accused is true it makes total sense to me that no one went to the police and not just because he's famous.

So you got one person making what reads to me as a very shaky claim of forced oral sex which apparently caused her so much grief she passed out and defecated on herself. That's a whole other accusation and for now let's put that one away.

But what almost every single one of the accusations was consistent with saying he got naked, aroused, and he liked to make his penis touch them and this often led to him ejaculating.(which if true sounds like Watson has a sexual condition known as Frotteurism)

Now put yourself in the massage therapist situation and assume this is exactly how it went down. Even if Watson was just some regular joe would you go to the police over that? I wouldn't. Just imagine going into the police station and saying you went to give someone a massage in a private room, they got naked and their penis touched your hand. As an isolated incident you'd probably be laughed out of the police station. You got 10-20 people claiming the same thing you got something, a deviant pattern,  but an isolated incident would be chalked up as a misunderstanding or an accident.

So I don't question at all why if most of these accusations are true none of them went to the police.  I can and do question some other things but not that.

 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, dhockster said:

I am assuming right now that all of the 14 woman massaged Desean one time except for the woman who agreed to massage him a second time but didn't know it was Desean she was massaging the second time. That assumption may not be correct but it is what I am believing right now. If that is true, than if all of them were consensual, wouldn't he have asked to use them again and wouldn't at least some them agreed because they were fine with it the first time? Again, not proof of anything but what seems reasonable based on what we think we know right now. Isn't speculation fun?

Speculation is all we have, so the sewing  circle continues....

To your question, assuming this is indeed a kink & Watson has the sexual proclivity for happy endings, then using a different girl each time could simply be the old “variety is the spice of life” factor.

So no - I don’t necessarily divine any specific pattern from his choice of having 14 women once each Vs 1 woman 14x though i agree it raises the question. 

I just don’t think the answer is that simple. I love cheeseburgers enough to eat a cheeseburger 14 days in a row. I wouldn’t go to the same restaurant 14x in a row or order the exact same toppings. 💡 

I’m kinda fat is what I’m tying to say here. :lol: 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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Here’s an interesting question that I haven’t seen asked: 

Why haven't the Texans released Watson with all this hullabaloo? 

I legit don’t know the answer here - is it a contract thing? I’ve seen players get released over less public fiascos before. 
:shrug: 

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Just now, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Here’s an interesting question that I haven’t seen asked: 

Why haven't the Texans released Watson with all this hullabaloo? 

I legit don’t know the answer here - is it a contract thing? I’ve seen players get released over less public fiascos before. 
:shrug: 

They either think he will still play for them and be a top 5 QB or they can still get a big return for him if they trade him. If they release him, they get nothing.

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Here’s an interesting question that I haven’t seen asked: 

Why haven't the Texans released Watson with all this hullabaloo? 

I legit don’t know the answer here - is it a contract thing? I’ve seen players get released over less public fiascos before. 
:shrug: 

Guaranteed money, for one. Second he’s a franchise top five QB. Need see what ramifications are after nfl investigation.

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Just now, dhockster said:

They either think he will still play for them and be a top 5 QB or they can still get a big return for him if they trade him. If they release him, they get nothing.

So basically the same reason FF managers are a hold. 

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Potential coordination between Texans, Tony Buzbee doesn’t mean there was a conspiracy

 

Perhaps the best circumstantial evidence, in my opinion, comes from Buzbee’s over-the-top effort to deny even knowing the first name of Texans owner Cal McNair. Common sense, as it relates to the way that cases like this typically are handled, suggests that there possibly was some degree of advance communication between Buzbee and the Texans before the first of 14 lawsuits (and counting) were filed.

Buzbee is a prominent lawyer in Houston. He ran for mayor. He posted a billboard in 2014 urging his neighbor “Mr. McNair” to draft Johnny Manziel. Buzbee surely knows that Cal McNair owns the Texans, and Buzbee surely knows people who work there.

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

So basically the same reason FF managers are a hold. 

Yes, and the cap hit would be ridiculous with an outright release. A trade only increases the Texans cap $6 million

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2 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

Why haven't the Texans released Watson with all this hullabaloo? 

 

I think it would be one the dumbest things ever based on were we are right now no criminal complaints so much as logged with Houston PD and NFL just beginning an investigation.

There is zero reason for Houston to rush to a decisions and should this ratchet up or linger the NFL is going to just put him  on the exempt list anyway.

We bring up Tyreek Hill a few times in this thread and I will again because I recall people here and in the national media crucifying the Chiefs for not cutting him.  Got to let this play out.

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1 minute ago, SeniorVBDStudent said:

Potential coordination between Texans, Tony Buzbee doesn’t mean there was a conspiracy

 

Perhaps the best circumstantial evidence, in my opinion, comes from Buzbee’s over-the-top effort to deny even knowing the first name of Texans owner Cal McNair. Common sense, as it relates to the way that cases like this typically are handled, suggests that there possibly was some degree of advance communication between Buzbee and the Texans before the first of 14 lawsuits (and counting) were filed.

Buzbee is a prominent lawyer in Houston. He ran for mayor. He posted a billboard in 2014 urging his neighbor “Mr. McNair” to draft Johnny Manziel. Buzbee surely knows that Cal McNair owns the Texans, and Buzbee surely knows people who work there.

I kinda feel like literally ANY coordination between Buzbee & the Texans = a conspiracy. 

I also think that's one hell of a gaslighting headline telling us to ignore the blatantly obvious. If there was coordination that led to the timing of this tanking Watson's value just as he was demanding a trade, that is absolutely a conspiracy. 

It doesn't mean Watson is innocent - those are mutually exclusive topics. But if Buzbee was sitting on this and given the go-ahead, it begs the question of what would have happened had Watson not demanded a trade, and would Buzbee have ever gone public? That in an of itself is deeply, scandalous if true. 

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2 minutes ago, menobrown said:

I think it would be one the dumbest things ever based on were we are right now no criminal complaints so much as logged with Houston PD and NFL just beginning an investigation.

There is zero reason for Houston to rush to a decisions and should this ratchet up or linger the NFL is going to just put him  on the exempt list anyway.

We bring up Tyreek Hill a few times in this thread and I will again because I recall people here and in the national media crucifying the Chiefs for not cutting him.  Got to let this play out.

i agree with this, but I also recall Kareem Hunt's incredible run in KC. And just like that, he's a Brown. 

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  • Faust changed the title to QB Deshaun Watson - dealing with a lingering minor injury

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