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QB Deshaun Watson, HOU


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1 minute ago, ghostguy123 said:

They should probably know something isnt right, unless they think they are so awesome that people fly them in for a freaking massage.

It doesnt excuse any wrong doing on the part of Watson, but it's a whole other level of naive to think flying in somewhere for a massage is normal.

Lot of weird in this.

Like I said.  I am not smart enough and too old to know how these games are played with 20 year olds.     I have to think though since it’s happening with such frequency that it’s a thing to do these days.  

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1 minute ago, ghostguy123 said:

They should probably know something isnt right, unless they think they are so awesome that people fly them in for a freaking massage.

It doesnt excuse any wrong doing on the part of Watson, but it's a whole other level of naive to think flying in somewhere for a massage is normal.

Lot of weird in this.

Plus his girlfriend is a model. It seems illogical he needs to fly strangers in from Georgia. But then it is hard to understand unless you have the same perversions. 
 

Having said this, I get a bad vibe from that lawyer. I think at the very least he distorts the truth, lies, etc...

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25 minutes ago, Blackbear said:

He ran for mayor and is a politician in addition to being a high profile litigator. There exists the possibility he stands to gain personally both financially and in public opinion. 
 

Having said that, at the very least Watson looks guilty of making women uncomfortable. So it likely ends in a big settlement. 

At the press conference he bragged about taking down some famous rancher. Seemed like he enjoys taking down big shots? 

This certainly doesn't look good for Watson at this point. 

I doubt this high profile but circus show lawyer is submitting 9 cases with Jane Doe plaintiffs and then having them all disappear mysteriously, so it seems really weird for it to be some conspiracy that he's sticking his neck out for.   Isn't there some court oversight in terms of made up allegations in lawsuits that he could get held accountable by? 

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I believe what I said on this the other day is still totally true. https://twitter.com/Football_Guys/status/1372537288257847296?s=20

Quote

I don't know what actually happened with the Watson case other than a lawsuit has been filed alleging sexual assault. What I do know is dismissing the women because you love Watson or hate the Texans is gross. Please don't.

Please keep this 100% to football and don't speculate when you don't know the facts. Thanks. 

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1 minute ago, kittenmittens said:

At the press conference he bragged about taking down some famous rancher. Seemed like he enjoys taking down big shots? 

This certainly doesn't look good for Watson at this point. 

I doubt this high profile but circus show lawyer is submitting 9 cases with Jane Doe plaintiffs and then having them all disappear mysteriously, so it seems really weird for it to be some conspiracy that he's sticking his neck out for.   Isn't there some court oversight in terms of made up allegations in lawsuits that he could get held accountable by? 

He was an all-in MAGA supporter in 2016 but disavowed DJT after the Access Hollywood tape dropped. Couple months later he dropped $500K to the Inaugural committee. Not sure I would employ logic in trying to determine Buzbee’s motivation here. He’s a breed apart.

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4 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

He was an all-in MAGA supporter in 2016 but disavowed DJT after the Access Hollywood tape dropped. Couple months later he dropped $500K to the Inaugural committee. Not sure I would employ logic in trying to determine Buzbee’s motivation here. He’s a breed apart.

Politician. 

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5 hours ago, ghostguy123 said:

Personally, I believe a conspiracy set up by the team would make no sense.  How does this help them?

This front office has shown they have no clue what they're doing. Maybe they're just trying to ruin him? 

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Instead of speculating, why don't we address that Watson has retained Rusty Hardin, noted Houston attorney for his defense? This is the guy that defended Roger Clemens from the feds when they came after him for obstruction and perjury during his steroid issue. The jury found him not guilty. Sure enough, if this is all a house of cards, Hardin will be the guy to get to the bottom of it.

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3 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Instead of speculating, why don't we address that Watson has retained Rusty Hardin, noted Houston attorney for his defense? This is the guy that defended Roger Clemens from the feds when they came after him for obstruction and perjury during his steroid issue. The jury found him not guilty. Sure enough, if this is all a house of cards, Hardin will be the guy to get to the bottom of it.

What what what? Wait and see? Evidence? Defense? Watson might not actually be guilty of anything? 

Come now man, that’s downright sensible! That has no place in this topic. What would everyone do with their torches & pitchforks?!  You can’t just expect an angry mob to go home once it’s formed.  Crazy talk! 

lol

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

What what what? Wait and see? Evidence? Defense? Watson might not actually be guilty of anything? 

Come now man, that’s downright sensible! That has no place in this topic. What would everyone do with their torches & pitchforks?!  You can’t just expect an angry mob to go home once it’s formed.  Crazy talk! 

lol

He’s guilty of being a moron 

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3 hours ago, Blackbear said:

He ran for mayor and is a politician in addition to being a high profile litigator. There exists the possibility he stands to gain personally both financially and in public opinion. 
 

Having said that, at the very least Watson looks guilty of making women uncomfortable. So it likely ends in a big settlement. 

This is exactly what will happen. Since the criminal justice system so often fails the victims, many view the civil route as a better alternative. Don't see this hurting Watson on the field in any significant way, as after the settlements are reached everything will be sealed, but it will hurt his bottom line in the future.

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17 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

What what what? Wait and see? Evidence? Defense? Watson might not actually be guilty of anything? 

Come now man, that’s downright sensible! That has no place in this topic. What would everyone do with their torches & pitchforks?!  You can’t just expect an angry mob to go home once it’s formed.  Crazy talk! 

lol

I think he was being sarcastic

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22 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

I think he was being sarcastic

No, I was dead serious, actually. Hardin is about as good as it gets, apparently for pre-trial stuff as well. If Watson is innocent, he'll hopefully get to the bottom of it.

You might know my stance about allegations like this from the political subforum. People are innocent until proven guilty, IMO, and I'm not rushing to judgment because I have the luxury of a ton of time on my hands and nothing to do with it, really, but wait for the truth to come out. Whether that happens in weeks or months is no matter to me. 

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Just now, rockaction said:

No, I was dead serious, actually. Hardin is about as good as it gets, apparently for pre-trial stuff as well. If Watson is innocent, he'll hopefully get to the bottom of it.

You might know my stance about allegations like this from the political subforum. People are innocent until proven guilty, IMO, and I'm not rushing to judgment because I have the luxury of a ton of time on my hands and nothing to do with it, really, but wait for the truth to come out. Whether that happens in weeks or months is no matter to me. 

My bad.   Wasn’t making a comment on your views, more on the defense lawyer’s history.

This whole situation is a combo of disturbing and sad.

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21 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

My bad.   Wasn’t making a comment on your views, more on the defense lawyer’s history.

This whole situation is a combo of disturbing and sad.

Ah, I see. No biggie. I agree that the situation is a disturbing and sad combo. Reminds me of Kirby Puckett, who was similarly beloved yet had a terrible history in tow. I hope that isn't the case with Deshaun. Time will tell. 

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1 hour ago, osubuckeyeman said:

The only thing we can do is wait. Watson and the "Jane Does" have obtained lawyers. Houston PD may investigate. I'm not going to rush to judgement till the evidence is presented and see where the cases go. The NFL will most likely place Watson on the commissioner's list and we could be looking at a very long road to "opinion of the truth" based off the evidence.

Buckle up. This could be a long journey.  I rushed to judgement on Tyreek Hill and though the cases are totally different the emotion of a child being harmed was very powerful. I won't make the same mistake again.  Watson is innocent till proven guilty and the burden of proof must be based on the evidence.

This seems logical.   I don’t know the facts and am not going to rush to judgement either.   Where there is smoke there is likely fire and Watson behaved poorly but I have no idea as to what extent.  

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15 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

.   Isn't there some court oversight in terms of made up allegations in lawsuits that he could get held accountable by? 

At the very least he would be at significant risk of losing his license to practice (disbarred).  

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Even if Watson is totally innocent of inappropriate behavior.....he is a complete and total moron for exposing himself (legally speaking) in this manner.

You have special (legitimate) massage needs? Hire one full time legitimate professional who understands this and is ok with it. 

Flying in outside "masseuses" from Instagram was just about the stupidest thing someone in his position could do, especially in this climate. (Even if some of them are legitimate)

Some folks just don't deserve to be rich 

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18 hours ago, ghostguy123 said:

If I was a massage therapist and someone is flying me in for a massage, my spidey senses would be tingling just a bit.

Not me.  I'd expect to be privately flown places.  If I Decide to become a massage therapist I'm going to be the best.

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3 hours ago, -OZ- said:

At the very least he would be at significant risk of losing his license to practice (disbarred).  

Let's say he is doing a hit job to take down Watson and all of the cases just go away at a point before any cases actually move forward in court.  Lawyer says that now that this is so public that none of the accusers want to come forward and cases are dropped.  He says the accusers are anonymous and anything they worked with him on is attorney client privilege and he is protecting their identity. 

Could he actually get away with that or something like it?  If not, I think you could rule out that its some conspiracy.  I know that SLAPP lawsuits happen all the time where the plaintiff is using the courts as a weapon against the defendant, but I don't know enough about that type of thing to apply it to this situation. 

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I think we can be pretty comfortable that an attorney of Buzbee's quality and experience isn't going to start a case without sufficient evidence to meet the legal threshold. He's said he is going to turn over affidavits to the Houston PD tomorrow. Those will be sworn statements from the women - some or all - that have initiated suits. Neither of these attorneys is going to be doing anything short of what the law requires, and neither would be involved if they didn't think they have the facts to back up any allegation they assert. I think the issues will be the questions of what each claimant says happened compared to what Watson says, and what crimes those facts establish. I have no idea, though, as to what the facts will show. 

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The Houston Chronicle's John McClain believes Deshaun Watson is "still destined to be traded."

Watson's legal issues could delay the timing of when he's traded, but signs still point to a deal being made. Teams will likely want to know the results of the NFL’s investigation into Watson and whether he'll be suspended under the personal conduct policy. McClain suggests it's possible Watson isn't moved until the trade deadline or before the 2022 draft. Houston was hoping to get three first-round picks for Watson but are going to have to lower their asking price. The Panthers, Eagles, Jets, Dolphins, 49ers, and Broncos have "remained interested" in trading for Watson.

SOURCE: Houston Chronicle

Mar 21, 2021, 12:16 PM ET

 

 

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15 hours ago, menobrown said:

Buzzbee is now saying they will turn over evidence and affidavits to HPD and Houston DA on Monday.

Lawyer representing women plans to submit evidence, affidavits in Deshaun Watson case on Monday

Excerpt:

Quote

HOUSTON -- Attorney Tony Buzbee said in an Instagram post on Saturday that he will submit affidavits and evidence from several women alleging inappropriate conduct and sexual assault by NFL quarterback Deshaun Watson to the Houston Police Department and the Houston district attorney on Monday morning.

Buzbee also said he will request that a grand jury consider the evidence.

The district attorney would decide whether to grant Buzbee's request for a grand jury. If granted, the grand jury would then decide, through witness testimony closed to the public, if there is enough evidence to succeed at trial and in turn determine whether charges should be brought against Watson by the state of Texas.

This past week, Buzbee filed seven lawsuits against Watson on behalf of women alleging the inappropriate conduct and sexual assault by the Houston Texans' quarterback. Buzbee also said in a news conference on Friday he will file an additional five lawsuits against Watson "in due course." Buzbee added that his law firm has spoken to "more than 10 additional women" who have come forward with reports about similar conduct from the quarterback.

On Friday, Buzbee said his office has been in contact with police and that he would provide information to them about the women who intend to sue Watson. The Houston Police Department said it was unaware of any contact it had with Buzbee regarding the allegations or the filings of any incident reports, and the lawyer later clarified on social media that the contact he referenced earlier was with a detective who reached out to him. Buzbee also said Friday he is not aware of any police reports filed before the civil suits.

On Thursday, NFL spokesperson Brian McCarthy said "the matter is under review" of the league's personal conduct policy, and the Texans said in a statement that they would stay in close contact with the NFL during its investigation.

 

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1 hour ago, Catbird said:

I think we can be pretty comfortable that an attorney of Buzbee's quality and experience isn't going to start a case without sufficient evidence to meet the legal threshold. He's said he is going to turn over affidavits to the Houston PD tomorrow. Those will be sworn statements from the women - some or all - that have initiated suits. Neither of these attorneys is going to be doing anything short of what the law requires, and neither would be involved if they didn't think they have the facts to back up any allegation they assert. I think the issues will be the questions of what each claimant says happened compared to what Watson says, and what crimes those facts establish. I have no idea, though, as to what the facts will show. 

Sure but keep in mind Buzbee is an attorney in civil cases which have a lighter burden of proof.

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23 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I’m not on either side, yet, but have you heard 20 women actually say it? I’ve heard one attorney claim it.

Vs what we saw come out vs the current NY Gov where these women jumped on Primetime TV and the actual stories as they tell them sound all too real for folks who know powerful men like a State Gov as an example. I'm trying to side step names here so we can stick on topic but I agree with your post. I have to see a lot more evidence and social media doesn't carry a lot of weight for me. 

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21 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I have no idea what really happened here.  But the "owner is orchestrating it" thing is one of the more bizarre conspiracy theories I've read in some time.  It's QANon and Scientology wrapped into one.

Like McNair is going to risk jail time and his multi bajillion dollar lifestyle to try and orchestrate the perfect amount of foment against Watson such that it dissuades teams from trying to trade for him but doesn't bring any disciplinary action from the league nor ruin the reputation of what he hopes will be the face of his franchise for the next 10 years. 

It's beyond bizarre that this has even the smallest amount of legs, much less be something that has been brought up over and over again.

Except the timing and the fact the Draft is weeks away and teams have heard Watson request a trade and refuses to speak with the Texans which put him on an island and somewhat of an easy target. How could an NFL team trade for him at this point with all of these accusations looming? McNair/Houston? How about Stephen Ross and the Miami Dolphins to force Houston into a trade so they will cave and take a couple 1st rounders and move forward? Or Tepper and Carolina so they can get Houston to play ball? The conspiracy is with owners trading FOR Watson, not the Texans IMHO...and I'm not sure I can believe the conspiracy a lot beyond some light banter. 

That said I will say I would like to hear all 20 women filing their complaints and what actually transpired. If Watson admits he did see all these different women over a short period of time, it would lend a lot of credibility that perhaps something transpired. 

I would expect the NFL teams to employ Team Massage Therapists that are 100% professional and do these rub downs in plain sight in full view so there is no hanky panky, it's hard to comprehend why athletes with boat loads of money put themselves in these situations. 

And not to mention if someone like Watson really wants something he can "pay" for there are plenty of avenues to do that all above board or close to it where he would have privacy and nobody would be the wiser. 

20 is a lot of women if all these accusations are true. 

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On 3/20/2021 at 4:25 PM, ghostguy123 said:

If I was a massage therapist and someone is flying me in for a massage, my spidey senses would be tingling just a bit.

Agree, but that's right there at the line of saying something like "she should have know better than to dress like that".  Women shouldn't have to worry about being propositioned or sexually assaulted on the job.  Massage therapists, the good ones, take classes and training.  They are physical therapists.

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18 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

What what what? Wait and see? Evidence? Defense? Watson might not actually be guilty of anything?

 

This has now fallen into the court of public opinion.

If I was tasked with running PR/Crisis Management here, and try to take control of the national narrative, I would assess if these women were sex workers or not. Lots of sex workers are on social media. It's not a huge secret. It could be all of these women were sex workers. Or some of them. Or none of them.

What Watson needs right now is other men to  come forward, men who are not linked to him, his career, the NFL, his sponsors, his former university, his family, nothing. And these men need to say Woman X who accused Watson, I paid her for sex.

Why would those men do that though? They risk public embarrassment and being targeted themselves. And unlike Watson, they may not have his kind of financial warchest to fall back on.

The other consideration is, under the scenario that some or all of these women were sex workers, there's a good chance they were involved with other professional athletes, making it even harder for someone to come forward.

For Dynasty owners (this is not assessing guilt nor innocence nor right nor wrong, this is what will determine what actually happens)  -

Part 1 ) Watson would need this counter narrative to happen to about 20 percent of his accusers. This would enough to lay enough doubt to have some kind of career. Outside of that, his career in the NFL is over.

Part 2) The "Hail Mary" from a PR perspective is for Watson to come out as bi-sexual. It could be true or maybe not. It would require another person, a male, to come forward. Then Watson would become the highest profile bi-sexual NFL player in league history. That's a narrative that can be spun. I'm looking at the blue print in my head, and I could spin that into salvaging a career in the NFL ( i.e. "I paid for sex because I felt fear for being the true me, but I'm not afraid anymore" ) , but Watson simply may have less skilled people working for him or his attorneys on his roster. If this doesn't happen soon, his career looks over.

Part 3) On the wing and a prayer that Watson somehow survives this and keeps playing (NFL owners would need to trade forward the first female NFL GM and some semblance of women in the coaching ranks, but unlike MLB, they don't have a Kim Ng waiting in the wings) , he would need to go a non major market. The NFL won't let him go to NY, Miami, LA, Dallas, etc, etc. He would need to wait 6 months then marry a non celebrity. ( Big Ben got caught up in this kind of packaged deal to move past his own scandal long ago)

Key indicators will be Watson entering into some kind of sexual addiction rehab program.

The first press release by his owner and by the Commissioner will be the biggest clue on what future dynasty value Watson holds in fantasy football.

If you see an immediate distinction in speech between Watson as a player versus the person, then he's done. No matter what else is said, he's done. That's standard spin control for a controlled dump.

Watson's representation, Athletes First, will have some problems here. No matter how wayward the player, it's their job to manage any kind of media optics. They couldn't seal off this story and that's going to be held against them. "That's not fair though" Well, it's not supposed to be fair, it's just how it works. Their job is to protect the client from others, but mostly, to protect him from himself. Every major agency has a cadre of fixers. It's their job to clean up even the filthiest messes.

This situation was a failure on multiple levels. If women were actually harmed, that's unacceptable. But there is a wider context here, besides the shock jock marketing on social media, in terms of fallout for the league itself, real football and fantasy.

CTD is an industry term for "Circling The Drain". I.E. there is a exponential rate of diminishing returns to try to reset this narrative. This is very likely past the point of no return. Dynasty owners take note. Holding is still the best long shot value play. However, if you are committed to the dump, wait and sell at the first "counter narrative", the point where Watson's people make their hardest push, through media back channels, to make it seem like the NFL might give him another chance.

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2 hours ago, GordonGekko said:

 

This has now fallen into the court of public opinion.

If I was tasked with running PR/Crisis Management here, and try to take control of the national narrative, I would assess if these women were sex workers or not. Lots of sex workers are on social media. It's not a huge secret. It could be all of these women were sex workers. Or some of them. Or none of them.

What Watson needs right now is other men to  come forward, men who are not linked to him, his career, the NFL, his sponsors, his former university, his family, nothing. And these men need to say Woman X who accused Watson, I paid her for sex.

Why would those men do that though? They risk public embarrassment and being targeted themselves. And unlike Watson, they may not have his kind of financial warchest to fall back on.

The other consideration is, under the scenario that some or all of these women were sex workers, there's a good chance they were involved with other professional athletes, making it even harder for someone to come forward.

For Dynasty owners (this is not assessing guilt nor innocence nor right nor wrong, this is what will determine what actually happens)  -

Part 1 ) Watson would need this counter narrative to happen to about 20 percent of his accusers. This would enough to lay enough doubt to have some kind of career. Outside of that, his career in the NFL is over.

Part 2) The "Hail Mary" from a PR perspective is for Watson to come out as bi-sexual. It could be true or maybe not. It would require another person, a male, to come forward. Then Watson would become the highest profile bi-sexual NFL player in league history. That's a narrative that can be spun. I'm looking at the blue print in my head, and I could spin that into salvaging a career in the NFL ( i.e. "I paid for sex because I felt fear for being the true me, but I'm not afraid anymore" ) , but Watson simply may have less skilled people working for him or his attorneys on his roster. If this doesn't happen soon, his career looks over.

Part 3) On the wing and a prayer that Watson somehow survives this and keeps playing (NFL owners would need to trade forward the first female NFL GM and some semblance of women in the coaching ranks, but unlike MLB, they don't have a Kim Ng waiting in the wings) , he would need to go a non major market. The NFL won't let him go to NY, Miami, LA, Dallas, etc, etc. He would need to wait 6 months then marry a non celebrity. ( Big Ben got caught up in this kind of packaged deal to move past his own scandal long ago)

Key indicators will be Watson entering into some kind of sexual addiction rehab program.

The first press release by his owner and by the Commissioner will be the biggest clue on what future dynasty value Watson holds in fantasy football.

If you see an immediate distinction in speech between Watson as a player versus the person, then he's done. No matter what else is said, he's done. That's standard spin control for a controlled dump.

Watson's representation, Athletes First, will have some problems here. No matter how wayward the player, it's their job to manage any kind of media optics. They couldn't seal off this story and that's going to be held against them. "That's not fair though" Well, it's not supposed to be fair, it's just how it works. Their job is to protect the client from others, but mostly, to protect him from himself. Every major agency has a cadre of fixers. It's their job to clean up even the filthiest messes.

This situation was a failure on multiple levels. If women were actually harmed, that's unacceptable. But there is a wider context here, besides the shock jock marketing on social media, in terms of fallout for the league itself, real football and fantasy.

CTD is an industry term for "Circling The Drain". I.E. there is a exponential rate of diminishing returns to try to reset this narrative. This is very likely past the point of no return. Dynasty owners take note. Holding is still the best long shot value play. However, if you are committed to the dump, wait and sell at the first "counter narrative", the point where Watson's people make their hardest push, through media back channels, to make it seem like the NFL might give him another chance.

Like the mob, just when I thought I was out they sucked me back in.

:lol:

first off, that was a thorough and entertaining contribution to this topic. I’m not sure how entirely valid it all is, but some of it definitely rings true & jives with what I’ve heard about marketing, and public relations for sports figures.

That said, there is also the possibility that this is a shakedown.

Note that I am not weighting the likelihood of this as compared to the doomsday scenarios you listed… But it is a possibility

Watson has exactly 0 reputation for any sort of wrongdoing for his entire life. & this came literally out of the blue. 

I would also suggest that (to one of your points), if these girls are sex workers there could be other evidence available that does not require first-hand witnesses to come forward as you suggest. I agree that the chance of someone putting their own reputation on the line is slim to none, but let’s say an ad surfaces with one of the girls advertising their adult entertainment, or other sorts of “executive massage“ services… That would certainly be enough to cast doubt on all of the accusers.

Whether Watson received or requested a “happy ending“ or otherwise, the only truly relevant issue is whether it was consensual or not. If when flying these women in for their services there was some expectation of “extras” then this really could be a case of after the fact deciding how consensual the experience was, and now maybe it’s financially beneficial for it to become non-consensual. They could also have been encouraged by this attorney.

again, I am still in wait and see mode, I truly have no idea where this is going… I’m simply suggesting there are alternate scenarios that could either clear Watson entirely, or at least change the judgment in the public eye.

It could well be that 12+ cases of attempted sexual assault Will be called 12+ cases of solicitation of prostitution. less than ideal, but in no way likely to he career-ending.

we will collectively find out more in the coming days. Should be interesting.

ETA: in my opinion, if the police decline to prosecute, and no grand jury is seated, then this is a non-issue as those parties will have deemed the accusers to be non-credible. That’s the next Domino I’m waiting to fall. Press conferences are garbage. If Watson gets charged with a crime, or there’s enough there for a grand jury, he’s probably toast. 

On a personal note, I feel like I dodged a huge bullet… The day before the story broke, my leagues trading unlocked and I was in serious talk With the Watson owner about doing Mahomes, & M.Evans For Watson, Tee Higgins, and CEH. We paused talks as I said I wanted to wait to see where Watson ended up. Whew. 

 

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13 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

The timing of this probably isn’t  just a coincidence.

That’s what I keep coming back to. It’s such a weird coincidence. And there are several other inexplicable coincidences. 

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1 hour ago, Foosball God said:

Agree, but that's right there at the line of saying something like "she should have know better than to dress like that".  Women shouldn't have to worry about being propositioned or sexually assaulted on the job.  Massage therapists, the good ones, take classes and training.  They are physical therapists.

Its simple common sense.  What logical human thinks a massage therapist being flown in is a normal thing?   Especially with no prior encounters with the person.  Hence the spidey senses.

As I said, it doesnt excuse any deviant behavior from Watson.

However, yeah, they probably should have known something was up.

I had a friend a while back get beat up a bit at an Ohio State/Michigan game.  He was wearing his OSU stuff AT Michigan and talking a bunch of junk.  Did he "deserve" to be physically assaulted?  No.  Should he have known better?  Good god yes.  

Many of us spend our lives teaching our kids how to avoid dangerous situations because we know bad people are out there and will take advantage.   

Again yet again, nothing I am saying is any sort of excuse for what Watson did, if he indeed did it. 

 

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1 hour ago, ghostguy123 said:

Its simple common sense.  What logical human thinks a massage therapist being flown in is a normal thing?   Especially with no prior encounters with the person.  Hence the spidey senses.

As I said, it doesnt excuse any deviant behavior from Watson.

However, yeah, they probably should have known something was up.

I had a friend a while back get beat up a bit at an Ohio State/Michigan game.  He was wearing his OSU stuff AT Michigan and talking a bunch of junk.  Did he "deserve" to be physically assaulted?  No.  Should he have known better?  Good god yes.  

Many of us spend our lives teaching our kids how to avoid dangerous situations because we know bad people are out there and will take advantage.   

Again yet again, nothing I am saying is any sort of excuse for what Watson did, if he indeed did it. 

 

This is spot on.  Don't dar papaya.

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53 minutes ago, Meatwad Reloaded said:

Deshaun Watson is done.  If I am wrong, I will resurface and apologize.     

Yea, just like all the people did in the Vick, Tyreek and AB threads after they said they would never play again.

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5 hours ago, kodycutter said:

If he wanted a legit massage, seems odd he kept flying in different women.  were none of them a good masseuse?

He wanted to convince someone to stroke his willy. He succeeded many times I'm sure and then he was on to his next adventure. But that's it. He was inappropriate but people are talking like he's a serial rapist and that just doesn't seem to be the case (not including the one-off forced BJ story, which is a serious allegation) as far as what we know right now.

He may be suspended for a year but to think Deshaun Watson won't be let back in the league eventually is just silly. Even if he goes to jail for 3 years (I don't see that happening but we'll see) he'll still have the opportunity to come back. As. Long. As. He. Can. Win. Games. 

Edited by DirtyCashDylan
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Yeah, “done” is a pretty strong proclamation. There hasn’t even been a single criminal charge yet and even if there are some in the future on the way, Vick went to federal prison and still played again. Without commenting on the rightness or morals of it, if Watson is found to have committed some or all of these acts, as long as he follows the steps laid out to rehabilitate, he’ll eventually be back barring some sort of decade long conviction which seems pretty far-fetched based on what we know currently. Whether it’s after 6 games, 1 year or 4 years (at which point he’d only be 29 going on 30 years old), he’d be back almost certainly at some point.

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20 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

Let's say he is doing a hit job to take down Watson and all of the cases just go away at a point before any cases actually move forward in court.  Lawyer says that now that this is so public that none of the accusers want to come forward and cases are dropped.  He says the accusers are anonymous and anything they worked with him on is attorney client privilege and he is protecting their identity. 

Could he actually get away with that or something like it?  If not, I think you could rule out that its some conspiracy.  I know that SLAPP lawsuits happen all the time where the plaintiff is using the courts as a weapon against the defendant, but I don't know enough about that type of thing to apply it to this situation. 

That's a possibility sure. 

Victims recant often. For various reasons. But if a lawyer encourages knowingly false reporting he's running the risk of harm to his reputation and a bar complaint. 

But yes, there are many ways this can play out where he has no issues.

 

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13 hours ago, ghostguy123 said:

Its simple common sense.  What logical human thinks a massage therapist being flown in is a normal thing?   Especially with no prior encounters with the person.  Hence the spidey senses.

As I said, it doesnt excuse any deviant behavior from Watson.

However, yeah, they probably should have known something was up.

I had a friend a while back get beat up a bit at an Ohio State/Michigan game.  He was wearing his OSU stuff AT Michigan and talking a bunch of junk.  Did he "deserve" to be physically assaulted?  No.  Should he have known better?  Good god yes.  

Many of us spend our lives teaching our kids how to avoid dangerous situations because we know bad people are out there and will take advantage.   

Again yet again, nothing I am saying is any sort of excuse for what Watson did, if he indeed did it. 

 

Right. There's "victim blaming" and then there's exercising caution to not put yourself at higher risk of becoming a victim. We lock the doors to our cars and house for a reason. But if we didn't, and someone broke it to steal stuff, that's still a crime.

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13 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

....

Watson has exactly 0 reputation for any sort of wrongdoing for his entire life. & this came literally out of the blue. 

I would also suggest that (to one of your points), if these girls are sex workers there could be other evidence available that does not require first-hand witnesses to come forward as you suggest. I agree that the chance of someone putting their own reputation on the line is slim to none, but let’s say an ad surfaces with one of the girls advertising their adult entertainment, or other sorts of “executive massage“ services… That would certainly be enough to cast doubt on all of the accusers.

Whether Watson received or requested a “happy ending“ or otherwise, the only truly relevant issue is whether it was consensual or not......

 

 

You seem like a decent enough guy, so this is not personal.

You are saying what you think. I am saying what I know.

If there is some discussion here about this being a set up/hatchet job from above, folks can dispelled that scenario right now. Leverage through media optics, and this is being tried in the Court Of Public Opinion, only happens when you can control the narrative. And, at this point, no one can do that.

Watson's franchise is now open to socially acceptable extortion. Any pro feminist group can demand that the team hire their "consulting firm" to do educational seminars on how to treat women, etc, etc and if they don't, the silent threat is there. The threat of going into the press and calling the entire place and league a haven of rapists and wife beaters. And then pressure all the advertisers/sponsors of the NFL.

A high level hatchet job would also require the complicity of NFL Security to pull something like that off and they are insulated from rank and file owners. They answer to the Commissioner. Who has no reason to make a move like this, esp with the issue of bleeding fans from the pandemic/social justice issues.

There is no conspiracy here. If these are sex workers, hypothetically, then they know a payout for a NDA is possible and they add their names on the list. If you want motive for women to step forward if they are sex workers, then this is it.

The secondary option for Watson is too complicated. Which is claiming substance abuse by alcohol. What is the relationship with alcohol and NFL games and fan engagement? It's in lock step. If a NFL player does cocaine and gets caught, that's one thing. If an NFL player say he's an alcoholic and needs help, that's another different entirely explosive situation. Like with Aldon Smith, the league would tread that tightrope carefully. It's always about the money and the NFL never wants the story line running that alcohol mixed with football is universally bad.

That angle could be spun but it doesn't offer active defense. Watson claiming he's bi-sexual would create active defense. Meaning some of his pundit detractors in public would need to shift sides then directly defend him.

As for Watson's career in the NFL, there's a procedural banning from the game ( i.e. gambling and/or murder like a Rae Carruth situation) and there's informal (i.e. no one is going to sign you)

Watson can't have a career is no team signs him moving forward. You can be banned from the league without the bloodshed with the NFLPA in actually officially banning someone.

The only "truly relevant" issue here is how does Watson and this scandal make people feel about themselves. It's never about "you"  In any effective media optics, it's about how what you say or do or omit or act that drives a certain response or specific reaction from the masses. This is basic PR 101. If Watson can progressively get past the bread and circuses and can get national outreach that shows a progressively humanistic conflict, he's improved his chances to save his NFL career. And by extension, as it's relevant here, give light to his actual fantasy football value.

If I was given priority tasking to Ray Donovan this situation and save Watson, I don't know if I could pull it off. And frankly, if I couldn't do it, no one could do it. This is a really ugly situation. Watson needs hard cover in the media. Meaning not only would he need to come out as bi-sexual, to save his career, but he would need to, through back channels, out every other LGBT player in the league all at once. This again is basic PR 101 - If you can't stop the story that hurts you, you give the world an even bigger story to chew through first.  The backup Seahawks QB just got into a bar fight. Does anyone care? Will the Commissioner care as much with this Watson time bomb sitting in his lap? This QB2 got a little lucky. These situations are often as much a function of timing ( when it happened) as it is a fluid issue that will be adjusted by current cultural climate.

Someone send a Game Of Thrones style raven to tell Sigmund Bloom that Old Man Gekko is back in the Shark Pool. He can take off that horrid looking morning jacket and take a break since he won't have to explain basic media optics to the unwashed masses of heathens here alone anymore.

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10 hours ago, Meatwad Reloaded said:

Dudes...I simply cannot believe people are arguing about this.

These accusations are based on actual lawsuits that were actually filed in court.....

Oh, well, if their based on actual lawsuits this changes everything!

FYI, the merits of said lawsuits are to be determined.  Believe it or not, there are actually incidents of frivolous lawsuits being filed as a means of extracting a payday.  This is an established tactic that doesn't destroy a lawyer if it fails.  Said lawyer simply moves on to chasing the next ambulance.

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9 minutes ago, GordonGekko said:

 

 

There is no conspiracy here. If these are sex workers, hypothetically, then they know a payout for a NDA is possible and they add their names on the list. If you want motive for women to step forward if they are sex workers, then this is it.

From the article in the Houston Chronicle it details about half dozen of the women involved and most of them on paper seem like they are running a professional business and not escorts.  State licensed masseuses and professional strength and stretching vendors.  On paper it looks pretty bad for him.  I suspect he will get dinged half a season appeal it down to a handful of games and still play for the texans.

 

But like you said there is no easy way out here and the fact that Watson is on some soapbox screaming his innocent has me confused as well.

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FMIA: Free-Agency Millions Or NFL TV Billions, Patriots Owner Robert Kraft Simply Is ‘In This Business To Win’
 

Quote

The Watson Drama

Think how dramatically Watson’s world has changed in a week. Last Monday, we were speculating how much hardball the Texans would play to keep him on their roster, and, if he was traded, whether the Panthers, Jets or Dolphins were the leaders. But between Tuesday and Friday, attorney Tony Buzbee filed seven civil suits against Watson on behalf of women claiming he preyed on them sexually. Buzbee indicated Saturday he intends to pursue criminal charges against Watson with Houston police and the local district attorney.

To say this is out of character for Watson is an understatement. I spoke to someone close to Watson over the weekend, and this person was stunned at the charges and had never seen him treat women with anything but respect. So let’s wait for all the evidence to surface. It’s smart in such cases to keep an open mind until we see complete details and stories.

For today, while it seems totally insensitive to the gravity of the charges, we just don’t know enough about the cases to draw any factual conclusions. So I’ll stick to the football meaning of the Watson story for now. While lawyers are combing through the allegations, there is no way a team could trade for Watson now. Even if the Texans were to engage teams in talks, a team could not acquire a franchise quarterback as great and promising as the 25-year-old Watson with this Sword of Damocles hanging over his head. No matter how much faith you have in Watson’s goodness, there’s too much we don’t know right now to risk a mega-trade to acquire him.

Could a team try, while the allegations against Watson hang in the air? Perhaps. One former NFL GM told me Sunday he thinks a smart GM would check in regularly to tell Houston GM Nick Caserio of his interest—regardless how dire it looks now. I suppose . . . but I can’t see how even the most supportive fan base would be okay with a pursuit of Watson now.

And it’s unlikely the matter will be cleared up in the 38 days before the start of the 2021 NFL Draft. So absent a trade by draft weekend, that could knock three or four contenders for a Watson trade out of the box. The Jets (picking second overall) could draft their quarterback of the future, as could Atlanta (fourth), Philadelphia (sixth), Carolina (eighth) and another team trading into the top 10 (San Francisco?) prior to the draft. The Texans could still make a deal for Watson if he was in the clear at any time, but crucial contenders would disappear by the end of April.

The difference between civil and criminal charges is very important to Watson’s NFL future. The NFL draws a strong line between the different courses of legal action. If there are criminal charges, and the cases stretch into September, the NFL could put Watson on the Commissioner’s Exempt List, as it did in 2014 with Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson as they contested similarly ugly allegations. That would take Watson off the field and away from his team, at full pay, while the case or cases are being adjudicated. But if there are no criminal charges and the cases are civil only, the Commission’s Exempt List would not be an option, and Watson would likely be allowed to play. Of course, if he is still determined to not play for Houston and voluntarily does not report, then he would incur heavy fines and forfeit his $10.5-million salary for as long as he sits. Also, it’s unlikely but not impossible that any team would trade for him while any civil suits are in progress.

The forecast for Watson’s future: cloudy. But it’s premature to think of the Commissioner’s Exempt List as a landing spot for Watson—unless criminal charges are filed and the legal timeline stretches into the season.

Edited by The Frankman
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  • Faust changed the title to QB Deshaun Watson, HOU

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