Top of the first plus, nah for me so you did do well IMO. I’d probably draw the line at a mid 1 being fair value. I’d add a little personally but there’s enough questions around him that I can see hesitation. The leagues where I’m planning to shop my picks are from fringe playoff teams. One very young and one without Saquon. I’d happily give a pick in the 8-12 range and add a bit to get Sanders on those teams.
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Dynasty Value Discussion Thread (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter spider321
- Start date
Helaire-ious
Footballguy
I can’t imagine being able to get Sanders at that price (late 1st). Is this a super flex league you are talking about because I don’t play so my value on future draft picks would be off base? I own Sanders in non super flex and I probably wouldn’t move him for the 1.01 but I know it’s a personal preference thing and all leagues shake out different. I think this rookie class has people spoiled and thinking all future rookie classes might hit like this. That’s where I think people need to take advantage this off season. Play on the hopes of many and get proven production for unproven draft capital all day this offseason.
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
Me too. I still really like him, the talent is evident. He just needs to start catching the ball. He has the hands to clean that up. His situation is much worse than we though it would be, however. I still think he’s good value in the back half of the 2nd round of startup drafts.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Except we have a pretty good idea which players the 1.1-4 picks represent.
Not everyone would be, but I'm okay trading Sanders for one of, assumedly, Etienne or Chase. And I'd settle for one of Waddle or Smith.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’d pay it. That’s where he was drafted in most leagues. You’re betting on upside, your trade partner is breaking even. I’d do it if you’re in need a future RB.
Who you gonna take in the 2nd with his upside? That’s the question. If you don’t see that value & you believe in Moss, that’s an easy call.
That seemed to be the vibe from the previous page. That he’s obtainable for a mid-late 1 plus. And that’s my thinking as well. I’d happily give that for him. A pick at the top I’d probably want to see some landing spots first. As an acknowledgment to the short term issues in Sanders situation. I like his skillset/talent for sure.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Eagles fix that OL & he’s a superstar. It’s really that simple. I’d buy for a 1.04 ~> all day if the owner would sell (he won’t, I’ve tried)
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
What else would they be drafting/signing in the offseason?
football is one of those sports where a team can go from a terrible OL to a great OL in 1 offseason.
Right off the bat they’ll get some guys back healthy, and I can’t imagine them not bolstering the OL for a team that’s historically run well.
Pederson might not be the best coach, but even he has to see the glaring weakness if the team. Another quality WR wouldn’t hurt, but his highly paid QB has .05 to get rid of the ball.
IMO this creates a tremendous buy-low opportunity tor an electric back that Pederson has said he wants to feature & make the centerpiece of the offense. Just because that couldn’t happen this year doesn’t mean it won’t happen next year.
Helaire-ious
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
They have many problems. Their linebackers are terrible as are their corners. The offensive line doesn't need tweaking - it needs rebuilding.
Hey, I'm glad there are Sanders believers. Hopefully in the off-season I can get a good return for him.
jtd13
Footballguy
I am not trying to buy Eagles either, but I figured the OL issues were mainly a 1 year injury thing. Just getting Brooks and Dillard back along with Lane Johnson having time to actually recover seems like a pretty big difference.
Unless they have to cut some of those guys due to cap hell. Then all bets are off I guess.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
If you want a 1st I’m positive you can get it. The buyer will consider it buying low. win-win if you think you’re selling high at that price.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’d say that’s the exception & not the rule.Never know. I got Robinson in the 4th
you also got lucky that they traded Fournette, and then Ryquel Armstead got COVID-19 & suffered significantly enough to miss the season (and potentially longer) opening the door foe Robinson’s performance.
Just keepin it real.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Of course you can get A first. I'm saying you should be happy with a high first or a couple later if you're a divester. I wouldn't trade away for just a single late first.
They released (not traded) Fournette because they believed in Robinson. And Armstead is a nobody (in football terms - of course I hope he regains his health).
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
ah yeah, released - correct.
but recall that Armstead was named the starter upon releasing Fournette, NOT Robinson who only came up the depth chart because of Armstead’s COVID.
none of this contradicts my point though. Robinson was hardly thought of as a potential starter when he was drafted in dynasty leagues (he went undrafted in my redraft & was a 5th in my dynasty.
Several things had to break right. Thus “the exception rather than the rule”.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
wlwiles
Footballguy
Re: Montgomer and Akers - another data point for you guys
I gave Montgomery + what will end up being the 2.03 or 2.04
I got Akers and Goedert
Goedert was my target and the guy wouldn't take my 2nd straight up for him, he is making a playoff push and wanted an RB he could use now so he asked about Monty. I jumped at being able to get rid of him. His volume is there but he just doesn't do enough with it.
I gave Montgomery + what will end up being the 2.03 or 2.04
I got Akers and Goedert
Goedert was my target and the guy wouldn't take my 2nd straight up for him, he is making a playoff push and wanted an RB he could use now so he asked about Monty. I jumped at being able to get rid of him. His volume is there but he just doesn't do enough with it.
rockaction
Footballguy
By all accounts, Robinson forced their hand in releasing Fournette and coaches have indicated that he was the reason they did. Armstead became an afterthought in camp. I've followed this closely, and that's the narrative given by the coaches for Robinson. Official depth charts mean very little in the NFL.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Hmm I am not so sure about this one year turn around at the offensive line idea. I think it has happened before, but generally offensive linemen take a couple of seasons before they play at their best level. So if a team slips up in their development for a couple seasons, it may take awhile to get back to a place where its good again. In this case you are talking to a Vikings fan who has been watching that team not invest much into the position for awhile and then really struggled even after some investment because it takes time for those players to get good. I think they are finally getting there but its been a long time since they have been average.
Now the Eagles have been a top 5 offensive line for many seasons prior to this one. They should be getting Dillard back, he was a high pick. I am not sure if he is going to be good or not. Jason Peters is going to be 39 years old next month so not likely a big boost getting him back if they keep him.
I would say there is uncertainty about the quality of offensive line play for this team and this not so long ago was a strength of the team that made their skill players a bit better. There is uncertainty about the future of the coach and the starting QB right now.
Pederson may have said he will feature Miles Sanders but his history is a RBBC.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Sanders is still averaging 5.6 YPC on the season.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I didn’t mean to imply (nor did o say) it would be done with rookies
i said a combo of players returning from injury, draft picks and FA.
I think a quick OL turnaround is likely.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Maybe so but this wasn’t the case during rookie drafts. The context of my post matters.
At the time Robinson wasn’t on anyone’s radar as a starter, Fournette was still with the team with not even a whisper of his release & Armstead was thought to be Fournette’s handcuff.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I suspect one helps the other.
it wasn’t long ago that Wentz was thought of as “the next great” QB. But then, he had time to throw the ball.
i’m not saying he is and I’m not saying he ain’t - in fact I’ve said on this forum that he looks she’ll shocked & has the yips and should be sat for a game to clear his head.
But we definitely can’t tell if he is or ain’t behind that dog crap OL.
rockaction
Footballguy
No, you're right. This was nowhere near the case of our June rookie draft. He went entirely undrafted in my league. As a matter of fact, I didn't add him but for having a roster spot and picked the best guy on offense that hadn't been taken in ours. This was also when I knew they were still looking to get rid of Fournette. That factored in. I thought if one of Armstead or Ozigbo got hurt, then why not take a flyer?Maybe so but this wasn’t the case during rookie drafts. The context of my post matters.
At the time Robinson wasn’t on anyone’s radar as a starter, Fournette was still with the team with not even a whisper of his release & Armstead was thought to be Fournette’s handcuff.
He's RB4 in our league this year. Holy smokes, was that ever lucky. And I've started him every game -- even luckier.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
No doubt he was the steal of a lot of rookie drafts. First no one knew he’d end up with a featured role & also no one knew Jacksonville would be capable of sustaining production for a RB since their defense sucked & the offense wasn’t a heck of a lot better. Pretty sure Chark was one of the only Jags to get drafted in redraft leagues. I took a flyer on Cole in Dynasty just because I had a “what the heck” roster spot.
Robinson gonna win a lot of leagues for people this year, or at least get a lot of owners to the post season.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Nobody is avoiding McNichols due to his situation. Philly isn’t a great spot, but when they run the ball Sanders produces.So is Jeremy McNichols.
rockaction
Footballguy
I'd also like to intone that if I had Fuller that Edmonds would not be enough to get him. That's my personal opinion.
rockaction
Footballguy
At what point to we consider Antonio Gibson to have overtaken CEH and Jonathan Taylor in value? He's overall way ahead of both (twenty-five points over CEH in half PPR) on the year and just seems to be trending upward. What exactly is his value?
I think I saw upthread where Zeke for Gibson was denied by the Gibson owner, and can't help but think that that actually sounds right, despite Zeke getting back two tackles next year and having (presumably) Dak back under a second franchise tag or long-term deal.
I think I saw upthread where Zeke for Gibson was denied by the Gibson owner, and can't help but think that that actually sounds right, despite Zeke getting back two tackles next year and having (presumably) Dak back under a second franchise tag or long-term deal.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
But that's the point. A high YPC means more when it equates to a high number of opportunities - which he hasn't received.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Monday night was an outlier. He had 19 touches last week and 17 the week before - coming off of an injury.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I think I'd need more than even an early first for Sanders. It would depend how the draft shakes out. That said, coaching changes worry me and Pederson and the Eagles might be about to undergo one. Coaches always want "their guy" running the football, and who knows how Sanders will be viewed by the next coach.
So I guess if I got really cold feet one day, a high first might -- just might -- do, but I doubt it. I'd have to be really down on Sanders that day, especially regarding the offensive line.
So I guess if I got really cold feet one day, a high first might -- just might -- do, but I doubt it. I'd have to be really down on Sanders that day, especially regarding the offensive line.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Maybe. I think Dillard is part of that right?
I think Peter's was a key piece from when their line was one of the best and I dont think Dillard is as good going into his 3rd season.
Who are the 2 returning players in your view who will make a difference?
Helaire-ious
Footballguy
What players are ya looking to sell & what players are you looking to buy as of now, guys?
MAC_32
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
It isn't just coach and qb that's an unknown with the eagles, their cap is an abject disaster next year. He's a hold til at least March. I won't think about maybe moving him til then. A lot is going to happen and I don't think much of it can be bad for him.rockaction said:
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I agree. I’m looking forward to 2021 Fuller as he seeks new and legal ways to stay healthy.rockaction said:
hell, I’d be happy if he found illegal yet more clever ways to stay healthy.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Lane Johnson reportedly hasn't been 100% all year. so getting him back to health is critical. He’s no spring chicken at 30 but he’s not washed.
After that, take your pick. They're down what, 7 starters and have a couple guys playing out of position?
Pederson has thrown the OL under the bus a couple post game pressers in.a row, so I have to believe an emphasis on rebuilding the line is going to be a focal point of the offseason.
Boston
Footballguy
I don't think a high one would be a bad cash out (especially if Pederson remains because he makes me nervous with RBs)...no doubt Sanders can play but Philly is a mess and their cap situation is gonna make things tough to really solve their issues...if you hold onto Sanders and Philly is still messy it could mean another dicey season for him which won't help his value...as for the draft if you play in a super-flex a high one gets you a potential stud QB which is always very valuable in that format (meaning in that scenario I would definitely pull the trigger)...in non-super-flex if Etienne or Najee end up in good situations they could be better then Sanders even if Philly isn't a mess and there are some real high quality WR prospects in Chase, Waddle and Smith and looking at the disaster that TE has become if Pitts is the real deal that could give you a very big advantage at that position...tough choice here but if I owned Sanders (and I do not) I think I would cash out on him if I could get a top 5 pick and let someone else deal with that situation.rockaction said:
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
7 QBs are outscoring last seasons QB2, all scoring a good deal more than 2019 Mahomes. That doesn’t include Burrow, Dak or Lamar, three top 10 dynasty options. The incoming QB class is both strong at the top and incredibly deep. Lawrence is probably a top 10 dynasty QB today, and 6 QBs have a shot at going in the 1st round of the NFL draft. One ran for 1,000 yards in a season, and more than one are likely to offer production on the ground.
I’m not sure what to do with this information. It feels odd to prioritize a position when two thirds of owners in 1x QB leagues have top options. On the other hand, those without a top option are likely to face a sizable deficit at the position each week.
And does this production hold, or is this season an outlier, similar to 2011?
I’m not sure what to do with this information. It feels odd to prioritize a position when two thirds of owners in 1x QB leagues have top options. On the other hand, those without a top option are likely to face a sizable deficit at the position each week.
And does this production hold, or is this season an outlier, similar to 2011?
Concept Coop
Footballguy
My initial thoughts are that it’s more important to have one of the top 8-10 guys than it is to have your favorite of the bunch. And the incoming class will offer great value, as many owners simply won’t be in the market for a QB. You could leave a startup in great shape, taking whomever falls out of Allen, Burrow, or Dak, and coupling them with a second tier rookie and a cheap vet.
He certainly has some big believers on this board but I would side with those willing to wait and see. It might be in his specific thread but a week or two ago someone posted about 15 different RBs they would rank ahead of him which sounded about right to me. That was before the huge Thanksgiving game though. I would pass on Taylor but would still prefer Robinson and CEH for his situation.rockaction said:
Zeke is an extremely polarizing player right now, some are putting him out to pasture already and others see a screaming buy low due to Dallas being a dumpster fire this year. I would expect a massive bounce back next year However even with Dak back next year, McCarthy is going to limit Zeke’s upside.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Was offered Chase Edmonds for Curtis Samuel.
Trade calculator says it’s a good deal for me.
Gut says it ain’t.
Edmonds is a COP who’s clearly playing behind Drake at this point. I’m 8-4 and contending. I don’t think I gain lineup value with this deal. if I knew Edmonds would get a larger role I’d be all over it. But ~8 touches a game he’s seen with Drake in the lineup isn’t a lot.
if I pull the trigger I’d be down to Hopkins/Evans/ARob (Cole/Snead) at WR with Fuller for 2021.
Anyone here like this deal for me? I’m on the fence.
Trade calculator says it’s a good deal for me.
Gut says it ain’t.
Edmonds is a COP who’s clearly playing behind Drake at this point. I’m 8-4 and contending. I don’t think I gain lineup value with this deal. if I knew Edmonds would get a larger role I’d be all over it. But ~8 touches a game he’s seen with Drake in the lineup isn’t a lot.
if I pull the trigger I’d be down to Hopkins/Evans/ARob (Cole/Snead) at WR with Fuller for 2021.
Anyone here like this deal for me? I’m on the fence.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Put me down for buy-low on Zeke / massive bounce back potential.
