FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
That depends, does the Brady report mention something about him drinking that person's blood to restore his youth? Because in that case I believe them equally.
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WR Tyreek Hill, MIA (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter amnesiac
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FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Well sure, but innocent until proven guilty is a court of law thing. Not a court of public opinion thing. Heck, even actually proven innocent and acquitted in a court of law isn't always enough to change the court of public opinion. See: Simpson, OJ.
Nor is innocent until proven guilty necessarily a requirement for NFL suspension. See: Elliot, Ezekiel.
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Of course and anything else is dumb, again with exception of local "fun" leagues.
I remember when the heat started on Aaron Hernandez, but before he got arrested. I felt at the time he was likely guilty but might beat the charge so I offered late 1's for him in two different leagues. In other words I thought he killed someone and I tried to trade for him.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
well, a lot of people think he is a piece of trash for what he did in college. Hard to argue.
And hard to argue with people who assume he did it.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I have no problem feasting off of other people's high horse morals in high stakes magic football.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Silver & Black
Footballguy
I am an innocent until proven guilty guy. I usually don't read anything in the media about these types of situations because so much of what you hear or read is skewed by the media outlets etc. That said, when a story like this comes out, it is impossible to simply ignore the person's past. I'm not saying how much weight the past should be considered, but for me, it is impossible to say i'm going to pretend nothing ever happened before.
With this in mind, reading the bare bones of the story at face value, I see Hill being investigated for possible child abuse for a situation he was involved in that resulted in his small child breaking his arm. Even without coloring my opinion of him based on his history, this is a very bad look for the player and it is impossible, at least for me, to not have an initial feeling of bias about this incident.
I hope the investigation unfolds fully and we eventually learn it was some sort of innocent accident and not child abuse. Until then, I can't help but cringe and thing negatively about him and this situation.
With this in mind, reading the bare bones of the story at face value, I see Hill being investigated for possible child abuse for a situation he was involved in that resulted in his small child breaking his arm. Even without coloring my opinion of him based on his history, this is a very bad look for the player and it is impossible, at least for me, to not have an initial feeling of bias about this incident.
I hope the investigation unfolds fully and we eventually learn it was some sort of innocent accident and not child abuse. Until then, I can't help but cringe and thing negatively about him and this situation.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Good post.
There’s also an issue of an increasing lack of credibility in journalism as they rush to be the first to post a story instead of doing their jobs of investigating, corroborating, and printing facts untainted by prejudice.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Consider this next time any of you see a guy you think is "being a jerk" in an interview.
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
Child abuse/neglect is something I have some knowledge on so I will write what I know so hopefully it helps those who own T. Hill.
In my state the police and child services agency would in conjunction work a physical abuse case. The criminal charges would be the police departments responsibility and the child abuse/neglect would fall on the child services agency. The child services agency operate on a preponderance of the evidence (in my state), which is more likely than not the abuse/neglect occurred.
Looking at the link for the news report it didn't mention anything about child services. I also was reading through this and saw it had Hill listed as other relationship. In my state we would identify alleged perpetrators and if he is just listed as other relationship that would mean he is not identified as an alleged perpetrator. Also, when dealing with these cases in my state we have pediatricians on call 24/7, that specialize in physical and sexual abuse, which we call when we want to know whether an injury is accidental or inflicted. Because a child has a broken arm does not mean someone abused the child.
Last thing, If the police department suspected child abuse/neglect it would be mandatory for them to report it to the child services agency, in my state and most states. Child abuse/neglect is protected in my state from the public due to children being involved.
In my state the police and child services agency would in conjunction work a physical abuse case. The criminal charges would be the police departments responsibility and the child abuse/neglect would fall on the child services agency. The child services agency operate on a preponderance of the evidence (in my state), which is more likely than not the abuse/neglect occurred.
Looking at the link for the news report it didn't mention anything about child services. I also was reading through this and saw it had Hill listed as other relationship. In my state we would identify alleged perpetrators and if he is just listed as other relationship that would mean he is not identified as an alleged perpetrator. Also, when dealing with these cases in my state we have pediatricians on call 24/7, that specialize in physical and sexual abuse, which we call when we want to know whether an injury is accidental or inflicted. Because a child has a broken arm does not mean someone abused the child.
Last thing, If the police department suspected child abuse/neglect it would be mandatory for them to report it to the child services agency, in my state and most states. Child abuse/neglect is protected in my state from the public due to children being involved.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Kansas Statutes
I dont have time to work through these to find battery against a juvinille, but heres a link to their statutes for the guy above who wanted info on what this could mean.
I dont have time to work through these to find battery against a juvinille, but heres a link to their statutes for the guy above who wanted info on what this could mean.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
Should probably wait to see what actually happened before passing judgement....I get it if you don’t....I don’t agree with it...but I get it....doing something as bad as he has in the past, it kind of comes along with consequences.....people jump to conclusions and pass judgement even if you didn’t do it.....I choose not to do that.....because there are some people who have made terrible mistakes but have paid their dues and turned things around and are really good people now....I think we all probably know a few of these type of people....heck some of the posters in here might be that person....
as far as his history....all I found was the one incident....really bad for sure....and not minimizing it in any way.....but that is the extent of his “history”......which has since been expunged after he completed everything and all the programs he needed to do....it appears that he has mended things, including with the victim who he is still with to this day....
we’ll see what happens....
as far as his history....all I found was the one incident....really bad for sure....and not minimizing it in any way.....but that is the extent of his “history”......which has since been expunged after he completed everything and all the programs he needed to do....it appears that he has mended things, including with the victim who he is still with to this day....
we’ll see what happens....
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Because victims of domestic abuse never stay with their abusers... especially if they are loaded with money, right?..it appears that he has mended things, including with the victim who he is still with to this day....
we’ll see what happens....
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
I get it....it doesn’t matter to you what this guys does....good or bad.....you have him labeled and pegged until the end of time....totally your call...and thats fine
Interseptopus
Footballguy
no. you justify your stance that he has mended things by stating that his fiance is still with him, as if that should mean something. but it doesnt. abused women stay with their abusers and recant their stories every day. it means nothing that she is still with him. if anything its more of a negative for her than a positive for him
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
Would you let Tyreek Hill date your daughter? Guessing no.
If OJ showed up at your door with a bloody looking knife saying he was just cutting tomatoes and needed to use the phone are you letting him in?
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
if you wouldn't let Tyreek date your daughter then why is he on your fantasy team?
Just trying to save him some typing time
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Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
I didn’t justify anythng....I stated the facts that I know....as far as I know, reports are that they are together.....I have no idea how good or bad things are going, etc. so I can’t comment....I would like assume he must have mended them in some way if they are still together, but I guess you are right.....they could be horrible behind the scenes for all I know......I guess they could be good too....idk
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
Like I said....I get it....thats your call and the way you choose to make judgements....and thats fine
Interseptopus
Footballguy
actually reports are they could be separated based on their Instagram activities/deletions
Interseptopus
Footballguy
What are you seeing to determine this? I know at the pro bowl he said she was pregnant with twins.
Something odd yesterday was that Hill had "liked" two tweets that showed him with his family. One at the San Diego Zoo and one at a camp he did in late February showing him working with kids. Again his fiancee and kids were with him in both of these videos and these were both from this off-season.
What is odd is that both of those videos were taken down a few hours after he liked them. I don't know what to make of that.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
His silence is a little deafening. Lawyer, agent, team or not. If I was being falsely accused of abusing my son, I'd be telling from the treetops that it didn't happen
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
Wow...its kind of crazy these days the level of social media speculation and stuff....”it was liked at this time and then taken down at this time....I wonder what that means....hmmmmm...”.....how did we ever survive without social media...
Interseptopus
Footballguy
various reports of the incident mentioned that both of them deleted pictures on Instagram with them together. for whatever that's worth
It's what has me most concerned.
I want to tell myself stuff like he's not even mentioned on the police report and it's possible his kid had a broke arm at the pro bowl but the lack of denial is incredibly concerning.
That jives with the videos showing them together recently in California as a happy family getting pulled yesterday. I have no idea what to make of that.various reports of the incident mentioned that both of them deleted pictures on Instagram with them together. for whatever that's worth
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I wouldn't say #### if I was him either, he is already 70% guilty (at least) in public opinion....
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
You just gave the reason why he should be saying something if he did nothing.
steveski
Footballguy
It is concerning, but I'm sure his lawyers and even the team are probably telling him to be quiet until it's the right time. I'd find it very hard to believe that he's not in contact with the Chiefs. If he wasn't, I'd think he'd be cut by now. Similarly, if he said yes I intentionally broke my son's arm, I think he'd be cut already too. I'd guess there's a bit of a gray area here and the team/his lawyers are suggesting to just be quiet until more details come out.
I have a high 1st offer on the table for my Hill and it's tempting, but even though it seems unlikely he's innocent, there is just way too little information available at this time and I find that very odd.
For the sake of everyone involved, I hope it's not true. If he can't stop abusing women/children when millions of dollars are on the line, imagine how he'll be when he's unemployed.
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fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Gandalf
Footballguy
Oh it matters. But what I’m focusing on (as this is my hobby) is what has this news - true or not - done to Hill’s value. And it has hurt it. If in two weeks, it turns out he’s completely innocent, then that news will help it. I’m more concerned with where do we go from here versus anything else.
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Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
Not sure why someone would scream from the treetops about something that haven’t even been accused of doing yet....it may have nothing to do with him whatsoever......once accused....sure....
I haven’t accused him of it......and not sure anybody else in here has....so the world thing is alittle dramatic
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fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Even if he’s found completely innocent, I think his dynasty value is harmed atleast some.
Gandalf
Footballguy
I would not see why or agree with that unless KC wanted to get rid of him. I can only speak for me but I wont' ding up in the least if all turns out good.
One bit of possible good news, at least odds in his favor. In Kansas child abuse/neglect is investigated by Kansas Dept. of Children and Families and based on a multi year report of over 30,000 cases the percentage of times they do not affirm any child abuse/neglect is right around 90%.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
It’s still gonna have a stench surrounding it imo. I’d be looking over my shoulder with him from here on out. Police were there twice regardless, somethings going on or he’s not surrounding himself with the best people. The prior “incident” plays into that as well. It seems like a long time ago but this kinda brings it to the forefront. Just my opinion. And maybe not harms it permanently but for awhile.
Gandalf
Footballguy
I think he’s talking about people’s perception of risk and many will assume something happened even if innocent. This is concerning because of hill’s past. And some are just more risk adverse and want players with zero off field issues. As someone who has owned Aaron hernandez, Zeke and Gordon only to see their value take a hit, I’m always going to worry about these off field things potentially destroying value of my team.
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
I would put the percentage of fractures at a higher rate of substantiations of abuse/neglect by a lot.
Sure he should lose value now while this is muddy but I strongly contend he loses zero value if all this is cleared up, I can 100% guaranteed that on my end.
But I've long thought the main benefit I get out of the shark pool is getting idea of player evaluation of others an not because those evaluations mean a thing to mine. Sometimes I realize people are way higher on a player I own so I try and move them, sometimes the opposite. If I get a whiff his market is down AFTER he is potentially cleared I'm going on a massive buying spree.
Are we even sure that is what is being investigated? I don't recall seeing that on the police report, just what a reporter relayed but then you got videos out showing his arm was in cast back in January.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
So, I’d say there’s a 50/50 chance he’s guilty vs innocent since we don’t really know. If he is guilty, he’s probably lost near all value, since given his history, he’ll be out of the NFL for a long time. Some may think the percentage is different, doesn’t matter. Would you play the odds and sell him for 60% of his former value right now?
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Reason I ask is I’m usually risk adverse in dynasty. It’s worked well for me in the past, I’ll trade an old stud for less than he’s probably worth to keep from losing everything on him. Tyreek was probably worth 4 maybe 5 mid 1sts. If someone offered me three mid 1sts I’d take it and run. I’d rather lose two firsts of value vs all 4 or 5. Feel like I can recover from that.
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