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The Trump Years- Every day something more shocking than the last! (13 Viewers)

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crewmember said:
I'm for free voter id, and aren't poor people on medicaid or some kind of program and could we tie that in with getting id to them. Everyone here is acting like poor people are at work or at home 100 percent of their life, and couldn't get id once that would let them vote in all future elections. This is bigotry of low expectations.  
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Most voter ID laws only let you use recently expired IDs. Also, IDs are more difficult to obtain than you think, especially if you don't have a car ... which is the case for most people without IDs, obviously.

In any event it's not about a single case study. It's about how any restriction will act as a disincentive to some number of people, and if the restriction disproportionately applies to poor urban people, it's going to disproportionately impact their voting rates. If you're going to do that you should at a minimum be doing it for some reason, but in person voter fraud is essentially nonexistent, largely because makes no sense. The potential cost is astronomical and the potential benefit is basically nothing.

 
GROOT said:
Yes you are correct, i chose poor choice of words.

Voter ID laws are a contentious subject in the US but are quite common around the world, even in countries that are considered more progressive than the States.
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Like immigration, progressives believe more progressive nations then them should be ignored when they feel like it. I say that as a progressive.

 
Does this surprise anyone?

Lois Romano ‏@loisromano 5h5 hours ago

“I can't be your friend any more because you are Latino."

- WH aide Stephen Miller to a highschool friend.

http://www.univision.com/univision-news/politics/how-white-house-advisor-stephen-miller-went-from-pestering-hispanic-students-to-designing-trumps-immigration-policy

How White House advisor Stephen Miller went from pestering Hispanic students to designing Trump's immigration policy 

The president's young adviser was a provocateur in his California high school, where he was hostile to Latinos and other minorities. Stephen Miller wrote in his high school yearbook: "There can be no fifty-fifty Americanism in this country."
 
So maybe this is the reason for the Trudeau handshake (or non handshake, or something)

Sarah Palin - Ambassador to Canada?

“She has never been very comfortable with the truth,” Cullen told reporters on Thursday. “Couldn’t recognize it most mornings if it jumped up and knocked her on the head.”
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Sarah Palin may be appointed ambassador to Canada, narrowly beating out a rock, a piece of paper and a pair of scissors.

— Salamingia ❌ (@salamingia) 9 February 2017
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Dear Mr. Trump: Rather than appoint Sarah Palin as ambassador to Canada, please bomb us. Signed, all intelligent life in Canada. #killmenow

— Doug Youmans (@dippedbanana) 8 February 2017
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Sarah Palin is being considered for job as ambassador to Canada. She’s presently on a flight to Europe to meet with us. #sarahpalin

— Rob Willcott (@advantagephysio) 9 February 2017
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No Sarah Palin, that’s Mexico. Canada’s in the other direction.#sarahpalin #trumppic.twitter.com/eFybxJ8UyB

— dm gillis (@dmgillis) 9 February 2017
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:lmao:

 
Coeur de Lion said:
It's not a debate when all you have is "Trump said so" weighed against decades of hard evidence that no significant voter fraud occurs. So yeah, I'll stick with laughing at your uneducated a$$.
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It is a crime which is rarely investigated.   Nobody is running around demanding that voters be prosecuted.  People who make laws are people who won elections and it is certainly not in their interests.  It is expensive to track and time consuming to attempt to cross-reference data bases which are all different. It is an expensive can of worms to open.  There is no truth to Trump claims of 3 million illegal votes.  But there is a heck of a lot more cheating than what is caught.  There is no real end game as prosecution is an extreme response.  

 
timschochet said:
Just stop. 

Statistically speaking, there is no voter fraud. None. Never has been. Not a single election in modern times in this country has ever been even the slightest bit influenced by voter fraud. So you're spouting nonsense.

The real purpose of voter ID laws is to keep blacks and other poor minorities from voting in larger numbers. It's that simple, and everybody knows it.  
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So, in no measure whatsoever is it about engendering confidence in the veracity of the electoral process, not even a bit?  I mean I would agree that some who advocate such provisions might have or harbor the improper purpose of impeding or suppressing the vote, but does everyone know that is always the real purpose, everyone?

Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.  I believe that.  I believe assurances against voting fraud, even if not needed in the past provide assurances that will keep that essential consent from being withdrawn. 

 
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Sabertooth said:
I gotta say, I've seen a lot of grift movies.  But the amount of cash Trump is skimming right now is beautiful to behold.  I mean, you have to give the guy credit.  He's going to make a ton of money off this presidency thing.  Nobody is ever going to convict him of anything.  He gets lifetime security and a pension.  He's already won.  

The sheer audacity of the scale of this con is maybe the greatest in the history of the world.  
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Has to be the greatest con of all time. I thought it was funny when he was just fleecing GOP rubes (charging them quadruple for rent on his office space, billing them for all his own products...so good), but now we're all getting swindled. 

 
jon_mx said:
It is a crime which is rarely investigated.   Nobody is running around demanding that voters be prosecuted.  People who make laws are people who won elections and it is certainly not in their interests.  It is expensive to track and time consuming to attempt to cross-reference data bases which are all different. It is an expensive can of worms to open.  There is no truth to Trump claims of 3 million illegal votes.  But there is a heck of a lot more cheating than what is caught.  There is no real end game as prosecution is an extreme response.  
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Jesus H Christ :eyeroll:

 
TobiasFunke said:
Most voter ID laws only let you use recently expired IDs. Also, IDs are more difficult to obtain than you think, especially if you don't have a car ... which is the case for most people without IDs, obviously.

In any event it's not about a single case study. It's about how any restriction will act as a disincentive to some number of people, and if the restriction disproportionately applies to poor urban people, it's going to disproportionately impact their voting rates. If you're going to do that you should at a minimum be doing it for some reason, but in person voter fraud is essentially nonexistent, largely because makes no sense. The potential cost is astronomical and the potential benefit is basically nothing.
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Well what is allowed as a voter ID and how hard the access to them is a different issue. I agree as is it's not fair. I'm not citing fraud and I don't think it's worth any individual doing it on his own, but what if the party is running it with it's people working the polls, how would they be caught, or cited. I want ID, I want paperballots only handcounted and I want reliable exit polling.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
So, in no measure whatsoever is it about engendering confidence in the veracity of the electoral process, not even a bit?  I mean I would agree that some who advocate such provisions might have or harbor the improper purpose of impeding or suppressing the vote, but does everyone know that is always the real purpose, everyone?
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And yet our intelligence agencies all agreeing that Russia interfered with our election doesn't bother these people a bit. Because that doesn't damage people's confidence in the elections at all. 

 
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Homer J Simpson said:
Jesus H Christ :eyeroll:
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There is documented proof that thousands of people vote in multiple states and that was established by only checking a couple of states (posted several times).  There are a lot of politically charged people who get emotionally wrapped up in elections. People tend not to be so honest if they believe they can get away with something.  I have no doubt there is on the order of 100k illegal votes.  But there is no reason to believe those votes lean R or D.  

 
Trump's constant mouth-running may start having real consequences.

Mexico Could Stop Buying US Corn

Mexico is one of the top buyers of American corn in the world today. And Mexican senator Armando Rios Piter, who leads a congressional committee on foreign relations, says he will introduce a bill this week where Mexico will buy corn from Brazil and Argentina instead of the United States.

It's one of the first signs of potential concrete action from Mexico in response to President Trump's threats against the country.

"I'm going to send a bill for the corn that we are buying in the Midwest and...change to Brazil or Argentina," Rios Piter, 43, told told CNN's Leyla Santiago on Sunday at an anti-Trump protest in Mexico City.

He added: It's a "good way to tell them that this hostile relationship has consequences, hope that it changes."

“I warn you: The openness for grain and agricultural products for Brazil will eat the market that you have today in Mexico,” said Ildefonso Guajardo, Mexico’s economy secretary in a meeting this week with Stephen Bannon, Peter Navarro, and Jared Kushner, all Trump’s top aides, according to the Mexican press.

Experts say such a bill would be very costly to U.S. farmers.

Corn is the biggest of the US’s $17.7bn in agricultural exports to Mexico, a value that has risen fivefold since the countries signed the North American Free Trade Agreement.

 
jon_mx said:
There is documented proof that thousands of people vote in multiple states and that was established by only checking a couple of states (posted several times).  There are a lot of politically charged people who get emotionally wrapped up in elections. People tend not to be so honest if they believe they can get away with something.  I have no doubt there is on the order of 100k illegal votes.  But there is no reason to believe those votes lean R or D.  
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New Hampshire is filthy with voter fraud 

 
Jobber said:
Trump's constant mouth-running may start having real consequences.

Mexico Could Stop Buying US Corn

Mexico is one of the top buyers of American corn in the world today. And Mexican senator Armando Rios Piter, who leads a congressional committee on foreign relations, says he will introduce a bill this week where Mexico will buy corn from Brazil and Argentina instead of the United States.

It's one of the first signs of potential concrete action from Mexico in response to President Trump's threats against the country.

"I'm going to send a bill for the corn that we are buying in the Midwest and...change to Brazil or Argentina," Rios Piter, 43, told told CNN's Leyla Santiago on Sunday at an anti-Trump protest in Mexico City.

He added: It's a "good way to tell them that this hostile relationship has consequences, hope that it changes."

“I warn you: The openness for grain and agricultural products for Brazil will eat the market that you have today in Mexico,” said Ildefonso Guajardo, Mexico’s economy secretary in a meeting this week with Stephen Bannon, Peter Navarro, and Jared Kushner, all Trump’s top aides, according to the Mexican press.

Experts say such a bill would be very costly to U.S. farmers.

Corn is the biggest of the US’s $17.7bn in agricultural exports to Mexico, a value that has risen fivefold since the countries signed the North American Free Trade Agreement.
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"More corn for us"

--DJT

 
jon_mx said:
There is documented proof that thousands of people vote in multiple states and that was established by only checking a couple of states (posted several times).  There are a lot of politically charged people who get emotionally wrapped up in elections. People tend not to be so honest if they believe they can get away with something.  I have no doubt there is on the order of 100k illegal votes.  But there is no reason to believe those votes lean R or D.  
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No there's not.

 
Jobber said:
Trump's constant mouth-running may start having real consequences.

Mexico Could Stop Buying US Corn

Mexico is one of the top buyers of American corn in the world today. And Mexican senator Armando Rios Piter, who leads a congressional committee on foreign relations, says he will introduce a bill this week where Mexico will buy corn from Brazil and Argentina instead of the United States.

It's one of the first signs of potential concrete action from Mexico in response to President Trump's threats against the country.

"I'm going to send a bill for the corn that we are buying in the Midwest and...change to Brazil or Argentina," Rios Piter, 43, told told CNN's Leyla Santiago on Sunday at an anti-Trump protest in Mexico City.

He added: It's a "good way to tell them that this hostile relationship has consequences, hope that it changes."

“I warn you: The openness for grain and agricultural products for Brazil will eat the market that you have today in Mexico,” said Ildefonso Guajardo, Mexico’s economy secretary in a meeting this week with Stephen Bannon, Peter Navarro, and Jared Kushner, all Trump’s top aides, according to the Mexican press.

Experts say such a bill would be very costly to U.S. farmers.

Corn is the biggest of the US’s $17.7bn in agricultural exports to Mexico, a value that has risen fivefold since the countries signed the North American Free Trade Agreement.
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They were already upset about losing sales because of the tearing down of the TPP.

 
crewmember said:
Well what is allowed as a voter ID and how hard the access to them is a different issue. I agree as is it's not fair. I'm not citing fraud and I don't think it's worth any individual doing it on his own, but what if the party is running it with it's people working the polls, how would they be caught, or cited. I want ID, I want paperballots only handcounted and I want reliable exit polling.
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The cost/benefit also makes no sense on a larger scale.  Every person you add to the conspiracy increases the likelihood that it leaks, and if it leaks or if anyone gets caught you're totally discredited as a party and oh yeah every single person involved is going to jail.  It's hard to imagine getting to even 100 fake voters in on the conspiracy before you inevitably get either a leak or someone getting busted.

This just isn't a thing.  It's a "solution" in search of a problem, with solution in quotes because I think the people trying to do it know exactly what they're doing.

 
Matthias said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html?utm_term=.6a4a2d80215e

https://thinkprogress.org/this-is-how-hard-it-is-to-get-a-voter-id-in-wisconsin-8be821ef8a88#.p6ixk3ro9

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/636169-should-voters-be-required-to-show-id/
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Yes, I don't agree with those requirements on what counts as ID, I said I was for free ID so not sure why I need to read up on this.  I remember Wisconsin not accepting school ID which hurt Bernie. 

Also I'd like to point out it was Washington Post that said that there could be millions of illegal votes. When Trump spokesman Miller was asked what Trumps source was for his number he cited the Washington Post.

 
Matthias said:
And yet our intelligence agencies all agreeing that Russia interfered with our election doesn't bother these people a bit.
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I am not the official or unofficial spokesperson for "these people".  If this is another post making the  point that partisans are often or even usually hypocrites I believe that point has been made ad nauseam.  Since it keeps getting made for the last couple centuries, and since I don't understand why it needs to be reiterated yet again, perhaps you can help me understand why it needs to be made.  Are minds being changed, educated, or positions forwarded. what am I missing?

 
jon_mx said:
I was not disputing the merits as there is definitely justification to point out the ethical issue with the arrangement and Trump's action.    But the credibility of the outrage is greatly diminished when you look at the hypocrisy. 
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This is the point...you don't seem to discuss the merits...you and Mr Hysteria.  You chime in to cry hypocrisy as if that lessens the argument being made.

Worrying about board credibility is laughable.

An argument is no more or less credible than the merits of the argument...no matter who posts it.  Either the point is made or its not.

Whether or not I complained about Hillary's emails has no bearing on whether or not Trump is strong on securing information.

 
Jobber said:
Trump's constant mouth-running may start having real consequences.

Mexico Could Stop Buying US Corn

Mexico is one of the top buyers of American corn in the world today. And Mexican senator Armando Rios Piter, who leads a congressional committee on foreign relations, says he will introduce a bill this week where Mexico will buy corn from Brazil and Argentina instead of the United States.

It's one of the first signs of potential concrete action from Mexico in response to President Trump's threats against the country.

"I'm going to send a bill for the corn that we are buying in the Midwest and...change to Brazil or Argentina," Rios Piter, 43, told told CNN's Leyla Santiago on Sunday at an anti-Trump protest in Mexico City.

He added: It's a "good way to tell them that this hostile relationship has consequences, hope that it changes."

“I warn you: The openness for grain and agricultural products for Brazil will eat the market that you have today in Mexico,” said Ildefonso Guajardo, Mexico’s economy secretary in a meeting this week with Stephen Bannon, Peter Navarro, and Jared Kushner, all Trump’s top aides, according to the Mexican press.

Experts say such a bill would be very costly to U.S. farmers.

Corn is the biggest of the US’s $17.7bn in agricultural exports to Mexico, a value that has risen fivefold since the countries signed the North American Free Trade Agreement.
Click to expand...
They call it "maize".

 
wrong mix:

It is a crime which is rarely investigated. Nobody is running around demanding that voters be prosecuted. People who make laws are people who won elections and it is certainly not in their interests. It is expensive to track and time consuming to attempt to cross-reference data bases which are all different. It is an expensive can of worms to open. There is no truth to Trump claims of 3 million illegal votes. But there is a heck of a lot more cheating than what is caught. There is no real end game as prosecution is an extreme response.
Click to expand...
It's a crime that is rarely investigated because it is EASILY caught. Almost every state can easily cross-check to see if a dead person voted or if an unregistered voter voted or if a non-citizen voted. It's strange for you to accuse lawmakers of deliberately suppressing investigations into these potential crimes, since you're also one of the guys who likes to point out that most of the governors and state legislatures are Republican. If Democrats are inflating their numbers through fake voter registration, then it's in the best interest of Republican legislatures everywhere to investigate these alleged crimes.

But they don't. Because even most Republicans know better.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
At some point I asked myself, if or when I want to sway the opinions or stances of others to align with my own, whether it is good to first point out their faults.  It seemed to me that doing so would not have them in an amenable frame of mind to hear and consider my points, and if I were talented, to maybe even convince them that my points were outgrowths or articulations of their own beliefs that I came to after considering what they had to say. 

Long ago I realized this country is divided, but that the temporary rulers cannot have a productive administration if they are constantly battling nearly half the populace, waiting for another administration change. 

Some there are who agree with these propositions, some, well, not so much.  Me, I tend to believe that you may be one to set aside the back and forth of blame assignment and to move forward with mature solutions emphasizing points of consensus.  Sometimes I admit I can be goaded into backsliding on attempts to do so.  That's why we need folks stronger than me, folks like yourself to take up the mantle.  I hope the good sound thinkers, the Henry Fords, the Tobias', folks like you, can turn matters towards productive paradigms for the future, a future I may be too old to ever see, who knows. When my firmly held fundamental beliefs are assailed by those I deem un-cautious and ill-considered in their beliefs it can take more restraint than I have to remain productive and positive..  Still, I try, but I am the past, not the future. I hope you all do better than me and my generation.
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I have several times recently pointed out policies that have majority support I would be more than willing to work with the other side of the aisle. Heck I would support Trump.on some stuff he claimed to want to do. Even their voters support these things I do. But people love their wedges more than.they do getting things done.

 
So the WH is going out with "Flynn can't recall if he talked about sanctions".  Do they expect us to believe that BS?  Perhaps the transcripts would refresh his memory.

 
Are a lot of Americans making a good living growing the corn, or is just going all to corporate profits? Everything is #### these days, the news is usually just will they get more ####ty?

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
I am not the official or unofficial spokesperson for "these people".  If this is another post making the  point that partisans are often or even usually hypocrites I believe that point has been made ad nauseam.  Since it keeps getting made for the last couple centuries, and since I don't understand why it needs to be reiterated yet again, perhaps you can help me understand why it needs to be made.  Are minds being changed, educated, or positions forwarded. what am I missing?
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Hypocrite is someone who says to eat healthy while wolf wolfing down a cheeseburger and fries. I'm not calling anyone a hypocrite. What I am doing is saying it shows that the rationale is obviously pretextual by the politicians and completely not reflected upon by their followers. But neither are hypocrites. 

 
squistion said:
Careful, there are people here that say you should be banned unless you always express your own thoughts.
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The reddit poster cites 3 sources in support of the proposition, all of which essentially re-state the information that you presented in your chart.  (I say essentially because one of the 3 sources makes no mention of your first category for "no ID required," and the same source also says that Canada requires ID at the polls, but omits the fact that Canada accepts multiple forms of ID.) GROOT's proposition is based on the exact same facts that you posted.

 
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