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The Trump Years- Every day something more shocking than the last! (15 Viewers)

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[scooter] said:
Conservatives, 2009-2015: Obama's lies prove that he's unfit for office!

Conservatives, 2017-????: Obama lied first so it's okay!
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Liberals, 2009-2015:  We don't care about the lies Obama said.  Besides, he's OUR GUY so it's okay.

Liberals, 2017-????: Can you believe all of the lies Trump is making?  I'M OUTRAGED!  WE SHOULDN'T STAND FOR THIS!

 
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MaxThreshold said:
Liberals, 2009-2015:  We don't care about the lies Obama said.  Besides, he's OUR GUY so it's okay.

Liberals, 2017-????: Can you believe all of the lies Trump is making?  I'M OUTRAGED!  WE SHOULDN'T STAND FOR THIS!
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I'd like this post if you provided examples of Obama blatantly lying as Spicer just did. It's possible, I don't trust any politicians...but did it happen?

 
JIslander said:
If you don't see the difference between what was cobbled together in your links (and could be done for any Pres) and what is happening right now with the Trump administration, there is no reason to continue arguing. 
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Agreed, lying about actual policies and what you promise to do for the country is much more significant than crowd size. Please move along.

 
Of course this is one example in 8 years and Trump's secretary told 3 whoppers on day one, so take it with a grain of salt.

 
shader said:
Of course this is one example in 8 years and Trump's secretary told 3 whoppers on day one, so take it with a grain of salt.
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You asked for an example and I gave it to you.  Now that you're question was answered definitively you're trying to move the goal posts.  Why are you doing that?

 
MaxThreshold said:
You asked for an example and I gave it to you.  Now that you're question was answered definitively you're trying to move the goal posts.  Why are you doing that?
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I was talking about my own post.

The Healthcare thing is more along the lines of a broken promise, which all politicians do.  Doesn't make it right, it's just normal.  Lying about the facts of an event that happened less than 24 hours prior that can be easily debunked in 5 minutes of searching is something I doubt we will find evidence of. 

 
What's up with the Net Neautrality thing.  O had us all set and now the Donald is gonna tear it all down?  

 
shader said:
I was talking about my own post.

The Healthcare thing is more along the lines of a broken promise, which all politicians do.  Doesn't make it right, it's just normal.  Lying about the facts of an event that happened less than 24 hours prior that can be easily debunked in 5 minutes of searching is something I doubt we will find evidence of. 
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:goodposting:

 
shader said:
I was talking about my own post.

The Healthcare thing is more along the lines of a broken promise, which all politicians do.  Doesn't make it right, it's just normal.  Lying about the facts of an event that happened less than 24 hours prior that can be easily debunked in 5 minutes of searching is something I doubt we will find evidence of. 
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Barack Obama said 'Fast and Furious' began under the Bush administration

President Barack Obama is far ahead with Hispanic voters, but he faced tough questions during a Univision interview at the University of Miami on Sept. 20, 2012.

Interviewer Jorge Ramos asked Obama about the controversial "Fast and Furious" program, in which federal agents allowed guns to be sold and brought into Mexico so they could trace the weapons. But the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) ended up losing track of some of the guns. Two were found at the crime scene where U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry was killed on Dec. 14, 2010.

"I think it’s important for us to understand that the Fast and Furious program was a field-initiated program begun under the previous administration," Obama responded. "When (Attorney General) Eric Holder found out about it, he discontinued it. We assigned an inspector general to do a thorough report that was just issued, confirming that in fact Eric Holder did not know about this, that he took prompt action and the people who did initiate this were held accountable."

Several readers wrote to us that Fast and Furious did not start under President George W. Bush, so we decided to check it out.

A day before Obama’s Univision interview, the U.S. Department of Justice’s Inspector General released a 512-page report about Fast and Furious.

"Our review of Operation Fast and Furious and related matters revealed a series of misguided strategies, tactics, errors in judgment and management failures," the report noted.

The report also clearly shows that Fast and Furious began under the Obama administration, dating its inception to October 2009. (Obama took office in January 2009.) This directly contradicts Obama’s claim.

There is one mitigating factor, however: A program similar to Fast and Furious did go forward under the Bush administration in 2006 and 2007. That program, called Operation Wide Receiver, also attempted to track suspicious weapons. Allowing gun sales to go forward even when the ATF had probable cause to believe the sales were unlawful has come to be known as "gun walking."

The two operations -- Fast and Furious and Wide Receiver -- had some similarities, and both were run out of the ATF’s Phoenix Field Division. The inspector general explored both programs in depth and found similar problems.

"The risk to public safety was immediately evident in both investigations," the inspector general’s report states.

The White House told us that Obama was referring to the general practice of gun walking, which happened in both administrations. "The President was referring to the flawed tactic of gun-walking, which despite Republicans efforts to politicize this issue, began under the previous administration and it was our attorney general who ended it," said White House spokesman Eric Schultz.

U.S. Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., chairman of the House Oversight & Government Reform Committee, and Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa, the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, issued their own 211-page investigative report this summer. The investigations led House Republicans to hold Attorney General Holder in contempt for failing to satisfy their requests for documents. House Democrats walked out on the criminal contempt vote, which passed 255-67.

Our ruling

Obama said that the Fast and Furious program began "under the previous administration." That is not the case; Fast and Furious did begin during the time Obama held office.

Another similar program, called Operation Wide Receiver, did happen during the Bush administration, and a recent inspector general’s report criticized both operations as ineffective and seriously flawed.

But Operation Wide Receiver is not the same thing as the Fast and Furious program. We rate Obama’s statement False.
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Thanks for the links guys. I don't know anything about them, but if they are true, then yes those seem as bad as what Spicer did.  That was my point in asking the question.  Show that this behavior is normal.  If you can, then yes this whole thing is business as usual and faux outrage.

Also to be fair, Max, I don't know where your article is from and GoBirds, I've never heard of freedom outpost.com.

 
shader said:
Thanks for the links guys. I don't know anything about them, but if they are true, then yes those seem as bad as what Spicer did.  That was my point in asking the question.  Show that this behavior is normal.  If you can, then yes this whole thing is business as usual and faux outrage.

Also to be fair, Max, I don't know where your article is from and GoBirds, I've never heard of freedom outpost.com.
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Shader, each number has a link to the article supporting it from ABC, Washington Post, government sites etc. etc. 

 
Amused to Death said:
Remember when Trump said he might not accept the election results because he could only lose if they were rigged?  I wonder how that might play in 4 years. 
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This is my big fear. If he blatantly disputes obvious and trivial facts like inauguration attendance, what happens when the first bad unemployment report comes in? Or election results in 2020.

 
MaxThreshold said:
Liberals, 2009-2015:  We don't care about the lies Obama said.  Besides, he's OUR GUY so it's okay.

Liberals, 2017-????: Can you believe all of the lies Trump is making?  I'M OUTRAGED!  WE SHOULDN'T STAND FOR THIS!
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Hint:. It's more than liberals who are going against Trump, but I know you can't see past that.

e.g. - Check George Will's piece this morning.  

 
Amused to Death said:
Remember when Trump said he might not accept the election results because he could only lose if they were rigged?  I wonder how that might play in 4 years. 
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Under what scenario could he lose?  The media are a bunch of liars, so if they say he lost they're just lying again.  Have to go to Trump to really find out who wins in 2020.

 
shader said:
Thanks for the links guys. I don't know anything about them, but if they are true, then yes those seem as bad as what Spicer did.
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They are completely different types of "lying". The two Obama examples are just textbook political obfuscation, containing enough truth to allow a politician to play both sides of the aisle. "You can keep your plan" was a technically true statement at the moment that he said it (but what Obama didn't mention is that you may have to pay cash).

Trump's method of lying goes far beyond typical political talk. He lies about things that are blatantly and instantly false, then he doubles down on those lies and attacks anyone who challenges him. And while he may be entitled to attack anyone he wants to attack, it really just highlights how inappropriate it is for a President to be spending government time and resources on proving a nonexistent point. How much taxpayer money was spent to make posters out of those enlarged crowd photos yesterday??  I wonder if the job was subcontracted to a print shop owned by one of Trump's companies?

 
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GoBirds said:
We would disagree on that but appreciate your perspective, you keep it respectful and make good points.  :thumbup:

I feel the media during the election is an extreme I haven't seen and it's carrying over. I give it time before buying into a lot of the claims and honestly have a lot more concern with the economy. I think we are in an asset bubble than needs to be unwound carefully. 
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Aren't you in real estate?

 
MaxThreshold said:
Liberals, 2009-2015:  We don't care about the lies Obama said.  Besides, he's OUR GUY so it's okay.

Liberals, 2017-????: Can you believe all of the lies Trump is making?  I'M OUTRAGED!  WE SHOULDN'T STAND FOR THIS!
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This is next level #### and you know it and still defend it. Remarkable. 

 
mr roboto said:
This is next level #### and you know it and still defend it. Remarkable. 
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I get it.  It's always "NEXT LEVEL ####" when it's not your guy doing it.

If you guys were as outraged about the Obama Presidency lies, then maybe you would have some credibility.

 
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tri-man 47 said:
As in: "We're not allowing guns in Wyoming schools due to the risk of grizzlies ...it's due to threats of the Loch Ness monster."  
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Of course not!  That is totally ridiculous!  :rant:

Everyone knows the Loch Ness monster was in Scotland...but now he has been deported to Jurassic World...since Brexit!

It's Bigfoot that carries the true threat in Wyoming!  Get your #AlternativeFacts straight!  :wall:

;)

 
shader said:
Yeah it was weird. There are so many ways Spicer could have gone.  He could have pointed to tv ratings, even complained about some unfavorable camera angles.  While that would have seemed petty, it possibly had some merit.  But he went full-on "lie", which was unnecessary.
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Agree.  That was the strangest part for me too.  I figured they were going to come out and say worldwide "attendance" was higher than ever in history--which I suppose wouldn't have stunned me given what a show he is, and the continuing proliferation of the internet and social media.  That's one way they could have handled it.

This was just weird.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Obama broke a few promises and probably lied during the 2008 campaign about a few things in an effort to get elected.  Not noble, but completely normal.

Trump is crazy and lies about trivial stuff that is easily, objectively disproved.

Let's not compare these two.
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Commie liberal scumbag.

 
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