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I also agree about trading Engram, whether they draft Pitts or not.  However, I wonder what the salary cap implications are since IIRC he recently signed a big contract.  If it's going to cost more to move on than to keep him, I'd rather keep him another year.

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Great news both for Saquon and Jones.

Probably the worst GM in football

Ogletree seems to be a guy who has a reputation with fans around the league that far exceeds what people who watch him closely see. I think it's because for such a long time, he was included among the

2 hours ago, RC94 said:

I also agree about trading Engram, whether they draft Pitts or not.  However, I wonder what the salary cap implications are since IIRC he recently signed a big contract.  If it's going to cost more to move on than to keep him, I'd rather keep him another year.

Engram didn't sign a big contract, they just picked up his 5th year option which is around 6M.

I think I'm one of the few Giants fans that don't hate Engram. He clearly needs to clean up the drops but I think he is still an ascending player.  

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11 hours ago, kodycutter said:

Looks like we will be drafting 11th,  perhaps 5 teams looking at qb ahead of us - jax, jets, atlanta, detroit, carolina.  I don't think 5qbs will go in the top 10 though. 

Probably miss out on Chase or Smith at WR unfortunately.    Will most likely have to sign a WR (Golladay, A. Rob, Corey Davis) and pick one up on day 2.  They can't go into next year with the same crew...even with THE Dante Pettis.    Think Tate gets cut, awful signing there Gettleman.  

I've seen Pitts (TE florida) mentioned a few times in mocks "faster than linebackers, bigger than safeties...matchup nightmare"-- thats what we heard with our probowl TE...  

Hoping Surtain gets to us but I think Dallas will take him.    

  1. Jax  -
  2. Jets -
  3. Miami -
  4. Atlanta - 
  5. Cincy - 
  6. Philly - 
  7. Detroit - 
  8. Carolina - 
  9. Denver - 
  10. Dallas - 
  11. NYG -

 

I sure hope 5 QBs are gone by the time the Giants draft ... That would be a dream come true. But there is no way in hell that 5 QBs are coming off the board in the top 10 ... that's unheard of in a good QB draft and aside from Trevor these guys are a bunch of average Joes. (Your Haskins, Darnold's, Rosen's etc ...)   

Giants arent going to be looking for a QB cause Jones has been palying very well this season considering the garbage around him and the only QB proespect that is clearly better than Jones is Trevor. Fields is likely the next Haskins and LOL! could very well be the Jets problem 

If 5 QBs, 2 WRs are off the board that means one of these guys will fall into their laps  CB (Surtain), OL (Sewell)  ILB  (Parsons) or Top Edge rusher (not sure who it will be)

I'd like the Giants to go after Ertz if philly releases him which it sounds like is a possibility ...I'm sure he would love to stick it to the eagles after the crap he and the whole team went through this season. Giants could get a shot at 1 of the top 2 WRs

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, The Frankman said:

I think the Giants should float out the possibility of shipping Engram if they're serious about Pitts, Kaden Smith did a solid job as a #2 TE and Levine Toilolo too as the 3rd TE. Depending on vaccine rollouts there a slight chance we actually get a Combine this year and it'll be interesting to see who the risers will be considering we got a largely truncated college football season and scouting has taken a huge hit with the pandemic.

They have no choice but to bring Williams back, it's Tomlinson that worries me more. A lot of what Williams has been able to do is related to Tomlinson and Lawrence and vice versa. Lose those guys and Williams may revert to a "gets close but never finishes" player he was on the Jets.

I wouldnt want to lose Tomlinson but B.J. Hill is a pretty good and cheap replacement. 

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1 hour ago, monk said:

I sure hope 5 QBs are gone by the time the Giants draft ... That would be a dream come true. But there is no way in hell that 5 QBs are coming off the board in the top 10 ... that's unheard of in a good QB draft and aside from Trevor these guys are a bunch of average Joes. (Your Haskins, Darnold's, Rosen's etc ...)   

Giants arent going to be looking for a QB cause Jones has been palying very well this season considering the garbage around him and the only QB proespect that is clearly better than Jones is Trevor. Fields is likely the next Haskins and LOL! could very well be the Jets problem 

If 5 QBs, 2 WRs are off the board that means one of these guys will fall into their laps  CB (Surtain), OL (Sewell)  ILB  (Parsons) or Top Edge rusher (not sure who it will be)

I'd like the Giants to go after Ertz if philly releases him which it sounds like is a possibility ...I'm sure he would love to stick it to the eagles after the crap he and the whole team went through this season. Giants could get a shot at 1 of the top 2 WRs

 

 

 

Cowboys won’t/shouldn’t let Parsons or Surtain get past them. I can’t see both being there at 10.

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4 hours ago, Smack Tripper said:

Give me a pass rusher

Next year is another bandaid year while they realize Jones isn't the guy

I was told just before the draft last year(not by you btw) that there would be NO INTEREST in the Giants trading up to #2 draft Chase Young. NONE. 

Now I'm not saying that Andrew Thomas is a bust, but raise your hand if you're a Giants fan and you would have liked to have seen Chase Young doing his best LT impression in 2020? Would you not have given up slightly less than whatever the draft pick calculator suggested for the highest rated player in the 2020 draft to only slide up a few slots?

I was told emphatically that it would never happen for a defensive player and I was pretty shocked by that. It seemed to me both DET and NYG were in desperate need of a pass rusher before the season began. DET ends up starting from scratch and the NYG miss the playoffs by a whisker but they wouldn't have traded up a couple of spots? Ok.

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Ian Rapoport
The #Chargers requested an interview with #Giants OC Jason Garrett for their vacant HC job, source said. The former #Cowboys coach is back in the HC interview circuit.     

 

Tom Pelissero

The #Jets put in a request to interview #Giants DC Patrick Graham for their head coaching job, per source.

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Great Blue North Mock Draft       -

wow, they have 5qbs top ten...don't like seeing DeVonta to the eagles.  Top pass rusher goes at #12 (Rousseau), Jaylen Waddle at #16.  

1Jax Trevor Lawrence QB Clemson

2 Jets   Zack Wilson QB BYU

3 Miami (from Houston) Penei Sewell OT Oregon

4 Atlanta Justin Fields QB Ohio State

5 Cincinnati Ja'Marr Chase WR LSU

6 Philadelphia DeVonta Smith WR Alabama

7 Detroit Micah Parsons LB Penn State

8 Carolina Mac Jones QB Alabama

9 Denver Trey Lance QB North Dakota State

10 Dallas Patrick Surtain CB Alabama

11 NY Giants Kyle Pitts TE Florida

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3 hours ago, kodycutter said:

Great Blue North Mock Draft       -

wow, they have 5qbs top ten...don't like seeing DeVonta to the eagles.  Top pass rusher goes at #12 (Rousseau), Jaylen Waddle at #16.  

1Jax Trevor Lawrence QB Clemson

2 Jets   Zack Wilson QB BYU

3 Miami (from Houston) Penei Sewell OT Oregon

4 Atlanta Justin Fields QB Ohio State

5 Cincinnati Ja'Marr Chase WR LSU

6 Philadelphia DeVonta Smith WR Alabama

7 Detroit Micah Parsons LB Penn State

8 Carolina Mac Jones QB Alabama

9 Denver Trey Lance QB North Dakota State

10 Dallas Patrick Surtain CB Alabama

11 NY Giants Kyle Pitts TE Florida

If the draft fell this way I would be pretty pissed with the Giants for taking the TE (Pitts) over the DE (Rousseau)

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1 hour ago, Yenrub said:
  • I'd like to see them try to restructure the remaining 2 years for soldier ... Cutting him saves the team 6 Million but cost $10 Million against the cap. Much rather Solder than Fleming 
  • Same with Zeitler rstructure for a few years 
  • Let Engram walk if Ertz becomes available 
  • Hernandez is cheap so you keep him 
  • The rest could go 
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56 minutes ago, monk said:

Wow ... Poor Daniel Jones ... Engram killed his stats and probably the Giants playoff opportunity. 1 more more win would have done it and I'm Engram cost us at least 1 game 

How many games did Jones cost them this season?

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50 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

How many games did Jones cost them this season?

Not sure if cost them any ... Line sucked, RBs sucked, WRs sucked, TEs sucked, Offensive Coordinator sucked ...

Actually Jones was the only bright spot on Offense this year   

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1 hour ago, kodycutter said:

Graham is staying

Patrick Graham signed an extension to stay as the #Giants defensive coordinator. He will not be leaving for any head coaching opportunities.    :thumbup:

I'm glad he's staying but I'm surprised at the timing.  I read that he was getting HC interview requests. 

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53 minutes ago, monk said:

Not sure if cost them any ... Line sucked, RBs sucked, WRs sucked, TEs sucked, Offensive Coordinator sucked ...

Actually Jones was the only bright spot on Offense this year   

When your offense is 31st in both yards per game and points per game, there are no bright spots on offense.

The game ending interception against the Rams wasn’t helpful and he wasn’t all that helpful in the Bears game either. Also the RB's didn't suck, Gallman had a fine season. 

 

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57 minutes ago, monk said:

Not sure if cost them any ... Line sucked, RBs sucked, WRs sucked, TEs sucked, Offensive Coordinator sucked ...

Actually Jones was the only bright spot on Offense this year   

Amazing.  Just amazing.  I'm getting flash backs to Blake Bortles believers.

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18 hours ago, Yenrub said:

When your offense is 31st in both yards per game and points per game, there are no bright spots on offense.

The game ending interception against the Rams wasn’t helpful and he wasn’t all that helpful in the Bears game either. Also the RB's didn't suck, Gallman had a fine season. 

 

Gallman led the team with 682 yds rushing ... Guess who was next at 423. Take away Jones and they are dead last in rushing in the NFL ... So yes the RBs sucked !

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2021/01/06/new-york-giants-daniel-jones-faced-hardest-strength-schedule-by-a-mile/

CHI - Jones didnt have a good game but Barkley got hurt after 4 Carries and Dion Lewis was the only RB available ... he was 10 for 20 yds 2.0 avg 

LAR - Jones didn't have a good game but he did lead the team in Rushing with 45 yds and was battered by the LA defense 

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42 minutes ago, monk said:

And then there is this ... Giants Oline ranked 31st of 32 teams in 2020 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

So to be clear your stance is.....

Evan Engram drops a pass (Eagles game) the Giants lose and that loss is on Engram.

Jones has zero passing TD and zero rushing TD with 2 turnovers in a game the Giants lose and that loss is NOT on Jones

 

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Evan Engram should catch 100% of the balls that hit him in the hands ... 

Any QB is likely going to lead their team in turnovers because they touch the ball on every play.

A QB without a runnning game, without reliable receivers, with a line that is ranked next to last in the league, and who get's hit and pressured more than just about every QB in the  league is going to struggle and turn the ball over and that goes for every QB in the league. At least 2-3 of Jones INTs this season bounced off of Engrams hands ... there's just no excuse for that 

 

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4 hours ago, monk said:

Evan Engram should catch 100% of the balls that hit him in the hands ... 

Any QB is likely going to lead their team in turnovers because they touch the ball on every play.

A QB without a runnning game, without reliable receivers, with a line that is ranked next to last in the league, and who get's hit and pressured more than just about every QB in the  league is going to struggle and turn the ball over and that goes for every QB in the league. At least 2-3 of Jones INTs this season bounced off of Engrams hands ... there's just no excuse for that 

 

While I agree that Engram shouldn’t drop as many balls as he does, 100% catch rate isn’t a very realistic goal.

 

So when Jones has a clean pocket and open WR but misses the throw, is he not at fault then?

What about when he locks onto his first read and throws into coverage instead of an open secondary target, is he not at fault then?

How about when he forces a throw and gets picked off, instead of tucking the ball and running when there is at least 6 or 7 yards of green grass in front of him, is he not at fault then?

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Jones is in his second year. You can either sit these dudes for 2-4 years and have a competent to good to great QBs, or you can do what most teams do, grow impatient, start their young QB to get him on the job training and than act all shocked when he struggles. 

 

So tired of seeing young guys careers get cut short because of impatience and bad coaching. 

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10 hours ago, Yenrub said:

While I agree that Engram shouldn’t drop as many balls as he does, 100% catch rate isn’t a very realistic goal.

 

So when Jones has a clean pocket and open WR but misses the throw, is he not at fault then?

What about when he locks onto his first read and throws into coverage instead of an open secondary target, is he not at fault then?

How about when he forces a throw and gets picked off, instead of tucking the ball and running when there is at least 6 or 7 yards of green grass in front of him, is he not at fault then?

I believe that I heard statduring one of the games  that Jones has one of the best QB ratings in the NFL from a clean pocket 

Every QB misses a target including Rodgers, Mahomes and everyone else ... Jones has much less time then most other QBs to go through his progressions and to make it worse the Giant Receivers are some of the worst in the league at getting seperation and are terrible at catching contested balls

Jones runs more than most QBs ... In fact on that last Drive vs the Rams Jones was gassed after a number of huge plays escaping pressure to complete passess and 2 runs of 11 and 13 yards all within about a 40 second span ... because I believe the Giants had no timeouts 

I'm not saying Jones is great but considering No Running Game, 31st Ranked Oline, Terrible WRs, and tone of if not the toughest strength of Schedule for QBs ... He's pretty freakin good 

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1 hour ago, monk said:

I believe that I heard statduring one of the games  that Jones has one of the best QB ratings in the NFL from a clean pocket 

Every QB misses a target including Rodgers, Mahomes and everyone else ... Jones has much less time then most other QBs to go through his progressions and to make it worse the Giant Receivers are some of the worst in the league at getting seperation and are terrible at catching contested balls

Jones runs more than most QBs ... In fact on that last Drive vs the Rams Jones was gassed after a number of huge plays escaping pressure to complete passess and 2 runs of 11 and 13 yards all within about a 40 second span ... because I believe the Giants had no timeouts 

I'm not saying Jones is great but considering No Running Game, 31st Ranked Oline, Terrible WRs, and tone of if not the toughest strength of Schedule for QBs ... He's pretty freakin good 

You may not be saying that Jones is great but you sure as heck seem to be absolving him of ANY blame for this offense being 31st in yards and scoring. Which bothers me!

In your defense of Jones, you say that the RB’s sucked and point out that the OL was ranked 31st. Guess what the RB work behind that same OL.

I’m not saying that Jones is terrible, I’m saying that when the offense is this bad no one is without blame, EVERYONE deserves some blame.

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2 hours ago, Yenrub said:

You may not be saying that Jones is great but you sure as heck seem to be absolving him of ANY blame for this offense being 31st in yards and scoring. Which bothers me!

In your defense of Jones, you say that the RB’s sucked and point out that the OL was ranked 31st. Guess what the RB work behind that same OL.

I’m not saying that Jones is terrible, I’m saying that when the offense is this bad no one is without blame, EVERYONE deserves some blame.

Put Haskins, Darnold , Rosen on this team and they are 32 

Are you kidding me? Who were the Giant RBs this season? Alfred Morris, Devonta Freeman, Dion Lewis !!! These guys guys werent able to make another teams roster the past couple years!! And Guess what Jones out rushed them all.  I like Gallman ... not as featured back and either did the Giants or they wouldnt have brought in all of these retreads to start over him. 

Of course everyone is to blame ... he's a 2nd year QB,  in his 3rd offense in 3 years and no Preseason ... But he showed improvement down the st

Heard a stat today that 6 of the Giants 11 Ints were targeting Engram ... 3 of which bounced off of his hand or facemask. Engram also dropped the bomb that hit him in stride that would have ended the 1st Eagles game ... That is a significant negative impact from 1 player 

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1 hour ago, monk said:

Put Haskins, Darnold , Rosen on this team and they are 32 

Are you kidding me? Who were the Giant RBs this season? Alfred Morris, Devonta Freeman, Dion Lewis !!! These guys guys werent able to make another teams roster the past couple years!! And Guess what Jones out rushed them all.  I like Gallman ... not as featured back and either did the Giants or they wouldnt have brought in all of these retreads to start over him. 

Of course everyone is to blame ... he's a 2nd year QB,  in his 3rd offense in 3 years and no Preseason ... But he showed improvement down the st

Heard a stat today that 6 of the Giants 11 Ints were targeting Engram ... 3 of which bounced off of his hand or facemask. Engram also dropped the bomb that hit him in stride that would have ended the 1st Eagles game ... That is a significant negative impact from 1 player 

No I'm not kidding you! After Saquon went down the team had to rely on RB who are not top tier guys.

Gallman 4.6 ypc

Morris 4.3 ypc

Lewis 4.0 ypc

Freeman 3.2 ypc

Freeman sucked. The other guys gave us solid production

For reference here are the NFL leading rushers at RB this season

1.    Henry – 2,027 yds – 5.4 ypc

2.    Cook – 1,557 yds – 5.0 ypc

3.    Taylor – 1,169 yds – 5.0 ypc

4.    A. Jones – 1,104 – 5.5 ypc

5.    Montgomery – 1,070 – 4.3 ypc

6.    Robinson – 1,070 – 4.5 ypc

7.    Chubb – 1,067 – 6.3 ypc

8.    Jacobs – 1,065 – 3.9 ypc

9.    Gordon – 986 – 4.6 ypc

10.  Elliott – 979 – 4.0 ypc

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13 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

No I'm not kidding you! After Saquon went down the team had to rely on RB who are not top tier guys.

Gallman 4.6 ypc

Morris 4.3 ypc

Lewis 4.0 ypc

Freeman 3.2 ypc

Freeman sucked. The other guys gave us solid production

For reference here are the NFL leading rushers at RB this season

1.    Henry – 2,027 yds – 5.4 ypc

2.    Cook – 1,557 yds – 5.0 ypc

3.    Taylor – 1,169 yds – 5.0 ypc

4.    A. Jones – 1,104 – 5.5 ypc

5.    Montgomery – 1,070 – 4.3 ypc

6.    Robinson – 1,070 – 4.5 ypc

7.    Chubb – 1,067 – 6.3 ypc

8.    Jacobs – 1,065 – 3.9 ypc

9.    Gordon – 986 – 4.6 ypc

10.  Elliott – 979 – 4.0 ypc

Ok The Giant RBs were great you convinced me ... Thats why the Giants were last in the NFL in RB rushing yds and their QB was the 2nd leading rusher and lead them team in Yds per carry.   Oh and none of the RBs were receiving threats but other than that there yds per carry were ok 

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1 hour ago, monk said:

Ok The Giant RBs were great you convinced me ... Thats why the Giants were last in the NFL in RB rushing yds and their QB was the 2nd leading rusher and lead them team in Yds per carry.   Oh and none of the RBs were receiving threats but other than that there yds per carry were ok 

Where did I write that the RB’s were great? Please show where I mentioned them being great.

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3 hours ago, monk said:

Put Haskins, Darnold , Rosen on this team and they are 32

You know, it's possible for the entire draft to be full of bad qbs. Just because the bronco wr was cataclysmicly worse than Drew lock doesn't mean Lock was good.

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1 hour ago, wgoldsph said:

You know, it's possible for the entire draft to be full of bad qbs. Just because the bronco wr was cataclysmicly worse than Drew lock doesn't mean Lock was good.

Yeah anything is possible ... But Locks WRs , RBs, and oline ranked higher than the Giants.  He had some good weapons and an Elite LT and the #1 ranked WR in the 2020 draft but still ranked as one of the worst QBs in the league ... so there is that

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17 hours ago, monk said:

Ok The Giant RBs were great you convinced me ... Thats why the Giants were last in the NFL in RB rushing yds and their QB was the 2nd leading rusher and lead them team in Yds per carry.   Oh and none of the RBs were receiving threats but other than that there yds per carry were ok 

Just did some research... Giants were 29th in passing and 19th in rushing for the season.  Kind of goes against your theory here.

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13 hours ago, monk said:

Yeah anything is possible ... But Locks WRs , RBs, and oline ranked higher than the Giants.  He had some good weapons and an Elite LT and the #1 ranked WR in the 2020 draft but still ranked as one of the worst QBs in the league ... so there is that

Other players being worse isn't a sign that Jones is good.

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8 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

Just did some research... Giants were 29th in passing and 19th in rushing for the season.  Kind of goes against your theory here.

Not at all ... I said the WRs , TES, Oline and Offensive Coordinator Sucked! of course the passing yards and rushing yards sucked.

Also over 400 of those rushing Yards were Jones ..add that to QB performance and remove it from RB performance and we are dead last in the NFL in rushing 

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8 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

Other players being worse isn't a sign that Jones is good.

That's some logic.

So maybe Mahomes and Rodgers aren't good afterall ... everyone else is just worse then them.

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43 minutes ago, monk said:

Not at all ... I said the WRs , TES, Oline and Offensive Coordinator Sucked! of course the passing yards and rushing yards sucked.

Also over 400 of those rushing Yards were Jones ..add that to QB performance and remove it from RB performance and we are dead last in the NFL in rushing 

I'm sure if you removed the Giants QB rushing stats (and WR) from the team rushing stats while NOT removing QB and WR rushing stats from other teams rushing stats, the Giants would be dead last in rushing.

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26 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

I'm sure if you removed the Giants QB rushing stats (and WR) from the team rushing stats while NOT removing QB and WR rushing stats from other teams rushing stats, the Giants would be dead last in rushing.

How much of an impact do you really think that will have on the rankings? maybe 3-4 spots ... Once again youve convinced me that the Giants have grat RBs 

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2 hours ago, monk said:

How much of an impact do you really think that will have on the rankings? maybe 3-4 spots ... Once again youve convinced me that the Giants have grat RBs 

Yep 3 or 4 sounds about right. Once again I never wrote that they were great.

No one on the offense was great

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So, what do we think about Will Hernandez...2nd round pick in the Barkley draft.     Snap count WAY down after week 7, coinciding with his Covid.     Are we looking at a bust of a pick here or can he turn it around?         

We could have taken Quenton Nelson at #2 and Nick Chubb at #34, hindsight yeah...but I think I'd prefer those two than the Barkley/Hernandez combo that year.

 

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17 hours ago, Yenrub said:

Yep 3 or 4 sounds about right. Once again I never wrote that they were great.

No one on the offense was great

Nope ... but Jones was the lone bright spot 

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7 hours ago, kodycutter said:

So, what do we think about Will Hernandez...2nd round pick in the Barkley draft.     Snap count WAY down after week 7, coinciding with his Covid.     Are we looking at a bust of a pick here or can he turn it around?         

We could have taken Quenton Nelson at #2 and Nick Chubb at #34, hindsight yeah...but I think I'd prefer those two than the Barkley/Hernandez combo that year.

 

I think it is safe to say that Hernandez is a bust at this point. He's gotten worse every season and now has been beaten out by Shane Lemieux who pff has rated as the worst Gaurd in the NFL 84th out of 84 G's

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7 hours ago, kodycutter said:

So, what do we think about Will Hernandez...2nd round pick in the Barkley draft.     Snap count WAY down after week 7, coinciding with his Covid.     Are we looking at a bust of a pick here or can he turn it around?         

We could have taken Quenton Nelson at #2 and Nick Chubb at #34, hindsight yeah...but I think I'd prefer those two than the Barkley/Hernandez combo that year.

 

Nelson is the best guard in the league and one of the best offensive linemen in general.  I'd rather have him alone over Barkley and Hernandez.  IMO Hernandez is a bust and is one of the main reasons why the o-line as a whole hasn't been good.  He hasn't played well, but they invested in him so they stuck with him anyway.  I'm not surprised that a new head coach who has no investment in him basically benched him mid-season.

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