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2021 New York football Giants (3 Viewers)

Dr. Octopus said:
I think the trade was great but then Gettemen made a panic pick since he was likely locked into Smith and wanted to take a WR. On the positive side, Toney does seem like a playmaker who can make an impact on limited touches.
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Do you trust Jason Garrett to make that happen? I was side eyed about Toney to start with, but especially now. 

 
Redwes25 said:
Totally agree he was in panic mode as he wanted Smith.  Just glad the panic didn't happen at 11 and they made the trade.  I would have been jumping for joy if they had picked Paye at 20.  
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If dg was enamored with Smooth he should've traded UP. He knew the iggles wanted him. Anyways you guys are so right that he trades back acquires picks and drafts a guy who woulda been there in 2nd round. They've surpassed the Jets in draft day futility. This team in unbearably bad under DG. 

 
Then there is this ....

Toney was suspended prior to Florida’s 2018 season opener for “not living up to the Gator standard.” He was also stopped by Florida police that year and found to be in possession of an AR-15 rifle. He was not arrested. Finally, Toney has an interest outside of football as he raps under the name “Yung Joka.”

Terrible pick !

I mean how the hell do you draft this guy at all ...never mind at 20 ?!?!?!?!

 
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Trade down was the right move at that point.   Not sure I like the pick, but I'll reserve judgement til we see Toney play for us.     The extra first rounder next year is nice.   Bears play the NFC west and AFC North in 2021 - this could be a good pick that we get.    

Onto round 2 - who you guys like?

ER Joseph Ossai - Texas

ER Boogie Basham - Wake Forest

ER Azeez Ojulari - Georgia 

or OL?

 
kodycutter said:
Trade down was the right move at that point.   Not sure I like the pick, but I'll reserve judgement til we see Toney play for us.     The extra first rounder next year is nice.   Bears play the NFC west and AFC North in 2021 - this could be a good pick that we get.    

Onto round 2 - who you guys like?

ER Joseph Ossai - Texas

ER Boogie Basham - Wake Forest

ER Azeez Ojulari - Georgia 

or OL?
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If the Giants dont do something about this Oline ... It doesnt matter what offensive weapons they have or who they draft on defense!!!!

Our gaurds are Shane Lemieux and Will Hernandez ...Lemieux was ranked 80th of 80 Guards by PFF and he beat out Hernandez for the LG position in 2020 ... Hernandez is in the last year of his rookie contract.

As happy as were all were with Gates at Center it is only because of what we had before him ... he was ranked 27th of 36 centers by PFF

The  2020 Giants Oline was ranked anywhere from 27th to 31st depending on who's ranking you go by and they lost their best player 

They have to get one of these Centers in the 2nd and Guard in the 3rd or 4th or they will get Jones and Barkley killed 

  • Creed Humphrey 
  • Landon Dickerson 
  • Quinn Meinerz
3rd or 4th Round 

  • Wyatt Davis 
  • Aarron Banks 
  • Kendick Green 
 
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We now have additional picks in 2022 in the 1st, 3rd and 4th...in what I envision as a more complete college football season.    Cap may stay flattish due to covid, but that can always be worked around, but building through the draft will be the way to proceed.   Like what we've done so far with accumulating picks.

 
WTF is Gettleman doing? 

He's literally drafting for his succesor

I luv the trades and I like the picks but these guys arent going to make the Giants any better this year.

Without Oline they Giants are going to have a top 10-15 pick next year plus the Bears 1st rd pick ... For the new GM 

 
monk said:
Nice pick but again ... none of this matters if the oline sux 
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I'm a little surprised they didn't go OL with this pick but I guess they are happy (or at least content) with the young tackles (Thomas & Peart). There still seems to be some guards who can compete are still available. 

 
Giants... surprisingly having a great draft. I'm stunned. Azeez Ojulari is great value and once Jenkins got picked they made a good trade down. Aaron Robinson is a real solid pick as they are trying to upgrade CB so Graham can play a more aggressive scheme. Dude is big enough to play outside and he is a legit tackler/ballhawk.

4th round... maybe get a OL now? Not sure what's left but Trey Smith (OG) checks all the boxes. Keep in mind no 5th rounder but two 6ths this year.

 
Pick 3 was a disaster overall ... Potentially Good player but giving up a 5th round pick to move up 5 spots in the 3rd is squandering picks

But thats not the worst part ... The Giants passed up a number of IOL who could have stepped in and started for them day 1 and improved the team signficantly 

Watching these guys go off the board in the 3rd round was sooo painful!!!! 

  • Wyatt Davis 
  • Kendrick Green 
  • Quinn Mienerz
  • Ben Cleveland 
Giants added 3 players that I dont think are going to make them a better team this year ... They did not address their most glaring weakness ...IOL and there are no IOLs left on the board that will help them this year 

 
monk said:
Pick 3 was a disaster overall ... Potentially Good player but giving up a 5th round pick to move up 5 spots in the 3rd is squandering picks

But thats not the worst part ... The Giants passed up a number of IOL who could have stepped in and started for them day 1 and improved the team signficantly 

Watching these guys go off the board in the 3rd round was sooo painful!!!! 

  • Wyatt Davis 
  • Kendrick Green 
  • Quinn Mienerz
  • Ben Cleveland 
Giants added 3 players that I dont think are going to make them a better team this year ... They did not address their most glaring weakness ...IOL and there are no IOLs left on the board that will help them this year 
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Dude...take a look at your last 5 posts. Would anything make you happy? You are one of the those fans that would be critical no matter what.  
 

I have been here for almost 2 decades and it’s get tired of all the negatives. I too have been very critical of Gettleman. However, I still think they know more than us. I absolutely love the Toney and Ojulari selections. Plus we got solid draft capital for 2022. I’m from Florida and have seen what Toney can do to the teams in the SEC. He is a legit Tyreek Hill type that will be hard to stop in our offense. 

 
Dallas just screwed us again. They took Cox right before us. So we take a FCS linebacker that probably won’t contribute. Now here is where Monk’s complain would be understandable.

 
kodycutter said:
Trey Smith is who I'm hoping for here with the 4th.      Think we add a RB with one of the 6th round picks.
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The boys at big Blue Banter hate Smith .... pretty much think that he has no chance in the NFL ... Terrible balance and footwork.

But I agree with you ... I would take any 320lber at this point ...Giants are dreadfull at IOL 

 
Uncle Leo said:
Dude...take a look at your last 5 posts. Would anything make you happy? You are one of the those fans that would be critical no matter what.  
 

I have been here for almost 2 decades and it’s get tired of all the negatives. I too have been very critical of Gettleman. However, I still think they know more than us. I absolutely love the Toney and Ojulari selections. Plus we got solid draft capital for 2022. I’m from Florida and have seen what Toney can do to the teams in the SEC. He is a legit Tyreek Hill type that will be hard to stop in our offense. 
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First off dont give Gettleman too much credit ... Giants have been the worst team in the NFL over the past 3 season! They havent won the division or a playoff game in 8 seasons

Apparently Gettleman was really  pissed about missing out on Dickerson and Banks in the 2nd round ... Ojulari is a great pick at 50 but he's not going to have the impact on this team that Dickerson, Banks or Humphrey would have had 

And I'll Say it again ... You can put Toney and Tyreek Hill on this team and it's not going to matter if Saquan and Jones are getting mauled in the backfield 

Giants Oline was bottom 5 last season and lost their best player and did not replace him  ... It's not alright!

 
I'm guessing the Giants are going to have to look at the free agent market for OG help/competition.

The gold standard at OG is Q. Nelson, his overall PFF grade in 2020 was 86.2. The Giants lost Zeitler who had a 2020 PFF grade of 65.9. They did sign Zach Fulton who had a 2020 PFF grade of 63.0.

Hernandez - 58.1 & Lemieux 32.2

Here are some sub 30 year old free agents and their overall 2020 PFF grades (I don't subscribe to PFF so I can only see the overall grades.) 

Rashod Hill (MIN) – 72.4 

Jermaine Eluemunor (NE) – 68.0

Alex Redmond (CIN) – 61.5

Nick Easton (NO) – 59.6

Joe Dahl (DET) – 57.4

Trai Turner (LAC) – 34.8

 
Yeah, I guess the Giants think with the players they have getting a full camp and gelling together that maybe they have the framework of a line (Solder coming back, Thomas at RT, Lemeieux and Peart getting reps, etc.). Obviously they'll pick up someone the next few months but that became more of a necessity now.

One of their biggest needs was also OLB and boy did they address it. I'm hoping Patrick Graham plans to turn up the heat a little more with crashing LBs and unpredictable blitzes on the edge.

 
I get that Gettlepuke mad some nice trades for next years draft  ... I dont understand why he would do that because I highly doubt he will be here next year. Giants just cashed it after the 3rd pick ...

This is probably the Worst I've ever felt about a Giants draft in my life ...and that's saying a lot because I always hate the Giants draft  ... 3 picks who are basically depth picks and 3 picks who might make the practice squad   

  1. Kadarius Toney     WR
  2. Azeez Ojulari         EDGE
  3. Aaron Robinson    CB
  4. Elerson Smith        EDGE   
  5. Gary Brightwell      RB        
  6. Rodarius Williams  CB
What the hell happens if Gates get's injured ??? Is there anyone else on this roster who has ever played center???

Heres my draft ... 

  1. Kwity Paye            Edge 
  2. Creed Humphrey  Center/Guard 
  3. Kendrick Green     Guard /Center 
  4. Tyler Shelvin          DT 
  5. Simi Fehoko           WR
  6. Dylan Moses          LB
  7. Quincy Roche         Edge
Be real Fellas this is a better darft the Gettlemans!
 

 
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Just adding some pre-draft rankings for the draft class

(Dane Brugler top 100 rank / Daniel Jeremiah top 150 rank)

1.    Kadarrius Toney WR (25 / 28)

2.    Azeez Ojulari EDGE (16 / 30)

3.    Aaron Robinson CB (94/ 55)

4.    Elerson Smith EDGE (NR / 73)

5.    Gary Brightwell RB (NR / 138)

6.    Rodarius Williams CB (NR / NR)

 
Giants have signed UDFA 

Brett Heggie, OL, Florida

Jake Burton, OG-OT,  UCLA/Baylor

 
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The Frankman said:
Yeah, I guess the Giants think with the players they have getting a full camp and gelling together that maybe they have the framework of a line (Solder coming back, Thomas at RT, Lemeieux and Peart getting reps, etc.). Obviously they'll pick up someone the next few months but that became more of a necessity now.

One of their biggest needs was also OLB and boy did they address it. I'm hoping Patrick Graham plans to turn up the heat a little more with crashing LBs and unpredictable blitzes on the edge.
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I don’t think they will move Thomas over to the right side. They drafted him as the long-term solution at LT. Yes, he struggled as a rookie, but he seemed to get better in the 2nd half of the season.

 
Yenrub said:
Just adding some pre-draft rankings for the draft class

(Dane Brugler top 100 rank / Daniel Jeremiah top 150 rank)

1.    Kadarrius Toney WR (25 / 28)

2.    Azeez Ojulari EDGE (16 / 30)

3.    Aaron Robinson CB (94/ 55)

4.    Elerson Smith EDGE (NR / 73)

5.    Gary Brightwell RB (NR / 138)

6.    Rodarius Williams CB (NR / NR)
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I dont know who Dane Brugler is but PFF had the following 

Kadarius Toney - 39

Azeez Ojulari - 30

Aaron Robinson - 56

Elerson Smith - 181

Gary Brightwell - 242

Rodarius Williams - 158

 
Criticizing the GM for working towards the best long term success of his team is taking the complaining over the top, IMO.

 
I thought they had a good draft and picked up

Chicago Bears 2022 1st Rounder
Miami Dolphins 2022 3rd Rounder
Chicago Bears 2022 4th Rounder

Be nice to be rooting against the Bears all year long.     

 
Deamon said:
Damn, you totally nailed that.

Overall though a pretty good haul though to move back.  Was just very confused why they didn't take Paye there?
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Not sure I'm thrilled I hit on this one,however,the more I read about who we did get with the one the "less bad" I feel.

MAYBE this will work out. No more predictions right now though

 
For our complainer Monk...

Todd McShay, “ I'll leave the team grades to my guy Mel Kiper Jr., but I really liked what the Jets, Dolphins, Vikings and Giants did at the draft. The Jets got their QB in Zach Wilson and then surrounded him with talent, including some playmaking steals in Rounds 2 through 4. The Dolphins loaded up with five top-60 prospects on Thursday and Friday. And then the Vikings and Giants each got good value on trades and attacked multiple needs.”

 
Giants only signed 3 UDFA's ...Why?

Atlanta signed 20 ...Dallas Signed 13 

After only having 6 picks in the draft 2 of them 6th rounders ... why would they only sign 3 ???

They have Giants only have 5 IOLs on their roster?  3 G and 2 Centers ...None of them are very good and none of them are very expperienced. They couldnt have created some competion?

Something very odd going on in Giants land 

 
Uncle Leo said:
For our complainer Monk...

Todd McShay, “ I'll leave the team grades to my guy Mel Kiper Jr., but I really liked what the Jets, Dolphins, Vikings and Giants did at the draft. The Jets got their QB in Zach Wilson and then surrounded him with talent, including some playmaking steals in Rounds 2 through 4. The Dolphins loaded up with five top-60 prospects on Thursday and Friday. And then the Vikings and Giants each got good value on trades and attacked multiple needs.”
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I give the Giants credit for the trades which should come in handy next season  ... but through the Draft and UDFA process they Giants only added 3 players who could help them this season. Only one of the 3 is a position of need so 2 of the 3 are depth 

 
monk said:
I give the Giants credit for the trades which should come in handy next season  ... but through the Draft and UDFA process they Giants only added 3 players who could help them this season. Only one of the 3 is a position of need so 2 of the 3 are depth 
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I understand your emphasis on OL, but I really think you're letting it cloud your vision of what other needs this team had going into the offseason and how the guys they signed and drafted can play really significant roles, whether or not they'll be listed as starters. 

 
Let's look long term here and not be a NegaBob. Let's be a PosiBob. Here's a thought/hope/prediction for the

2021 season. NFC East plays out similiar to last season only this year The Giants come out on top at 7-10.

Da Bears ride with their rookie QB early and often,struggle, and finish no better than 5-12.

The Giants make the playoffs as division winners and get 2 number one picks next year inside the top 15 as well as

the other stockpiled picks from this draft.

2022.....The dynasty begins :banned:

 
I’m reading positives from just about every pundit. However, our own fans always think they know more. So tired of pessimistic folks that complain and make atmosphere so negative. 
 

Let’s Go G-Men!!!

 
Good article about 1st round draft pick Kadarius Toney 

https://www.bigblueview.com/2021/5/4/22415974/everything-you-need-to-know-about-giants-no-1-pick-kadarius-toney

I found this question & answer both funny and sad at the same time

Ed: Do you agree at all with the narrative some are pushing that a traditional OC like the Giants’ Jason Garrett might not be the best fit for Toney’s skillset?

Andy: Jason Garrett is capable of screwing up many things, but I do think that Toney is versatile enough that he’ll get in where he fits in. And I imagine that Daniel Jones is going to be the more important predictor of how Toney fares as a pro.
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The Athletic: What the New York Giants are getting in Kadarius Toney, who is both a highlight in waiting and a work in progress
 

Kadarius Toney was “The Human Joystick” for several years at Florida but he was not yet an NFL prospect. The stop-start acceleration of a Star Wars speeder bike made him a highlight in waiting. It just didn’t make him consistent.

That changed during Toney’s senior season when he harnessed all that God-given ability and committed himself to becoming an every-down player. The payoff came Thursday when he was selected No. 20 overall by the New York Giants.

Toney’s senior year receiving totals — 70 catches, 984 yards and 10 touchdowns — easily outpaced his previous career output of 50 receptions, 606 yards and two scores. To be fair, some of that early development was delayed by Toney clinging to dreams of playing quarterback. 

“Yeah, I reflect on it from time to time, more on the basis of how it really changed my life in a way,” he said. “Because I wouldn’t be here today probably if I didn’t make that (position) change, if I didn’t become a team player in that way. So I think about it, but it’s like I realize what it’s actually done for me — put me in a position to be successful.”

Getting the ball to Toney on handoffs and quick screens utilized his elusiveness, but challenging defenses downfield was something he emphasized in 2020. His route-running sharpened, making him unguardable on short crosses. He also torched Texas A&M (37 yards) and Alabama (51 yards) for touchdowns on go routes. 

“If you watch him from one year to the next, you see the huge steps that he’s taken,” Florida coach Dan Mullen said. “I think he understands that now. Now he knows how to play the receiver position, and he knows now the steps he needed … to take a big jump forward this past year. He’s going to continue to do that. I think he’s just really scratching the surface right now of what he’s going to become as a receiver at the next level.”

Mullen was the Gators’ offensive coordinator during the Percy Harvin era, designing plays for another multi-dimensional player of Toney’s ilk. Harvin went 22nd in the 2009 draft. Other slot-receiver comparisons that make sense are Tavon Austin (selected No. 8 overall in 2013) and five-time Pro Bowler Tyreek Hill (who dropped to the fifth round in 2016 because of character concerns).

If there’s a boom-or-bust feel to Toney, it’s understandable based upon him having only one special year at Florida. But then, that special year was his most recent one, which shows his development is on an upward trajectory.

Toney was perturbed by one anonymous report of a team wondering whether music might distract him from football. He has released two albums under his rap moniker Yung Joka.

Toney deemed the scout’s comments “real disrespectful,” adding that music “is not my first priority. (Football) is what I was born to do.” He likened singing and rapping to a hobby of self-expression that helped him through college and could become a passion only after his NFL career is finished.

“Don’t try to slander my football skills because I’m just as good at music,” he said. “That’s dead wrong, that’s wrong.”

Dane Brugler on Kadarius Toney (No. 4 wide receiver, No. 28 overall prospect in The Beast)

A loose, elastic athlete, Toney routinely makes the first man miss with special start/stop twitch, frustrating would-be tacklers and creating explosive plays. Though he is an improved route runner, he remains a work in progress with his steps and tempo, and his freelancing will backfire at times. Overall, Toney is still more of a gadget player than a polished receiver (and his off-field and durability will be debated in war rooms), but he boasts the one-step burst, body balance and underrated toughness to be a big-play ignitor. He projects as a versatile NFL weapon on offense and special teams.

Top college highlight

For physics-defying agility, rewind to the 2019 game against Florida State. That’s when Toney took a jet sweep and shook the entire Seminoles defense with an Allen Iverson-style crossover, which led to a 47-yard gain.

Such an unbelievable exhibit against a hated rival couldn’t be matched, but Toney sure gave it a try with a couple of elusive plays in 2020. He punctuated a 57-yard touchdown catch against South Carolina by blasting through a crowd of five defenders. Then against Mizzou, he dodged four tackles on a quick screen touchdown that required replay to properly behold.

Media moment

Throughout his career, it was easier to tackle Toney than to interview him. During his senior year, while emerging as an All-American, he made himself available to reporters just once, following the SEC championship loss to Alabama. Thing is, he’s a gregarious guy who seems at ease with candidly handling questions. It’s just something he rarely chose to do in college.

Being media averse didn’t make him social media averse, however. While his teammates were getting smoked by Oklahoma 55-20 in the Cotton Bowl on Dec. 30, a game in which Florida’s top three receivers opted out, Toney tweeted: 

“Don’t try to drag us kuz we handled business OUR way and not YALL’S”

While the tweet surpassed 1,300 likes, it generated plenty of blowback from those claiming Toney quit on a team. For the first time all season, Toney’s timing was off.

Coachspeak

Mullen claims to be a straight talker when NFL teams solicit intel regarding his players. He sees the pre-draft knocks on Toney are vanishing.

“He keeps really erasing every question people have about him everywhere he goes,” Mullen said. “OK, he’s a great athlete. If you put the ball in his hands, he’s a playmaker. Now he’s developed into a great wide receiver. He’s really quick, but is he that fast? I think he ran in the 4.3s (at pro day). He’s a guy that loves football and when you get around him, he’s just a great person to be around. So I think everywhere, every time there’s a question about him, he comes back and he answers it and he proves that he is elite and one of the top players in this year’s draft.”

Before last season’s Georgia-Florida matchup in Jacksonville, Bulldogs coach Kirby Smart put an emphasis on his defenders attacking Toney at the line of scrimmage.

“He was always good. Now, it’s like he’s a more polished receiver on top of the utility stuff,” Smart said. “He’s extremely hard to tackle. He’s got extreme one-step quickness and he plays powerful. When people hit him, he doesn’t go backwards. He’s physical in what he does.”

Toney was bottled up for 40 yards on 10 touches, one of only two games all season in which he didn’t produce a touchdown. But Florida won 44-28 because four other receivers scored touchdowns and three running backs repeatedly slipped behind Smart’s aggressive defense to net 212 yards receiving. Despite a quiet day individually, Toney converted a key third-and-9 catch for 21 yards in the fourth quarter by separating from NFL draft prospect Mark Webb on an option route.

“(Toney) made some unbelievable, spectacular plays,” said former Gators offensive coordinator Brian Johnson, who’s now with the Philadelphia Eagles. “He’s a nightmare in terms of his quickness, his agility, his ability to break tackles and his discipline as a route runner. He’s had some big-time plays and they might not have been crazy, highlight-reel, explosive plays. That third-down catch at the end of the game against Georgia is as big of a play as he’ll have all season.”

Superlative

Change-of-direction. Toney left would-be tacklers strewn all across SEC fields, and he’ll remain a threat for yards after the catch in the NFL. As he grows to understand leverage, he’ll be difficult to squeeze on jerk routes, and he could be situationally effective in short yardage by using motion to set up quick tosses to the edge. That shiftiness and 4.37 speed translate to the return game, potentially saving teams a roster spot.
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https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ny-kadarius-toney-first-round-pick-20210504-fpd3ioqnv5at7o7un7f6p3lwdm-story.html

I'm sorry ... You are all kidding yourselves if you belive that the Giants did their homework and found nothing wrong with an 18 year old college student / football player carrying a loaded assault riffle in the back seat of his car. 

This has RED FLAG !!!!! Written all over it !!!

I cant believe that Gettleman is not getting ripped about this after the Baker incident !!

 
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monk said:
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ny-kadarius-toney-first-round-pick-20210504-fpd3ioqnv5at7o7un7f6p3lwdm-story.html

I'm sorry ... You are all kidding yourselves if you belive that the Giants did their homework and found nothing wrong with an 18 year old college student / football player carrying a loaded assault riffle in the back seat of his car. 

This has RED FLAG !!!!! Written all over it !!!

I cant believe that Gettleman is not getting ripped about this after the Baker incident !!
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I get where you are coming from given the Baker situation. That being said it looks like Toney hasn’t had any issues since the gun possession issue. Which since this is America and people can own just about any type of gun we want, isn’t much of an issue.

He wasn’t arrested. He wasn’t carrying a gun illegally
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The above quote is from the article. 

 
Yenrub said:
I get where you are coming from given the Baker situation. That being said it looks like Toney hasn’t had any issues since the gun possession issue. Which since this is America and people can own just about any type of gun we want, isn’t much of an issue.

The above quote is from the article. 
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I know he wasnt arrested but let's be real he said he bought it for protection against the locals? whatever that means ...

He was invoilved in multiple incidents, fights, carring air soft guns on campus, suspensions and he's a rapper that goes by Yung Joka.  I read some teams didnt even have him on their draft boards because if these things. 

I just dont get why you would put yourself in that situation ... He's not Smith , Waddle , or Chase ... He's may not even be  Elijah or Ronadale moore. Is he really worth that kind of risk???

he's an unpolished receiver that doesnt run great routes and has only 1 year of production which wasnt even crazy good. The more I read and the more I hear about this gut the more pissed off I get about this pick ... it's stupid and doesnt make any sense no matter how you look at it  

 
I didn't like the Toney pick at all.  I thought they should have taken Darrisaw instead.  They had one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL last year (and pretty much every year for longer than Gettleman has been GM) and the main move they made was to cut their best player.  I know they get Solder back, but he's not good anymore and he had to take a massive pay cut to stay on the team.  As it stands, they didn't address the line at all in the draft, so they better hope Pert, Lemieux and Thomas improve a lot over last year.  I think neglecting the o-line is going to wind up being a big mistake.  Combined with keeping Garret, who was in way over his head last year, they are really betting on significant improvements from pretty much everyone from last year.  That seems unrealistic to me.

Otherwise, I liked this draft a lot.  I really like trading down and getting the extra 1st for next year.  With Darrisaw and Paye still available at 20, I was liking the trade even more at the time.  I really like the Ojulari pick.  I had seen a lot of mock drafts and rankings that had him as a 1st round pick.  Not only does that pick seem like good value, but he also fills a need.  I also like the Robinson pick.  Another good value pick and you can never have too many good CBs.

 
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