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Conspiracy Theories (1 Viewer)

Max Power said:
Interesting twist indeed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7840445/Hunter-Bidens-Burisma-dealings-pulled-Arkansas-child-support-suit.html

Shokin's witness statement is now in play in Hunter Biden's child support case.  If I'm understanding correctly because Hunter pled "Poverty" outside parties are able to request entry into the case to testify to his financial situation. 
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It's Independence County Arkansas.

- That's a county of maybe 35-40,000 people. Batesville AR has about 10,000. Hunter's prior counsel already withdrew for a conflict, and I'm guessing that's what's happening here with the judge. Usually small towns and parishes that gets a pass, but not here. I'm guessing the judge discovered he knows someone involved.

McSpadden already struck down one attempt at intervention, just this week, saying there was no right under Arkansas law. I'm guessing the same thing will happen here. I can't imagine any county judge anywhere wanting this circus in their courtroom.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
It's Independence County Arkansas.

- That's a county of maybe 35-40,000 people. Batesville AR has about 10,000. Hunter's prior counsel already withdrew for a conflict, and I'm guessing that's what's happening here with the judge. Usually small towns and parishes that gets a pass, but not here. I'm guessing the judge discovered he knows someone involved.

McSpadden already struck down one attempt at intervention, just this week, saying there was no right under Arkansas law. I'm guessing the same thing will happen here. I can't imagine any county judge anywhere wanting this circus in their courtroom.
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It could be.  Although the timing is definitely weird.  He was the trial lawyer for 7 months without issue and conducted the trial to start the day and recused himself before lunch after the international side of the issue started making claims. 

Apparently he has to issue a written statement about it in a timely manner. 

It also sounds like the third party will be allowed to make their case about Hunter's finances and opens the door to whatever they want to present to the court. 

 
Max Power said:
It could be.  Although the timing is definitely weird.  He was the trial lawyer for 7 months without issue and conducted the trial to start the day and recused himself before lunch after the international side of the issue started making claims. 

Apparently he has to issue a written statement about it in a timely manner. 

It also sounds like the third party will be allowed to make their case about Hunter's finances and opens the door to whatever they want to present to the court. 
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Casey's petition was already dismissed so I'm not sure I see why this is different.

He claimed in Monday's filing that he wanted in on the case so he could get his hands on Biden's bank account records in order to prove he allegedly received $1.5 billion from Chinese companies that 'hustled Americans out of their life savings'.

Caplan told Judge Don McSpadden to 'follow the money' and in a 30-page filing, lays out how he was allegedly swindled out of 10 years of his life savings in a 'multi-billion dollar stock scheme known as the China Hustle.'

Caplan, who filed papers from Jerusalem, Israel, claims many Chinese nationals made fortunes from the ploy, which involved presenting fake company documents and claiming they were genuine investments when they were actual frauds.
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- So a guy from Jerusalem has filed a petition in a Batesville, Independence County AR paternity suit, claiming that he invested in some sort of fund (?) involving "Chinese companies" and doesn't even mention BHR. Ok, we'll see what the next judge does. 

eta - Here is Caplan's motion to intervene.

- It's filed pro se, from Jerusalem (with no address), it's 30 pages, and the claims are, er, spurious.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Casey's petition was already dismissed so I'm not sure I see why this is different.

- So a guy from Jerusalem has filed a petition in a Batesville, Independence County AR paternity suit, claiming that he invested in some sort of fund (?) involving "Chinese companies" and doesn't even mention BHR. Ok, we'll see what the next judge does. 
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I don't know what makes this guy different than Casey.  Casey is a PI and I guess this other guy has had direct financial interactions with Hunter (from what I gathered). So that could be the difference. 

It's all really a circus right now, but the recusal timing does strike me as weird.  Which is why it would be great to get the thoughts of one of the board lawyers on how common/uncommon this is. 

 
150 MPH slide-in,drift park like Fast N' Furious:  Just listening to Kanye West's Late Registration with both Lupe Fiasco and Kanye on tracks.

Wondering how the government managed to "administer AIDS" and prop up 9/11.

Always wondered why both artists (yes, even Kanye) wasn't bigger in pubic consciousness. Maybe it was partially that.

Anyway, heard the song and thought of this thread. 

 
Max Power said:
Unverified.  Interesting if true. 
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It’s verified... but what Posobiec doesn’t tell his audience is that the case has nothing to do with Burisma. It’s a company called Kuznya and it’s associated with the clique that Giuliani is backed by. There are likely a dozen such corruption cases at issue, but when Trump talks about ‘corruption’ he has none of these in mind.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
It’s verified... but what Posobiec doesn’t tell his audience is that the case has nothing to do with Burisma. It’s a company called Kuznya and it’s associated with the clique that Giuliani is backed by. There are likely a dozen such corruption cases at issue, but when Trump talks about ‘corruption’ he has none of these in mind.
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Wait...so the corruption in question here actually has ties to Rudy?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
It’s verified... but what Posobiec doesn’t tell his audience is that the case has nothing to do with Burisma. It’s a company called Kuznya and it’s associated with the clique that Giuliani is backed by. There are likely a dozen such corruption cases at issue, but when Trump talks about ‘corruption’ he has none of these in mind.
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But this is still the guy the Obama administration was saying was a good guy right? Not part of the corruption problem. It's too hard to keep their corruption diagram straight.

 
Max Power said:
But this is still the guy the Obama administration was saying was a good guy right? Not part of the corruption problem. It's too hard to keep their corruption diagram straight.
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I think somewhere in here one of the articles I posted discussed how Poroshenko came in as a reformer but eventually turned into a disappointment. Same is true of Shokin, same is true of Lushenko. Part of the reason that Biden had to be so forceful is that Poroshenko wasn't doing anything about Shokin who wasn't seriously investigating or prosecuting anything worth jack squat, that's the point. 

 
sho nuff said:
Wait...so the corruption in question here actually has ties to Rudy?
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In 2018, Poroshenko and Kononenko sold the shipyard for approximately $300 million to tycoon Serhiy Tigipko, an ex-politician and owner of the TAS banking group.

Andriy Portnov, a lawyer and former deputy chief of staff under former President Viktor Yanukovych, who left the country in 2014 after his boss was ousted by the EuroMaidan Revolution, accused Poroshenko and Tigipko of money laundering.
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Not exactly, I'm saying the people under investigation are part of the old Party of Regions / Yanukovych clique. Tigipko is a former client of Manafort's. At some point Poroshenko's administration just stopped investigating these people, including Tigipko, Manafort, and others.

 
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rockaction said:
Always wondered why both artists (yes, even Kanye) wasn't bigger in pubic consciousness.
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Per the bolded

:lol:

How can you be sure they aren't?

Freudian slip?

:lol:

ETA: "Pubic Consciousness is the name of my ________________ cover band"

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
I think somewhere in here one of the articles I posted discussed how Poroshenko came in as a reformer but eventually turned into a disappointment. Same is true of Shokin, same is true of Lushenko. Part of the reason that Biden had to be so forceful is that Poroshenko wasn't doing anything about Shokin who wasn't seriously investigating or prosecuting anything worth jack squat, that's the point. 
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Money and power corrupts. And more so where the legal system is not exactly untainted

 
Iran’s hostilities substantially increased after the foolish Iran nuclear deal was signed in 2013, and they were given $150 billion, not to mention $1.8 billion in cash.  Instead of saying “thank you” to the United States, they chanted “death to America.”  In fact, they chanted “death to America” the day the agreement was signed.

Then, Iran went on a terror spree, funded by the money from the deal, and created hell in Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, Afghanistan, and Iraq.  The missiles fired last night at us and our allies were paid for with the funds made available by the last administration.  
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Trump today.

 
Stealthycat said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/08/informant-says-moscow-paid-millions-in-bid-to-influence-clinton.html

An FBI informant involved in the controversial Uranium One deal has told congressional committees that Moscow paid millions to a U.S. lobbying firm in a bid to influence then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton by helping former President Bill Clinton’s charities during the Obama administration.

The Hill first reported late Wednesday that informant Douglas Campbell gave a 10-page statement to the Senate Judiciary Committee, House Intelligence Committee and House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, and was interviewed for several hours behind closed doors by committee staff.

In the statement, obtained by Fox News, Campbell said Russian executives told him that Moscow was hiring APCO Worldwide in an effort to influence the Obama administration and Hillary Clinton.

Campbell said Russian nuclear officials “told me at various times that they expected APCO to apply a portion of the $3 million annual lobbying fee it was receiving from the Russians to provide in-kind support for the Clinton’s Global Initiative.”

“The contract called for four payments of $750,000 over twelve months,” Campbell said in the statement. “APCO was expected to give assistance free of charge to the Clinton Global Initiative as part of their effort to create a favorable environment to ensure the Obama administration made affirmative decisions on everything from Uranium One to the US-Russia Civilian Nuclear Cooperation agreement.” 

“[The Russians] were so confident that they told Mr. Campbell with the Clinton’s help, it was a shoo-in to get CFIUS [The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States] approval,” Toensing said on “Hannity.” “They were so confident in that that they even had him open up the new office because they were planning on the kind of business they were going to do as soon as CFIUS approved it.”
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^From the Russia thread.

So apparently this started off the Huber investigation which as we now know has led to nothing. But still it started with a John Solomon report using Campbell as a "source".

Douglas Campbell is as it turns out another Toensing client.

- Solomon of course is a Toensing/Degenova client also. Basically what's been happening is that Toensing has been running disinformation from other "clients" through John Solomon to the larger viewing public via Fox and directly into the White House.

 
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Max Power said:
because it doesn't make a lot of sense and is missing some basic parts. 
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I'll allow it...continue with your thought please.  What's missing that makes it an actual conspiracy theory rather than a running theory that hasn't been completely pieced together (or debunked) yet? 

 
The Commish said:
I'll allow it...continue with your thought please.  What's missing that makes it an actual conspiracy theory rather than a running theory that hasn't been completely pieced together (or debunked) yet? 
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The AP speculating in the article is what I didn't care for. Stating...

The timing of the operation raises the possibility that Russian agents could be searching for material damaging to the Bidens or scheming to plant forged data and sow misinformation online.
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and included a unattributed quote.

A spokesman for Biden said in a statement that the incident shows that not just Trump but also Russian President Vladimir Putin “sees Joe Biden as a threat.”
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These sentences are implying motive to unconfirmed reporting.  This hasn't 100% been confirmed to be Russian and if so, no one is sure what their motive was. 

This private company Area 1 claims to have uncovered Russian Hacking into Burisma Holdings by using Phishing emails.  They concluded it was Russia by correlating TTPs and websites previously used by Russia in Phishing attempts.  However other experts aren't so quick to agree.

Some cybersecurity experts cautioned against blaming Russian military agents without more evidence, however, saying the report indicates Area 1 investigators didn’t have access to Burisma’s internal logs and compromised email accounts in making the determination.
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The owner makes statements "It was not clear what the hackers were looking for or may have obtained".  and “Our report doesn’t make any claims as to what the intent of the hackers were, what they might have been looking for, what they are going to do with their success. We just point out that this is a campaign that’s going on,”

Even the ones who say it is likely Russia offer other possibilities.

And while many experts said it’s a good bet the phishing amounts to a Kremlin attempt to smear the Bidens, there are other possibilities. Michael Connell, a former Army intelligence officer and researcher at the government-funded Center for Naval Analyses, notes that Russian agents have previously attacked energy-related computer systems in other countries, most notably Germany.
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So the democrats are already running with a narrative that this is more Russian election interference and they are helping Trump win.  Hillary is already tweeting as much, when there is nothing confirmed at this point.

Now I'd love for the AP to report some more on Area 1 and how they got involved in the Burisma situation.  Are they working for Burisma?  Should they have been preventing this, but it happened anyway.  Or are they just a concerned company looking out for Burisma and offering their unsolicited conclusions?

 
Max Power said:
The Commish said:
I'll allow it...continue with your thought please.  What's missing that makes it an actual conspiracy theory rather than a running theory that hasn't been completely pieced together (or debunked) yet? 
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The AP speculating in the article is what I didn't care for. Stating...

The timing of the operation raises the possibility that Russian agents could be searching for material damaging to the Bidens or scheming to plant forged data and sow misinformation online.
Click to expand...
and included a unattributed quote.

A spokesman for Biden said in a statement that the incident shows that not just Trump but also Russian President Vladimir Putin “sees Joe Biden as a threat.”
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These sentences are implying motive to unconfirmed reporting.  This hasn't 100% been confirmed to be Russian and if so, no one is sure what their motive was. 

This private company Area 1 claims to have uncovered Russian Hacking into Burisma Holdings by using Phishing emails.  They concluded it was Russia by correlating TTPs and websites previously used by Russia in Phishing attempts.  However other experts aren't so quick to agree.

Some cybersecurity experts cautioned against blaming Russian military agents without more evidence, however, saying the report indicates Area 1 investigators didn’t have access to Burisma’s internal logs and compromised email accounts in making the determination.
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The owner makes statements "It was not clear what the hackers were looking for or may have obtained".  and “Our report doesn’t make any claims as to what the intent of the hackers were, what they might have been looking for, what they are going to do with their success. We just point out that this is a campaign that’s going on,”

Even the ones who say it is likely Russia offer other possibilities.

And while many experts said it’s a good bet the phishing amounts to a Kremlin attempt to smear the Bidens, there are other possibilities. Michael Connell, a former Army intelligence officer and researcher at the government-funded Center for Naval Analyses, notes that Russian agents have previously attacked energy-related computer systems in other countries, most notably Germany.
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So the democrats are already running with a narrative that this is more Russian election interference and they are helping Trump win.  Hillary is already tweeting as much, when there is nothing confirmed at this point.

Now I'd love for the AP to report some more on Area 1 and how they got involved in the Burisma situation.  Are they working for Burisma?  Should they have been preventing this, but it happened anyway.  Or are they just a concerned company looking out for Burisma and offering their unsolicited conclusions?
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Thanks....the Biden rep's comment made me :rolleyes:  but the rest seemed upfront.  That's why I asked why it was in the Conspiracy Theory thread.  Doesn't read that way to me and thought I might be missing something.  What the Dems are doing with it is irrelevant (IMO) to what the actual article is saying though their :hophead: also garners a :rolleyes:  from me for now.  But that's about THEM, not this report.  The report seems fine.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Because the Burisma story and who is generating it as disinformation is something I've just been posting about here. It arguably could go in the Whistleblower/Impeachment thread or maybe the cybersecurity one...
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My only point was that it's not quite at "conspiracy" level IMO.  I found it here because I had done a search on the board to see if anyone had posted it.  I was going to start a new thread because it seems like it's own topic, but I found it here....thus the question.

 
The Commish said:
My only point was that it's not quite at "conspiracy" level IMO.  I found it here because I had done a search on the board to see if anyone had posted it.  I was going to start a new thread because it seems like it's own topic, but I found it here....thus the question.
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The Burisma story is though. I think the question is who has been driving it. Here IMO basically having failed at the Zelensky avenue, during November when all that was falling apart according to this cybersecurity group the Russians probed Burisma - and also btw a media org founded by Zelensky itself.

I’m not sure about the cybersecurity group, but if the report is accurate it certainly leads to the possibility of “leaks” - false or real - gradually being dropped out to attack Biden. What’s more the Russians can basically manufacture disinformation off of this whether based on real data or not.

 
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I think this thread is about to get more busy....can't really make this stuff up.  Ukraine is opening an investigation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This going to be the standard "deep state" stuff?

 
The Commish said:
I think this thread is about to get more busy....can't really make this stuff up.  Ukraine is opening an investigation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This going to be the standard "deep state" stuff?
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Unfortunately, Ukraine has a long trail of dead politicians and journalists so this is all too familiar for them. In fact one of the people involved in this is the son of a politician who contracted the murder of a journalist.

Meanwhile in the US the State Department has not even commented on this yet.

 
I found this note on Area 1 to be interesting.

Mr. Falkowitz is a significant donor to Democrats; and even more intriguing, the company's CSO - Blacke Darche - also worked at the NSA and most notably, Crowdstrike.
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Max Power said:
I found this note on Area 1 to be interesting.

Mr. Falkowitz is a significant donor to Democrats; and even more intriguing, the company's CSO - Blacke Darche - also worked at the NSA and most notably, Crowdstrike.
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If this is about the Burisma hack report, I don't think interrelationships in the cybersecurity industry to be that surprising, it's a small community, but I do think the report looks a little flimsy and IIRC Area 1 was caught up in a controversial claim about Chinese hacking a while back. However Zelensky's media group is also claiming it was hacked in the same way.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
If this is about the Burisma hack report, I don't think interrelationships in the cybersecurity industry to be that surprising, it's a small community, but I do think the report looks a little flimsy and IIRC Area 1 was caught up in a controversial claim about Chinese hacking a while back. However Zelensky's media group is also claiming it was hacked in the same way.
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I didn't know Zelensky's media group was claiming the same thing.  Did they confirm the hack and/or what was accessed? I've only seen that Area 1 said the Zelensky group was also a target. 

I find Blake Darche being a founding member of crowdstrike to be of interest.  Maybe not a game changer, but its more of the same fingerprints in a similar plot line.  The CT in me already sees how this story is going to play out and anything that looks bad on the Bidens related to Burisma now has the associated story lines written. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Just as an example, this is from the Central Criminal Court of London from 9/21/15, about their attempts to punish Zlochevsky, the owner of Burisma:

The Ukrainian authorities had written on a number of occasions to the applicant giving information about inquiries that had been opened but had not progressed to the point where evidence of wrongdoing had been discovered such as to require the prosecutor to inform MZ that he was a suspect. Shortly before the hearing of this application a letter dated 2 December 2014 was received from the General Prosecutor of Ukraine stating that in respect of five separately identified investigations opened between 19 December 2012 and 6 August 2014 ( including 155 and another investigation 181) ‘allegation notification was not delivered to MZ due to absence of grounds for criminal prosecution.’
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Shokin was Prosecutor at the time. 
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@quick-handsthis is actually the opinion of the UK court but this was a summary of what was at issue there as presented to it by the prosecutors:

The hearing before HHJ Kramer QC was short, some 19 minutes in length, and oral evidence was limited to the question of the dividend disclosure relied on as evidence of the defendant’s dishonesty.

The substance of the case put in the witness statement and supporting skeleton argument was that there were reasonable grounds to believe that the defendant had engaged in criminal conduct in Ukraine and the funds in the BNP account were believed to be the proceeds of such criminal conduct because:

i. His wealth increased when he held public office and the only apparent source of his private wealth was from the exploitation of mineral licences awarded to his companies when he held public office.

ii. Although no specific offence of bribery or fraud could be identified at this early stage in the investigation, the potential for conflict of interest ‘gives rise to a clear inference of a wilful and dishonest exploitation of a direct conflict of interest by a man holding an important public office such as to amount to an abuse of the public’s trust in him’. Such conduct would, if committed in this jurisdiction, amount to an offence of misconduct in public office.

iii. The complicated pattern of off -shore holding companies established when he was still a serving Minister was effectively to conceal his beneficial ownership of Burisma and the economically active enterprises of which it was the holding company. The court could draw the inference of dishonest motive for the corporate structure.

iv. Scrutiny of the statements of the BNP accounts shows very limited activity and this is an indicator that their primary purpose was to facilitate the transfer of criminal property.

v. The recent attempt to transfer the assets was troubling evidence of an attempt to avoid sanctions and freezing orders by transferring the funds to the companies’ accounts in Cyprus
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- The defendant here was against:

MYKOLA ZLOCHEVSKYI Defendant
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Zlochevsky was the man behind the corruption at Burisma. The board is not mentioned, Hunter Biden is not mentioned, the events at issue all took place in 2012 or before when Zlochevsky was Minister over environment and natural resources, basically self dealing on mineral rights licenses: 

During this second period the defendant held the posts successively of Chairman of the State Committee for Material Reserves (March to July 2010); Minister of Environmental Protection (July to December 2010); Minister of the Environment and Natural Resources (December 2010 to April 2012) and Deputy Secretary of National Security (April 2012 to February 2014). The first three positions were connected with the licensing of exploration and production of the natural resources of Ukraine.
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So Zklochevsky was wanted for things he did about insider licensing in the first three positions, through 2012, well before 2014. Hunter Biden did not come on to the board of Burisma until May of 2014. Zlochevsky was eventually thrown out of the country entirely. Hunter Biden never played a role in this investigation and he literally could not have because he was not around for the acts that happened. Look through the linked report, you won't find any Biden or even the board. There's more info in this thread starting around pages 4-5 on down.

 
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Bozeman Bruiser said:
Saints is putting in PhD level efforts here to defend Joe Biden bribing Ukraine with a billion dollars to fire a prosecutor investigating the gas company that is paying his son millions of dollars.

First it was "Joe actually wanted a prosecutor to investigate Burisma harder!".

Then it was "the entire EU (shocker, their pockets are stained with the blood of the Iran and Ukraine money just as much as Biden/Kerry/McCain/etc) thinks that Prosecutor Man Bad too".

Now he has moved on to "okay, so Burisma was corrupt, but it was for things that occurred before Hunter Biden started getting paid, so that means ..... "

What Burisma was being investigated for is irrelevant.

They were being investigated.

Lil Crackhead Biden was getting paid millions (that he apparently has lost because he can't pay child support to his stripper baby mama in Arkansas).

Burisma investigation could potentially lead to problems for the company, which in turn could lead to the Biden gravy train being cut off.

Daddy Joe steps in and threatens to withhold a billion dollars in aid of the prosecutor investigating Burisma is not fired. This is all on video, he admits it himself.

And now Daddy Biden is threatening media outlets to not cover the Ukraine scandal. They must declare it a debunked conspiracy. Talk about authoritarian dictator.
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Sorry but your conspiracy theory simply doesn't match the timeline.

No matter how hard you try to twist time, you cannot change the fact that it was Shokin who refused to investigate Burisma, and it was Shokin who Biden wanted fired.

If Shokin had actually been investigating Hunter Biden -- and Biden wanted Shokin fired for it -- then your theory might hold water. But that's simply not what happened. At all.

 
Bozeman Bruiser said:
Saints is putting in PhD level efforts here to defend Joe Biden bribing Ukraine with a billion dollars to fire a prosecutor investigating the gas company that is paying his son millions of dollars.

First it was "Joe actually wanted a prosecutor to investigate Burisma harder!".

Then it was "the entire EU (shocker, their pockets are stained with the blood of the Iran and Ukraine money just as much as Biden/Kerry/McCain/etc) thinks that Prosecutor Man Bad too".

Now he has moved on to "okay, so Burisma was corrupt, but it was for things that occurred before Hunter Biden started getting paid, so that means ..... "

What Burisma was being investigated for is irrelevant.

They were being investigated.

Lil Crackhead Biden was getting paid millions (that he apparently has lost because he can't pay child support to his stripper baby mama in Arkansas).

Burisma investigation could potentially lead to problems for the company, which in turn could lead to the Biden gravy train being cut off.

Daddy Joe steps in and threatens to withhold a billion dollars in aid of the prosecutor investigating Burisma is not fired. This is all on video, he admits it himself.

And now Daddy Biden is threatening media outlets to not cover the Ukraine scandal. They must declare it a debunked conspiracy. Talk about authoritarian dictator.
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The prosecutor wasn’t actually investigating them though.  Unless you inly listen to the guy who was fired and people like John Solomon.

 
I'm normally a left/Democrats cover it up guy but

the air naval terrorist attack weeks ago that resulted in what, 15 or so being deported because of their ties etc ........... and no blip 5-6 weeks later, nada, nothing

this was another attack, terrorism, US soil .... by Saudi Arabia nationals ..... and nothing ?  

smells to me, bigtime

 
quick-hands said:
It's all about saudi making OPEC trade in us dollars.   Get rid of that.  Dollars aren't the worlds reserve currency. 
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we could be oil independent with a few more years of electric cars but yeah, Saudi seems to be the country that can terrorize the world and yet, nothing is ever done to them

 
Bozeman Bruiser said:
Saints is putting in PhD level efforts here to defend Joe Biden bribing Ukraine with a billion dollars to fire a prosecutor investigating the gas company that is paying his son millions of dollars.

First it was "Joe actually wanted a prosecutor to investigate Burisma harder!".

Then it was "the entire EU (shocker, their pockets are stained with the blood of the Iran and Ukraine money just as much as Biden/Kerry/McCain/etc) thinks that Prosecutor Man Bad too".

Now he has moved on to "okay, so Burisma was corrupt, but it was for things that occurred before Hunter Biden started getting paid, so that means ..... "

What Burisma was being investigated for is irrelevant.

They were being investigated.

Lil Crackhead Biden was getting paid millions (that he apparently has lost because he can't pay child support to his stripper baby mama in Arkansas).

Burisma investigation could potentially lead to problems for the company, which in turn could lead to the Biden gravy train being cut off.

Daddy Joe steps in and threatens to withhold a billion dollars in aid of the prosecutor investigating Burisma is not fired. This is all on video, he admits it himself.

And now Daddy Biden is threatening media outlets to not cover the Ukraine scandal. They must declare it a debunked conspiracy. Talk about authoritarian dictator.
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Article from when shokin was fired in 2016.

I feel like reading the news at the time rather than the 3 year later spin during an emotionally charged impeachment trial might be worth the time. 

 
quick-hands said:
We agree zlot is a real bad dude.  I dont think hunter was being investigated.  I think burisma was was being investigated.  I might have missed someplace to where it mentioned that Ukraine  wasn't investigating burisma.

Having all this stuff going down and then biden getting hired.  And the guy investigating  burisma  got removed by our vp.
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He wasn't investigating Burisma. That's the point. That's why Obama wanted him to be fired.

 
quick-hands said:
[scooter] said:
He wasn't investigating Burisma. That's the point. That's why Obama wanted him to be fired.
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You should read the thing.  This is a court case before biden was put on the board.
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Right. There are two fundamental flaws in the Hunter Biden argument:

1. the actual court case is from 2012, two years before Hunter Biden joined Burisma's board.

2. the theory that Hunter Biden was hired in 2014 to discourage further investigations by Shokin....is completely contradicted by the fact that Joe Biden wanted Shokin fired.

In essence, Trump supporters are inadvertently arguing that Joe Biden is a man of integrity for putting his son's livelihood and freedom at risk.

 
quick-hands said:
You should read the thing.  This is a court case before biden was put on the board.
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Hold on, stop, the opinion is from late 2015. Hunter Biden had been on the board already for something like 17 months. The point is the criminal acts occurred before Hunter was on the board. He had nothing to do with the accusations at issue.

 
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quick-hands said:
But it in no was cleared hunter biden or joe biden of not fixing the investigation.
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Scooter's been covering this - look at the other links in the thread. There are several problems with this claim:

  • Shokin was protecting oligarchs, including Zlochevsky.
  • Shokin was driven out by Parliament but also by general world pressure.
  • Luschenko replaced him but he also failed to prosecute, Zlochevsky, Burisma, and other oligarchs. He was also driven out by public opinion and Parliament in Ukraine when Zelensky was elected on a widely popular pro-reform platform.
  • If Biden was in any way aware that his son was subject to any legal exposure he was then surely hurting his son by trying to force Ukraine to adopt a more pro-reform legal posture.
- There are loads of details on this from reporting from when it was happening. It's understandable that it's complex, I don't blame people for not fully understanding this, but if you want to educate yourself you can.

 
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The other part of the opinion worth noting is that Shokin - the guy whom supposedly Trump claims The Bidens were suppressing and who he wanted fired - went out of his way to tell the UK court there was no investigation at all and instead it was a police matter.

 
quick-hands said:
Why do you assume they would name the vice president of the United States  for telling the president  of ukraine to fire a prosecutor in ukraine?  What does that have to do with an English Law case?   
Click to expand...
You’re losing track. The opinion is in September 2015, Joe Biden made his demand for reform in the system December 2015. Please see my just prior post.

 
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quick-hands said:
He was driven out by 1 man.  And a billion dollars.  

Do you think he would have been removed that day if it wasn't for biden?
Click to expand...
That is just contrary to so many things.  And it wasn't one man...it was US policy (along with other countries pressure as well)

 
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