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Undocumented Immigrant Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
With a temporary spending bill that kicks the can down the road a month or so followed by a longer term spending bill without wall funding once the uproar has died down.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Trolling other posters and calling everyone you disagree with liars isn’t exactly advancing the discourse.
adonis
Footballguy
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
the rover
Footballguy
zoonation
Footballguy
This. The Dems hold all the cards. The GOP senators will start defecting in the next few days. It’s a loser, has been since trump cracked an egg on his face in the Oval Office.
And Trump knows it. He’s already pivoted and is using this as a campaign reelection platform.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I think Republicans in blue/purple states are going to start bouncing, and putting pressure to re-open the government as the affects start to get felt. Eventually, McConnell will have to give in to them.
Trump will go along with it. He will get the shutdown “record” this weekend and he has successfully put on the show and be satisfied that he can make “build the wall” a rallying cry in 2020 again. I don’t think he wants a deal at all; he just wants a campaign issue.
So, I could see it ending early next week.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Followed by Trump taking tons of heat from his supporters until he finally uses executive order to build border fencing that gets challenged in court but ultimately holds.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
OK
You can have your stupid wall. It shall be paid for by undoing the tax cuts for the 1%. That covers the construction cost. The cost of the shameful symbol that the wall represents will be paid for by having an immigration policy that anyone that asks to get in is allowed in with some reasonable vetting (what is reasonable is for the non wall side to decide). Those already here would be treated as if they retroactively asked in. For the period necessary for vetting existing undocumented folks they will gain access to anything they are currently prohibited from receiving such as subsidized health insurance on the exchanges. There will be no obstacles for citizenship and in being granted citizenship they will be provided with whatever ID is necessary to vote where applicable. Dreamers can be vetted first. Deal?
the rover
Footballguy
adonis
Footballguy
I'm here to help you in this time of national crisis.
I made you an origami paper wall to show I care. _|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
the rover
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
I’ve done no trolling nor calling anyone a liar for disagreeing. I called Ingrahams post false because it was factually inaccurate. As she usually is which is why she lost her sponsors.
But again...try discussing the topic and not the posters...just a tip.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
I'd settle for an explanation for why not so long ago Dems wanted a wall and Repubs were against one, and what ulterior motives cause each to flip flop.
adonis
Footballguy
I almost think Shumer/Pelosi should have cancelled their rebuttal - Trump didn't win any points. He thinks he had his finger on the pulse and he's an idiot.
Not to reg on age but I think a better rebuttal would have been somebody younger talking about the wall being a 1950 solution to a 2018 challenge. Then talk about the technology available and that drugs are coming through ports etc.
Not to reg on age but I think a better rebuttal would have been somebody younger talking about the wall being a 1950 solution to a 2018 challenge. Then talk about the technology available and that drugs are coming through ports etc.
What you said about the topic was false and lacking any sort of evidence. That's about the topic.
Banger
Footballguy
Shula-holic
Footballguy
Votes and identity politics on one side. Greed and cheap labor turned to the realization they won't be getting those people as voters on the other.
adonis
Footballguy
Oh please, Trump caves within a week.
Gets funding for increased border security, points to this televised speech as a turning point in negotiations, calls it a capitulation from the Dems, somehow figures a way to say the Meicans paid for the border security "wall", and calls it a win. Fox News touts it as a win, as a sign of his strong leadership, and everyone goes on as they have been.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I think you need to recall that Trump really set this up when the Senate passed the first bill. Republicans unanimously voted for a bill with no new barrier money. As the GOP House was within hours of approving that *Republican bill Trump called an emergency.
Then he went into rhetoric describing the fencing as a ‘wall’ and describing immigrants as terrorists.
I think a good politician who had just won on an immigration/border platform could have gotten a bill with new fencing, fencing repair, and additional security dollars from his own party.
Trump miscommunicates and he unnecessarily antagonizes people. And he’s put his own party at risk because of this, if/when this wall doesn’t happen - which it won’t because it can’t - it will be not just him but GOP Congressmen who will be facing the ire of the base, and many will be losing elections because of it.
squistion
Footballguy
Reuters/Ipsos poll
• 51% blame Trump for the shutdown
• 32% blame Democrats
• 7% blame Republicans
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shutdown-poll/a-growing-number-of-americans-blame-trump-for-shutdown-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKCN1P223U
• 51% blame Trump for the shutdown
• 32% blame Democrats
• 7% blame Republicans
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shutdown-poll/a-growing-number-of-americans-blame-trump-for-shutdown-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKCN1P223U
The General
Footballguy
Can we start with the basics. What is it that Trump actually wants? In the past couple weeks alone it's been: A concrete wall, a steel slat wall, see-through steel wall, paid for by Mexico already, paid for in the future by savings in the "drug wars" (that was a new one tonight I think), that we already have a wall, and on and on.
Oh and If anyone buys that 5 billion would cover this, well
Oh and If anyone buys that 5 billion would cover this, well
Henry Ford
Footballguy
The Democrats didn’t have the House and momentum then. They do now. You don’t lose leverage and get the same deal.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
That's a pretty good summary and what I believe (know) as well. I threw it out their expecting someone to rehash their chosen party's talking points so it was refreshing to read something truthful.
adonis
Footballguy
Trump wants to come out of negotiations with something he can present to his base as a wall, that is paid for by Mexico, so he can win. That's it. He'll also want to blame democrats for it not being better, but that's baked in.Can we start with the basics. What is it that Trump actually wants? In the past couple weeks alone it's been: A concrete wall, a steel slat wall, see-through steel wall, paid for by Mexico already, paid for in the future by savings in the "drug wars" (that was a new one tonight I think), that we already have a wall, and on and on.
Oh and If anyone buys that 5 billion would cover this, well
The General
Footballguy
Shula-holic
Footballguy
We all know these never change. I think Trump getting Pelosi and Schumer to appear on television and address this is exactly what he wanted. I don't disagree that this poll is where we are today, but by getting them up there on all the major networks he's going to drag them into it. The average voter is pretty unsophisticated. All they've seen is Trump's picture and snippets about this, until now.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
That’s a NATIONAL opinion poll. It can’t be trusted. Poll nothing but people in rural America and get back to me with the numbers.
-SteelyCat Esq.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
. And democrats won't fund ANY wall or they lose. Even though there are places it's probably needed and they could easily compromise and get a comprehensive better boarder security package that everyone wants.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
joffer
Footballguy
He wants to stand in front of a crowd and hear them applause loudly. That’s it.Can we start with the basics. What is it that Trump actually wants? In the past couple weeks alone it's been: A concrete wall, a steel slat wall, see-through steel wall, paid for by Mexico already, paid for in the future by savings in the "drug wars" (that was a new one tonight I think), that we already have a wall, and on and on.
Oh and If anyone buys that 5 billion would cover this, well
adonis
Footballguy
2359013-d chess!
Trump has this whole thing working exactly the way he wants it to. He and Q will uncover the deep state, the pedophile ring, rich's killers, and put hillary and Mueller, and the gang of angry democrtas, and the media, and the rest of the world in jail! All according to plan. Just how he wants it. No chaos. Well oiled machine. No collusion. Nobody knows more about any given subject than Trump does.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I don't think they necessarily needed to do anything but hold serve, and I think they did that, barely. I too would have preferred more substance on how a wall is not worth the expense, that the amount being sought is only a fraction of the entire cost, and that Trump is right about a humanitarian crisis - that he's created. I also thought to myself I'm sure McConnell breathed a sigh of relief that his name didn't come up in rebuttal. His role in the ongoing shut down is huge since there is no possibility of a veto proof bill, and he was not mentioned (unless I missed it). The only path out of this that I can visualize is the Senate taking a bullet for Trump, and there is no reason for McConnell to lose any sleep after tonight.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
It's crossed my mind, what if he decides he isn't going to run and just basically says the hell with it, I know if I hold this line I'll be a hero to my side and my speaking fees, books, royalties, etc. will be higher than anyone in history's. Then barring a veto proof bill, he could just decide he's holding out. Unlikely scenario but nothing is beyond the realm of possibility given some of what we've seen in recent times.
The General
Footballguy
adonis
Footballguy
Rebuttals to these things are like being on the cover of Madden. Seems great at first, but there's a curse that goes with it. Pelosi/Shumer did the others a favor and took an arrow on this one. Had to rebut Trump - can't concede that kind of airtime uncontested, but they didn't sacrifice any of the next-gen folks to the increase scrutiny of this stilted situation. No one comes off looking good.
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
No, they are off the hook as almost 60% blame Truck and the GOP. Only the 32% base who would support Trump if he shot someone on 5th Avenue would point the finger at the Democrats.
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squistion
Footballguy
Which is why he was so flat and boring in his presentation tonight. He had no audience feed back to fuel him.
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Mile High
Footballguy
adonis
Footballguy
@Truckasaurus is behind this? Figures.
No, they are off the hook as almost 60% blame Truck and the GOP. Only the 32% base who would support Trump if he shot someone on 5th Avenue would point the finger as the Democrats.
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