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Why are President Trump's Tax Returns Important? (2 Viewers)

TheCommish said:
Yeah, it's happened before.  People don't pay attention to who they are linking.  What a dope.
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Whoa, I had no idea! In my defense, the only way to tell if you have the right person as you're typing is if you recognize the little icon that pops up. My apologies to @TheCommish as well as @The Commish! It won't happen again. (Well, at least not with you guys. I'll probably screw it up with two other similarly named accounts).

 
zftcg said:
Whoa, I had no idea! In my defense, the only way to tell if you have the right person as you're typing is if you recognize the little icon that pops up. My apologies to @TheCommish as well as @The Commish! It won't happen again. (Well, at least not with you guys. I'll probably screw it up with two other similarly named accounts).
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:lmao:   No worries...at least from me  ;)  

 
The Commish said:
:lmao:   Touche......I am hoping he begins posting here more frequently...it will seriously #### this place up!!!!!
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It would be the greatest source of political-related confusion since multiple Robert Caseys ran for statewide office in PA in the '70s:

Restricted from seeking another term as Auditor General of Pennsylvania, Casey declined to seek the office of Pennsylvania Treasurer in 1976. Instead, a county official who was also named Robert Casey won the Democratic primary and the general election, spending virtually no money and doing virtually no campaigning; voters merely assumed they were voting for the outgoing Auditor General. In 1980 the Republicans launched an extensive advertising campaign to clarify that "Casey isn't Casey," and the Democratic state treasurer was defeated for re-election, losing to R. Budd Dwyer.

In 1978, yet another candidate named Robert P. "Bob" Casey, a different Robert Casey, this one a teacher and ice cream parlor owner, likewise received the Democratic party's nomination for Lieutenant Governor, again with a no-spending, no-campaigning strategy. This Casey, who joined Democratic gubernatorial nominee Pete Flaherty, narrowly lost to Richard Thornburgh and William Scranton III.
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The Commish said:
:lmao:   Touche......I am hoping he begins posting here more frequently...it will seriously #### this place up!!!!!
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Funny thing is I was just congratulating myself on being able to distinguish you and @NCCommish. 

New goal: Avoid mixing up @stlrams (who I think leans right) and the guy with a Rams helmet as his logo (who leans left; I think it's @dkp993?) There've been a couple times where I did a double take because the answer wasn't what I was expecting, only to realize I was thinking of the other one. I've seen other posters make the same mistake, so at least I know it's not just me.

OK, back on topic and no more tagging people, I promise! I just realized this entire digression was the result of a dopey joke I made about a secret liberal cabal.

 
zftcg said:
Funny thing is I was just congratulating myself on being able to distinguish you and @NCCommish. 

New goal: Avoid mixing up @stlrams (who I think leans right) and the guy with a Rams helmet as his logo (who leans left; I think it's @dkp993?) There've been a couple times where I did a double take because the answer wasn't what I was expecting, only to realize I was thinking of the other one. I've seen other posters make the same mistake, so at least I know it's not just me.

OK, back on topic and no more tagging people, I promise! I just realized this entire digression was the result of a dopey joke I made about a secret liberal cabal.
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Well, it's no real "secret" if you keep talking about it!!!!!!

 
tank said:
The Democrats can't beat Trump the normal way, so they have to find "anything" to try to derail him getting his second term.
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So there is something in his tax returns that would derail his campaign ?  Seems like a good case for them legally being disclosed.

 
Sheriff Bart said:
Before Trump if there was a thread started "Why are President ("X" no party affiliation) tax returns important" there would only be about 15 replies because everyone would that it's a dumb question. 
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Seriously, NOBODY would say "oh candidate/president x doesn't want to show their tax returns? No problem, nothing at all fishy about that."

 
tank said:
The Democrats can't beat Trump the normal way, so they have to find "anything" to try to derail him getting his second term.
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Just to be clear, Democrats aren't investigating Trump. Congress is investigating Trump. Just because Republicans in Congress aren't supporting the effort, doesn't mean that it's just "the Democrats" investigating him.  This is one of the purposes of Congress, and they took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. 

 
timschochet said:
To me they’re only important because he refuses to show them- first President in almost 50 years to refuse. That makes me curious. 
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This is the only reason for it. 

We probably would see how Trump uses the tax code to his advantage, and that he probably doesn't pay that much in taxes (as a percentage of income).  Trump probably wants to hide that.  His tax returns are probably much more complicated that any other President's tax returns.

Personally, Trump should release at least part of it, and show what he actually pays in taxes, and what his taxable income is per year.

 
Sheriff Bart said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
My position is clear, I just don’t think yours flushed out. But it’s clearer now.

I just think it helps. You obviously support the IRS commissioner obeying the law. If Trump doesn’t get a court order then presumably the commissioner must provide the returns. I’d agree with that. He’s missed one deadline but he must respond by the 23rd or he’s breaking the law, and again you appear to oppose that. You and I would apparently agree on that.
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Prediction, Trump doesn't get a court order. The 23rd arrives and Trump’s taxes aren't turned over and nothing happens because nothing matters anymore. 
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Not exactly right as Trump has sued to prevent turning over his taxes which is terrifying to him for some reason.

 
Sheriff Bart said:
Not exactly right as Trump has sued to prevent turning over his taxes which is terrifying to him for some reason.
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Actually he's sued to prevent his financial firm from turning over his financial records.  The IRS is just refusing to turn over his tax records, IIRC, even though there's no legal standing for them to do so. Today is the deadline that was set by Congress and so far nothing.  

 
fightingillini said:
This is the only reason for it. 

We probably would see how Trump uses the tax code to his advantage, and that he probably doesn't pay that much in taxes (as a percentage of income).  Trump probably wants to hide that.  His tax returns are probably much more complicated that any other President's tax returns.

Personally, Trump should release at least part of it, and show what he actually pays in taxes, and what his taxable income is per year.
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It's more than that.  He could also be laundering money (as has been alleged), fraudulently over valuing his assets (as has been alleged), fraudulently under valuing different or even the same assets (as has been alleged), failing to report income (ahba) or have income that is difficult to explain, like a bunch of foreign income from countries where he'd made friendly rulings recently (ahba). It probably won't be a personal check made out to cohen with a memo saying for that porn star hush money, but remember that he actually did pay for that with a personal check,  according to cohen.  The fact he's going out of his way to avoid making them public is only mildly suspicious - he allegedly had cohen threaten people not to release his SATs. It's entirely possible that he doesn't want people to know how little money he really has, or find out about certain failing businesses, or that he told his accountant that the J in Donald J Trump stands for Genius. 

 
bostonfred said:
Sheriff Bart said:
Not exactly right as Trump has sued to prevent turning over his taxes which is terrifying to him for some reason.
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Actually he's sued to prevent his financial firm from turning over his financial records.  The IRS is just refusing to turn over his tax records, IIRC, even though there's no legal standing for them to do so. Today is the deadline that was set by Congress and so far nothing.  
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The IRS piece is really odd. Has anything changed here. What I recall is that Mnuchin - who isn't supposed to have any role in this - spoke for the IRS commish and said that Treasury legal was looking it. - Since then, nothing? Maybe tomorrow's the day if the 23rd was the deadline.

I mean, they gotta say something.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
The IRS piece is really odd. Has anything changed here. What I recall is that Mnuchin - who isn't supposed to have any role in this - spoke for the IRS commish and said that Treasury legal was looking it. - Since then, nothing? Maybe tomorrow's the day if the 23rd was the deadline.

I mean, they gotta say something.
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Like I posted on 4/14 "The 23rd arrives and Trump’s taxes aren't turned over and nothing happens because nothing matters anymore." 

 
Sheriff Bart said:
Like I posted on 4/14 "The 23rd arrives and Trump’s taxes aren't turned over and nothing happens because nothing matters anymore." 
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-tax-mnuchin/mnuchin-says-he-cannot-meet-deadline-to-turn-over-trump-tax-returns-to-house-panel-idUSKCN1RZ2FX

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said on Tuesday he cannot comply with a demand by a House of Representatives committee to turn over President Donald Trump’s tax returns “until it is determined to be consistent with law.”

In a letter to House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Richard Neal, Mnuchin said he expected to have an answer to the committee’s demand by May 6 after consulting with the Justice Department. The committee had set a 5 p.m. EDT (2100 GMT) Tuesday deadline for the Internal Revenue Service to turn over Trump’s returns.

 
bostonfred said:
In a letter to House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Richard Neal, Mnuchin said he expected to have an answer to the committee’s demand by May 6 after consulting with the Justice Department. The committee had set a 5 p.m. EDT (2100 GMT) Tuesday deadline for the Internal Revenue Service to turn over Trump’s returns.
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Aside from slow rolling everything this seems like some sort of procedural jockeying because whoever sues is going to look like the impatient bad guy, and they also don't want to show their hand.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
bostonfred said:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-tax-mnuchin/mnuchin-says-he-cannot-meet-deadline-to-turn-over-trump-tax-returns-to-house-panel-idUSKCN1RZ2FX

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said on Tuesday he cannot comply with a demand by a House of Representatives committee to turn over President Donald Trump’s tax returns “until it is determined to be consistent with law.”

In a letter to House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Richard Neal, Mnuchin said he expected to have an answer to the committee’s demand by May 6 after consulting with the Justice Department. The committee had set a 5 p.m. EDT (2100 GMT) Tuesday deadline for the Internal Revenue Service to turn over Trump’s returns.
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What a joke. 

 
I know it's been asked dozens of times why people think it's important for Trump to disclose his tax returns but has anyone ever asked others why they don't think it's important?

 
bostonfred said:
It's more than that.  He could also be laundering money (as has been alleged), fraudulently over valuing his assets (as has been alleged), fraudulently under valuing different or even the same assets (as has been alleged), failing to report income (ahba) or have income that is difficult to explain, like a bunch of foreign income from countries where he'd made friendly rulings recently (ahba). It probably won't be a personal check made out to cohen with a memo saying for that porn star hush money, but remember that he actually did pay for that with a personal check,  according to cohen.  The fact he's going out of his way to avoid making them public is only mildly suspicious - he allegedly had cohen threaten people not to release his SATs. It's entirely possible that he doesn't want people to know how little money he really has, or find out about certain failing businesses, or that he told his accountant that the J in Donald J Trump stands for Genius. 
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That's fair.  I definitely would like to see how Trump uses the bankruptcy laws to his advantage.  While I am not convinced that Trump did anything illegal (doesn't the IRS audit him every year?), it is definitely suspicious that he hasn't released his tax returns.

 
fightingillini said:
That's fair.  I definitely would like to see how Trump uses the bankruptcy laws to his advantage.  While I am not convinced that Trump did anything illegal (doesn't the IRS audit him every year?), it is definitely suspicious that he hasn't released his tax returns.
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There are serious allegations of crimes that would not necessarily be uncovered in an IRS audit, but would require financial records.  Congress is investigating because that's their job.  The IRS is refusing because.. something. 

https://youtu.be/4zmgQDRU6v4

Start around 57 seconds into it - there's a lot of allegations made by cohen about tax schemes, under valuing assets, tax fraud, etc.  

 
bostonfred said:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-tax-mnuchin/mnuchin-says-he-cannot-meet-deadline-to-turn-over-trump-tax-returns-to-house-panel-idUSKCN1RZ2FX

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said on Tuesday he cannot comply with a demand by a House of Representatives committee to turn over President Donald Trump’s tax returns “until it is determined to be consistent with law.”

In a letter to House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Richard Neal, Mnuchin said he expected to have an answer to the committee’s demand by May 6 after consulting with the Justice Department. The committee had set a 5 p.m. EDT (2100 GMT) Tuesday deadline for the Internal Revenue Service to turn over Trump’s returns.
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"In a letter to Congress, President Trump said he cannot comply with their impeachment of him until it is determined to be consistent with law"

 
The beauty of these tax returns - if Trump sold all the businesses he runs himself, and just kept the investment income from the businesses that other people manage - he actually would be quite successful.  

 
beef said:
Damn man.  I paid in too, but not at a level of $21 an hour.  
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Tell me all about it I-friend. Imagine cutting a check for $7600 a couple months back, that’s after the $36K withholding, and then hearing about this.

I drive a 2011 Pilot with 92,000 miles on it. Wife and I have each been working for 25+ years and haven’t taken a vacation in 5 years. I guess I’m just a loser and a sucker though. Sorry about making it so personal about me, but this time it’s just too flipping far and I suspect I’m not alone.

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
Tell me all about it I-friend. Imagine cutting a check for $7600 a couple months back, that’s after the $36K withholding, and then hearing about this.

I drive a 2011 Pilot with 92,000 miles on it. Wife and I have each been working for 25+ years and haven’t taken a vacation in 5 years. I guess I’m just a loser and a sucker though. Sorry about making it so personal about me, but this time it’s just too flipping far and I suspect I’m not alone.
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Why? 

 
AAABatteries said:
Why? 
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Working hard for my daughter: sold 3 houses, purchased 2 to get her in the best school district we could, summer camp, dance, extra math lessons, we ran our own small camp during the pandemic summer. Also I’m sure we could have, and I could also drive a more expensive car. But it’s not about me anymore, it’s all for her.

And to know that the level of personal responsibility we all have to take on as Americans for healthcare, for retirement security, and to do everything we can for our families, and to see this silver spoon inheritance baby steal from America and have his children live a yacht and private jet lifestyle makes me sick and I doubt I’m alone in that. 

 
One thing that might be important:

Trump has $420M worth of loans that come due during what would be his second term.

I think it might be important to understand who those lenders are, and whether they are getting favorable treatment from the President or other government entities.

 
I think there's a word for presenting yourself as President based to no small extent on your financial success and prowess, while in reality you're worthless and not really good at any of it. I think the word is ... fraud?

 
Sinn Fein said:
The beauty of these tax returns - if Trump sold all the businesses he runs himself, and just kept the investment income from the businesses that other people manage - he actually would be quite successful.  
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If he had invested his inheritance in an index fund and paid normal taxes he’d be way ahead of where he is today after all his genius dealmaking. 
 

 
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