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RB D’Andre Swift, DET


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On 7/8/2021 at 9:16 AM, BobbyLayne said:

🙄 :bag:

Oops, sorry, thanks for letting me know!

It is information and there is no expiration date

Nitpicking at its finest.

On the first play Matt may have a point that Swift should try to secure the ball more quickly so he has a chance to make a move on Eric Wilson.

Wilson is hybrid safety LB and very good in pass coverage. I would go as far as to say he is a better all around LB than Anthony Barr is. He is a good player and him making this play on Swift is just one example of that.

On the pass protection rep I agree with Matt that Smith body positioning is awkward and he doesn't get enough leverage for his block on 45. However Matt does notice that Swift is reacting to the other defender who might be coming through as well and what Swift does do is get a price of that defender while disrupting 45 at the same time. Matt calls it luck that Swift ends up blocking that 2nd defender out of the play. I dont think it was luck, Swift was trying to do that. He timed it so he could try to block 45 into 33.

As far as Swift giving tells when running routes yes I see that and he has a lot of work to do to become a better receiving option than he already is. While we have been talking about Swift for many years now lets remember he was only a rookie. These finer points are things that almost all of them need to improve on.

 

Edited by Biabreakable
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@Biabreakable I like listening to film guys like Waldman and Brett Holman (Film Room, Bootleg Football), they pick up on subtle nuisances. Holman does a really great job explaining leverage as it relates to setting up a defender, I’ve learned a lot about what getting a good release and subtle ways to sell a route. Another guy I’ve enjoyed watching a lot this off-season is J.T. O’Sullivan. Lousy QB but he picked up a lot playing for 8 (?) teams. He’s got some amazing series on YouTube rn explaining different offenses, defensive schemes, and what coaches do to create advantages, how QBs read defenses - terrific stuff. Dan Orlovsky is another insightful resource, though unfortunately he drifts into being inciteful sometimes lol.

But what static film analysis misses is player development. Listening to film room guys caused me to miss on DK Metcalf bc he was such a poor route runner. Conversely, film room gurus have had me owning way too many shares of Gordon and Mixon.

Film room guys tend to bet on talent. They’ll do predraft rankings before they know landing spots or fits. They’ll go right on pimping the guys they love on film who are in terrible situations, and keep pumping the more talented player over a less talented player who is a good fit and is actually seeing usage. It’s been a hard lesson to practice discernment, take in what I’ve learned, and not let it unduly influence how I feel about a player.

Listen, I learned about tipping pitches in year 4 (age 12) of my 9 year amateur baseball career. Do we think Deuce Staley & Co have not picked up on Swift telegraphing routes? Is there a chance he gets coached up and drops these bad habits? I mean, the Lions assistant coaches are mostly recent ex-NFL players (way more than most staffs.) They are spending a ton of time teaching players - something that was a rarity in the Patricia era.

Swift is a special player and I think Staley is really pushing him this off-season. In OTAs and mini-camp they have been praising Jamaal and riding D’Andre. It’s possible I’m reading the situation wrong but I think 1) they’re trying to motivate the 2nd year back, and 2) they’re trying to develop his game. They’re not especially keen to play an average back making backup money. But he (Williams) has some refined skills in pass pro and receiving, and the message is pretty clear: if you (Swift) want to be the man, it takes more than just being fast and having some twitch. You have to keep improving, in all aspects.

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On 7/10/2021 at 7:39 AM, BobbyLayne said:

@Biabreakable I like listening to film guys like Waldman and Brett Holman (Film Room, Bootleg Football), they pick up on subtle nuisances. Holman does a really great job explaining leverage as it relates to setting up a defender, I’ve learned a lot about what getting a good release and subtle ways to sell a route. Another guy I’ve enjoyed watching a lot this off-season is J.T. O’Sullivan. Lousy QB but he picked up a lot playing for 8 (?) teams. He’s got some amazing series on YouTube rn explaining different offenses, defensive schemes, and what coaches do to create advantages, how QBs read defenses - terrific stuff. Dan Orlovsky is another insightful resource, though unfortunately he drifts into being inciteful sometimes lol.

But what static film analysis misses is player development. Listening to film room guys caused me to miss on DK Metcalf bc he was such a poor route runner. Conversely, film room gurus have had me owning way too many shares of Gordon and Mixon.

Film room guys tend to bet on talent. They’ll do predraft rankings before they know landing spots or fits. They’ll go right on pimping the guys they love on film who are in terrible situations, and keep pumping the more talented player over a less talented player who is a good fit and is actually seeing usage. It’s been a hard lesson to practice discernment, take in what I’ve learned, and not let it unduly influence how I feel about a player.

Listen, I learned about tipping pitches in year 4 (age 12) of my 9 year amateur baseball career. Do we think Deuce Staley & Co have not picked up on Swift telegraphing routes? Is there a chance he gets coached up and drops these bad habits? I mean, the Lions assistant coaches are mostly recent ex-NFL players (way more than most staffs.) They are spending a ton of time teaching players - something that was a rarity in the Patricia era.

Swift is a special player and I think Staley is really pushing him this off-season. In OTAs and mini-camp they have been praising Jamaal and riding D’Andre. It’s possible I’m reading the situation wrong but I think 1) they’re trying to motivate the 2nd year back, and 2) they’re trying to develop his game. They’re not especially keen to play an average back making backup money. But he (Williams) has some refined skills in pass pro and receiving, and the message is pretty clear: if you (Swift) want to be the man, it takes more than just being fast and having some twitch. You have to keep improving, in all aspects.

Yeah I totally agree that Swift needs to do a better job of not looking where he plans to go before doing so. Matt showed a few reps of him doing this. It makes it much easier to cover him because of that.

The one play where the defender gets turned around I think he assumed that Swift was trying to fool him and was going to break outside. Defender faked himself out there just assuming Swift would fake his intentions.

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  • 2 weeks later...
8 hours ago, Mister CIA said:

25 Touches per Game

I'm taking the under.

 

8 hours ago, King of the Jungle said:

Jamaal is a good back and if the Lion’s are smart they won’t burnout Swift this year. 

Headline notwithstanding, the blurb correctly points out a) that’s obvious hyperbole from Deuce Staley (a running theme this offseason btw), and b) Swift gets a ton of high value touches (receiving & GL carries.)

GL carries in 2020:

  • ADP 12-8 5 TDs (no longer w/ Det but was GL back for Patricia)
  • Swift 8-13 6 TDs
  • Jamaal 5-(-1) 1 TD

I've been repeating it ad nauseam (& the GL stats might be a Honda as well) but Williams def has a 2020 role. Should see 40-45% of the carries in between the 20s and catch 30-35 balls. Would love to see it bc it will keep D’Andre fresh t do what he does best (which no other RB on the roster can as well.)  Jamaal is very good in pass pro and has already established his presence in the locker room as a veteran leader on his new team. Good dude and excellent signing.

FBGs paid subscriber content has him higher than most, low end RB1. Mike Clay has this split:

SWIFT 188-811-6 84 targets 66-495-2

WILLIAMS 134-558-3 42 targets 34-249-1

Swift averaged 5.5 YPT last year with 46 catches (57 targets), 878 YFS and 10 R/R TDs - all of those stats far exceed JW 2017-20 YPT & totals - while playing 38.05% of the snaps. He’ll likely be marginally less efficient this year but absolutely should see 250-275 touches if he stays healthy.

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11 hours ago, King of the Jungle said:

Jamaal is a good back and if the Lion’s are smart they won’t burnout Swift this year. 

True but Swift should receive plenty of touches.  In PPR leagues, Swift should really shine.  

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Quote

D'Andre Swift 'going to be the bellcow' in Lions offense

by Joshua Kellem | Lions Correspondent | Tue, Aug 3rd 10:03pm EDT

Detriot Lions RB D'Andre Swift

 is "going to be the bellcow," according to Albert Breer. (Albert Breer on Twitter) 

Fantasy Impact:

Breer added, "Having Jamaal Williams around has really helped the former second-rounder take another step forward. Williams is also bringing more than expected in the passing game, so he should carve out a nice role." Breer visited the team on his annual training camp tour Tuesday. 

Category: Rumors | More D'Andre Swift: News, Rankings, Projections, Stats Was this helpful? 

 

To the bolded:

  1. None. It’s a guy, who has an opinion. The successor to Peter King at Monday Morning Quarterback has zero impact on FF. Ditto for any bear writer, correspondent, self-anointed expert.
  2. Appreciate the honest with 5he tag
  3. Nope 
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5 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

To the bolded:

  1. None. It’s a guy, who has an opinion. The successor to Peter King at Monday Morning Quarterback has zero impact on FF. Ditto for any bear writer, correspondent, self-anointed expert.
  2. Appreciate the honest with 5he tag
  3. Nope 

Says Swift is going to be the bell cow, then says Jamaal is going to have a nice role lol 🤔

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Faust changed the title to Dynasty & Redraft: Lions RB D’Andre Swift - slowed by sore groin, expected to return to practice on 08.17.21

August 23:

Quote

Chris Burke @ChrisBurkeNFL

2. D'Andre Swift seemed to be moving well (albeit, again, in a very light and short practice). He had a couple of catches during 1-on-1s, including a nice TD route to the back corner vs. Jamie Collins. Like Hockenson, he looks on track to be ready for Week 1.


https://twitter.com/chrisburkenfl/status/1429883574908489736?s=21

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  • Faust changed the title to Dynasty & Redraft: Lions RB D’Andre Swift - 08.24.21 - Dan Campbell said he's concerned about Swift's availability for Week 1
22 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

Ugh can we get to week 1 already?


the actual Dan Campbell quote:

”I’m concerned about Swift being football ready for Week 1. We don't know if he's gonna be there."

the question:

”with the amount of time D’Andre missed in training camp, where do you think the is at in terms of conditioning?“

______________

People are losing their minds on Twitter and Reddit. Everyone running the story and no one is publishing the quote.

19 days until opening kickoff. I’m watching a live feed of the Lions practice rn and Swift is bouncing around like a deer. 

:shrug:

Edited by BobbyLayne
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“Swift concerns me a little bit, just with getting his wind back and being able to take a load,” head coach Dan Campbell said before practice on Tuesday. “How much can he (do)?”

 

I could be off base, but to my ears DC was saying he’s got some concern bc his #1 RB hasn’t taken a lot of reps this summer and he (Swift) expressed concern about being sore - even though he’s had a pretty light workload in camp and hasn’t played in the preseason. The HC isn’t totally sure his guy is ready to take on the role they envisioned for him.

I was watching a live show hosted by former Lion TJ Lang from Allen Park during lunch today. He appeared to be moving fine, but it was just light running drills - not full pad, full contact work. 

But if MCDC, Anthony Lynn (OC), & Deice Staley (RB & Assistant HC) are still voicing doubts next week then, Jamaal probably has some short term upside value to start the year. Last year Swift had a nagging hip injury to start the year and was eased into the workload. That would be disappointing both for FF and as a fan, but it’s withiin the range of outcomes.

Most redrafts are going down over the next 5-10 days and it’s hard to justify a late third / early fourth on him. Logically this should be a breakout jump year for him, but it’s not exactly green light city over there.

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Cut and run: Lions head coach Dan Campbell said Tuesday he was concerned about running back D'Andre Swift getting his wind back and being able to carry a big load Week 1 with how much time he's missed in camp due to a groin injury.

Something tells me Swift will be just fine with three weeks to go before the opener. He took a handoff from quarterback Jared Goff early in practice, made a ridiculous jump cut to make a defender miss, and hit a hole and put the jets on for a long run. 

– Tim Twentyman

 

August 24 practice observations

_______________

No, seriously fellas, I’m not worried at all.

:oldunsure:

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MCDC was just lighting a torch under Swift's butt IMHO to get more practice reps in.  It appeared to work.

In betting news, the Lions are underdogs in every game this season, but on the flip side are the most heavily bet team to make the playoffs.  They were +850, but now down to +620.  

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Yikes.

 

I wanted Swift everywhere in redraft as my "upside RB3".

Now its sounding like a complete avoid and focusing on the much cheaper Williams.

 

 

 

 (in my whisper voice) <that said, I'll still own shares of him somewhere I'm sure, in one of my 4-5 redraft leagues> LOL.

 

 :wall:

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3 hours ago, TZMarkie said:

Yikes.

 

I wanted Swift everywhere in redraft as my "upside RB3".

Now its sounding like a complete avoid and focusing on the much cheaper Williams.

 

 

 

 (in my whisper voice) <that said, I'll still own shares of him somewhere I'm sure, in one of my 4-5 redraft leagues> LOL.

 

 :wall:

 

You panic too much.  Swift is healthy and a stud.  Williams is just a good bye week filler and safety net for Swift owners. 

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1 hour ago, joffer said:

lookin for news…

I can’t find anything official but I read somewhere that last week at practice he was running, cutting, etc on the sidelines. It’s hard to tell how much of this has been being super careful with their offensive centerpiece and how much is a legit problem. I do feel confident saying he’s the guy that Dan Campbell envisions the offense flowing through. I don’t even mean that in a run the ball, kneecap biting kind of way. I mean in his first presser, Swift was about the only player I remember him mentioning by name and it was how he’s an offensive weapon who can run routes, go into the slot and destroy LBs in the passing game. I think he envisions Swift as his  Kamara.

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13 minutes ago, Kingpin90 said:

I am getting cold feet with Deandre Swift. Seems like his hype is exceeding the possible production at this point.

The Lions are going to be really bad and that can lead to dumpoffs but a bad offense is a bad offense. If I'm a defensive coordinator, I'm stacking the box against Detroit and making Goff beat me.

 

Combine that with those injury concerns. Feels like a sell high to someone with rose tinted glasses. No knock on the talent, it just feels like I've seen this type of thing play out before. 

What hype? Most of the posts in here are negative and he’s going in Round 3.

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8 minutes ago, Kingpin90 said:

 

Round 3 is much too steep for him. He's currently the 18th RB off the board meaning people are taking him expecting RB2 production.

That's a lot of hype for a guy who didn't eclipse 550 yards last season and significantly downgraded at Quarterback.

 

I get that he's going to catch a ton of passes. He better catch a ####### lot of them because this offense will rank bottom 10 in converting first downs.

 

Here's a short list of guys currently getting drafted ahead of him in much better offenses and/or superior talents:

Josh Jacobs, Miles Sanders, Javonte Williams, Darrell Henderson, Kareem Hunt, Damien Harris

 

First year head coach, downgrade at Quarterback, undersized, and already injured in a dog #### offense who has never produced at a high level is not somebody I am willing to burn a 3rd round pick for.

 

You're paying for the talent but RB is the one position that is really at the mercy of the rest of the offense. He has an incredibly low floor and that's not something I want out of my RB2.

re the bolded:

Is he undersized? 5’9 212 would seem a pretty stout BMI. Did you mean short? 
 

The notion that team success is necessary for Rb production has been disproven several times on this board. I remember specifically in the Gibson thread.

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1 hour ago, Cobbler1 said:

re the bolded:

Is he undersized? 5’9 212 would seem a pretty stout BMI. Did you mean short? 
 

The notion that team success is necessary for Rb production has been disproven several times on this board. I remember specifically in the Gibson thread.

There’s a lot of misinformation in that post.

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Here's a short list of guys currently getting drafted ahead of him in much better offenses and/or superior talents:

Josh Jacobs, Miles Sanders, Javonte Williams, Darrell Henderson, Kareem Hunt, Damien Harris

 

Denver and Philly?

 

Quote

You're paying for the talent but RB is the one position that is really at the mercy of the rest of the offense. He has an incredibly low floor and that's not something I want out of my RB2.

 

3 of the bottom 7 ranked offenses last year had fantasy RB1's (Montgomery, JRob, Gibson).  Had Mixon and Saquon stayed healthy it probably would have been 5 of the bottom 7 ranked offenses with a fantasy RB1 or near that.

 

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If you want first round production  from a guy you can pick up late third round, it would be a good idea to pick this guy.  The points against him are weak.  Of course like all players he has to stay healthy, but this guy is an RB1 and an absolute steal anywhere in round 3.  

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1 hour ago, jon_mx said:

If you want first round production  from a guy you can pick up late third round, it would be a good idea to pick this guy.  The points against him are weak.  Of course like all players he has to stay healthy, but this guy is an RB1 and an absolute steal anywhere in round 3.  

Got him in round 4 of a 12 team PPR league after going Zeke, Ridley and Waller. 

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On 9/2/2021 at 7:25 AM, Cobbler1 said:

The notion that team success is necessary for Rb production has been disproven several times on this board. I remember specifically in the Gibson thread.

Yup - it’s all about volume.

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3 hours ago, jon_mx said:

If you want first round production  from a guy you can pick up late third round, it would be a good idea to pick this guy.  The points against him are weak.  Of course like all players he has to stay healthy, but this guy is an RB1 and an absolute steal anywhere in round 3.  

Got him in round 5 in a local redraft last night. Was not a target of mine going in but had to grab the value. 

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On 9/3/2021 at 8:44 AM, BigJim® said:

Got him in round 5 in a local redraft last night. Was not a target of mine going in but had to grab the value. 

 

Exactly my thinking, was surprised he was still sitting there at 5.10. Had to grab him despite what Dan Campbell said about his uncertainty and it being Detroit. I think he was ranked ~RB19 in DraftDominator in my 12 team 2qb league.

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Zero interest in Swift at current ADP...might consider him in the 6th if he slides but that will never happen because all of the rankings have him going much earlier.

Even if he did stay healthy, which he wont, he's playing in what most would expect to be one of the worst offenses. 

One of the most overvalued players in this year's draft.

Edited by TripItUp
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  • Faust changed the title to RB D’Andre Swift, Lions - 08.24.21 - Dan Campbell said he's concerned about Swift's availability for Week 1

'He Looked Explosive': Lions Expect Swift to Become Offensive Weapon

Excerpt:

Quote

Detroit Lions head coach Dan Campbell raised some alarm bells when he told reporters that he was "concerned" about running back D'Andre Swift. 

The rationale made sense, at the time, since the second-year running back had missed a portion of training camp when the coaching staff was gathering crucial information. 

For a new coaching staff, understanding just how much a player can handle and tolerate is important for a team's initial preparations.

In the week before the season starts, Swift has impressed Detroit general manager Brad Holmes, who told reporters on Thursday what he expects from the ex-Georgia Bulldogs running back.

“I expect him to be a weapon. That’s what he is in both phases, run and pass," Holmes said. "I’m not trying to put a number on how many plays he’s going to play or how much time or all that. We’ll let that stuff play itself out. He’s had a good week of practice. He looked good out there today. He looked explosive. He’s got juice, and he showed that playmaking ability in practice. We’re really excited about him.”

 

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  • Faust changed the title to RB D’Andre Swift, Lions - 09.03.21 - GM Brad Holmes - 'He Looked Explosive'
1 hour ago, TripItUp said:

 

Perfect, let's keep that hype train going through the rest of my drafts.

 

He will be better than most the backs you drafted.  I get it, you think the Lions are going to suck, but you are going to be epicly wrong on Swift.  

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23 hours ago, jon_mx said:

 

He will be better than most the backs you drafted.  I get it, you think the Lions are going to suck, but you are going to be epicly wrong on Swift.  

 

Garbage time catches will be huge imo.

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23 hours ago, jon_mx said:

 

He will be better than most the backs you drafted.  I get it, you think the Lions are going to suck, but you are going to be epicly wrong on Swift.  

 

So he stays health this year?  Or is that the get out of jail free card for Swift backers?

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4 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

 

So he stays health this year?  Or is that the get out of jail free card for Swift backers?

The groin injury is a wildcard because we don't have much concrete on it but that's also giving people a discount on him. It is a risk but he has had a lot of time to recover.  By all accounts he will be ready to play week 1, just might take a week or 2 to get up to full speed. 

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to RB D’Andre Swift, DET

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