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Dynasty and Redraft: QB Tua Tagovailoa, Miami Dolphins

Long Ball Larry

By Long Ball Larry,
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Andy Dufresne

Wow. They give that analysis away for free?

Grahamburn

The Jets are so bad QBs are getting benched because they only beat them by 24.

Tool

But is he? Tua: I admit it. You are better than I am. Joe Burrow: Then why are you smiling? Tua: Because I know something you don't know. Joe Burrow: And what is that? Tua: I am not left-

Johnny Utah #9

Johnny Utah #9 328

Posted
Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

These guys will run thru a brick wall right now for Flores and if they won't he wouldn't keep them around for long. This team has been overhauled, there were guys I didn't even know were gone until we were a few weeks into the season. 

There's no tough sell here, you're talking about something that isn't actively happening. Nobody on that team is raising a stir, wouldn't surprise me if Fitz is the starting QB but Flores plays it like he might play Tua all week in the media. Why let the other team game plan for just 1 guy?

I'm asking you to give Flores some credit and the benefit of the doubt, if anyone's earned it from recent hires in the last year or two, I think he has.

As I stated earlier, I’ve been impressed with Flores so far and think he’s well on his way to being regarded as one of the better coaches in the league (if he’s not there already). And believe me, as a suffering Skins fan, I know all about how a toxic team culture can tear down a once proud franchise.

I still contend though that this is a comparing apples to oranges situation here. Ridding the team of malcontents to improve team culture is a lot different than this QB decision. I wouldn’t expect any dissension to get out of the locker room. Like you said, Flores runs a tight ship. But seeing how beloved Fitz is in that locker room (Gesicki’s comments, etc.), combined with the comments from Fitz of shock when the move was announced in the first place (his comments regarding shock at the decision, etc.), I wouldn’t be surprised if a decision to go back to Tua raises some eyebrows among the players. These guys want to win first and foremost. And in the NFL, if you see a window of opportunity, you best go through it, since you never know when it might slam shut.

Edited by Johnny Utah #9
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Ksquared

Ksquared 201

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Bottom line is you cannot determine what Tua's potential will be into the future on +/- 8 games this season.  So that argument makes no sense unless he jumps out at you immediately like Burrows and Herbert.  Tua may end up being better than either or he may end up being the worst QB in this draft class and not a franchise QB.  But you are making a big mistake if you feel that can be determined during this season.  It is not a big enough sample to allow growth by Tua in the areas he is struggling right now.  I know some have said he is not making his second read....many QBs will pick that up as they gain more experience and get used to the speed of the NFL.  Unfortunately some never do develop that critical skill for a QB to be a franchise QB.

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Jail

Jail 57

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1 hour ago, shadrap said:

I agree.

Is it really so hard to believe that they would have faith in the first coach to make their team relevant over a bunch random guys on the internet?

And if I'm not mistaken one of those fans is saying that he wants Fitz to start,  but that he thinks Flores will do the right thing for the team in the big picture. 

Edited by Jail
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rockaction

rockaction 24,844

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8 hours ago, Ksquared said:

 Tua may end up being better than either or he may end up being the worst QB in this draft class and not a franchise QB.

He is not going to be worse than the Jets' fourth-round pick, James Morgan.

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Desert_Power

Desert_Power 813

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11 hours ago, SoBeDad said:

Exactly. I'm not sure of the PFF grade, but by the eye test, Fitzpatrick has been playing great the last 16 or so games. He gets rid of the ball quickly, is accurate, avoids the rush, and makes gutsy runs for 1st downs. And per a Barry Jackson article, Gesicki and Parker are among the worst 5 for separation in the league. Fitzpatrick throws them open. Tua is used to Alabama-open WRs. But I need to see more of Tua before the 2021 draft, especially while under pressure. 

I think that they would be doing just as good with Tyrod personally. Tyrod and Fitz are almost polar opposites in terms of style. Fitz takes a lot of chances and he hasn't come up very poor recently, but it's still in him.

Miami was dominated on both lines in the Denver game, we shouldn't put too much credence on that always being the state.

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GreenNGold

GreenNGold 107

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Rodgers sat on the bench as a backup for 3 years before he started.  

The idea that Tua needs to be rushed into games this year or he won't develop is just wrong, playing him before he is ready could do more harm than good, perhaps even stunt his growth, and he could clearly use more time developing in practice right now. 

Edited by GreenNGold
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Sea Duck

Sea Duck 1,331

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7 hours ago, cloppbeast said:
8 hours ago, Jail said:

This thread reads like Fitz and Parker fantasy owners arguing with Dolphins fans. 

Question is why Dolphins fans want to play Tua. Makes no sense. 

It's human nature. We favor the unknown. We assume a certain value based on draft status, pedigree, and age. Tua is young and was drafted high from a bigtime college; therefore, he must be better than the 7th round journeyman from an FCS school.

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Faust

Faust 5,270

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Tua Tagovailoa (thumb) remained "limited" in Thursday's practice. 

Tagovailoa seems to be trending in the right direction for Sunday's game against the Bengals, though thumb issues are not the sort of thing quarterbacks can gut through. It is probably 50-50 whether Tagovailoa or Ryan Fitzpatrick gets the call, with competitive reasons also playing a part in the calculations. Coach Brian Flores has claimed he will not announce his starter until Sunday morning. It has the biggest effect on DeVante Parker, who has A-grade chemistry with Fitz. 

RELATED: 

Ryan Fitzpatrick

SOURCE: Cameron Wolfe on Twitter 

Dec 3, 2020, 2:49 PM ET

 

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Faust

Faust 5,270

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NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Dolphins QB Tua Tagovailoa (thumb, questionable) is expected to be active and start for Week 13 against the Bengals.

Tagovailoa returns after missing just one game with the thumb injury. Ryan Fitzpatrick's aggressive nature as a passer made the Miami offense more exciting for fantasy purposes but Tagovailoa's efficiency numbers all fall in line with Fitzpatrick's stats. Tagovailoa has also thrown six touchdowns passes to zero interceptions across his four starts. Mike Gesicki and DeVante Parker get slightly downgraded by the change but remain fantasy starters. Tagovailoa is nothing more than a QB2 this week.

SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

Dec 6, 2020, 8:21 AM ET

PREVIOUSNEXT

 

 

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SoBeDad

SoBeDad 2,291

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1 minute ago, Johnny Utah #9 said:

Strong start so far. 🙄

So are the Phins going to get serious here and put in Fitz in the 2nd half, or do they want to potentially drop another winnable game and hurt their playoff chances.

Good chance Fitzpatrick starts the 2nd half. 

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SoBeDad

SoBeDad 2,291

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27 minutes ago, Truebluey said:

He's winning, what more do you want?

Tua has made some good throws in the second half, especially the improvised pass to Gaskins. He needs to improve on the throws to Parker and Gesicki in the end zone. His play needs to improve if they want to beat the Chiefs. I think the Bengals have negative yardage in the 2nd half, that's also a big part of why they're winning.

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The Frankman

The Frankman 3,346

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Tua Tagovailoa completed 28-of-48 passes for 316 yards, two touchdowns, and an interception in the Dolphins' Week 14 33-27 loss to Kansas City, adding six rushes for 24 yards and a score. 

Tagovailoa consistently took what KC's defense would give him in a pass-heavy game script, eclipsing 300 yards without DeVante Parker -- who left the game in the first quarter -- and Jakeem Grant, who left after catching three passes. His six rushing attempts included a goal line sneak late in the game in Miami's furious comeback attempt. The rookie has 612 passing yards and three touchdowns through the air over his past two outings. His Week 15 matchup against New England isn't all that appealing, but he should be a mid-range QB2.

- Rotoworld

 

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Truebluey

Truebluey 485

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1 hour ago, The Frankman said:

Tua Tagovailoa completed 28-of-48 passes for 316 yards, two touchdowns, and an interception in the Dolphins' Week 14 33-27 loss to Kansas City, adding six rushes for 24 yards and a score. 

I'll be interested to see MOP's analysis.  On paper it looks good. Are we starting to get more confident that they've found their starting QB?

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Ministry of Pain

Ministry of Pain 5,561

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25 minutes ago, Truebluey said:

I'll be interested to see MOP's analysis.  On paper it looks good. Are we starting to get more confident that they've found their starting QB?

I'm going to reserve some judgement today since they have 3 Rookies on the OL, a rookie WR opposite Parker who left the game and then he got his TE who was starting to look more like a mini Kelce in Gesicki, he has thrown a lot of balls to him that have gotten him hurt while he was making 1 hand catches. 

But you add in Tua at QB and that is 5 out of 11 on offense that are Rookies...hard to really analyze it all right now. But Tua does seem to flounder in different parts of the game and fades when they need him to put a drive together. Miami squandered opportunities in the 1st Half and it cost them late in this football game. They also went from 10-0 to 28-10 and ere just run out of the building, they added a Safety and at 30-10 does it matter what Tua racked in garbage time? I don't know. Garbage Time almost turned into crunch time, the 33-27 score does not show how lopsided it was at times. 

Edited by Ministry of Pain
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ChiefD

ChiefD 19,236

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1 hour ago, Ministry of Pain said:

I'm going to reserve some judgement today since they have 3 Rookies on the OL, a rookie WR opposite Parker who left the game and then he got his TE who was starting to look more like a mini Kelce in Gesicki, he has thrown a lot of balls to him that have gotten him hurt while he was making 1 hand catches. 

But you add in Tua at QB and that is 5 out of 11 on offense that are Rookies...hard to really analyze it all right now. But Tua does seem to flounder in different parts of the game and fades when they need him to put a drive together. Miami squandered opportunities in the 1st Half and it cost them late in this football game. They also went from 10-0 to 28-10 and ere just run out of the building, they added a Safety and at 30-10 does it matter what Tua racked in garbage time? I don't know. Garbage Time almost turned into crunch time, the 33-27 score does not show how lopsided it was at times. 

Yeah. This game today was so weird that I’m not sure you can get any kind of read on Tua one way or the other.

He is a rookie. With no preseason. So with those parameters, I thought he looked fine. People expect these rookie QB’s to be ready on day one, but I see a guy who has progressed tremendously.

He folded under some pressure early in the game today. As the game went on, he recognized where the pressure was coming from and made all the right throws. And that’s the scary part with him. If he is learning that quickly within a game, he is going to be really, really good.

His accuracy was pretty damn good and his release was quick. My only concern is he looks like a statue back there right now. Not sure if that’s him or the play calling, but Miami needs to move him around some - because he can certainly throw on the move.

If he stays healthy, Miami is gonna be dangerous. Especially if they get him some weapons.

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Ministry of Pain

Ministry of Pain 5,561

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32 minutes ago, =Smackdown= said:

The Dolphins were also without their top 6 pass-catchers on the season who account for 74.6% of their total 2020 receiving yards.

No running game either.

The kid has nothing to work with - it was quite clear vs KC yesterday.

Your opinion hasn't changed since yesterday, I feel more like you this morning or today. 👍

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Faust

Faust 5,270

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Tua Tagovailoa completed 20-of-26 passes for 145 yards and an interception in the Dolphins' 22-12, Week 15 win over the Patriots, adding three carries for nine additional yards and two touchdowns. 

With the Dolphins' skill corps severely short-handed and Salvon Ahmed returning, Tagovailoa was a strict game manager, completing zero passes longer than 15 yards. His interception was a poor red zone decision in the first quarter where he forced the ball to Lynn Bowden in the end zone as he was getting hit. Tagovailoa compensated by avoiding further cough ups and contributing three- and one-yard rushing scores, displaying a nice little shoulder fake on the three-yarder. He's up to three rushing touchdowns over his past two games. With DeVante Parker and Mike Gesicki hopefully returning for Week 16 against the Raiders, Tagovailoa should have a little more QB2 juice for a plus matchup.  

Dec 20, 2020, 4:34 PM ET

 

 

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Doug B

Doug B 6,807

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On 12/2/2020 at 9:10 AM, tommyGunZ said:

I’m surprised by the Fitzpatrick love. Folks were saying the same thing about Tyrod Taylor/Justin Herbert in the pre-season.  Reality is many of the young QBs are ready to play earlier these days.  

@tommyGunZ , clear a little space in your message box, GB.

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Faust

Faust 5,270

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Tua Tagovailoa completed 17-of-22 attempts for 94 yards and a touchdown in the Dolphins' Week 16 win over the Raiders.

Tagovailoa was named the starter for Week 17 following the Dolphins' win but he wasn't under center to close out the game. Ryan Fitzpatrick took over for Tua in the final minutes of the game and doubled Miami's score seemingly instantly. Tagovailoa wasn't losing them the game for three quarters as much as he was doing nothing to help his team win. Despite completing 77 percent of his passes, he was unable to generate any momentum on offense. He had two completions that went for more than 10 yards and was unable to deliver any big plays downfield. Miami faces the Bills next week and will be competing with an offense that won't be easily beaten by a game-manager. Tagovailoa will need to play more aggressively while maintaining his accuracy if the Dolphins are to have any chance of toppling Josh Allen and the Bills. Tagovailoa is nothing more than a low-end QB2 to close out the season.

SOURCE: Adam Beasley on Twitter

Dec 26, 2020, 11:54 PM ET

 

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Andy Dufresne

Andy Dufresne 12,076

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Gailey wants his quarterbacks to manage the game early and then be more aggressive in the fourth quarter, with Tagovailoa better at the former and Fitzpatrick the latter.

See, I think Tua's reluctance to throw downfield is by design. I think he's instructed to just not turn the ball over, period.

The end of that last game is just like Flores & Co want it - if you need a more aggressive QB then play Fitz.

It works because each QB knows their role and doesn't prima donna it when they're not playing.

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=Smackdown=

=Smackdown= 729

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44 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

See, I think Tua's reluctance to throw downfield is by design. I think he's instructed to just not turn the ball over, period.

The end of that last game is just like Flores & Co want it - if you need a more aggressive QB then play Fitz.

It works because each QB knows their role and doesn't prima donna it when they're not playing.

100% agree

Game plan & speed of the game completely changed when they pulled Tua and put Fitz in.

Tua is given a very basic game plan. Also don’t understand why they don’t do no huddle more where Tua had excelled vs the Cardinals & Rams?

With Charmin soft Parker on the sidelines most games he also has very limited choices to throw to.

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SoBeDad

SoBeDad 2,291

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17 minutes ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick tested positive for COVID and is OUT Sunday for the Dolphins.

No Mariano Rivero. This is a good test for Tua. The weather outlook is 28 degrees with a chance of snow. The wind will be light.

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Truebluey

Truebluey 485

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32 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

No Mariano Rivero. This is a good test for Tua. The weather outlook is 28 degrees with a chance of snow. The wind will be light.

Fully agree. And great analogy!

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rockaction

rockaction 24,844

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, SoBeDad said:

No Mariano Rivero. This is a good test for Tua. The weather outlook is 28 degrees with a chance of snow. The wind will be light.

I know this is a football thread, but "Rivero"? You gotta be ####ting me.

;)

Edited by rockaction
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The Frankman

The Frankman 3,346

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Tua Tagovailoa completed 35-of-58 attempts for 361 yards a touchdown and three interceptions in the Dolphins' 56-26 Week 17 loss to the Bills.

A win would have put the Dolphins into the playoffs, but the entire team laid an egg in their most pivotal matchup of the season. It all was not Tagovailoa's fault, as numerous receivers dropped passes on crucial third downs and Chan Gailey refused to trust his quarterback and instead called receiver screen after receiver screen. It is fair to question if Tua was surrounded by a "winnable" cast to generate a fair evaluation - but it is a question the Dolphins must answer in a hurry, as they hold the Texans' top-5 draft pick. Will Tua's 1,814 passing yards plus 14 total touchdowns in nine games, plus multiple mid-game benchings, be enough to ward off the team's interest in another passer? It should be another interesting offseason in Miami that could shape the franchise's future.

- Rotoworld

 

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