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*** Official 2021 Dolphins Thread - Phins 1-0, Jets, Bills and Pats all 0-1...Say What !!


SwampDawg

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I’m prepared for anything. And I think I’m at peace with every scenario except moving up for Herbert.

 One of the positives of being a Dolphins fan is I’ve got decades of experience in lowering expectations. 

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8 minutes ago, Todem said:

Tua will be the pick. We got this. I came around and feel....roll the freaking dice. We need a homerun at QB. If he did not get hurt he would arguably be the #1 overall...not Joe Burrow. 

I agree we need to find that homerun QB. At some point you have to make the plunge. The injury concern is big but if not for that Tua would probably be in the running for the #1 pick. Is it worth it? I've come around to taking that risk too. Find out sooner rather than later if you've found that QB.

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3 minutes ago, Man In The Box said:

I think we trade the 5 and 39 for the 3 and take Tua. 

Detroit doesn't have much to lose moving down two spots and picking up more pick/picks. Unless Chase Young falls or they have a specific target, they're going to get one of two players for sure.

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1 minute ago, Rockchild said:

Detroit doesn't have much to lose moving down two spots and picking up more pick/picks. Unless Chase Young falls or they have a specific target, they're going to get one of two players for sure.

Yeah it makes a lot of sense for both teams. Which means it won’t happen lol. 

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Seems like a good day 1 to me.

 Tua goes without saying.

 OT is a work in progress but Only 20 years old there’s a lot to develop there.

 Really good nickel CB to match with Jones and Howard.

 And plenty of juice tomorrow.

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It was an interesting Draft, on the one hand it really was kinda lame compared to the excitement of Nashville last year, Goodell schtick wore thin quickly but I want to get to the picks and I'm sure many Miami fans are happy. I'm going to go as deep into this as I can in an immediate knee-jerk to watching this whole thing which i would never have done if we didn't have so many selections throughout the night. 

1.05 QB Tua Tagovailoa: It seemed like they had been linked to Tua since he won the National Title coming off the bench. It seems Owner Stephen Ross didn't keep it a secret. I think most were stunned Miami went 5-4 down the stretch and jeopardized their chances but when Tua became injured he started falling down the boards. I'm not going to debate this kid's merits, his stats and his record speaks for themselves. Do I have durability concerns? Of course I do and we are going to need a Don Strock or Earl Morrel, maybe that's Fitz as he moves along. 

Miami has to start moving fast, if Tua is what they say he is, then in 3 short years his salary will jump to a number that will inhibit us from making a lot of the moves we will be able to over the next 24 months so this notion he sits out a whole year and then comes on in 2021, that's fine but Miami's clock is running now and it's safe to assume that Trevor Lawrence won't be happening. This is the guy Miami has anointed as their franchise QB or future QB but likely 2021 at latest.  

I want Tua to succeed but I am not crying tears of joy tonight, far from it. I'm worried this historically bad franchise since the turn of the Century will mess this up because the kid isn't joining a really talented team the way say Jordan Love is going to the Packers even if he never touches the field for 3 years.  

-To be clear, the fact that Miami managed to see what Flores can do once he has talent by going 5-4 with total flaming garbage on the roster is a tribute to him. So far i see at least 3 new starters at OL, New starting RB, talented WR extended, Front Seven being retooled, Secondary completely overhauled and we will get to that in a couple more picks. In a way this is a story book tale and I'm fine watching everyone dance and howl at the moon tonight and go run to buy new jerseys but for me, I feel like this is a curse as much as it could be a blessing. 

"A" for me and I will say that part of me wanted to not allow myself to warm up to Tua back in Jan/Feb/March thinking Miami would have to trade up to get him from 5 to perhaps 3 and lose several of their picks but they played their hand as dealt and navigated beautifully. Hard to pick apart the selection in a time where it's encouraged to grab a QB early. 

 

1.18 OT-Austin Jackson: Dude had to give bone marrow to his sister as I understand it and had a down year, well of course he did. And prior to that he was one of the Top 2-3 in this draft class. Did you know he is only 20 years old and he has a year to develop just like Tua will and be ready to roll in 2021 after he takes some lumps this year, don't expect miracles. They didn't trade up to get him, they let the draft come to them for the most part. I won't talk forever about this pick but I think thye had to shore up their OL for Tua to have any kind of success. Now Jackson happens to be a Left Tackle which is highly valued in the NFL but Tua is Left Handed and so Miami will either push Jackson to RT which should actually be easier for him to transition to and in fact might be his spot to start in 2020. I like him and believe he will start at either Right or Left Tackle, Miami could still draft another in the 2nd or 3rd round but I would like them to address other spots which i will discuss. 

"A" I was all over the kid from Georgia and think he will do great for the Giants but considering where Miami gets AJ and also getting Tua at 5 and also beign able to maneuver at 26. 

-FTR, I did mention Jordan Love and Miami did not take Love, however they did trade back with Green Bay and they used the pick to take Love so we had the right spot for Love at 26 which I mentioned quite a while back as an option so Miami might have been able to do that but I give MIAMI a big fist bump for trading back a few spots and picking up a well needed 4th round pick. The Dolphins should be able to find another interior OL around there for depth or a possible RB2/3 so I like that move a lot for them. This trade will factor into my grade for them next. 

1.26 Traded to Green Bay for the 1.30 and a 4th Round pick. Miami will now have 136-141-153-154 those are 4th and 5th rounders that should fetch some much needed depth at a variety of spots. They also will have 39-56-70 in the 2nd and 3rd Rounds. 

1.30 CB-Noah Igbinoghene: At first glance you think he is nothing more than a 2nd-3rd round grade DB, could be one of any of the next 4-5 off the board, HOWEVER...did you know?! This guy has something like a 33.3% completion rate against him and runs a 4.48 if I have my stats correct. If that is true, Miami has got something raw they can develop to play as a PLAYMAKER at the SLOT, this guy was drafted because with Jones and Howard now at Corner both sides, QBs will go after the slot if they can and so Flores sets a trap and this is going to be one of the most ferocious and suffocating defenses when he is done putting it together, you can be sure of it.

I know there are people out there who are "Critics" or football pundit types with their in the minute Grades but I think this is better than folks think when you add in the trade for a guy they obviously would have taken at 26 if they had to. They grab another pick they can attach to a 4 year rookie deal so they can continue to beef up all areas of this team. This kid was pretty darn good at Auburn and is one of 14 SEC, sorry 15 SEC players taken in the 1st Round and Miami got two of them. These players compete at the highest level and you are going to see a guy like Ruggs or Jefferson once in a while. I like the upside and when you think of the many great New England DBs over the years, I like that Flores is making that a priority. 

"B" for me when you factor in the trade with room to move it up another half grade if he pans out quickly. This kid is good at Press Coverage and that is what Flores likes to do.

Tomorrow/Tonight I would like to see Miami take an Edge rusher like Matos or there are a couple others that would be nice value and also nice additions to their growing Front 7. I also like Swift and Higgins would be high on my list of Skill Position players I think are worth a grab. I like Biadasz from Wisconsin at Center but let him play RG this year. At OT they could use another, Peart from UConn had a terrific combine, fast and could be a real steal at say 56 if they can get him. 

At Safety if they go that way, how about Delpit from LSU, that guy can do some damage free lancing back there. 

That's the Word tonight in Miami, back to you all in the studio...what say you? 

Edited by Ministry of Pain
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6 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

It was an interesting Draft, on the one hand it really was kinda lame compared to the excitement of Nashville last year, Goodell schtick wore thin quickly but I want to get to the picks and I'm sure many Miami fans are happy. I'm going to go as deep into this as I can in an immediate knee-jerk to watching this whole thing which i would never have done if we didn't have so many selections throughout the night. 

1.05 QB Tua Tagovailoa: It seemed like they had been linked to Tua since he won the National Title coming off the bench. It seems Owner Stephen Ross didn't keep it a secret. I think most were stunned Miami went 5-4 down the stretch and jeopardized their chances but when Tua became injured he started falling down the boards. I'm not going to debate this kid's merits, his stats and his record speaks for themselves. Do I have durability concerns? Of course I do and we are going to need a Don Strock or Earl Morrel, maybe that's Fitz as he moves along. 

Miami has to start moving fast, if Tua is what they say he is, then in 3 short years his salary will jump to a number that will inhibit us from making a lot of the moves we will be able to over the next 24 months so this notion he sits out a whole year and then comes on in 2021, that's fine but Miami's clock is running now and it's safe to assume that Trevor Lawrence won't be happening. This is the guy Miami has anointed as their franchise QB or future QB but likely 2021 at latest.  

I want Tua to succeed but I am not crying tears of joy tonight, far from it. I'm worried this historically bad franchise since the turn of the Century will mess this up because the kid isn't joining a really talented team the way say Jordan Love is going to the Packers even if he never touches the field for 3 years.  

-To be clear, the fact that Miami managed to see what Flores can do once he has talent by going 5-4 with total flaming garbage on the roster is a tribute to him. So far i see at least 3 new starters at OL, New starting RB, talented WR extended, Front Seven being retooled, Secondary completely overhauled and we will get to that in a couple more picks. In a way this is a story book tale and I'm fine watching everyone dance and howl at the moon tonight and go run to buy new jerseys but for me, I feel like this is a curse as much as it could be a blessing. 

"A" for me and I will say that part of me wanted to not allow myself to warm up to Tua back in Jan/Feb/March thinking Miami would have to trade up to get him from 5 to perhaps 3 and lose several of their picks but they played their hand as dealt and navigated beautifully. Hard to pick apart the selection in a time where it's encouraged to grab a QB early. 

 

1.18 OT-Austin Jackson: Dude had to give bone marrow to his sister as I understand it and had a down year, well of course he did. And prior to that he was one of the Top 2-3 in this draft class. Did you know he is only 20 years old and he has a year to develop just like Tua will and be ready to roll in 2021 after he takes some lumps this year, don't expect miracles. They didn't trade up to get him, they let the draft come to them for the most part. I won't talk forever about this pick but I think thye had to shore up their OL for Tua to have any kind of success. Now Jackson happens to be a Left Tackle which is highly valued in the NFL but Tua is Left Handed and so Miami will either push Jackson to RT which should actually be easier for him to transition to and in fact might be his spot to start in 2020. I like him and believe he will start at either Right or Left Tackle, Miami could still draft another in the 2nd or 3rd round but I would like them to address other spots which i will discuss. 

"A" I was all over the kid from Georgia and think he will do great for the Giants but considering where Miami gets AJ and also getting Tua at 5 and also beign able to maneuver at 26. 

-FTR, I did mention Jordan Love and Miami did not take Love, however they did trade back with Green Bay and they used the pick to take Love so we had the right spot for Love at 26 which I mentioned quite a while back as an option so Miami might have been able to do that but I give MIAMI a big fist bump for trading back a few spots and picking up a well needed 4th round pick. The Dolphins should be able to find another interior OL around there for depth or a possible RB2/3 so I like that move a lot for them. This trade will factor into my grade for them next. 

1.26 Traded to Green Bay for the 1.30 and a 4th Round pick. Miami will now have 136-141-153-154 those are 4th and 5th rounders that should fetch some much needed depth at a variety of spots. They also will have 39-56-70 in the 2nd and 3rd Rounds. 

1.30 CB-Noah Ignbinoghene: At first glance you think he is nothing more than a 2nd-3rd round grade DB, could be one of any of the next 4-5 off the board, HOWEVER...did you know?! This guy has something like a 33.3% completion rate against him and runs a 4.48 if I have my stats correct. If that is true, Miami has got something raw they can develop to play as a PLAYMAKER at the SLOT, this guy was drafted because with Jones and Howard now at Corner both sides, QBs will go after the slot if they can and so Flores sets a trap and this is going to be one of the most ferocious and suffocating defenses when he is done putting it together, you can be sure of it.

I know there are people out there who are "Critics" or football pundit types with there in the minute Grades but I think this is better than folks think when you add in the trade for a guy they obviously would have taken at 26 if they had to. They grab another pick they can attach to a 4 year rookie deal so they can continue to beef up all areas of this team. This kid was pretty darn good at Auburn and is one of 14 SEC, sorry 15 SEC players taken in the 1st Round and Miami got two of them. These players compete at the highest level and you are going to see a guy like Ruggs or Jefferson once in a while. I like the upside and when you think of the many great New England DBs over the years, I like that Flores is making that a priority. 

"B" for me when you factor in the trade with room to move it up another half grade if he pans out quickly. This kid is good at Press Coverage and that is what Flores likes to do.

Tomorrow/Tonight I would like to see Miami take an Edge rusher like Matos or there are a couple others that would be nice value and also nice additions to their growing Front 7. I also like Swift and Higgins would be high on my list of Skill Position players I think are worth a grab. I like Biadasz from Wisconsin at Center but let him play RG this year. At OT they could use another, Peart from UConn had a terrific combine, fast and could be a real steal at say 56 if they can get him. 

At Safety if they go that way, how about Delpit from LSU, that guy can do some damage free lancing back there. 

That's the Word tonight in Miami, back to you all in the studio...what say you? 

I think we’re in complete agreement.

 The CB pick was definitely an initial “WTF” with McKinney and Swift sitting out there, but the more I’ve read, the more this guy slides in perfectly as nickel to Jones and Howard. And in today’s NFL, you need plenty of CBs to keep up.

 I’m a PA based Dolphins fan, so I’d love to see Matos come to them at 39. I think there is a lot of value still on the board at top of 2nd.

i do expect to see more wheeling and dealing now. Would surprise me if they don’t use some of these later picks to move up here and there. Is it possible to have too many rookies? Draft all picks and we’ll see.

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15 minutes ago, Trey said:

I think we’re in complete agreement.

 The CB pick was definitely an initial “WTF” with McKinney and Swift sitting out there, but the more I’ve read, the more this guy slides in perfectly as nickel to Jones and Howard. And in today’s NFL, you need plenty of CBs to keep up.

 I’m a PA based Dolphins fan, so I’d love to see Matos come to them at 39. I think there is a lot of value still on the board at top of 2nd.

i do expect to see more wheeling and dealing now. Would surprise me if they don’t use some of these later picks to move up here and there. Is it possible to have too many rookies? Draft all picks and we’ll see.

I'm just calling it like I see it and quite frankly with Andrew Thomas off the board at No 5, it just was too easy to take Tua and especially not having to trade up. 

39-56-70 with 136-141-153-154-173 behind those picks...

Two 2nd, Third, Two 4th, THREE 5th rounders now...I like your idea and it's possible but Miami needs every warm rookie body they can get and also there will be undrafted guys Miami brings in. 

QB-Fitz/Tua/Rosen 

RB-They need another RB to go with Jordan Howard, something a little more nimble. 

WR-Parker, Hurns, Preston, Albert Wilson, I.Ford...this is still a work in progress. 

TE-Gesicki is their starter right now, could use another prospect along the way. 

OL-Jackson, Flowers, Karras, Dieter, Davis for now and I expect at least 2-3 more names along the OL in this draft. 

Miami likely to draft a RB-WR-OL-OL, at least 4 more picks along the offense easily.  

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I am not a Devante Parker believer. He could collapse easily IMO. I pray he turned the corner but I am very skeptical based on 4 years of pure ####. Preston is coming off an ACL. We need a kid like Higgins to shore up the receiver corp’s. Also we do need a RB. Swift would be a very nice prize. He could form a nice 1-2 punch with Howard. We need skill positions in that 2nd round. I really wanted Jefferson with that 3rd 1st rounder. And I am sure CeDe was quad up before Jerry Jones....acted like Jerry Jones taking the flash even though their OL is pure ####. I like the CB we did take and get it. But we could have gotten him in round 2. But Flores must have coveted him big time to trade down and pass on a kid like Jefferson.

Edited by Todem
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3 minutes ago, Todem said:

I am not a Devante Parker believer. He could collapse easily IMO. I pray he turned the corner but I am very skeptical based on 4 years of pure ####. Preston is coming off an ACL. We need a kid like Higgins to shore up the receiver corp’s. Also we do need a RB. Swift would be a very nice prize. He could form a nice 1-2 punch with Howard. We need skill positions in that 2nd round.

Tee Higgins would be a welcome 2nd Round WR that could develop for a year like many of these other selections. I'm not expecting a huge impact from their rookies just yet. But I like the long term make up of the team so far. Wanted Ruiz but he went early. 

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3 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Could Miami pull a page from Dallas in 1989 and Washington in 2012 and draft Two Quarterbacks? There are several other arms with upside and Flores watched BB take guys and trade them for good picks while learning behind Brady. Skins might have done it twice actually. 

I was a fan of 2 and 5 for Rosen last year. Oh how wrong I was.

thats the only thing that might impede that sort of pick. You already have a vet and a super cheap backup with Tua. 
 

But perhaps in those round 5 picks, Flores doubles down?

Exciting day to be a Dolphins fan. Looking forward to tonight. 

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Secondary

LCB-Xavien Howard

RCB-Byron Jones

Slot-Igbinoghene (R)

Tankersly and McCain are your depth at the moment. McCain will not play Safety again. 

21 year old Eric Rowe is your Free Roaming Safety at the moment, would be nice to find him a buddy to pair with at Strong Safety. 

 

The Trio up top at Corner are likely your starting Trio for the next 3-4 years if things go right. 

Edited by Ministry of Pain
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Something missing in the talk of the CB miami took at 30 is this:  Howard and Jones' contracts both have outs after 2021, so even though they are "big money contracts" the dolphins can punt if they need the cap space or either of them start to fade.  Its what winning franchises do.  Pick guys that can start doing one thing and evolve into the "next guy up" if injuries or play begins to suffer.

I cannot see us keeping the rest of these picks.  I think either a) they have a plan for each "segment" of the draft or b) they plan to let the board keep coming to them until #70 and then use all their back end picks to move up when they see someone they want.

Especially this year when there is not as much info on players, either the phins are going for the "scattershot approach" to the back of the draft (where a lot of these guys end up not being on the roster), or the 60 pick hole from 70-130 is going to be handled with all they have on the back end.

In any case, this has been the most "fun" draft to watch as a phins fan in years.

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12 minutes ago, Gatorman said:

Something missing in the talk of the CB miami took at 30 is this:  Howard and Jones' contracts both have outs after 2021, so even though they are "big money contracts" the dolphins can punt if they need the cap space or either of them start to fade.  Its what winning franchises do.  Pick guys that can start doing one thing and evolve into the "next guy up" if injuries or play begins to suffer.

I cannot see us keeping the rest of these picks.  I think either a) they have a plan for each "segment" of the draft or b) they plan to let the board keep coming to them until #70 and then use all their back end picks to move up when they see someone they want.

Especially this year when there is not as much info on players, either the phins are going for the "scattershot approach" to the back of the draft (where a lot of these guys end up not being on the roster), or the 60 pick hole from 70-130 is going to be handled with all they have on the back end.

In any case, this has been the most "fun" draft to watch as a phins fan in years.

I have been thinking about the Auburn Rookie since last night, was really a head scratcher at first but I see it a couple different ways. Howard did have an off field issue and maybe that won't happen again but they are paying $27M in 2020, $30M in 2021, $32M 2022 and that is the run of Tua's rookie deal mostly, yeah they will have to break that up at some point but we just got it so I want to see it first before I think 3 years from now...2021 would be next year, you sure that's not early 2022? 

I think there is an outside chance this rookie DB has a chance to compete for Safety. He tackles very well and they might have other guys they can rotate at Nickel, he has some versatility and you nailed it on Miami taking what they know vs a mystery. Apparently they were at Auburn's pro Day and fell in love with the kid. It wasn't a surprise to many he was taken. In the 2020 NFL, big hitters are not what's most desired since they draw flags especially late in games. Better to have a speedster that can break up the pass and not try to dislodge it at point of contact.

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8 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

I have been thinking about the Auburn Rookie since last night, was really a head scratcher at first but I see it a couple different ways. Howard did have an off field issue and maybe that won't happen again but they are paying $27M in 2020, $30M in 2021, $32M 2022 and that is the run of Tua's rookie deal mostly, yeah they will have to break that up at some point but we just got it so I want to see it first before I think 3 years from now...2021 would be next year, you sure that's not early 2022? 

I think there is an outside chance this rookie DB has a chance to compete for Safety. He tackles very well and they might have other guys they can rotate at Nickel, he has some versatility and you nailed it on Miami taking what they know vs a mystery. Apparently they were at Auburn's pro Day and fell in love with the kid. It wasn't a surprise to many he was taken. In the 2020 NFL, big hitters are not what's most desired since they draw flags especially late in games. Better to have a speedster that can break up the pass and not try to dislodge it at point of contact.

I'm not sure the language, but assuming X's contract extension started this year then I think both can be "opted out" of (Jones and X) in 2 years.  If X's extension was last year then phins have an out at the end of this year with him and Jones the following.  For all practical purposes the phins are using their "cheap QB money" in the  defensive backfield for now.  Adding another "cheap DB" gives them flexibility (and lets face it, corners get hurt so having a bunch of them makes sense).  The fact his kid was also a returner in college and played WR means he's another of those "New England Type" jack of all trades.

Miami Basically has 6 cornerbacks in their defensive backfield.  Sure, Rowe and McCain are being called Safeties, but they are corners.  You run motion on them and everyone but X and Jones can move around and cover man without giving up that it is man (or basically the counter to how the pats play their offense)

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2 minutes ago, Gatorman said:

I'm not sure the language, but assuming X's contract extension started this year then I think both can be "opted out" of (Jones and X) in 2 years.  If X's extension was last year then phins have an out at the end of this year with him and Jones the following.  For all practical purposes the phins are using their "cheap QB money" in the  defensive backfield for now.  Adding another "cheap DB" gives them flexibility (and lets face it, corners get hurt so having a bunch of them makes sense).  The fact his kid was also a returner in college and played WR means he's another of those "New England Type" jack of all trades.

Miami Basically has 6 cornerbacks in their defensive backfield.  Sure, Rowe and McCain are being called Safeties, but they are corners.  You run motion on them and everyone but X and Jones can move around and cover man without giving up that it is man (or basically the counter to how the pats play their offense)

And, of course, Jones started out as a safety too.  So there is a lot of flexibility in the back-end, which is exactly what Flores wanted (and Minkah didn't).

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30 minutes ago, Gatorman said:

I cannot see us keeping the rest of these picks.  I think either a) they have a plan for each "segment" of the draft or b) they plan to let the board keep coming to them until #70 and then use all their back end picks to move up when they see someone they want.

There is a big gap between pick 70 and 136 they may want to move into at some point, you're right.  I also wonder if they will move aggressively for someone early today.

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Priorities tonight and specific names I would like to see called by the Phins tonight. 

Edge/Pass Rush: Miami has several pillars now along the DL for a 3-4 defense and that doesn't always equate to lots of sack totals. Wilkins-Godchaux-Lawson is your likely starting trio but I think they will rotate a ot of guys in like Charlton-Ogbah-Harris and it's possible one or two of them doesn't make the roster which is actually a good thing. What Miami needs to put into this Front Seven is a Pass Rusher they can count on, they don't have a lot of that right now. 

Gross-Matos: Really don't expect him to last much longer. I also believe if Miami thought this was a good fit they might already have taken him. 

Marlon Davidson: 300+ lbs and we might have to replace Godchaux, not sure if he is worth a high price 2nd contract. I think he might be a decent 3-4 DE and also could flip to a 3-technique DT on short yardage situations. He is also from Auburn and they were there for the Pro Day as I mentioned and can you have enough SEC players on your team?

AJ Epenesa: Another 275+ lb guy that could be a good fit depending on the situation in the game. 11.5 sacks, 4 forced fumbles, had a bad game or two but he has upside and I would like to see him work with this coaching staff. 

 

Next area I would like to see them get a starter would be at Safety and there are plenty available in this 2nd Round. I would prefer to dodge Alabama at this position but every player is different. 

Delpit and Winfield would be on my short list after McKinney who I would like to avoid but he is really good and could start right away. 

 

Skill Positions

We talked about Swift and Higgins but I will also say that with RBs walking the street like Freeman and others, maybe Miami should just push it off another round or two. Jordan Howard should be able to shoulder 240+ carries, we're not hunting for a starter this year in the draft although if they find the right one it makes sense. 

Tee Higgins is interesting but there are still other WRs that rate pretty high and Miami has the 2021 Draft to look for skill players after they lay the foundation. 

 

OLine is definitely an area they could use another player or two to come into camp and compete. Biadasz would be a welcome addition inside. 

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  • SwampDawg changed the title to *** Official 2021 Dolphins Thread - Phins 1-0, Jets, Bills and Pats all 0-1...Say What !!

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