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***Official 2020 Election General*** (2 Viewers)

tri-man 47 said:
... and Trump is golfing again?  We need to begin the leadership transition.  Our country is averaging about 125,000 new Covid cases and close to 1,200 deaths every day.  Rome ...Nero...
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Stop it.  What is Biden going to do? Force shutdown of the entire country and ban travel?  Mandate mask usage nationwide?

The first option will face immense backlash and would divide this country even further and the second is already in place for about every town with more than 10,000 people.

Presidential leadership isn't some magical cure, and we need to quit acting like it is.

Local government has the means and authority to deal with the virus best and should shoulder the lions share of the responsibility.

Trump should have done better, but this isn't all on him and Biden would have likely only done slightly better had he been President in 2020 already.

 
2Squirrels1Nut said:
My lady and I went to a wildlife area yesterday. Backed my car up to a lake and we sat on the back, drank wine, listened to the radio, and talked. At dusk I dribbled off those Bobby Brooks and we did what animals do. 

Woke up this morning slightly hungover but joy in my heart.  It has been so long since I've woken up and my first thoughts weren't "God, I wonder what he is going to do today".  

Today I'm going to drink some beers, watch football and my kids rake leaves. 

Peace and love all. Peace and love. 
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You could have done all of that any point and time over the past four years, but you chose not to.

The fact that people's day to day emotional well being is beholden to the President is absolutely baffling to me.

 
tri-man 47 said:
... and Trump is golfing again?  We need to begin the leadership transition.  Our country is averaging about 125,000 new Covid cases and close to 1,200 deaths every day.  Rome ...Nero...
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Desert_Power said:
There is a very real possibility that nothing gets done regarding covid or stimulus until January.
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Personally I think at some in the next week Trump concedes but then goes scorched earth til January 21st, #### the people, it’s about him now and jacking up as much as possible. I know, it was always about him but just wait, it will get worse. Man is a very sore loser.

Oh and he pardons a record number of people.

 
tri-man 47 said:
... and Trump is golfing again?  We need to begin the leadership transition.  Our country is averaging about 125,000 new Covid cases and close to 1,200 deaths every day.  Rome ...Nero...
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Based on his current reactions and his 50+ year public record Trump golfing as much as possible is the best thing can/will do for this country.  Keeping him off Twitter and press conferences is EXACTLY what we need. 

 
Jayrod said:
Stop it.  What is Biden going to do? Force shutdown of the entire country and ban travel?  Mandate mask usage nationwide?

The first option will face immense backlash and would divide this country even further and the second is already in place for about every town with more than 10,000 people.

Presidential leadership isn't some magical cure, and we need to quit acting like it is.

Local government has the means and authority to deal with the virus best and should shoulder the lions share of the responsibility.

Trump should have done better, but this isn't all on him and Biden would have likely only done slightly better had he been President in 2020 already.
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Trump has railed against governors who take action to stop the spread of COVID. even if all Biden does is let givenors alone, he will make a huge difference over the current situation. It is also about getting the correct message to the public. As longer as we are led by somebody who continues to tell the public COVID is no big deal and it will be gone soon, we will not make any progress.

 
Jayrod said:
Stop it.  What is Biden going to do? Force shutdown of the entire country and ban travel?  Mandate mask usage nationwide?

The first option will face immense backlash and would divide this country even further and the second is already in place for about every town with more than 10,000 people.

Presidential leadership isn't some magical cure, and we need to quit acting like it is.

Local government has the means and authority to deal with the virus best and should shoulder the lions share of the responsibility.

Trump should have done better, but this isn't all on him and Biden would have likely only done slightly better had he been President in 2020 already.
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The bolded is not reflected by the success of every other country on this planet.

If I would be permitted by the moderators to tread towards personal commentary, I would respectfully suggest that you are allowing emotion and partisanship to guide your opinions here. I don't think it's a coincidence that you are advocating for an approach that just happens to be the approach advocated by the leader of the political party to which you are more closely aligned, despite the fact that this approach is scorned by the vast majority of scientists, doctors, and governments in both the country and the world.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
I get what you're saying but for  most of 2020 all we've heard is Trump guys don't care about killing people because of large gatherings etc....   When it's to celebrate Biden defeating Trump here come all the excuses about why it's not the same.  Certainly those celebrating without social distancing don't care about killing people exactly the same amount as Trump guys, right?
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Trump crowds have largely been anti-mask. Trump made fun of that ingraham lady last week for having a mask on at one of his rallies and he always did a shtick about being anti-mask that led to cheers. Most of the people at the BLM protests and the White House thing yesterday had masks on. You’re just being openly disingenuous if you don’t see the difference.  

 
Jayrod said:
You could have done all of that any point and time over the past four years, but you chose not to.

The fact that people's day to day emotional well being is beholden to the President is absolutely baffling to me.
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Some people are more empaths or feelers. It’s cool you are not, but different strokes and all that. I wish I didn’t worry as much as I do (about anything not just National politics) but that’s who I am. I have kids and worry much more about things outside of myself now than I did in my 20s. Your ever take a Meyers-Briggs? 
 
You’ve repeatedly said now you don’t get it, but just know there are a lot of folks out there that do. Super high EQ, it’s a curse. 😄 Thankfully my IQ is low

 
Capella said:
I mean one is celebrating a monumental event in recent American history and the other is a dumb football game. I wouldn’t be at either but one is a whole lot more understandable. 
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It is apples to apples in the background of a pandemic.

People criticize Trump for holding super spreader events, and now we're going to gather by the thousands to celebrate the exit of the guy that holds super spreader events.

I don't think we should condemn one type of gathering while praising another.  

We need to stop the dichotomy of what events are ok and which aren't.  We want to stop COVID?  Stop the mass gatherings.  

 
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Joe Summer said:
The bolded is not reflected by the success of every other country on this planet.

If I would be permitted by the moderators to tread towards personal commentary, I would respectfully suggest that you are allowing emotion and partisanship to guide your opinions here. I don't think it's a coincidence that you are advocating for an approach that just happens to be the approach advocated by the leader of the political party to which you are more closely aligned, despite the fact that this approach is scorned by the vast majority of scientists, doctors, and governments in both the country and the world.
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First of all I voted for Biden.

Second of all, the virus is rampant everywhere in the world and I'd imagine scientists and doctors would be in favor of a "both and" system not "either or" as in Federal and local need to work together, but the way the US is built and run, local is the primary means of population control.

 
Republicans who have publicly acknowledged Joe Biden as President-elect:

Mitt Romney
Lisa Murkowski (AK senator)
Fred Upton (MI congressman)
Paul Mitchell (MI congressman)
Will Hurd (TX congressman)
Larry Hogan (MD governor)
Phil Scott (VT governor)
Jeb Bush (please clap)
John Kasich (former OH governor)

 
jm192 said:
It is apples to apples in the background of a pandemic.

Trump's an idiot that holds super spreader events, and now we're going to gather by the thousands to celebrate the exit of the idiot that holds super spreader events.

I don't think we should condemn one type of gathering while praising another.  
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Fwiw, I follow a lot of lefties (and righties) on Twitter. And many, many of them are grousing and worrying about the close gathered celebrations and COVID. There is some mention that they are glad it appears most to all are wearing masks, but there is criticism

 
Sea Duck said:
Republicans who have publicly acknowledged Joe Biden as President-elect:

Mitt Romney
Lisa Murkowski (AK senator)
Fred Upton (MI congressman)
Paul Mitchell (MI congressman)
Will Hurd (TX congressman)
Larry Hogan (MD governor)
Phil Scott (VT governor)
Jeb Bush (please clap)
John Kasich (former OH governor)
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George W Bush has as well

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dallasnews.com/news/elections/2020/11/08/george-w-bush-congratulates-joe-biden-on-winning-white-house-sending-message-to-gop-about-elections-outcome/%3foutputType=amp

 
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jm192 said:
It is apples to apples in the background of a pandemic.

Trump's an idiot that holds super spreader events, and now we're going to gather by the thousands to celebrate the exit of the idiot that holds super spreader events.

I don't think we should condemn one type of gathering while praising another.  
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Uhhh I have been pretty clear saying I wouldn’t be at either. But if you can’t see the difference between a monumental day in American history where people largely have masks on and a campaign rally or a football game where they don’t, I really don’t think we have to carry the conversation further. 

 
Morton Muffley said:
Joe Summer said:
Georgia just slipped in a few thousand ballots a few minutes ago. Biden's lead up to 10,195 now.

By my calculation, there should be just a few hundred ballots remaining, not including overseas ballots (which were due yesterday).
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More god news: GA just posted another tranche though I fear the conspiracy theorists may take issue as 100% of this tranche went to Biden...100%!!!

Biden's lead is now 10,196

I'll let you all do the math :)
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That has been happening all week. They'll post an updated vote count, then a few minutes later they'll add EXACTLY ONE VOTE to Trump, Biden, or both. Not sure what to make of it.

 
Capella said:
Uhhh I have been pretty clear saying I wouldn’t be at either. But if you can’t see the difference between a monumental day in American history where people largely have masks on and a campaign rally or a football game where they don’t, I really don’t think we have to carry the conversation further. 
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Why do we need to dissect or compare the two?

We shouldn't have thousands gathering, period.  

I don't see the point of "Well, let's discuss the differences between the two."  That seems to just distract from the point.

But your tone of "if you're not smart enough to see the difference we don't need to converse" is greatly appreciated.

 
jm192 said:
Why do we need to dissect or compare the two?

We shouldn't have thousands gathering, period.  

I don't see the point of "Well, let's discuss the differences between the two."  That seems to just distract from the point.

But your tone of "if you're not smart enough to see the difference we don't need to converse" is greatly appreciated.
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I never said you aren’t smart enough. Some people just want to see what they want to see, regardless of intelligence. 

 
Capella said:
Trump crowds have largely been anti-mask. Trump made fun of that ingraham lady last week for having a mask on at one of his rallies and he always did a shtick about being anti-mask that led to cheers. Most of the people at the BLM protests and the White House thing yesterday had masks on. You’re just being openly disingenuous if you don’t see the difference.  
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:lmao:   Of course

 
Sea Duck said:
Republicans who have publicly acknowledged Joe Biden as President-elect:

Mitt Romney
Lisa Murkowski (AK senator)
Fred Upton (MI congressman)
Paul Mitchell (MI congressman)
Will Hurd (TX congressman)
Larry Hogan (MD governor)
Phil Scott (VT governor)
Jeb Bush (please clap)
John Kasich (former OH governor)
Click to expand...
@MassGovernor Charlie Baker as well:

“I congratulate President-elect Biden and Vice President-elect Harris on their victory. 

This has been a long and divisive campaign, but now it is critical for us all to focus on the very real and immediate challenges facing this nation.”

 
Capella said:
I never said you aren’t smart enough. Some people just want to see what they want to see, regardless of intelligence. 
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The point of the conversation seemed to be someone wrote praising the Biden gatherings while blasting the football gatherings.

Who cares how much more monumental this is?  We shouldn't give a pass for mass gatherings "because this is a bigger deal"

That's what I see.  

 
One thing that put a smile on my face yesterday with all the celebration....not only in our country, but around the world was all the times Trump was beating his chest about his massive rallies and how Joe could not draw a crowd.

I think all that was put to bed yesterday/last night. 

That was the mother of all rallies. 

How did you like them apples Donald?

 
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jm192 said:
Why do we need to dissect or compare the two?

We shouldn't have thousands gathering, period.  

I don't see the point of "Well, let's discuss the differences between the two."  That seems to just distract from the point.

But your tone of "if you're not smart enough to see the difference we don't need to converse" is greatly appreciated.
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The people I see upset are the folks who are "I can't do the gathering or thing I want to do or that is important to my business but when the other side wants to gather and do their thing, it's now ok because their side has decided it was important." I totally see their point. It's a hypocrisy thing. 

 
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lazyike said:
I see according Wikipedia that Haley is or was a member of the new conservative social website Parler where they are allowed to share debunked conspiracy theories without any fact checking. If she still belongs count me out. I think you should include Sen Sasse to the list of those to keep an eye on.
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Trump supporters will never vote for Sasse. 

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
I get what you're saying but for  most of 2020 all we've heard is Trump guys don't care about killing people because of large gatherings etc....   When it's to celebrate Biden defeating Trump here come all the excuses about why it's not the same.  Certainly those celebrating without social distancing don't care about killing people exactly the same amount as Trump guys, right?
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Well the celebrations in the streets aren’t organized by the campaign itself so that’s a big difference no?

 
I'll add this:

If Trump won and Trump supporters were gathering in the streets--I suspect a lot of people that are defending the importance of Biden's win would be a lot less ok with it.  

 
jm192 said:
I don't think COVID identifies who organized the event. Even with masks, it's a lot harder to social distance in these venues.
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I agree. All I’m saying is the president organized events with thousands of people at them so yes that is different than ad hoc gatherings in the streets. They both have the same possibility of causing a spike in cases but in one of those two scenarios the leader of the country disregarded his own administration’s recommendations.

 
mr roboto said:
I agree. All I’m saying is the president organized events with thousands of people at them so yes that is different than ad hoc gatherings in the streets. They both have the same possibility of causing a spike in cases but in one of those two scenarios the leader of the country disregarded his own administration’s recommendations.
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I don't think the point is who organized an event. Hypocrisy is the point.  It's the folks saying "I can't do the gathering or thing I want to do or that is important to my business but when the other side wants to gather and do their thing, it's now ok because their side has decided it was important." 

 
Very interesting stat from Meet the Press this morning: 

In 1984 Ronald Reagan received 57% of the white vote. It was enough to win him a landslide, 49 out of 50 states. 
In 2020 Donald Trump received 57% of the white vote, and lost the popular vote and the election. 
 

 
Joe Bryant said:
I don't think the point is who organized an event. Hypocrisy is the point.  It's the folks saying "I can't do the gathering or thing I want to do or that is important to my business but when the other side wants to gather and do their thing, it's now ok because their side has decided it was important." 
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I know. I’m not arguing that it’s not hypocritical to defend one reason and criticize the other. 
 

Maybe I responded to a point that wasn’t being made so I’ll give it up.

 
mr roboto said:
I agree. All I’m saying is the president organized events with thousands of people at them so yes that is different than ad hoc gatherings in the streets. They both have the same possibility of causing a spike in cases but in one of those two scenarios the leader of the country disregarded his own administration’s recommendations.
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Your point is right. 

But I feel like we keep taking these tangents--and it's not just you.  

But the point is people pick and choose what's acceptable from a COVID stand point.  Trump events, church, sports=bad.  I suspect if Trump won and Trump supporters gathered in large numbers--people would be irate.

But since Biden won and it's historic, we should give it a pass.  

And while I appreciate most people have masks on, there's virtually no social distancing.  

So we can focus on "the difference in the significance of the events," who organized it, but at the end of the day--the underlying issue is that we can't seem to agree all mass gatherings are bad--just the ones that certain people disapprove of.

 
Joe Bryant said:
I don't think the point is who organized an event. Hypocrisy is the point.  It's the folks saying "I can't do the gathering or thing I want to do or that is important to my business but when the other side wants to gather and do their thing, it's now ok because their side has decided it was important." 
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I get your argument, the hypocrisy argument. I could quibble with you but I get it. My problem is the next step: @Ramblin Wreck, who pointed out the discrepancy, also wrote “this is why so many people think Covid is a joke.” 
 

Thats the point I have trouble with. You want to point out hypocrisy, fine. But using the hypocrisy to make a overall judgment about Covid, that’s awful IMO. And just plain wrong. 

 
timschochet said:
I get your argument, the hypocrisy argument. I could quibble with you but I get it. My problem is the next step: @Ramblin Wreck, who pointed out the discrepancy, also wrote “this is why so many people think Covid is a joke.” 
 

Thats the point I have trouble with. You want to point out hypocrisy, fine. But using the hypocrisy to make a overall judgment about Covid, that’s awful IMO. And just plain wrong. 
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I don't see much of that. I see way more of the people saying, "Why do they get to do that everyone seems to think it's cool. CNN didn't even try to hide the pictures. Yet when "my side" wants to do something similar, we can't?"

It's a 100% legit point and I totally get their frustration. 

 
timschochet said:
Very interesting stat from Meet the Press this morning: 

In 1984 Ronald Reagan received 57% of the white vote. It was enough to win him a landslide, 49 out of 50 states. 
In 2020 Donald Trump received 57% of the white vote, and lost the popular vote and the election. 
 
Click to expand...
Our republic has changed demographically (of course and increased a lot) but turnout was historic. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
I don't think the point is who organized an event. Hypocrisy is the point.  It's the folks saying "I can't do the gathering or thing I want to do or that is important to my business but when the other side wants to gather and do their thing, it's now ok because their side has decided it was important." 
Click to expand...
at least from my vantage point most people reacted the same.  I saw people out in the big cities and thought it was super risky.  Most people i talk to felt the same.  In my town people didnt do that they drove around and honked.  But im sure there are hypocritical folks out there.  Im not certain thats the majority though. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
I don't see much of that. I see way more of the people saying, "Why do they get to do that everyone seems to think it's cool. CNN didn't even try to hide the pictures. Yet when "my side" wants to do something similar, we can't?"

It's a 100% legit point and I totally get their frustration. 
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I don't follow the hypocrisy.  It was a historic night and in in the celebration a small number didn't wear masks.  And the Biden group encouraged masks.

The other side of the coin is routine rallies where mask wearing is not encouraged by the guy leading the covid response.

 
Uwe Blab said:
Some people are more empaths or feelers. It’s cool you are not, but different strokes and all that. I wish I didn’t worry as much as I do (about anything not just National politics) but that’s who I am. I have kids and worry much more about things outside of myself now than I did in my 20s. Your ever take a Meyers-Briggs? 
 
You’ve repeatedly said now you don’t get it, but just know there are a lot of folks out there that do. Super high EQ, it’s a curse. 😄 Thankfully my IQ is low
Click to expand...
I guess these posts are my very poorly executed attempts at helping people.

I am hoping people will start to realize the silliness of allowing who the President is and what he says effect them so much because it is something you cannot control and worrying about it helps no one.

 
Jayrod said:
I guess these posts are my very poorly executed attempts at helping people.

I am hoping people will start to realize the silliness of allowing who the President is and what he says effect them so much because it is something you cannot control and worrying about it helps no one.
Click to expand...
I think there a lot of things in life like that which we allow ourselves to respond to. Different things for different people. Others are not wired that way, if it's something they can't control, it doesn't effect them that much. To call one way or the other silly probably isn't the most productive way to phrase your take on it. And know that, even though you operate that way, others don't, and never will, regardless of what you think they should do. I see you've posted about this several times in this thread the last day or so. Seems like a thing you can't control that you're somewhat invested in.

 
Joe Bryant said:
I don't see much of that. I see way more of the people saying, "Why do they get to do that everyone seems to think it's cool. CNN didn't even try to hide the pictures. Yet when "my side" wants to do something similar, we can't?"

It's a 100% legit point and I totally get their frustration. 
Click to expand...
I'm concerned that one 'side' would even entertain the idea that the media should consider censoring pictures of people celebrating a presidential election.

 
Joe Summer said:
I'm concerned that one 'side' would even entertain the idea that the media should consider censoring pictures of people celebrating a presidential election.
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Nobody is entertaining censorship that I see. They're feeling frustrated when it's their business or the thing they want to do it's a problem. But when CNN decides it's a ok, folks don't think it's a problem and they put it out front and center. :shrug:  

 
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Gr00vus said:
I think there a lot of things in life like that which we allow ourselves to respond to. Different things for different people. Others are not wired that way, if it's something they can't control, it doesn't effect them that much. To call one way or the other silly probably isn't the most productive way to phrase your take on it. And know that, even though you operate that way, others don't, and never will, regardless of what you think they should do. I see you've posted about this several times in this thread the last day or so. Seems like a thing you can't control that you're somewhat invested in.
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Good point.

Honestly, I think I'm more frustrated with my Trump-fan friends in real life who are losing their minds right now.  Dealing with people I know is a lot more difficult than random people anonymously online.

I'm honestly super glad people are getting comfort from this election, I just believe needing that relief and continuing that level of angst over elected officials is a recipe for failure (because it may happen again).

 
Joe Bryant said:
Nobody is entertaining censorship. They're feeling frustrated when it's their business or the thing they want to do it's a problem. But when CNN decides it's a ok, folks don't think it's a problem and they put it out front and center. :shrug:  
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The commentators on CNN spent a lot of time saying people should be wearing masks, and that the lack of social distancing was a bad idea pretty much every 5 minutes yesterday.

Beyond that I'm not sure how CNN decides whether it's "a ok" or not.

 
Jayrod said:
Good point.

Honestly, I think I'm more frustrated with my Trump-fan friends in real life who are losing their minds right now.  Dealing with people I know is a lot more difficult than random people anonymously online.

I'm honestly super glad people are getting comfort from this election, I just believe needing that relief and continuing that level of angst over elected officials is a recipe for failure (because it may happen again).
Click to expand...
I agree for the most part. I wish I was much better at not letting things beyond my control influence my mental state so much. And it's not just things like this, but other stuff like how my favorite teams are doing, or some less than super things coworkers might do, etc. I work on it, but I'm not always successful.

 
Jayrod said:
Good point.

Honestly, I think I'm more frustrated with my Trump-fan friends in real life who are losing their minds right now.  Dealing with people I know is a lot more difficult than random people anonymously online.

I'm honestly super glad people are getting comfort from this election, I just believe needing that relief and continuing that level of angst over elected officials is a recipe for failure (because it may happen again).
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I have never seen anything close to this level of angst about an elected official (Donald Trump) in my entire life. And there is 4 years of soundbites and actions that give reason for this. 

Hence the turnout, hence the result, hence the relief and joy that we have spoken and are preserving our democracy. 

Yes it was that serious. And I am not an alarmist type in the least bit, nor a nervous nelly. But read my post about the teaching moment I was able to use the Presidents insane tirade the night after the election (hell both at 2:30AM and 6:30 PM) on Wednesday. For me personally, that encompassed how serious this election was and why we as a country needed to move on....from “that”. 

 
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Gr00vus said:
The commentators on CNN spent a lot of time saying people should be wearing masks, and that the lack of social distancing was a bad idea pretty much every 5 minutes yesterday.

Beyond that I'm not sure how CNN decides whether it's "a ok" or not.
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They seemed to be light on the criticism here.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/07/politics/gallery/america-reacts-to-new-president-2020/index.html

It took several days of vote counting, but we finally have a projected winner in the 2020 presidential race.

Former Vice President Joe Biden will be the 46th president, CNN projects, denying Donald Trump a second term in office. A victory in Biden's native Pennsylvania put the Democrat over the 270 electoral votes needed to secure the presidency.

Across the country, Biden supporters poured into the streets to celebrate his win.
Click to expand...


But you're right, CNN doesn't get to decide I should have said just people in general celebrating. All good. 

The fact the seems to be such a thing is remarkable. The inability / refusal to see the hypocrisy on it is not unexpected but incredibly discouraging. All good. I'll bow out of this one and we'll just have to disagree. 

 
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