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Healing And Moving Forward - Thoughts?


Joe Bryant

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4 hours ago, Mookie said:

So did Custer.  Sometimes, leadership involves more than just making a futile stand.  I fully support impeachment, but there's no way Trump is convicted in the Senate.  So why keep digging deeper trenches?

I honestly believe we need to see how folks vote.  I do not believe everyone will vote on party lines.  To any R who votes yes on impeachment, I give them a microphone.  I work with them and make them successful within their party.  I build them up and empower them.

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3 hours ago, Insein said:

And this is where it all started. The current animosity and pettiness from both sides can all be traced back to Clinton's impeachment. Sure politics has always been dirty, backstabbing and greedy but this event took it to the people. Ever since then, all politicians have wielded the public conscience like a weapon against their opponents. Projecting their own faults and guilts upon their opponents to deflect any type of blame from themselves. 25 years building to this point where we can have corporations taking out a sitting president and their market competitors in one calculated move and have the people cheer them on while doing so completely unaware of everything they just lost. 

I disagree.  Im glad Clinton got impeached for lying to Congress.  Serve right that slimeball.

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1 hour ago, BladeRunner said:

they were arrested but NOT charged.  They were subsequently let go by the DA's of the respective cities.

Arrests to arrests comparisons is only the start.  The follow up with charges and jail time never happened with BLM.  But you can bet it will with the hooligans from Wednesday.

I would like to read about this, do you have a link?  I havnt been able to find one.

Gonna call some :bs: on this:  https://time.com/5880229/arrests-black-lives-matter-protests-impact/

Edited by JAA
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1 hour ago, Murph said:

Twenty plus years and a disbarment later and folks still can't admit Clinton was guilty. I'm sure this round of healing and unity will go better though.

Name one person here who says he wasnt guilty.

Please stop the gaslighting

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

I think there may be some misunderstanding of what healing and unity imply. It doesn’t mean that we’re supposed to give in, surrender to the other side. It means that we recognize that as Americans we have a commonality of interests and that, where we disagree with each other we do so as friends, not enemies, and we treat each other with dignity, empathy and respect. Why should that be so difficult? 

Empathy I can see. But TBH it’s really difficult to respect people who’ve drank the Trumpian Kool-aid, of which a part is antagonizing the other “side”.

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53 minutes ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Of course he was guilty of the conduct. That doesn’t respond to the point that was made. “The Left” was charged with trivializing impeachment. In other threads, they’ve been charged with being ou to get Trump from the beginning. 
 

But Clinton faced an independent counsel that was first tasked with investigating a land deal, then with investigating the White House travel office, then with a suicide, and then, finally, with statements made about a sexual relationship he made in a deposition for a case that had nothing to do with the sexual relationship he lied about. 
 

Some Trump supporters have argued that both cases represented overreach. Heck, to hear Kavanaugh and Starr tell it, THEY think they had too much power. 
 

But it’s just absolute nonsense to argue that the Clinton impeachment was somehow predicated on more serious grounds than the Trump impeachment.

And then there are those of us who supported Clinton's impeachment long before :metoo: and who also opposed Trump and supported his impeachment too.  Those takes aged really well.  

This isn't really that hard.  Just have principles and stick with them.

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53 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I think you're really wrong. I actually agree with @fatguyinalittlecoat

I'd recommend the book I'm reading to just about anybody - Divided We Fall: America's Secession Threat and How to Restore Our Nation by David French. It's an easy read but really says a lot. I recommend it highly.

We have always been a nation of divided interests. But it's only been recently that we've taken it to such a deep personal level. He talks about how there were deep, religious differences that needed overcoming upon the formation of the USA. What we argue about is different today, but the depth of conviction isn't much different.

I'd argue that it's because we've made the federal government so important - where we make "one size fits all" laws that apply where they don't have any business to.

One example that French cites is the idea of sanctuary cities. That should be California's business. But since California wants to make it everybody's business, then people push back on it nationally and they ask - at this iteration - for the Trump administration to get involved. Don't go down this path too specifically. It's just an example. 

I think if we returned to more of a federalist form of government where you live like you live and I'll live like I live that a lot of pressure would be relieved. 

We definitely need more states rights.  This is really all the south wants.

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3 minutes ago, JAA said:

Name one person here who says he wasnt guilty.

Please stop the gaslighting

Clinton's impeachment was extremely unpopular at the time.  It's a lot more popular now -- it's very difficult for somebody to come out in public and say openly that sexually harassing underlings and lying about it under oath doesn't warrant removal from office.  But that was a widespread position back in the late 1990s.

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1 minute ago, IvanKaramazov said:
6 minutes ago, JAA said:

Name one person here who says he wasnt guilty.

Please stop the gaslighting

Clinton's impeachment was extremely unpopular at the time.  It's a lot more popular now -- it's very difficult for somebody to come out in public and say openly that sexually harassing underlings and lying about it under oath doesn't warrant removal from office.  But that was a widespread position back in the late 1990s.

Yes

However, his post said "Twenty plus years and a disbarment later and folks still can't admit Clinton was guilty. I'm sure this round of healing and unity will go better though.".  So he is stating 20 years later.  Who 20 years later thinks he wasnt guilty?

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1 minute ago, Murph said:

I'm not seeing a whole of he's guilty posts that aren't accompanied by a lengthy explanation about why its OK. Or something else was worse. Or there were problems with the investigation. Etc.

It's human nature. My sides faults are minor, or well-intentioned, or should be forgiven. The other sides faults are evidence of their inherent evil.

And sometimes that's even true! But makes the the prospects for healing and moving on a hard road.

I'll tell you what makes moving on a hard road........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

CONTINUING TO BRING SOMETHING UP THAT HAPPENED (checks calendar)..........TWENTY TWO YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111

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3 minutes ago, Murph said:
13 minutes ago, JAA said:

Name one person here who says he wasnt guilty.

Please stop the gaslighting

I'm not seeing a whole of he's guilty posts that aren't accompanied by a lengthy explanation about why its OK. Or something else was worse. Or there were problems with the investigation. Etc.

It's human nature. My sides faults are minor, or well-intentioned, or should be forgiven. The other sides faults are evidence of their inherent evil.

And sometimes that's even true! But makes the the prospects for healing and moving on a hard road.

Im still waiting on a single poster here on FBG who thinks he isn't guilty.  Thanks

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You know what, I don't want to re-hash the 90s either. I'm just having a ####ty day and am extraordinarily pessimistic about our future. I'll delete my posts and show myself out if it will make everyone feel better.

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1 minute ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

I’ll cop to it. I don’t think Clinton should have been impeached. It’s not the point I was responding to, but it’s still true. 
 

I say this conceding that he committed a crime and that he engaged in slimy behavior (although not what I would call sexual harassment, at least with regard to Lewinsky). 

Jerk store called 😛

@Murph - you are off the hook

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2 minutes ago, Murph said:

You know what, I don't want to re-hash the 90s either. I'm just having a ####ty day and am extraordinarily pessimistic about our future. I'll delete my posts and show myself out if it will make everyone feel better.

I was just trying to make a funny.  Levity helps sometimes in healing even if the guy making the jokes isn't nearly as funny as he thinks he is*

 

 

 

 

 

*according to his wife.

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7 minutes ago, General Malaise said:

I was just trying to make a funny.  Levity helps sometimes in healing even if the guy making the jokes isn't nearly as funny as he thinks he is*

 

 

 

 

 

*according to his wife.

No offense taken. Never stop bringing the jokes.

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1 hour ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Do you think Camp Auschwitz guy would appreciate a Harry & David basket?

No way he knows what a good pear is.  Send him some of Chefs Chocolate Salty Balls.  

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36 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Clinton's impeachment was extremely unpopular at the time.  It's a lot more popular now -- it's very difficult for somebody to come out in public and say openly that sexually harassing underlings and lying about it under oath doesn't warrant removal from office.  But that was a widespread position back in the late 1990s.

I was just a kid then (hey look at me!) and wsn't nearly learned enough or cared enough to comprehend both procedurally what was going on and what the pulse of public sentiment was at the time. My memory is that the public seemed both confused and unimpressed by the impeachment action because there was a misunderstanding as to whether he was being impeached for getting a BJ or for in fact lying. I recall further sentiment (which could just admittedly be the unlearned ramblings of my parents' friends or my coaches or whatever) that Clinton arguably didn't lie either (i.e. did sexual relations include oral sex?) and that impeaching him over this technicality was nitpicky. 

 

Frankly, I take no issue with a president being impeached for lying under oath and agree that getting a BJ at work from a underling further complicates is bad - although I suppose on that note I don't recall there being a ton of outcry because the impression was that she consented. But, as I type this out, I'm surprised at how little I understand what all happened. 

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34 minutes ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

I’ll cop to it. I don’t think Clinton should have been impeached. It’s not the point I was responding to, but it’s still true. 
 

I say this conceding that he committed a crime and that he engaged in slimy behavior (although not what I would call sexual harassment, at least with regard to Lewinsky). 

Simply because the gravity did rise to the level of "high crimes and misdemeanors"? 

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Not sure if this has been discussed already, but is it possible more rapid, concrete rejection of Trump will facilitate “healing”?

Some people are taking it for granted that anything other than running out the clock on his presidency will escalate tension, but I think that only holds true for his most extreme supporters. Those guys are gonna be pissed regardless IMO, and their incendiary, delusional rhetoric and actions need to be marginalized ASAP.

For the rank-and-file R voter, who may have voted purely on party lines, extracting Trump’s venom will lend more credibility/respect for the Republican cause. And it will expedite not lumping all Rs into a basket of deplorables. This assumes they don’t nominate someone worse the next time around, of course.

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11 minutes ago, Zow said:

Simply because the gravity did rise to the level of "high crimes and misdemeanors"? 

That’s one way if putting it. I don’t think it involved a misuse of his office. There’s a whole impeachment thread where I go into excruciatingly boring detail into what I consider to be impeachable offenses. 

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1 minute ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

That’s one way if putting it. I don’t think it involved a misuse of his office. There’s a whole impeachment thread where I go into excruciatingly boring detail into what I consider to be impeachable offenses. 

Gotcha. I'll have to check it out. 

Do you have any comments on my post where I present my ignorant memory of the whole ordeal? I genuinely concede I don't know as much about it as I probably should and I trust your take if my memory is errant or incomplete. 

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4 hours ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:
4 hours ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

For example, more of this would both heal and help the country move forward:

Emma Kinery @EmmaKinery

Mark Levin, Ben Shapiro and Dan Bongino’s employer, Cumulus Media, has told its on-air personalities to stop suggesting that the election was stolen from President Trump — or face termination “immediately”

Great news. 

OMG to the number of normal people I know, am related to, worked with, and went to church with who are sharing conspiracy theories like it’s secret intel they’ve decoded and not some delusional info popping up on the internet by Timmy with no profile picture.

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17 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

Not sure if this has been discussed already, but is it possible more rapid, concrete rejection of Trump will facilitate “healing”?

Some people are taking it for granted that anything other than running out the clock on his presidency will escalate tension, but I think that only holds true for his most extreme supporters. Those guys are gonna be pissed regardless IMO, and their incendiary, delusional rhetoric and actions need to be marginalized ASAP.

For the rank-and-file R voter, who may have voted purely on party lines, extracting Trump’s venom will lend more credibility/respect for the Republican cause. And it will expedite not lumping all Rs into a basket of deplorables. This assumes they don’t nominate someone worse the next time around, of course.

It actually might simplify any 2024 primary process but at this point so many variables on it I can't begin to gauge it.

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5 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Calling for "healing" like Biden did immediately following the election is just naturally going to fall on deaf ears in the context of the last four years.

It may indeed fall on deaf ears.

Some people are so committed to their side/tribe/stance that it's become (cognizantly or not) a part of their very identity, and asking them to earnestly listen and engage rationally rather than just looking for any opening to call out the other side seems to be more difficult than ever.

That shouldn't stop the attempt to find unity and healing, regardless of how we think the attempt might be perceived or misconstrued.

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56 minutes ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

That’s one way if putting it. I don’t think it involved a misuse of his office. There’s a whole impeachment thread where I go into excruciatingly boring detail into what I consider to be impeachable offenses. 

When someone lies under oath / testifying to Congress you need to send a message.

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5 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:
3 hours ago, Zow said:

Like people storming the capitol and temporarily taking it over?

Or trying to burn down federal buildings, cities and looting?

I asked you for a link earlier about people being arrested but not being charged.  Have you been able to backup your allegations?

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2 minutes ago, JAA said:

I asked you for a link earlier about people being arrested but not being charged.  Have you been able to backup your allegations?

JAA - I know you're smarter than this.

It was all over the news and print.  Those asking for links are purposefully being obtuse because you KNOW that's exactly what happened.

I will provide links when I get a chance, though, even though I know you're playing dumb on purpose.

Edited by BladeRunner
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8 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:
9 minutes ago, JAA said:

I asked you for a link earlier about people being arrested but not being charged.  Have you been able to backup your allegations?

JAA - I know you're smarter than this.

It was all over the news and print.  Those asking for links are purposefully being obtuse because you KNOW that's exactly what happened.

I will provide links when I get a chance, though, even though I know you're playing dumb on purpose.

Did you check my response?  I did search and I found your data to be wrong.  Take a look at my post, I did my due diligence.

How about this - show me the google search you used and what page the link is on.  I'm ready to be wrong, ill eat the crow.

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20 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:
56 minutes ago, GROOT said:

Where can i find tweets from president Trump for the last 2 weeks? I would like to read them.

https://www.thetrumparchive.com/

Yea - this is a pretty bad one

Quote

These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!

 

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2 minutes ago, JAA said:
23 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:
59 minutes ago, GROOT said:

Where can i find tweets from president Trump for the last 2 weeks? I would like to read them.

https://www.thetrumparchive.com/

Yea - this is a pretty bad one

Quote

These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!

 

Quote

Get smart Republicans. FIGHT!

Im sure POTUS meant, like, virtual fighting, right?

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My soul is heavy today, because...well....I give up.  I find myself more and more reluctant to connect with other people on anything other than a superficial level.  The risk is too great now.  Any thought that falls outside  the ever-narrowing window of tolerable dissent is grounds for swift and severe retribution in the form of my livelihood, my health, and the well-being of my family.  It’s not worth the risk anymore to share what my feelings are or why I feel them.  My neighbors are just going to know me as the guy who smiles and waves, the guy who helps move heavy things, fixes broken things, and the guy who pets their dog.  But they won’t know ME.  They won’t know my heart..not really.  I’ll be emotionally withdrawn. And that makes me sad.   I don’t know when I’ll be able to lower my shields. Smile and wave boys....smile and wave.

Edited by Hoh
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4 minutes ago, Hoh said:

My soul is heavy today, because...well....I give up.  I find myself more and more reluctant to connect with other people on anything other than a superficial level.  The risk is too great now.  Any thought that falls outside  the ever-narrowing window of tolerable dissent is grounds for swift and severe retribution in the form of my livelihood, my health, and the well-being of my family.  It’s not worth the risk anymore to share what my feelings are or why I feel them.  My neighbors are just going to know me as the guy who smiles and waves, the guy who helps move heavy things, fixes broken things, and the guy who pets their dog.  But they won’t know ME.  They won’t know my heart..not really.  I’ll be emotionally withdrawn. And that makes me sad.   I don’t know when I’ll be able to lower my shields. Smile and wave boys....smile and wave.

Im sorry to hear this.  Hopefully it is something that passes with some time.  People are good.  Frustrating at times, but we all want the same thing in the end we just dont travel the same road to get there.

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4 hours ago, Hoh said:

My soul is heavy today, because...well....I give up.  I find myself more and more reluctant to connect with other people on anything other than a superficial level.  The risk is too great now.  Any thought that falls outside  the ever-narrowing window of tolerable dissent is grounds for swift and severe retribution in the form of my livelihood, my health, and the well-being of my family.  It’s not worth the risk anymore to share what my feelings are or why I feel them.  My neighbors are just going to know me as the guy who smiles and waves, the guy who helps move heavy things, fixes broken things, and the guy who pets their dog.  But they won’t know ME.  They won’t know my heart..not really.  I’ll be emotionally withdrawn. And that makes me sad.   I don’t know when I’ll be able to lower my shields. Smile and wave boys....smile and wave.

Hang in there, Hoh.  Sorry you're going through this right now but hopefully if you keep doing the things you suggest (smile and wave, pet the dogs, etc) the good feelings will return back to you for being a nice guy.

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5 hours ago, Hoh said:

My soul is heavy today, because...well....I give up.  I find myself more and more reluctant to connect with other people on anything other than a superficial level.  The risk is too great now.  Any thought that falls outside  the ever-narrowing window of tolerable dissent is grounds for swift and severe retribution in the form of my livelihood, my health, and the well-being of my family.  It’s not worth the risk anymore to share what my feelings are or why I feel them.  My neighbors are just going to know me as the guy who smiles and waves, the guy who helps move heavy things, fixes broken things, and the guy who pets their dog.  But they won’t know ME.  They won’t know my heart..not really.  I’ll be emotionally withdrawn. And that makes me sad.   I don’t know when I’ll be able to lower my shields. Smile and wave boys....smile and wave.

Hang in there @Hoh  I think it's interesting as I have no idea if you're a Trump supporter or a Biden supporter. I know people in both camps who feel exactly like you. It's usually an issue of being outnumbered. And of being lumped and generalized into a group that becomes demonized. And I think that sucks. 

I've said often here I feel fortunate, as among my close friends, I'm by far in the minority as a Democrat voter. But the upside is actually the opposite of your situation with your neighbors as because these people DO know me, and I do know them, we accept each other. Granted, it's easier to do this with close friends than neighbors you may not know as deeply. 

Hang in there. I'd suggest too that maybe a season of pulling back might be good for you. Or anyone. When it gets too much, sometimes a break is entirely appropriate. I'd encourage you though to make it a break and not a new way of life.

Hang in there. 

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5 hours ago, Hoh said:

My soul is heavy today, because...well....I give up.  I find myself more and more reluctant to connect with other people on anything other than a superficial level.  The risk is too great now.  Any thought that falls outside  the ever-narrowing window of tolerable dissent is grounds for swift and severe retribution in the form of my livelihood, my health, and the well-being of my family.  It’s not worth the risk anymore to share what my feelings are or why I feel them.  My neighbors are just going to know me as the guy who smiles and waves, the guy who helps move heavy things, fixes broken things, and the guy who pets their dog.  But they won’t know ME.  They won’t know my heart..not really.  I’ll be emotionally withdrawn. And that makes me sad.   I don’t know when I’ll be able to lower my shields. Smile and wave boys....smile and wave.

I've felt and have acted this way since 9/11, so I understand.  Hang in there.

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21 hours ago, JAA said:

I asked you for a link earlier about people being arrested but not being charged.  Have you been able to backup your allegations?

If you are discussing the summer riots, here is a link to the Portland ones - 

https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/493642-396291-91-of-portland-protest-arrests-not-being-prosecuted

 

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

Hang in there @Hoh  I think it's interesting as I have no idea if you're a Trump supporter or a Biden supporter. I know people in both camps who feel exactly like you. It's usually an issue of being outnumbered. And of being lumped and generalized into a group that becomes demonized. And I think that sucks. 

I've said often here I feel fortunate, as among my close friends, I'm by far in the minority as a Democrat voter. But the upside is actually the opposite of your situation with your neighbors as because these people DO know me, and I do know them, we accept each other. Granted, it's easier to do this with close friends than neighbors you may not know as deeply. 

Hang in there. I'd suggest too that maybe a season of pulling back might be good for you. Or anyone. When it gets too much, sometimes a break is entirely appropriate. I'd encourage you though to make it a break and not a new way of life.

Hang in there. 

There are substantially more groups of people than pro-Trump and pro-Biden. The source of one of our biggest problems is this binary mindset. 

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